CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

Mr. Satch:
This post will hopefully give some insight into who I am, and dispel some inaccuracies.
First of all, I have never taught at an elementary school (your post of 3/5/13). In that same post you state that I brought my pet alligator to that 6th grade class. Never had an alligator, nor would I ever want one. I’ve always had large dogs- 2 German Sheperds, 1 Black Lab, and 1 American Domestic (a mutt). And yet you yourself start a rumor about me that is wrong. So let me repeat that- YOU WERE WRONG!! So why were you pretty sure about your information? Where did you find it? You don’t cite your source- you just state it. Are you ready to apologize to me for…BEING SO WRONG?? Now do you understand why a person can become so defensive and pissed off when such crap is being spread over the internet? So no, I’m not going to be polite and ask the posters to be more thoughtful about what they say, because they’ve hurt my feelings and that makes me feel sad (insert one of those frowny faces here). And yet, many responded that I was being so arrogant. I wasn’t being arrogant, I was being factual. When somebody says something that doesn’t make sense- i.e. that a 6’ person could have their skeleton shrink down to 5’6”- that’s stupid. Sorry, no other way to say it. Yet nobody bothered to call that person out for saying something so idiotic. But some responded- “I hope there were DNA tests done to determine if it was Roger?” Really? Is this a joke? Look up the concept of groupthink. And the last thing any of you should do is judge how a person may be allowed to respond to accusations made against them. When you have been disparaged on the internet for a heinous crime, and it’s being done by anonymous posters who don’t have the “huevos rancheros” to post with their true names, and just throw out rumor and innuendo without regard for anything factual, you let me know how it feels. And how many times do you read posts that get earlier posts incorrect; not only do they not realize it, those who read these incorrect posts then continue the inaccuracy. But actually Satchmo, you don’t have to apologize. I used the caps just to mess with you. I have found your posts to be some of the more thoughtful and analytical ones that have been written. I appreciate that. But for the majority of the posters- the old adage should be applied- just keep the monkeys in the cage. And from this point on, when I use the term ‘you’ in this post, I’m not referring to you Satch, I’m using the collective ‘you’ in regards to the other posters.
Many of the posters say I’m arrogant with a sense of intellectual superiority. Sorry, but I’ll use another old adage- no brag, just fact. So, a little about myself-
I fell in love with history in the 4th grade. By 10th grade, I knew I wanted to teach history. I was so consumed with the subject, I tried to learn as much as I could. When I graduated from high school, I took the ACT instead of the SAT, because the ACT had a history section at the time. I scored a 26/30 on the history section. Not the highest score level, but close. Got my BA in history, then took another year to become a credentialed teacher. Decided to continue on for an MA degree; I took the Graduate Record Exam for US History. This time I scored in the top 10% of the nation. Got my MA in 1 year and was selected the Outstanding Graduate Student in the History Dept. So, do I know my field? Yes, very well. Was I trained how to investigate and use analytical techniques to reach logical conclusions. Yes, very well. I realized I didn’t want to be a one-trick pony and just be focused on history and political science (my minor field) as most social science teachers are. I knew I could offer more as a complete Social Science teacher, so I continued with post-graduate studies, taking courses in sociology, geography, and anthropology. One of my sociology professors offered to sponsor me for a doctoral candidacy. I almost accepted, but was offered my first teaching job at the same time, and that was always my goal- so I gave up the possibility of getting a doctorate, and became a teacher. While in college, I would occasionally participate in psychology experiments, because you would get paid anywhere from $5-$10. At a time when the minimum wage was $1.60/hr, this was easy money. One of the things I participated in was taking an IQ test so the grad psychology students could practice on giving and scoring it. It was supervised by their professor to ensure its validity. The participants were later told their score, I’ll just say I did very well. So am I arrogant? No, but I know my abilities. If I wanted to be arrogant and engage in braggadocio, I would run as a presidential candidate in the Republican Party- it’s a joke people- get a sense of humor.. Oh, just so you know, I first registered to vote in 1972, and I registered as an independent when very few people made that choice. I have never registered as a member/supporter of any political party, and over the years I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, or Libertarians, no other parties. My vote depended on who those parties nominated.
One sleuthie stated that I had an uneventful career. Now where did that analysis come from? I was the main social science teacher in Cedaredge. The other 2 social science teachers were also 2 of the administrators. One taught 1 class, the other taught 4 classes; I taught 6 classes from 9th-12th. At the end of the year, the students had to take the State’s year-end tests. Our department’s results for each year exceeded the previous year’s test scores- for the 5 years I was there, our scores always improved. Couldn’t say that about the other 3 departments- English, Math, and Science, their scores resembled a roller coaster- up one year, down the next. Do I think I may have had something to do with the department’s success. Yes. Here in California, I eventually became the AP US History teacher, and taught it for 15 years. US History was the hardest AP test at the time in the nation, with only 50-55% of the students taking it passing it nationally. My first year, 47% of my students passed, and that was the best result ever scored at the high school up to that point. When I eventually stepped down, for the last 2 years my students’ pass rate was 90%. Oh, and I also taught for 10 years at a local community college as a part-time instructor. I was selected as their very first instructor of the year. Now am I bragging? No, I’m just stating fact. Bragging is when you have a need to keep telling people over and over again about your supposed/actual accomplishments so you can feel better about yourself and have others be impressed with you. I really don’t care if I impress you or not, that’s not my intent, nor my concern. I know my achievements, as do the students who benefitted from having me as their teacher at both the high school and college levels. I don’t need your approval. But if you are going to make statements about me, or my career, that are wrong and/or possibly disparaging, I’ll call you on it- and I have no compunction for not being polite about it, or politically correct. Just get the facts correct. And if you don’t have any information that’s verifiable, don’t spread falsehoods because you “think” you know, or “well, I heard/read this, so it must be true”.
OK, in my next post we’ll turn to looking at and analyzing Roger’s case. Bring a notepad
 
