Bosma Murder Trial 03.07.16 - Day 20

[brightii]

I'm wondering if all the blood spatter and gsr evidence is as important to the Crown's case from the perspective of proving which of the two accused shot TB?

Perhaps from the Crown's point of view, they need only show beyond all reasonable doubt that TB was killed in the truck and maybe they don't care whether it is from the front seat or the back seat? Maybe they're just forcing DM and/or MS to offer their own rebuttal to disprove that one or both are responsible which the Crown knows or expects neither accused can or will do?

I trust that there is a purpose to how the evidence is being presented by the Crown even though I don't understand yet how it will all come together, but it will, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Yendys]

If we're talking exit wound splatter then where did the bullet go? I know nothing of guns but if as the blood splatter would suggest TB was shot from behind would the bullet not have left a mark in the dash? Would a gun of this caliber have enough force to go through the seat, Tb and then enter the dash?

 

[brightii]

If we're talking exit wound splatter then where did the bullet go? I know nothing of guns but if as the blood splatter would suggest TB was shot from behind would the bullet not have left a mark in the dash? Would a gun of this caliber have enough force to go through the seat, Tb and then enter the dash?

I don't think the Crown has suggested at all where the shooter was by the blood spatter, IMO. It seems to me the shooting could have happened from many positions or angles.

ALL MOO.

 

[Yendys]

I don't think the Crown has suggested at all where the shooter was by the blood spatter, IMO. It seems to me the shooting could have happened from many positions or angles.

ALL MOO.

I agree, I think the only way we're going to know what actually happened is if DM or MS talk. However, IF the shooting was from behind would a gun of this caliber have enough force to enter the dash or not? If it does have enough force then should there not have been some sort of mark on the dash? I truly know nothing of guns so I'm asking.

 

[Pink Panther]

I have been following this case for a while and I still can't understand why, if they wanted the truck, why didn't they just steal it and take it to their chop shop and dismantle it? Why kill someone for it???

 

[brightii]

I agree, I think the only way we're going to know what actually happened is if DM or MS talk. However, IF the shooting was from behind would a gun of this caliber have enough force to enter the dash or not? If it does have enough force then should there not have been some sort of mark on the dash? I truly know nothing of guns so I'm asking.

I'm sorry I can't help by answering your question about guns because like you, I have no idea about them. I do think though that if the bullet made a mark anywhere inside or outside the vehicle the Crown would have raised this evidence by now, IMO, but I could be very wrong.

All MOO.

 

[Juballee]

I agree, I think the only way we're going to know what actually happened is if DM or MS talk. However, IF the shooting was from behind would a gun of this caliber have enough force to enter the dash or not? If it does have enough force then should there not have been some sort of mark on the dash? I truly know nothing of guns so I'm asking.

Does the testimony of the accused hold more weight than the blood spatter evidence expert? I don't think that they all have the same incentives to tell the truth, personally.

 

[Susanne]

RSBM

Originally Posted by SnooperDuper
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 30s30 seconds ago
Now mist spatter to left of glovebox on dash. Small spatters right into glove box. Most of those spots are unaltered.






Gunshot spatter - includes both forward spatter from the exit wound and back spatter from the entrance wound. Gunshot spatter will vary depending on the caliber of the gun, where the victim is struck, whether the bullet exits the body, distance between the victim and the gun and location of the victim relative to walls, floors and objects. Typically, forward spatter is a fine mist and back spatter is larger and fewer drops.


http://www.forensicsciencesimplified...rinciples.html

RSBM



RSBM

Sorry to mash up these different posts, I hope the quotes came out properly. (Forgive the grisly visuals)

It sounds like the blood spatter that was not altered by clean up supports the idea of a fine mist from forward spatter (coming from the exit wound) being found to the left of the glove box. In my opinion, DM would have had to have climbed into the backseat to have shot TB and left exit wound spatter to the left of the glovebox.

I think Dungey may have really screwed MS by asking if there was back spatter in the driver's area. I think back spatter would have been found in the unaltered areas like to the left of the glovebox, if the shot came from the front seat.

My opinion only.