Mr. Satch:
This post will hopefully give some insight into who I am, and dispel some inaccuracies.
First of all, I have never taught at an elementary school (your post of 3/5/13). In that same post you state that I brought my pet alligator to that 6th grade class. Never had an alligator, nor would I ever want one. I’ve always had large dogs- 2 German Sheperds, 1 Black Lab, and 1 American Domestic (a mutt). And yet you yourself start a rumor about me that is wrong. So let me repeat that- YOU WERE WRONG!! So why were you pretty sure about your information? Where did you find it? You don’t cite your source- you just state it. Are you ready to apologize to me for…BEING SO WRONG?? Now do you understand why a person can become so defensive and pissed off when such crap is being spread over the internet? So no, I’m not going to be polite and ask the posters to be more thoughtful about what they say, because they’ve hurt my feelings and that makes me feel sad (insert one of those frowny faces here). And yet, many responded that I was being so arrogant. I wasn’t being arrogant, I was being factual. When somebody says something that doesn’t make sense- i.e. that a 6’ person could have their skeleton shrink down to 5’6”- that’s stupid. Sorry, no other way to say it. Yet nobody bothered to call that person out for saying something so idiotic. But some responded- “I hope there were DNA tests done to determine if it was Roger?” Really? Is this a joke? Look up the concept of groupthink. And the last thing any of you should do is judge how a person may be allowed to respond to accusations made against them. When you have been disparaged on the internet for a heinous crime, and it’s being done by anonymous posters who don’t have the “huevos rancheros” to post with their true names, and just throw out rumor and innuendo without regard for anything factual, you let me know how it feels. And how many times do you read posts that get earlier posts incorrect; not only do they not realize it, those who read these incorrect posts then continue the inaccuracy. But actually Satchmo, you don’t have to apologize. I used the caps just to mess with you. I have found your posts to be some of the more thoughtful and analytical ones that have been written. I appreciate that. But for the majority of the posters- the old adage should be applied- just keep the monkeys in the cage. And from this point on, when I use the term ‘you’ in this post, I’m not referring to you Satch, I’m using the collective ‘you’ in regards to the other posters.
Many of the posters say I’m arrogant with a sense of intellectual superiority. Sorry, but I’ll use another old adage- no brag, just fact. So, a little about myself-
I fell in love with history in the 4th grade. By 10th grade, I knew I wanted to teach history. I was so consumed with the subject, I tried to learn as much as I could. When I graduated from high school, I took the ACT instead of the SAT, because the ACT had a history section at the time. I scored a 26/30 on the history section. Not the highest score level, but close. Got my BA in history, then took another year to become a credentialed teacher. Decided to continue on for an MA degree; I took the Graduate Record Exam for US History. This time I scored in the top 10% of the nation. Got my MA in 1 year and was selected the Outstanding Graduate Student in the History Dept. So, do I know my field? Yes, very well. Was I trained how to investigate and use analytical techniques to reach logical conclusions. Yes, very well. I realized I didn’t want to be a one-trick pony and just be focused on history and political science (my minor field) as most social science teachers are. I knew I could offer more as a complete Social Science teacher, so I continued with post-graduate studies, taking courses in sociology, geography, and anthropology. One of my sociology professors offered to sponsor me for a doctoral candidacy. I almost accepted, but was offered my first teaching job at the same time, and that was always my goal- so I gave up the possibility of getting a doctorate, and became a teacher. While in college, I would occasionally participate in psychology experiments, because you would get paid anywhere from $5-$10. At a time when the minimum wage was $1.60/hr, this was easy money. One of the things I participated in was taking an IQ test so the grad psychology students could practice on giving and scoring it. It was supervised by their professor to ensure its validity. The participants were later told their score, I’ll just say I did very well. So am I arrogant? No, but I know my abilities. If I wanted to be arrogant and engage in braggadocio, I would run as a presidential candidate in the Republican Party- it’s a joke people- get a sense of humor.. Oh, just so you know, I first registered to vote in 1972, and I registered as an independent when very few people made that choice. I have never registered as a member/supporter of any political party, and over the years I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, or Libertarians, no other parties. My vote depended on who those parties nominated.
One sleuthie stated that I had an uneventful career. Now where did that analysis come from? I was the main social science teacher in Cedaredge. The other 2 social science teachers were also 2 of the administrators. One taught 1 class, the other taught 4 classes; I taught 6 classes from 9th-12th. At the end of the year, the students had to take the State’s year-end tests. Our department’s results for each year exceeded the previous year’s test scores- for the 5 years I was there, our scores always improved. Couldn’t say that about the other 3 departments- English, Math, and Science, their scores resembled a roller coaster- up one year, down the next. Do I think I may have had something to do with the department’s success. Yes. Here in California, I eventually became the AP US History teacher, and taught it for 15 years. US History was the hardest AP test at the time in the nation, with only 50-55% of the students taking it passing it nationally. My first year, 47% of my students passed, and that was the best result ever scored at the high school up to that point. When I eventually stepped down, for the last 2 years my students’ pass rate was 90%. Oh, and I also taught for 10 years at a local community college as a part-time instructor. I was selected as their very first instructor of the year. Now am I bragging? No, I’m just stating fact. Bragging is when you have a need to keep telling people over and over again about your supposed/actual accomplishments so you can feel better about yourself and have others be impressed with you. I really don’t care if I impress you or not, that’s not my intent, nor my concern. I know my achievements, as do the students who benefitted from having me as their teacher at both the high school and college levels. I don’t need your approval. But if you are going to make statements about me, or my career, that are wrong and/or possibly disparaging, I’ll call you on it- and I have no compunction for not being polite about it, or politically correct. Just get the facts correct. And if you don’t have any information that’s verifiable, don’t spread falsehoods because you “think” you know, or “well, I heard/read this, so it must be true”.
OK, in my next post we’ll turn to looking at and analyzing Roger’s case. Bring a notepad

Thank you Mr. Pash,

I appreciate the clarification very much. From what I remember some years ago, the post about the alligator I had read online came from some other web search. Obviously, it must have been a different Mr. Pash. I want to apologize for any misleading or inaccurate information posted by me. It is unfortunate that speculation, often in small town communities, such as Cedaredge, Colorado, and especially the Internet has a way of becoming fact.

Obviously, I cannot speak for all the other websleuths here, but I think it takes great courage and dedication to accomplish what you have done throughout your career. Very impressive! I cannot even begin to contemplate how much the rumors and accusations that you must have endured through the years must have caused great stress and emotional pain.

Thank you for being here for us to help separate the fiction from the facts. Hopefully the truth will come out in this case, and some closure can come about for Roger, his family, and hopefully the rumors about you somehow involved with Roger's disappearance can be put to rest. You have given us new information and insight that we did not have before. This will help us all understand Roger's case better.

Regards,

Satch
 
Mr. Pash,

I have read over this entire link (both sections) over 500 posts, as well as the other related internet articles, websites, etc. I have still unclear how you became the target of all this interest?

I did read you were questioned by the police back then... as I am sure were Roger's other teachers, friends, family, locker partners, etc.
So I see nothing of great interest in that.

It was posted here (I believe) that you were not a favorite of many in the town... well you seem more of a liberal bent and I would imagine that a small town like Cedaredge would be more to the right, politically.

I never understood the claim that you showed up at the family's home and claimed their son was suicidal, which you have explained in your previous posts.

So, how did you get the spotlight in this instance? Perhaps you don't know yourself, or I have missed some item of interest.

Thank you for your patience in explaining this (probably not for the first time)

Respectfully,

M Smith
Thank you Mr. Pash,

I appreciate the clarification very much. From what I remember some years ago, the post about the alligator I had read online came from some other web search. Obviously, it must have been a different Mr. Pash. I want to apologize for any misleading or inaccurate information posted by me. It is unfortunate that speculation, often in small town communities, such as Cedaredge, Colorado, and especially the Internet has a way of becoming fact.

Obviously, I cannot speak for all the other websleuths here, but I think it takes great courage and dedication to accomplish what you have done throughout your career. Very impressive! I cannot even begin to contemplate how much the rumors and accusations that you must have endured through the years must have caused great stress and emotional pain.

Thank you for being here for us to help separate the fiction from the facts. Hopefully the truth will come out in this case, and some closure can come about for Roger, his family, and hopefully the rumors about you somehow involved with Roger's disappearance can be put to rest. You have given us new information and insight that we did not have before. This will help us all understand Roger's case better.