I have always believed that it was MS who shot TB.
It just seems too difficult to me for someone driving an unfamiliar truck, to remove a gun from a holster (where else do you keep the gun?) and then accurately aim the gun at the intended victim in the passenger seat to shoot them. I can’t believe the passenger would not notice these actions and try some method to defend themselves, probably causing an accident. It’s a lot harder to shoot accurately than it appears.

Back to Igor and his truck test drive by DM and MS. I think that MS was going to shoot Igor just before he mentioned that he had military experience. Igor testified that DM whipped his head around so fast to look at MS in the backseat that DM must have hurt his neck. Igor was also quite nervous that DM was driving the truck on the highway and was not looking at the road for quite some time, too busy staring at MS. I think this was DM telling MS to abort the shooting. DM may have been worried that Igor was armed or could well cause a serious accident.

All this aside, I feel terrible that the Bosma family has to relive this horror day after day with this trial. I truly hope these 2 worthless creeps spend the rest of their lives in an 8’ x 6’. JMHO

 

[Wollander77]

I have always believed that it was MS who shot TB.
It just seems too difficult to me for someone driving an unfamiliar truck, to remove a gun from a holster (where else do you keep the gun?) and then accurately aim the gun at the intended victim in the passenger seat to shoot them. I can’t believe the passenger would not notice these actions and try some method to defend themselves, probably causing an accident. It’s a lot harder to shoot accurately than it appears.

My initial assumption at the start of trial was that the person who sat in the back had an easier chance of killing TB. I've changed my mind a bit since then - thanks to a few discussions that took place in this community.

Murdering TB was not as easy as the culprit(s) thought it would be if we hypothesize that a short struggle took place in the truck. It's pure speculation, but perhaps TB would've noticed either way if someone tried to shoot him from the back or side. A hand movement in his periphery or rustling from taking the gun from its holster (if they were smart enough to store it in one) could've alerted TB.

MS had the problem of shooting around the headrest / truck seat, potentially signalling TB that danger came from behind. DM would've faced the dilemma of driving the truck (presumably, if he hadn't decided to pull over first) and shooting TB at the same time (although in such a small space, perhaps it hadn't been a difficult thing to do). I'm inclined to believe that both had incapacitated TB in some way - ex. one held him in place with threats or distracted him with reckless driving, and the other pulled the trigger. JMO, for now.

We still don't know for sure who did what in that truck, and the expert today doesn't either. But I'd like to know how the toolbox factors into this mess and whether GSR can give us more insight into nature of the shooting (in terms of bullet trajectory, etc.). There's still more to come - though we've mined quite a bit of data this past week from tweets alone (you sleuthers rock) I trust the Crown will do its best to prove its case for TB - they've done a good, methodical job of filling in the puzzle so far, IMO.

 

[swedie]

Crowns Witness list to date March 7, 2016 (64)
Note: Not in any particular order.