Regards,

Satch
 
Mr. Satch:
First of all, we need a little information about Cedaredge- both the high school and the community. It will help put things into context. I used to ask newly-hired teachers if they had received their 1951 calendar when they crossed over the county line. Younger members of the staff would smile, even chuckle. But the older staff members, who had been there for years, would frown and mutter under their breath. The high school had about 230 students, of which about 98% were White. There were about 13 full-time teachers and 3 administrators (2 had some classroom assignments). When I showed up the first day (1979) for teachers meetings and classroom prep, I had an interesting revelation- 3 of us were new, and each of us had beards. Reaction? One teacher asked the principal when it had been decided that it was ok to hire unprofessional people. At first I thought it was meant as a joke, but it was actually a serious question. There had never been a male teacher with a beard in the school’s entire history (uh-oh, as one of the great poets of my youth said, “The Times They Are A-Changin’”). Over the course of my 5 years there, there were 2 biracial students (1- Black/White, 1 White/Japanese), 4 Hispanics, and 2 Italian-Americans (I include these 2 because of experiences). What concerned me was the attitude of many of the students toward these students. Example- during my first year, in 1 class there were 4 students who thought it would be fun to throw paper at each other. I waited until class ended, and then told those 4 that they could leave once the paper had been picked up. In that class was the biracial (B/W) student. As one student tried to walk out without picking up any of the paper, he looked at me and said- “Let the ’n’ pick it up”. Trust me, I took care of it. But as I lived there, I was astonished at how many of the townspeople used that terminology. And it was done so casually and rolled off their tongues so easily. I had one person who once stood in front of me in the school parking lot, pumped his fist into the air and shouted ‘KKK’ repeatedly. One of the Italian-American students had taken 2 classes from me, and during his senior year he came and asked me to help him- one of his teachers was always referring to him publicly using ethnic slurs for Italians. I told him to ask the teacher to please stop doing it. The teacher told him no. I said next time it happens, complain to an administrator. Some time later the student came into my class in tears- the administrator said- “Well, you are Italian, get over it”. I waited until the school day ended, and then went into the staff lounge and confronted that administrator, literally reading him the riot act. I even think I dropped the ‘f-bomb’ a couple of times. But I wasn’t fired, and the teacher in question was told to stop with the slurs. But my popularity among some on the staff was dropping. But an even worse incident was around the corner. During my 3rd/4th year there, I had a 10th grade student in one of my afternoon classes. Her parents had divorced, the mother moved out of the state, and the father had remarried. She walks into my class one day and I noticed she had a black eye. After I gave the students their classwork I called her up and asked what happened. In a very matter-of-fact way said her father had punched her the previous night- but then quickly added she deserved it because she had back-talked him. I called the office, and an administrator came in and took her to the office. After school ended that day, I filled out an abuse report and submitted it. That was the last time I saw her. About 3 weeks later an administrator came in and told me that a deal had been made with the father- he had high status in the community. If he agreed to let his daughter leave the state to live with her mother, then he would not be prosecuted. In fact, the entire incident would not even be made public. But a more serious question was never asked nor answered- why hadn’t any of the teachers from earlier in the day reported it? I didn’t know who her father was, maybe the other teachers did. By now I’m considered a buttinski reaching beyond the school environment and interfering in people’s home-life. The final incident I will tell you about revolves around bullying. There was a 9th grade boy who was being bullied by some upperclassmen. I stepped in and stopped it. The odd thing was that 3 years later, that same boy (now a senior) and another senior boy were bullying a 9th grader. The problem was that their behavior could actually have a dangerous result. Again I stepped in and stopped it, and pushed an administrator to get the boys suspended from participating in athletic events for a week (they were top athletes). Again, the reaction of some of the staff, the boys’ parents, and some community members was that I was over-reacting, boys will be boys, and it was just normal high school hi-jinxs. Yes, I was fighting against bullying 30 years ago. Still I was considered as someone who stuck his nose into situations where it didn’t belong. I was someone who was shaking up their social structure, taking a stand for those who had less power, less status.
Now for the community. When I moved there, it had a little more than 1000 people living within the city limits. There was only 1 television station, airing out of Grand Junction (50 miles away), and one local newspaper published in Delta (20 miles away). There was a police department with 3-4 officers; Roger’s case came under the jurisdiction of the Sheriff’s Dept. because the family lived in the county, not within the city limits. As I stated earlier, many of the families were generational. They expected things to stay as they were. One parent complained to me that I was teaching US History incorrectly by showing both sides of an issue, both good and bad. I should only discuss the good. I asked how the students were to get a complete understanding? She said, “They will learn it in college”. I asked what about those students who don’t go to college? Her response- “Then they don’t need to know”. I believe at this point I should use OMG! Are you kidding me? The one thought that kept running through my mind- we’ve got to make the cage stronger.
But in terms of the community itself, there were 2 events which stood out. Around 1982, an enterprising person purchased about 5 used arcade video games- Donkey Kong, Ms PacMan, etc (you get the picture). This person then rented an empty storefront, brought in the arcade games, and started his business. Within a couple of months, the city council passed a law which prohibited the public use of arcade video games. So this person had to shut down his new business. This type of mentality goes back to the view of pinball machines during the 1950s as evil. Then I would find out later that the introduction of the personal home computer would come to be considered a tool of the Devil. But what was most disturbing was the event which happened the year after I left. To save the community from some evil, some community members took it upon themselves to remove books from the school library that they deemed subversive. Those books were then piled up in the middle of a parking lot of an organization (that regularly has its meetings on Sunday) and burned. I found it interesting that it occurred a year after I left.
So there were a number of factors which helped me to decide to leave Cedaredge, not just one. But one poster was correct, the final straw for me was a disagreement with an administrator. We had made an agreement- if I carried through with my part, then some changes would be made regarding my assignments. Not only did I fulfill my part of the agreement, but I exceeded in what I agreed to do. And then the administrator refused to fulfill his part of the agreement. Sorry, but if you shake hands on an agreement and give your word, then you carry it through. It was the final straw- I’m outta there.
The one thing I regret about leaving- it would have made one hell of a sociological study to determine the impact of the introduction of both cable television and the internet into the community- the moat and walls would be breached by the barbarians- anarchy will reign. The long and short of it- I was a bad fit in that community- a round peg in a square hole.
OK, my next post will focus on Roger. I already know that some will be disappointed because I will not be able to give you a definitive answer as to what happened to Roger. But I will give you some things to think about. Give me some time because I am a poor typist- I use the ever popular ‘hunt-and-peck’ method on the keys.
 
Jpash , looking forward to your next post , very informative.
 
Mr. Pash,

Thank you for this informative update. I would have thought such mentality would be found in Louisiana or Mississippi, and in the 1950's not Colorado in the 1980's.
I think you answered my inquiry as well.
Regards,
M Smith