Sharlene Bosma - TB's wife
Wayne De Boer - downstairs tenant of Bosmas. Outside with TB and SB when perps walked up driveway.
Jesse Kancer - TB's friend who was at TB's house the evening of May 6th, helped TB spruce up truck, picked up snowmobiles. Left before perps arrived.
Clark Kingswood - Owner of Kingswood Industrial Services found TB's cell phone cutting grass at Kemir.
Elizabeth Roswell - Employee with Kemira who cleaned and turned TB's cell phone on, called TB's home. Turn phone over to LE.
Det. Sgt. Greg Jackson - Took statement from IT. Tried to get finger/footprints from his truck. Also gave cell phone evidence.
Igor Tumanenko - Took DM and MS for a test drive in his Dodge May 5, 2013. He had it listed on-line. IDed DM's "ambition" tattoo and mentioned DM having a man purse.
Det. Randy Kovacsik - Retired Homicide Detective. Went to Kemira to retrieve TB's cell phone.
Dennis Araujo - Listed Dodge for sale on Autotrader. Call "Bate's" cell phone back and didn't get an answer.
Omar Palmili - Listed Dodge truck on Autotrader - was contacted by "Bate's" cell phone but slept in and missed call back.
Arthur Jennings - Employee of MA (approx. six months), SS's FIL. Took photos of TB's stolen truck and VIN in MA hangar, called CS Thursday, but did not reveal where TB's truck was until Friday, the day DM told him to get his stuff and leave the hangar.
Tony Diciano - Body shop owner DM called Wed. May 8, 2013, to have TB's truck painted from black to red and then DM cancelled next day.
Det. Sgt. Paul Hamilton - Went to MA to talk to DM May 10, 2013. ID tattoo.
Det. John Hamilton - Hamilton Police. Technological Crimes Unit accompanied Det. Paul Hamilton to the hangar. Noticed DM putting on satchel bag over his shoulder.
Officer Don Sauve - Hamilton Police. Handcuffed and arrested DM. Found $350 and three gloves in front pant pocket.
Const. Cory Weick - Officer who responded to a call in Kleinburg "suspicious trailer" in MB's driveway. Entered the trailer to check for TB and get VIN.
Const. Mark Levangi - York regional police. Also responded to a call in Kleinburg "suspicious trailer."
Officer Jennifer Granatier - Followed CN and retrieve drinking straw "cast off" evidence.
Officer Steve Lassalin - Attempted to get video surveillance footage from Mobile Tech store in Etobicoke from when phone was sold to "Lucas Bate." No video going back that far for the police to obtain.
Sal Iaccio - Senior Corporate Security Analyst with Wind Mobile. Receiving requests from Hamilton police for phone records.
Danielle Fortier - Rogers Communications employee testified, gave cell phone towers/pings evidence.
Phillip Wilkerson - OPP operational intelligence analyst gave testimony about cell phones, pings/towers.
Rick Bullman - neighbor of Bosmas. Walking his dog and saw two vehicles pull out of field May 6, 2013, around 9pm.
Det. Randy Kovacsik - Retired Hamilton Police retrieved TB's phone from Elizabeth Roswell at Kemira.
Frank Cianfarani - MB neighour. Reporter came to his home on May 11, 2013, showing him photo of MB's house. Both knew DM was arrested and knew MB was DM's mother. After reporter left, FC called LE about DM's trailer in MB's driveway.
Gian Luca Consiglio - MB's neighbour. Late Thurs. night/early Fri. morning saw "bright headlights" in his bedroom while trying to sleep. Lights coming from truck, coming or going from MB's driveway.
Det. Brent Gibson - Hamilton Police vice and drug unit assisted homicide branch. Put padlock and seal on DM's trailer before it left Kleinburg. Canvassed neighbourhood in search of video evidence. Watched video in neighbour's basement then and there.
Officer Erik Lauridsen - seized video from resident in the Kleinsburg. Video shows trailer being towed by truck, with lights on top of cab.
Det. Constable Laura McLellan - Halton Police. Identification officer. Took 666 evidence photos of TB's truck and DM's trailer.
Det. Rob Felski - Halton Police. Fingerprint Expert. Took DM's thumbprint from rear view mirror of TB's truck.
Officer Andrew Gordon - Niagara Regional Police search DM's Yukon. Found TB's truck key on DM's key ring.
Colleen O’Rourke - Halton Police. Fingerprint Expert who retrieve DM's fingerprint from driver's side door of TB's truck.
Chaz Main - Dirt bike rider. Main's friend's father owned property next to DM's farmland property.
Sgt. Ben Adam - Hamilton police. Came upon Main dirt biking and asked if unusual activity in the area. Main mentioned incinerator to Sgt. Adam. Sgt. Adam took Main in car to area of incinerator.
Sgt. Philip Peckford - Helped with the investigation on the Ayr farm.
Sgt. Annette Huys - Forensics officer who was at the Ayr farm. Looked into incinerator and saw remains, called Dr. Rogers, anthropologist.
Dr. Tracy Rogers - Forensic Anthropologist. Worked days retrieving remains from incinerator. She also worked on Picton case 2002/03.
Evan Snider - Leased farmland in Ayr, from DM. Noticed incinerator May 13, 2013.
Armin Seibert - Land owner next to the Millard farm. Tues. 7th, or Wed. 8th, week of May 11, 2013, saw flashlights bouncing off of silos around 11/11:30pm, while bringing in his horses.
Steven Henhoeffer - May 7th or 8th, While milking cows he saw smoke coming from the Millard farm about 6am.
Jason McGrath - friend of Snider's son hunted on the property. Arrangement with Evan Snider to go on the property. Hunted on farmland May 4, 2013.
Brian Franklin - Cousin to Jason McGarth, friend of Snider's son, also hunted on farmland.
Darryl Denny - Chief Building Official May 2013, building application submitted for shop to be built on DM's farmland. Signature on application was M. Burns.
William Penner - Worked for Tri-Star in Manitoba. Sold SS "The Eliminator" for MA June 13, 2012, for $15,424.50.
Tim Cook - operates a company Eco Concepts (Georgia) building incinerators for the agriculture industry.
Officer Ryan Walker - Hamilton police. Took photos and TB's toothbrush from Bosma's home.
Dr. William Barlow - Forensic Dentistry. Tried to extract DNA from single tooth found in incinerator, N/A due to extensive heat.
Det. Const. Andrew Gordon - Niagara Regional Police. Exam and collected evidence from DM's Yukon: keys, debit/credit cards, duffel bag with file folder containing incinerator invoice and glove.
Officer Lauren Troubridge - Hamilton Police. Followed the DM's trailer with TB's truck from Hamilton to an OPP forensics lab in Tillsonburg on May 14, 2013. Trailer doors opened and box flew out, later retrieved.
Const. Ryan Tocher - Hamilton Police homicide unit. Took TB's truck key to Tillsonburg, pushed remote, door unlocked, broke seal driver's side door.
Dr. John Fernandes - Expert forensic pathology. Has done over 100 homicide autopsies. Total weigh of TB's remains 503 grams.
Det. Const. Mark Wilson - Hamilton police. Sent to retrieve DVR from CN's house.
Det. Barry Stoltz - Retrieved video from Super Sucker Inc. in Ancaster.
James Stieva - Director of Marketing and Communications for Super Sucker.
Graham Dykeman - Outside sales rep, testified that he had swung by the MA's hangar on May 7, 2013, a “cold call” but the door was locked and nobody was there. He left.
Jason Agnew - Napa Auto Parts employee. SS ordered windshield removal kit May 8th and "roll off discs" May 9th, 2013.
Sgt. Stuart Oxley - Hamilton police officer. Surveilled DM. Walked up to driver's side with gun drawn on DM. Also surveilled Smich for 5 or 6 days in May. Took photographs, collect cigarette butt tossed by MS. Arrested MS May 22, 2013, will walking with his girlfriend MM.
Lisa Williams - Self taught bookkeeper for MA.
James Sloots - Forensic Biologist with CFScience. Wrote reports on DNA evidence, examined TB's truck, Eliminator and gloves.
Det. George Higgins - Hamilton police. Surveilled Millard driving in his Yukon. Also serveilled MS, took photos.
Officer Mario Rizzo - Hamilton police assigned to the guns and weapons enforcement unit. Searched MS's bedroom.
Jim Falconer - Retired OPP Technical Crime Unit. Qualified expert in computer forensics and data recovery. Retrieved information from computers found in DM's house.
David Banks - Retired OPP Identification Officer. Examined TB's Dodge. Blood and GSR collected. Sachak: "excited to return to Hamilton from Florida?" Banks: "It had to be done." Took notes and worked with Det. Constable Laura McLellan.
Sgt. Robert Jones - Waterloo police. Expert in blood spatter. Blood on inside and outside including undercarriage of TB's truck. Evidence of cleaning.