Mr. Satch:
First of all, we need a little information about Cedaredge- both the high school and the community. It will help put things into context. I used to ask newly-hired teachers if they had received their 1951 calendar when they crossed over the county line. Younger members of the staff would smile, even chuckle. But the older staff members, who had been there for years, would frown and mutter under their breath. The high school had about 230 students, of which about 98% were White. There were about 13 full-time teachers and 3 administrators (2 had some classroom assignments). When I showed up the first day (1979) for teachers meetings and classroom prep, I had an interesting revelation- 3 of us were new, and each of us had beards. Reaction? One teacher asked the principal when it had been decided that it was ok to hire unprofessional people. At first I thought it was meant as a joke, but it was actually a serious question. There had never been a male teacher with a beard in the school’s entire history (uh-oh, as one of the great poets of my youth said, “The Times They Are A-Changin’”). Over the course of my 5 years there, there were 2 biracial students (1- Black/White, 1 White/Japanese), 4 Hispanics, and 2 Italian-Americans (I include these 2 because of experiences). What concerned me was the attitude of many of the students toward these students. Example- during my first year, in 1 class there were 4 students who thought it would be fun to throw paper at each other. I waited until class ended, and then told those 4 that they could leave once the paper had been picked up. In that class was the biracial (B/W) student. As one student tried to walk out without picking up any of the paper, he looked at me and said- “Let the ’n’ pick it up”. Trust me, I took care of it. But as I lived there, I was astonished at how many of the townspeople used that terminology. And it was done so casually and rolled off their tongues so easily. I had one person who once stood in front of me in the school parking lot, pumped his fist into the air and shouted ‘KKK’ repeatedly. One of the Italian-American students had taken 2 classes from me, and during his senior year he came and asked me to help him- one of his teachers was always referring to him publicly using ethnic slurs for Italians. I told him to ask the teacher to please stop doing it. The teacher told him no. I said next time it happens, complain to an administrator. Some time later the student came into my class in tears- the administrator said- “Well, you are Italian, get over it”. I waited until the school day ended, and then went into the staff lounge and confronted that administrator, literally reading him the riot act. I even think I dropped the ‘f-bomb’ a couple of times. But I wasn’t fired, and the teacher in question was told to stop with the slurs. But my popularity among some on the staff was dropping. But an even worse incident was around the corner. During my 3rd/4th year there, I had a 10th grade student in one of my afternoon classes. Her parents had divorced, the mother moved out of the state, and the father had remarried. She walks into my class one day and I noticed she had a black eye. After I gave the students their classwork I called her up and asked what happened. In a very matter-of-fact way said her father had punched her the previous night- but then quickly added she deserved it because she had back-talked him. I called the office, and an administrator came in and took her to the office. After school ended that day, I filled out an abuse report and submitted it. That was the last time I saw her. About 3 weeks later an administrator came in and told me that a deal had been made with the father- he had high status in the community. If he agreed to let his daughter leave the state to live with her mother, then he would not be prosecuted. In fact, the entire incident would not even be made public. But a more serious question was never asked nor answered- why hadn’t any of the teachers from earlier in the day reported it? I didn’t know who her father was, maybe the other teachers did. By now I’m considered a buttinski reaching beyond the school environment and interfering in people’s home-life. The final incident I will tell you about revolves around bullying. There was a 9th grade boy who was being bullied by some upperclassmen. I stepped in and stopped it. The odd thing was that 3 years later, that same boy (now a senior) and another senior boy were bullying a 9th grader. The problem was that their behavior could actually have a dangerous result. Again I stepped in and stopped it, and pushed an administrator to get the boys suspended from participating in athletic events for a week (they were top athletes). Again, the reaction of some of the staff, the boys’ parents, and some community members was that I was over-reacting, boys will be boys, and it was just normal high school hi-jinxs. Yes, I was fighting against bullying 30 years ago. Still I was considered as someone who stuck his nose into situations where it didn’t belong. I was someone who was shaking up their social structure, taking a stand for those who had less power, less status.
Now for the community. When I moved there, it had a little more than 1000 people living within the city limits. There was only 1 television station, airing out of Grand Junction (50 miles away), and one local newspaper published in Delta (20 miles away). There was a police department with 3-4 officers; Roger’s case came under the jurisdiction of the Sheriff’s Dept. because the family lived in the county, not within the city limits. As I stated earlier, many of the families were generational. They expected things to stay as they were. One parent complained to me that I was teaching US History incorrectly by showing both sides of an issue, both good and bad. I should only discuss the good. I asked how the students were to get a complete understanding? She said, “They will learn it in college”. I asked what about those students who don’t go to college? Her response- “Then they don’t need to know”. I believe at this point I should use OMG! Are you kidding me? The one thought that kept running through my mind- we’ve got to make the cage stronger.
But in terms of the community itself, there were 2 events which stood out. Around 1982, an enterprising person purchased about 5 used arcade video games- Donkey Kong, Ms PacMan, etc (you get the picture). This person then rented an empty storefront, brought in the arcade games, and started his business. Within a couple of months, the city council passed a law which prohibited the public use of arcade video games. So this person had to shut down his new business. This type of mentality goes back to the view of pinball machines during the 1950s as evil. Then I would find out later that the introduction of the personal home computer would come to be considered a tool of the Devil. But what was most disturbing was the event which happened the year after I left. To save the community from some evil, some community members took it upon themselves to remove books from the school library that they deemed subversive. Those books were then piled up in the middle of a parking lot of an organization (that regularly has its meetings on Sunday) and burned. I found it interesting that it occurred a year after I left.
So there were a number of factors which helped me to decide to leave Cedaredge, not just one. But one poster was correct, the final straw for me was a disagreement with an administrator. We had made an agreement- if I carried through with my part, then some changes would be made regarding my assignments. Not only did I fulfill my part of the agreement, but I exceeded in what I agreed to do. And then the administrator refused to fulfill his part of the agreement. Sorry, but if you shake hands on an agreement and give your word, then you carry it through. It was the final straw- I’m outta there.
The one thing I regret about leaving- it would have made one hell of a sociological study to determine the impact of the introduction of both cable television and the internet into the community- the moat and walls would be breached by the barbarians- anarchy will reign. The long and short of it- I was a bad fit in that community- a round peg in a square hole.
OK, my next post will focus on Roger. I already know that some will be disappointed because I will not be able to give you a definitive answer as to what happened to Roger. But I will give you some things to think about. Give me some time because I am a poor typist- I use the ever popular ‘hunt-and-peck’ method on the keys.
 
Roger’s Escape
My father was a CIA analyst. He said there were 2 simple techniques when trying to ascertain something.
1) Almost everything is possible, but there are few things that are probable. Eliminate the improbable. How do you do that? Many times it’s based on life experiences. Children/Teenagers tend to think in possibilities, not probabilities because they don’t have enough life experiences.
2) It has to make sense. If it doesn’t make sense, there has to be a reason for that-
a) you haven’t asked the right questions.
b) you don’t have enough information; or
c) someone may be withholding the needed information.
So why would Roger leave? My answer is based upon 2 things- 1) what I know from his single-word response for the 2 words/phrases that were part of the in-class free association exercise; and 2) what the sheriff’s detective told me later. That is all it will be based upon- but that is enough.
Roger was experiencing a situation in his life. I think silver1bs had stated near the beginning of this original website that everything with Roger was fine. I know that wasn’t the case from what I read and what the detective had said. That’s why I questioned if this person was really Roger’s sister. However, not many people were aware of his situation. Another earlier poster (I think went by the id ‘Chief’ or something like that) claimed to be a high school friend, and made 2 very interesting comments (now I’m paraphrasing because I don’t know where the post is anymore to look it up- I should tell you I’m not very computer literate, and I don’t know what threads are or how to find them; I use my computer for emails and storing my Classic Rock music collection)- 1) life is not always what it seems; and 2) he hoped Roger found what he was looking for ( I don’t think he was referring to an object, but a state of mind). A couple of people picked up on it, asked some questions about what it could mean, and then it was forgotten. And the Chief never replied again that I know of, so no further explanation. But it does fit into the scenario I was told by the detective. So, these were important statements. That means there were a few people who were aware to one degree or another of Roger’s situation. But no one stepped up to help him- friends or family. Again, I did not find out until after the fact. Roger never came to me and said- “Mr. Pash, I have a situation in my life, and would like you to help me”. Although I will say that when I had the opportunity, I took a college course later on this subject/situation, so that if I ever came across it again, I would have better knowledge of it and how to approach it. There is the possibility that there was more than one issue that Roger was dealing with. I only know of the one issue, so I will not theorize about other reasons as to why he left, just that he did. Now if others want to speculate as to what he was dealing with, that’s their prerogative, but chances are they will be wrong, and if a few do stumble upon it, they really won’t know it. You simply don’t have the information needed to validate your assessment. But we have to consider what’s possible, and more importantly, what’s probable. That latter becomes more difficult to ascertain.
So what do we know?
- Roger was facing a difficult situation in his life. That much is obvious.
What options did Roger have in dealing with his situation?
1a)- Do nothing, and continue to live with his situation- to put up with it as best he could. But apparently, it became overwhelming and this option was no longer a viable choice.
1b)- To confront those responsible for the situation. But from descriptions of him, Roger seemed more affable than confrontational. And by doing so may have made it a public issue, and that was something that may not have been desirable.
1c)- To seek help/assistance from friends or family members in dealing with the situation. It seems there were friends (how many I don’t know) who were aware of the situation to some degree, but felt they couldn’t, shouldn’t, or wouldn’t help in any way. And I find it hard to believe that close family members wouldn’t step up to help. Part of what the detective uncovered came from family. So silver1bs, are you ready to divulge to the sleuthies what they need to know to figure it all out?
1d)- Or, to remove yourself from the situation. Just simply leave. That way the situation is no longer a part of your life. It doesn’t become public. No explanations are necessary. You have the opportunity to start over, to start fresh. For a 17-year old, that may have seemed the best, and easiest, choice. Is there the possibility that maybe a friend/friends suggested this to him as an option? Possibly. Could a person get false identification papers, and achieve a sense of personal freedom and….safety. Teenagers tend to think nothing bad will happen to them, so they are willing to place themselves in dangerous situations without fully realizing or appreciating the danger. So my thought? Roger decided to simply walk out the door and leave the building without ever looking back. If that was his choice, I understand why. How many teenagers runaway every year (for a variety of reasons) to just get away and never look back. Without knowing the particulars, you have no right to judge him. If you were in his circumstances, you might have very well handled it differently. But you are not Roger, so whatever you would have done is irrelevant, and not a basis for judgment.
Is it possible that someone helped him leave after all? That would make it easier. It is possible, so consider these scenarios:
2a) The ski coach was questioned about Roger’s behavior that prior weekend, and apparently he felt everything was fine. But were Roger’s teammates questioned? Were some of them considered his good friends? What about friendships he may have established with members of competing teams? Since he was at a ski event that prior weekend, might he have told one of them what he was planning, and they agreed to help if he was able to get close to where they lived- “If you can get to (fill in the blank), call me and I’ll come get you”. Definitely possible, but you don’t know the likelihood of that scenario playing out without knowing how strong his friendships were.
2b) School friendships are not limited to friends only in the same grade level. Therefore it’s very likely he had friends who had already graduated. They are older, and are likely to have access to a car. Is it possible he may have called one of them and told them what he was going to do? Asked for their help, and they agreed. Again, possible, but the probability factor is based once again on the level of the friendship.
But as I have thought about this case, one issue has stood out and bothered me. It doesn’t make sense-
2c) The morning he left, his friends said they saw him at the lockers. He said he would be right back. But he never shows up in any of his classes. Wouldn’t that raise a concern for them? Not if he told them he was ditchin’ school that day. Had he ever ditched school before? His friends wouldn’t raise a concern if it would get him caught. So he said he’s going to ditch school and for them to play dumb. Not until later did they realize that he actually ran away, but they don’t say anything because they think it might get them in trouble and screw up their senior year (more likely for them than 2 poachers who fear getting a ticket). Or he said he was running away, and to just pretend they didn’t know. But if he didn’t tell them that, why didn’t they wonder where he was and try to find out. Especially if he hadn’t shown up by lunch. You always have lunch with your friends. Well, maybe he got sick and went home. Wouldn’t you call at lunch or after school, or go over after school to see if he was alright? There were only about 50 seniors each year. There are certain classes that are solely for seniors. So some of his friends would have been in those classes with him. And they knew they had seen him that morning, now Roger is not in class. It just doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t try to find out why. They could go to the office and ask if Roger left sick. Or do they not want to do that so they don’t raise any alarm.
What may have happened to him after leaving? I have no idea. When I left Cedaredge, I was under the impression he had been found (through his social security number) working in a gas station in Kansas. That was the rumor that had spread through the town. Plus the case had been closed. In fact, for the next 15 years or so, I actually used Roger’s circumstances when discussing free association with my classes as an example of how it could help a therapist go in a certain direction of inquiry. But when I found out that he hadn’t been found (a rumor is after all, just a rumor), I stopped using it as an example. But that means about 1500-1800 former students know Roger’s story.
At this point we have reached a fork in the road. One road goes down a dark path- he got abducted by a motorcycle gang or crazy religious zealots, hit by a car while standing on the side of the road and covered up by the driver, tied up by someone with a shotgun, whatever horrible scenario you can come up with. Virtually everyone of you went down that road. And the problem- it’s all conjecture. Pure and simple conjecture. Are you hoping that if this case ever gets resolved, and you were the closest, that you’ll get a trophy or ribbon? Or just bragging rights.
The other road is less dark- he got away. He started a new life, and found peace. But it too can become dark. He moves to a town that he likes, starts his new life, and then, God forbid, has a fatal car accident 15 years later. He has been living there openly with his new identification, so no one would think he’s not who he says he is. No need to finger print him to check out who he is. They’ve known him for 15 years, and so he was buried under that name. How would you ever find that out?
Now I just have a sense that some of you can’t wait to hammer out your latest weird *advertiser censored*, off-the-wall theory. Settle down and think rationally. There are too many variables that you don’t know; you don’t have the real truth nor were you even aware of its existence. Don’t disappoint and fall back into your old patterns.
 