 

[MsSherlock]

Crowns Witness list to date March 7, 2016 (64)
Note: Not in any particular order.

Sharlene Bosma - TB's wife
Wayne De Boer - downstairs tenant of Bosmas. Outside with TB and SB when perps walked up driveway.
Jesse Kancer - TB's friend who was at TB's house the evening of May 6th, helped TB spruce up truck, picked up snowmobiles. Left before perps arrived.
Clark Kingswood - Owner of Kingswood Industrial Services found TB's cell phone cutting grass at Kemir.
Elizabeth Roswell - Employee with Kemira who cleaned and turned TB's cell phone on, called TB's home. Turn phone over to LE.
Det. Sgt. Greg Jackson - Took statement from IT. Tried to get finger/footprints from his truck. Also gave cell phone evidence.
Igor Tumanenko - Took DM and MS for a test drive in his Dodge May 5, 2013. He had it listed on-line. IDed DM's "ambition" tattoo and mentioned DM having a man purse.
Det. Randy Kovacsik - Retired Homicide Detective. Went to Kemira to retrieve TB's cell phone.
Dennis Araujo - Listed Dodge for sale on Autotrader. Call "Bate's" cell phone back and didn't get an answer.
Omar Palmili - Listed Dodge truck on Autotrader - was contacted by "Bate's" cell phone but slept in and missed call back.
Arthur Jennings - Employee of MA (approx. six months), SS's FIL. Took photos of TB's stolen truck and VIN in MA hangar, called CS Thursday, but did not reveal where TB's truck was until Friday, the day DM told him to get his stuff and leave the hangar.
Tony Diciano - Body shop owner DM called Wed. May 8, 2013, to have TB's truck painted from black to red and then DM cancelled next day.
Det. Sgt. Paul Hamilton - Went to MA to talk to DM May 10, 2013. ID tattoo.
Det. John Hamilton - Hamilton Police. Technological Crimes Unit accompanied Det. Paul Hamilton to the hangar. Noticed DM putting on satchel bag over his shoulder.
Officer Don Sauve - Hamilton Police. Handcuffed and arrested DM. Found $350 and three gloves in front pant pocket.
Const. Cory Weick - Officer who responded to a call in Kleinburg "suspicious trailer" in MB's driveway. Entered the trailer to check for TB and get VIN.
Const. Mark Levangi - York regional police. Also responded to a call in Kleinburg "suspicious trailer."
Officer Jennifer Granatier - Followed CN and retrieve drinking straw "cast off" evidence.
Officer Steve Lassalin - Attempted to get video surveillance footage from Mobile Tech store in Etobicoke from when phone was sold to "Lucas Bate." No video going back that far for the police to obtain.
Sal Iaccio - Senior Corporate Security Analyst with Wind Mobile. Receiving requests from Hamilton police for phone records.
Danielle Fortier - Rogers Communications employee testified, gave cell phone towers/pings evidence.
Phillip Wilkerson - OPP operational intelligence analyst gave testimony about cell phones, pings/towers.
Rick Bullman - neighbor of Bosmas. Walking his dog and saw two vehicles pull out of field May 6, 2013, around 9pm.
Det. Randy Kovacsik - Retired Hamilton Police retrieved TB's phone from Elizabeth Roswell at Kemira.
Frank Cianfarani - MB neighour. Reporter came to his home on May 11, 2013, showing him photo of MB's house. Both knew DM was arrested and knew MB was DM's mother. After reporter left, FC called LE about DM's trailer in MB's driveway.
Gian Luca Consiglio - MB's neighbour. Late Thurs. night/early Fri. morning saw "bright headlights" in his bedroom while trying to sleep. Lights coming from truck, coming or going from MB's driveway.
Det. Brent Gibson - Hamilton Police vice and drug unit assisted homicide branch. Put padlock and seal on DM's trailer before it left Kleinburg. Canvassed neighbourhood in search of video evidence. Watched video in neighbour's basement then and there.
Officer Erik Lauridsen - seized video from resident in the Kleinsburg. Video shows trailer being towed by truck, with lights on top of cab.
Det. Constable Laura McLellan - Halton Police. Identification officer. Took 666 evidence photos of TB's truck and DM's trailer.
Det. Rob Felski - Halton Police. Fingerprint Expert. Took DM's thumbprint from rear view mirror of TB's truck.
Officer Andrew Gordon - Niagara Regional Police search DM's Yukon. Found TB's truck key on DM's key ring.
Colleen O’Rourke - Halton Police. Fingerprint Expert who retrieve DM's fingerprint from driver's side door of TB's truck.