Roger’s Escape
My father was a CIA analyst. He said there were 2 simple techniques when trying to ascertain something.
1) Almost everything is possible, but there are few things that are probable. Eliminate the improbable. How do you do that? Many times it’s based on life experiences. Children/Teenagers tend to think in possibilities, not probabilities because they don’t have enough life experiences.
2) It has to make sense. If it doesn’t make sense, there has to be a reason for that-
a) you haven’t asked the right questions.
b) you don’t have enough information; or
c) someone may be withholding the needed information.
So why would Roger leave? My answer is based upon 2 things- 1) what I know from his single-word response for the 2 words/phrases that were part of the in-class free association exercise; and 2) what the sheriff’s detective told me later. That is all it will be based upon- but that is enough.
Roger was experiencing a situation in his life. I think silver1bs had stated near the beginning of this original website that everything with Roger was fine. I know that wasn’t the case from what I read and what the detective had said. That’s why I questioned if this person was really Roger’s sister. However, not many people were aware of his situation. Another earlier poster (I think went by the id ‘Chief’ or something like that) claimed to be a high school friend, and made 2 very interesting comments (now I’m paraphrasing because I don’t know where the post is anymore to look it up- I should tell you I’m not very computer literate, and I don’t know what threads are or how to find them; I use my computer for emails and storing my Classic Rock music collection)- 1) life is not always what it seems; and 2) he hoped Roger found what he was looking for ( I don’t think he was referring to an object, but a state of mind). A couple of people picked up on it, asked some questions about what it could mean, and then it was forgotten. And the Chief never replied again that I know of, so no further explanation. But it does fit into the scenario I was told by the detective. So, these were important statements. That means there were a few people who were aware to one degree or another of Roger’s situation. But no one stepped up to help him- friends or family. Again, I did not find out until after the fact. Roger never came to me and said- “Mr. Pash, I have a situation in my life, and would like you to help me”. Although I will say that when I had the opportunity, I took a college course later on this subject/situation, so that if I ever came across it again, I would have better knowledge of it and how to approach it. There is the possibility that there was more than one issue that Roger was dealing with. I only know of the one issue, so I will not theorize about other reasons as to why he left, just that he did. Now if others want to speculate as to what he was dealing with, that’s their prerogative, but chances are they will be wrong, and if a few do stumble upon it, they really won’t know it. You simply don’t have the information needed to validate your assessment. But we have to consider what’s possible, and more importantly, what’s probable. That latter becomes more difficult to ascertain.
So what do we know?
- Roger was facing a difficult situation in his life. That much is obvious.
What options did Roger have in dealing with his situation?
1a)- Do nothing, and continue to live with his situation- to put up with it as best he could. But apparently, it became overwhelming and this option was no longer a viable choice.
1b)- To confront those responsible for the situation. But from descriptions of him, Roger seemed more affable than confrontational. And by doing so may have made it a public issue, and that was something that may not have been desirable.
1c)- To seek help/assistance from friends or family members in dealing with the situation. It seems there were friends (how many I don’t know) who were aware of the situation to some degree, but felt they couldn’t, shouldn’t, or wouldn’t help in any way. And I find it hard to believe that close family members wouldn’t step up to help. Part of what the detective uncovered came from family. So silver1bs, are you ready to divulge to the sleuthies what they need to know to figure it all out?
1d)- Or, to remove yourself from the situation. Just simply leave. That way the situation is no longer a part of your life. It doesn’t become public. No explanations are necessary. You have the opportunity to start over, to start fresh. For a 17-year old, that may have seemed the best, and easiest, choice. Is there the possibility that maybe a friend/friends suggested this to him as an option? Possibly. Could a person get false identification papers, and achieve a sense of personal freedom and….safety. Teenagers tend to think nothing bad will happen to them, so they are willing to place themselves in dangerous situations without fully realizing or appreciating the danger. So my thought? Roger decided to simply walk out the door and leave the building without ever looking back. If that was his choice, I understand why. How many teenagers runaway every year (for a variety of reasons) to just get away and never look back. Without knowing the particulars, you have no right to judge him. If you were in his circumstances, you might have very well handled it differently. But you are not Roger, so whatever you would have done is irrelevant, and not a basis for judgment.
Is it possible that someone helped him leave after all? That would make it easier. It is possible, so consider these scenarios:
2a) The ski coach was questioned about Roger’s behavior that prior weekend, and apparently he felt everything was fine. But were Roger’s teammates questioned? Were some of them considered his good friends? What about friendships he may have established with members of competing teams? Since he was at a ski event that prior weekend, might he have told one of them what he was planning, and they agreed to help if he was able to get close to where they lived- “If you can get to (fill in the blank), call me and I’ll come get you”. Definitely possible, but you don’t know the likelihood of that scenario playing out without knowing how strong his friendships were.
2b) School friendships are not limited to friends only in the same grade level. Therefore it’s very likely he had friends who had already graduated. They are older, and are likely to have access to a car. Is it possible he may have called one of them and told them what he was going to do? Asked for their help, and they agreed. Again, possible, but the probability factor is based once again on the level of the friendship.
But as I have thought about this case, one issue has stood out and bothered me. It doesn’t make sense-
2c) The morning he left, his friends said they saw him at the lockers. He said he would be right back. But he never shows up in any of his classes. Wouldn’t that raise a concern for them? Not if he told them he was ditchin’ school that day. Had he ever ditched school before? His friends wouldn’t raise a concern if it would get him caught. So he said he’s going to ditch school and for them to play dumb. Not until later did they realize that he actually ran away, but they don’t say anything because they think it might get them in trouble and screw up their senior year (more likely for them than 2 poachers who fear getting a ticket). Or he said he was running away, and to just pretend they didn’t know. But if he didn’t tell them that, why didn’t they wonder where he was and try to find out. Especially if he hadn’t shown up by lunch. You always have lunch with your friends. Well, maybe he got sick and went home. Wouldn’t you call at lunch or after school, or go over after school to see if he was alright? There were only about 50 seniors each year. There are certain classes that are solely for seniors. So some of his friends would have been in those classes with him. And they knew they had seen him that morning, now Roger is not in class. It just doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t try to find out why. They could go to the office and ask if Roger left sick. Or do they not want to do that so they don’t raise any alarm.
What may have happened to him after leaving? I have no idea. When I left Cedaredge, I was under the impression he had been found (through his social security number) working in a gas station in Kansas. That was the rumor that had spread through the town. Plus the case had been closed. In fact, for the next 15 years or so, I actually used Roger’s circumstances when discussing free association with my classes as an example of how it could help a therapist go in a certain direction of inquiry. But when I found out that he hadn’t been found (a rumor is after all, just a rumor), I stopped using it as an example. But that means about 1500-1800 former students know Roger’s story.
At this point we have reached a fork in the road. One road goes down a dark path- he got abducted by a motorcycle gang or crazy religious zealots, hit by a car while standing on the side of the road and covered up by the driver, tied up by someone with a shotgun, whatever horrible scenario you can come up with. Virtually everyone of you went down that road. And the problem- it’s all conjecture. Pure and simple conjecture. Are you hoping that if this case ever gets resolved, and you were the closest, that you’ll get a trophy or ribbon? Or just bragging rights.
The other road is less dark- he got away. He started a new life, and found peace. But it too can become dark. He moves to a town that he likes, starts his new life, and then, God forbid, has a fatal car accident 15 years later. He has been living there openly with his new identification, so no one would think he’s not who he says he is. No need to finger print him to check out who he is. They’ve known him for 15 years, and so he was buried under that name. How would you ever find that out?
Now I just have a sense that some of you can’t wait to hammer out your latest weird *advertiser censored*, off-the-wall theory. Settle down and think rationally. There are too many variables that you don’t know; you don’t have the real truth nor were you even aware of its existence. Don’t disappoint and fall back into your old patterns.

Maybe there was something going on in his family that made him want to go away?
 
Mr Pash,
You raise some interesting points. I cannot know, and will not waste time guessing at what problems Roger may have been facing. Within this blog over the years there have been many theories... he was gay, his gf was with child, the family was facing hard times and he left to find a job, etc. All of these theories have are just that, and since none of knew the young man, we cannot speculate on their validity. From this distance of TIME and SPACE is APPEARS that his was a close knit family, or so it is presented as such. If a runaway, I would guess it was not planned long in advance... he had paid his dorm fees for college for the Fall semester, and he had paid entry fees for a race at Aspen the next weekend. I would not guess he was so devious as to do these things to throw people off the track as to his plans.He left his car and motorcycle behind, and $1000 in his bank account... yes, he may have thought that if either disappeared people would be more inclined to think him a runaway. It is my understanding he was very bright. In 1981 it was certainly easier to assume a new identity and walk out of your life than it would be today. If that be the case I feel for his parents... his father died of a stroke within 6 months and his mother died never knowing what happened. I am not judging his actions but one can have sympathy for those affected by a situation. I could hazard a guess at his situation , but only by depending on third part statements, rumors, internet gossip, so I shall not do so. Since you state you base your opinion on the word association exercise as well as you conversation with detective, I am curious why the LE officially label this a Non Family Abduction and officially speculate he was murdered, "probably by someone he knew." Perhaps you have some thoughts on why such a designation?
Respectfully,
M Smith

Maybe there was something going on in his family that made him want to go away?
 
Mr Pash,
You raise some interesting points. I cannot know, and will not waste time guessing at what problems Roger may have been facing. Within this blog over the years there have been many theories... he was gay, his gf was with child, the family was facing hard times and he left to find a job, etc. All of these theories have are just that, and since none of knew the young man, we cannot speculate on their validity. From this distance of TIME and SPACE is APPEARS that his was a close knit family, or so it is presented as such. If a runaway, I would guess it was not planned long in advance... he had paid his dorm fees for college for the Fall semester, and he had paid entry fees for a race at Aspen the next weekend. I would not guess he was so devious as to do these things to throw people off the track as to his plans.He left his car and motorcycle behind, and $1000 in his bank account... yes, he may have thought that if either disappeared people would be more inclined to think him a runaway. It is my understanding he was very bright. In 1981 it was certainly easier to assume a new identity and walk out of your life than it would be today. If that be the case I feel for his parents... his father died of a stroke within 6 months and his mother died never knowing what happened. I am not judging his actions but one can have sympathy for those affected by a situation. I could hazard a guess at his situation , but only by depending on third part statements, rumors, internet gossip, so I shall not do so. Since you state you base your opinion on the word association exercise as well as you conversation with detective, I am curious why the LE officially label this a Non Family Abduction and officially speculate he was murdered, "probably by someone he knew." Perhaps you have some thoughts on why such a designation?
Respectfully,
M Smith

Just a quick question,probably not relevant.He had a car,a bike,and he went to school by bus EVERY day?Or only that one day?
 
Thank you Mr. Pash,

Great points raised. I really think that Roger has a serious personal conflict in his life, which was brought out in your class' assignment. I think it helped you see Roger's pain in a way that no one else could see, or understand. Roger couldn't take the conflict, his friends couldn't handle what ever the issue was, if it ever was revealed to them Roger's issue was too shocking and painful. It seems that if Roger had stayed, other people would have found out about his personal pain and conflict. The small town almost reminiscent of the kind of values associated with something out of the Salem Witch Trials. People who didn't follow the simple, if even simplistic views of the community where deeply ostracized for views that violated the social norms, or what we would see today in a modern society as a "backward belief" system.

I believe that Roger had more emotional pain than anyone could understand, and probably left to get away from the personal issues that must of pained him for a very long time. I share Mr. Pash's concern that it seems odd that no one really took the time during the day Roger vanished to inquire why he did not go to any classes, or to go to the office to ask about him? It seems that by the time somebody cared and got a search mobilized, Roger was sadly, long gone.

When did people actually consider that Roger never came back after being seen at his locker, and actually start searching? Perhaps quicker community involvement could have helped Roger with this problem, or even some concern in the weeks to months before that day? Nothing was "fine." and I think that these issues were a part of Roger's life for a very long time.

Satch
 
These posts from Mr. Pash have been very illuminating and I give him credit coming on here and getting into such detail about not only Roger but the whole place and time surrounding this case.
 
Mr. Pash, am I reading more into your post than is actually there about Roger? I feel as if we have the most likely scenario of what happened. The question that remains is why though. What is it that he was struggling with that he felt couldn't be resolved by staying there? Either it was a very difficult situation or just difficult for a teenager. Even small things can be incredibly over whelming for a teenager or young adult. Things that a seasoned adult may take differently. If you feel I'm completely off base or have no idea what I'm talking about, feel free to let it rip. I'm just happy to see more discussion about Roger.
 
I have spent the entire day reading the old thread and this new one. I feel like without us knowing what issue Roger was facing, we can only assume and those of us with wild imaginations (myself) have no idea which situation would be valid enough to make one leave and stay gone even though the parents were suffering/deceased because of the situation. The four possibilities that stand out in my mind are he could have witnessed a crime that would have turned the old-fashioned town on their heads and implicated many higher up citizens, he could have been taken advantage of sexually by an adult he trusted, he could have been diagnosed with a disease (this was a time when AIDS was seen as highly contagious, and those who were diagnosed were shunned in public like Ryan White), or he could have had sexual identification issues like maybe he was homosexual or trans and this would not have been acceptable in such a close-minded community. This is all just conjecture. I feel if he had impregnated a girl this would not have been such a huge deal. Yes the town was like the one in Footloose, but at the most scandalous for the town, he would have run away WITH her or they would have gotten an abortion. Most places like that would have just had them marry young and unhappily.

Like JPash stated, we won't know unless LE shares or a family member chooses to share. I feel that if it would help clear JPash or help with the case then after thirty some years LE should share something that would make all these wild accusations stop. I know it is none of our business about his personal life, but if there was a situation so bad that it causes one to run away, commit suicide, etc. and then other people are lead to believe an innocent person is responsible then sometimes things should be shared from LE/familly. Especially if it can solve this case.

Maybe we can just be hopeful that Roger is out there somewhere leading a new life and finally found peace.
 
Nice to see recent posts for this case. Just a few questions:
1. Has anyone besides John P ever been named a person of interest by the Delta County Sheriff's Office?
2. Has there ever been any corroboration, by LE or other students or faculty, that a word-association assignment was given out?
3. Has there ever been any corroboration, by LE or other students or faculty, that Roger turned in this assignment?
4. Has there ever been any corroboration, by LE or others, that Roger's assignment was turned over to LE by John P?
 
I came across Roger's thread last night and have finally finished reading all posts. I did go to Lori's blog and read there as well as a few other websites
to get as much info as I could.

I'm sorry Roger's family has been through so much, its just a shame that those who knew him and posted here gave us so little info on Roger.

I'm am inclined to stick with LE on this. I know far more about the POI than I really needed to and found myself saying this IS about Roger and
there is so much I don't know about HIM....I completely respect his sister's hesitance in revealing too much, it just may to too painful to get deeply
entrenched in all the past with its unanswered questions.

There are some inconsistencies, one is; did Roger walk off or was he suicidal? POI told the family Roger was suicidal
(at LE's request) early on but now there is an outline of Roger's "escape" because he was possibly gay or some other family dynamic
going on?

Another thing is I can't make the leap of a wrestling coach/social science/history teacher giving a Freudian exercise, but then I'm not
educated like he is so there is that. It seems like that would tell him a lot about his students - that may embarrass them to answer out
loud in class...IIRC, thats how he put it.What was there to gain from that, I guess nothing since the exercise was never completed but it
mademe wonder..

In my mind though LE knows something that made them look at the POI and they have never come back and either
said they were looking in another direction (suicide or escaped/walked away) nor cleared the original POI,
so again I'll stick with LE until I see solid info from another source besides the POI. He has posted his version and I'd just
bet Roger's sister and friends could too...Roger has no voice in this and for that I'm sad.

Blessings to Roger's family, I do hope they get answers one day soon.
All JMO ~ MOO
 
I believe the POI was a Psychology teacher, hence the exercise. However, I find it interesting that as a result of Roger's answer to the exercise Mr Pash believes he was having some sort of psychological or emotional stress, however LE seems not to have put much weight on it. Mr. Pash states HE NEVER told Roger's parents that he was either counseling Roger or stated that Roger was suicidal. He went to see the parents at the request of LE. Mr. Pash is of the believe, to my understanding that Roger left of his own free will, he does raise an interesting question.. in a school with say 80 seniors, and having 2 locker partners and telling one of them he "will catch up with you in class" and then never doing so... did no one suspect anything? Were his locker partners helping to facilitate his running away? Others... his sister, ski coach insist that he was facing no crisis and had no cause to leave. The FBI report described him as a "straight arrow" in addition, he paid for his dorm room for the first semester at college, entered a ski race for the next weekend, did he waste his hard earned money just to throw everyone off the track? Also, he had to know his parents would be devastated, his father it appears literally died of a broken heart six months later... was he that uncaring or so self absorbed?
I believe all of Roger's teachers were questioned, not just Mr. Pash and being a "person of interest" is not a true legal term such as "suspect" The hunters who said they saw Roger with hands bound behind his back being lead into the forest and heard two gun shots are interesting. If the story be true, they say it occurred in "late spring" Roger disappeared in February. Where was he all that time? Why keep him alive for 2-3 months after kidnapping him? If the story is false... what was the point? People on their death bed don't tend to fabricate.. a death bed statement is legally admissible. But LE didn't seem to buy it... they maintain their view that he was murdered "shortly after he disappeared, probably by someone he knew"
 
You make some good points mrssmith.