Chaz Main - Dirt bike rider. Main's friend's father owned property next to DM's farmland property.
Sgt. Ben Adam - Hamilton police. Came upon Main dirt biking and asked if unusual activity in the area. Main mentioned incinerator to Sgt. Adam. Sgt. Adam took Main in car to area of incinerator.
Sgt. Philip Peckford - Helped with the investigation on the Ayr farm.
Sgt. Annette Huys - Forensics officer who was at the Ayr farm. Looked into incinerator and saw remains, called Dr. Rogers, anthropologist.
Dr. Tracy Rogers - Forensic Anthropologist. Worked days retrieving remains from incinerator. She also worked on Picton case 2002/03.
Evan Snider - Leased farmland in Ayr, from DM. Noticed incinerator May 13, 2013.
Armin Seibert - Land owner next to the Millard farm. Tues. 7th, or Wed. 8th, week of May 11, 2013, saw flashlights bouncing off of silos around 11/11:30pm, while bringing in his horses.
Steven Henhoeffer - May 7th or 8th, While milking cows he saw smoke coming from the Millard farm about 6am.
Jason McGrath - friend of Snider's son hunted on the property. Arrangement with Evan Snider to go on the property. Hunted on farmland May 4, 2013.
Brian Franklin - Cousin to Jason McGarth, friend of Snider's son, also hunted on farmland.
Darryl Denny - Chief Building Official May 2013, building application submitted for shop to be built on DM's farmland. Signature on application was M. Burns.
William Penner - Worked for Tri-Star in Manitoba. Sold SS "The Eliminator" for MA June 13, 2012, for $15,424.50.
Tim Cook - operates a company Eco Concepts (Georgia) building incinerators for the agriculture industry.
Officer Ryan Walker - Hamilton police. Took photos and TB's toothbrush from Bosma's home.
Dr. William Barlow - Forensic Dentistry. Tried to extract DNA from single tooth found in incinerator, N/A due to extensive heat.
Det. Const. Andrew Gordon - Niagara Regional Police. Exam and collected evidence from DM's Yukon: keys, debit/credit cards, duffel bag with file folder containing incinerator invoice and glove.
Officer Lauren Troubridge - Hamilton Police. Followed the DM's trailer with TB's truck from Hamilton to an OPP forensics lab in Tillsonburg on May 14, 2013. Trailer doors opened and box flew out, later retrieved.
Const. Ryan Tocher - Hamilton Police homicide unit. Took TB's truck key to Tillsonburg, pushed remote, door unlocked, broke seal driver's side door.
Dr. John Fernandes - Expert forensic pathology. Has done over 100 homicide autopsies. Total weigh of TB's remains 503 grams.
Det. Const. Mark Wilson - Hamilton police. Sent to retrieve DVR from CN's house.
Det. Barry Stoltz - Retrieved video from Super Sucker Inc. in Ancaster.
James Stieva - Director of Marketing and Communications for Super Sucker.
Graham Dykeman - Outside sales rep, testified that he had swung by the MA's hangar on May 7, 2013, a “cold call” but the door was locked and nobody was there. He left.
Jason Agnew - Napa Auto Parts employee. SS ordered windshield removal kit May 8th and "roll off discs" May 9th, 2013.
Sgt. Stuart Oxley - Hamilton police officer. Surveilled DM. Walked up to driver's side with gun drawn on DM. Also surveilled Smich for 5 or 6 days in May. Took photographs, collect cigarette butt tossed by MS. Arrested MS May 22, 2013, will walking with his girlfriend MM.
Lisa Williams - Self taught bookkeeper for MA.
James Sloots - Forensic Biologist with CFScience. Wrote reports on DNA evidence, examined TB's truck, Eliminator and gloves.
Det. George Higgins - Hamilton police. Surveilled Millard driving in his Yukon. Also serveilled MS, took photos.
Officer Mario Rizzo - Hamilton police assigned to the guns and weapons enforcement unit. Searched MS's bedroom.
Jim Falconer - Retired OPP Technical Crime Unit. Qualified expert in computer forensics and data recovery. Retrieved information from computers found in DM's house.
David Banks - Retired OPP Identification Officer. Examined TB's Dodge. Blood and GSR collected. Sachak: "excited to return to Hamilton from Florida?" Banks: "It had to be done." Took notes and worked with Det. Constable Laura McLellan.
Sgt. Robert Jones - Waterloo police. Expert in blood spatter. Blood on inside and outside including undercarriage of TB's truck. Evidence of cleaning.