Pash stating he never told Roger's family that Roger was suicidal totally contradicts what Roger's sister said.

He came back in and gave his account of that visit I had to go back and find it: This thread page 4 post 196.

I have so many questions but not so much time. I ws determined not to get lost in his minutia of explanations
which turn out to be non answers...or open questions as if he has no memory. Bolded are my thoughts. Examples:

Hello Sleuthies:

1) I did not just show up at the Ellison’s home. No. The detective told me that they had requested to meet with me. What do I do? Do I tell them what Roger had written? The detective told me to just let them talk- and not to mention what Roger had written.For whatever reason, people hear you teach psychology and the vast majority think you are a psychologist. So maybe they thought I had talked with Roger, and had some knowledge. I have had students ask me why I was teaching and didn’t have my own practice. And it didn’t matter when I told them I majored in history, they would continue to ask. But the most interesting situations were when there would be teacher meetings about a student where the school psychologist would attend, and after the meeting was over, the school psychologist would begin discussing the psychological issues for that student with me. I would have to explain that I majored in history, and only had 2 psych courses. At that point the school psychologist would get red from embarrassment, quickly close the folder, and leave. I never talked to Roger about anything. I was not trained to be a counselor or therapist, nor did it interest me to act in that way. Definitely seems like distancing here and I thought he taught social sciences and not psychology when Roger was in his class...
2) I never suggested that Roger committed suicide. The parents/family may have asked if I thought he did, but as I stated, I was not a trained psychologist, therefore I would not have known what behaviors to look for, or how to explain such a thing. But there is another more important reason why I would never have said such a thing. It’s something that very few people know about me. I had an older brother who committed suicide. It devastated me, my parents and my grandfather. It was something that we never discussed after the funeral was over. There was no note explaining why- it seemed to be an impulsive act on his part, not something thought out and planned as some are. And knowing the impact it had on my family, it is not something I would visit upon another family. So thank you for making me re-experience that time once again.
Blue hilight is minutia IMO...its just seems to divert attention away from the initial point and is simply justification for not saying anything, even if he HAD
thought Roger was suicidal he has an excuse why he wouldn't have told them.
He apparently doesn't even remember if they asked him that - nor does he tell us anything about that meeting. Because I mean, if he didn't talk to Roger on
a personal basis and had nothing to do with him other than his class why would the family pick him out as someone they wanted to talk to? Why not another teacher? Or the school counselor? Why did LE think he should talk to the family? Because of the assignment that LE told Pash not to talk about.
Whats the point in that?

And about his memory:
3) The only thing I gave the detective was the class assignment. The notebook that I alluded to belonged to the detective- that is the notebook I asked the sheriff about in 1997; I knew what the detective told me as he read from his notebook (again, did he think I was a psychologist) about his investigation, that it seemed to corroborate what Roger had written. I wanted to make sure that that information was still accessible to this new investigator, since it was relevant. So he remembers to ask LE about this notebook in 1997? and yet can't remember details about much else concerning conversations, the assignment in his drawer - which was an afterthought at the end of meeting with LE early on after Roger;s disappearance.... And what was it in the Detective's notebook about his investigation that corroborated what Roger had written? I'd really like to know the answer to that question..I do not know of any notebook belonging to Roger that was ever taken/found by the original detective. And as far as I know, there never was one. I do not even remember the the length of time between when the assignment was given and when Roger ran away. Everybody seems to think the 2 issues (assignment/running away) were closely linked in time. I don’t think they were because I didn’t even think about the papers until almost at the end of my initial meeting with the detective. Had it been only a matter of a few days, I probably would have thought about them much sooner. So the assignment may not have even been an issue- something else may have been the causal factor. Since it is known that he went to a ski event, he seemed to be going about his usual business. But after returning, he runs away the next day. So what happened during the hours after his returned home from the ski event, and the next morning? Again, distancing and suggestion the family dynamic should be looked at.

He denies telling the family Roger was suicidal but as I read back there were several posters here who also picked up the
implication that Roger was suicidal. (And I believe that came from the non important paper that was turned over to LE
because Pash said he was Shocked at some of Roger's answers.)
I didn't bring those posts here but I did take screen shots to refresh my memory cause I knew I didn't just make it up.

I guess for me, after rereading some (many) posts...IF Roger was gay, or unhappy, or whatever it would seem not to matter in this
day and age to put the truth out there. If that happened then I truly believe this case could move forward and LE would have
more incentive to dig their heels in and do whatever it takes to resolve this case. Including digging up under that garage and searching for
supposed hidden tunnels under the school. I don't think for a minute the taxpayers of that county would have one problem with
their funds being used to get to the bottom of those loose ends and maybe even find Roger - if he is there to be found.

If Roger met foul play (which I believe he did) then only those involved would not want that to happen and be quite pleased.
It is a dark heart that can sit back and know a family out there is longing for answers about their missing loved one.
JMO. MOO. all that jazz.
 
More thoughts on Roger's case,

Without really knowing the specific details of the class assignment that Mr. Pash gave his students, which he said he could not reveal what Roger had written without prior approval from LE, I think the assignment could have had something to do with personal feelings, or the expression of hidden emotions. Roger may have written a personal response to something that had been bothering him for a long time. I wonder if Roger revealed that he was gay? If he did, and I am not saying that he did, I think that this would be the kind of thing that folks in a small town could ostracize him for very quickly. If such occurred, Roger may have known he HAD to flee the community, knowing that he would never be accepted there, ever again.

Suppose the word of Roger being gay got out, whether it was true or not, remember, in a small town like this, speculation has a way of becoming fact. Roger says nothing to his parents, or to his friends, so as not to upset them, but he knows that he can't stay around that community anymore because there are people likely within small towns like that, who would "never forgive Roger if he was gay." Therefore he has no choice but to leave. As painful as it is for his parents and friends knowing that he will be gone, the small isolated, probably deeply religious conservative community, could not handle Roger being gay. What's to stop him from just taking off, going off alone into the Rocky Mountains or something and just starting a new life?

It seems that Roger returned all his books, or put all his books in his locker when he told Mitch to "Hold it Open." It could be that he knew he was not coming back. Studying Mr. Pash's responses, and some of the others sheds new light on the case. I think that there would be enough open areas and wilderness, in Colorado, for Roger to go to a secluded area and commit suicide, if he chose to do that, or just take off to intentionally not be seen anymore. Maybe being a good student and champion athlete got to be too much for Roger. The whole Cederidge community could think " You can't be gay in this town." It seems that according to Mr. Pash, there were a lot of far lesser-know issues, that the tightly knit community made a big deal about. In such a community, consider the strong likelihood that suicide is certainly a touchy subject, but homosexuality in a community like Cederidge, Colorado, that's taboo.

Satch
 

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