Thanks for that list Swedie!!! Seeing a list like this really hits home how organized and efficient the Crown has been. Certainly not leaving any stone unturned.

 

[andreww]

I think it's pointless to speculate if the shot came from the front or back of the truck. The fact that TB was actually shot inside the truck indicates that something went wrong and that there was likely a struggle. In a situation like this it is easy to imagine Smich climbing in to the front to assist.

It would make more sense that the driver would have the gun though as the evidence wouldn't indicate that TB tried to get in to the back seat to wrestle for the gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think it's pointless to speculate if the shot came from the front or back of the truck. The fact that TB was actually shot inside the truck indicates that something went wrong and that there was likely a struggle. In a situation like this it is easy to imagine Smich climbing in to the front to assist.

It would make more sense that the driver would have the gun though as the evidence wouldn't indicate that TB tried to get in to the back seat to wrestle for the gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, it may be pointless but it's one more unanswered question in this case and there are too many already. Sleuthing to get to the truth is what we all do here, so it's perfectly natural to want to know who actually shot Tim.

Based on the Crown's opening statement, with all of their witnesses, experts and testimony, I suspect they've never been able to come up with the answer either, since they intend to prove they're BOTH guilty of this crime. Some have speculated that the only way we'd ever really know is if one of them testified - but unless one of them just came out and said "it was me, I shot him" I don't think I'd believe anything either of them had to say anyway. Confessing to being the actual shooter would not gain either of them any favors so I won't hold my breath waiting for a confession.

Realistically, I can see it in my head, how easy it would be for DM to have simply pulled over and shot him. A shot from the back seat would have been a bit more tricky but it certainly could have happened that way too. I suspect their respective counsels will point the finger at each other and play on all the very same things we've discussed here for the last 3 years.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7 Min.vor 7 Minuten
Unsure if the Tim #Bosma murder trial is on today. Things ended abruptly yesterday when a juror fell ill, so waiting for an update.

 

[andreww]

Well, it may be pointless but it's one more unanswered question in this case and there are too many already. Sleuthing to get to the truth is what we all do here, so it's perfectly natural to want to know who actually shot Tim.

Based on the Crown's opening statement, with all of their witnesses, experts and testimony, I suspect they've never been able to come up with the answer either, since they intend to prove they're BOTH guilty of this crime. Some have speculated that the only way we'd ever really know is if one of them testified - but unless one of them just came out and said "it was me, I shot him" I don't think I'd believe anything either of them had to say anyway. Confessing to being the actual shooter would not gain either of them any favors so I won't hold my breath waiting for a confession.

Realistically, I can see it in my head, how easy it would be for DM to have simply pulled over and shot him. A shot from the back seat would have been a bit more tricky but it certainly could have happened that way too. I suspect their respective counsels will point the finger at each other and play on all the very same things we've discussed here for the last 3 years.

BBM, thats you first mistake. If the object is to steal the truck, why shoot TB inside of it? That obviously wasn't the plan. That being said, the question becomes, "what was the plan?" and "what happened to change that plan".

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Curious what expression is on the faces of accused now? during this recent evidence about cleanup and potential shooter?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1 Std.Vor 1 Stunde
No reaction

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM, thats you first mistake. If the object is to steal the truck, why shoot TB inside of it? That obviously wasn't the plan. That being said, the question becomes, "what was the plan?" and "what happened to change that plan".

The thing is, none of us really know WHAT the plan entailed. We do know they planned to steal a truck, because they told people beforehand that's exactly what they were going to do. We also know they brought a gun. We also know Tim died IN that truck. We don't know if (whoever shot him) they planned to do that as well. Maybe they didn't realize what a mess it would make?

Unless both of them were given some kind of truth serum, we may never know why they brought a gun or how they thought they were simply going to steal a truck (with the owner sitting inside of it on a test drive), or why they shot Tim while sitting IN the truck.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I also was thinking that DM/MS wouldn't have messed up their wonderful cheap stolen truck if there hadn't happened something unexpected. Certainly TB from the outset had a bad feeling because of the behavior of the two accused (he didn't want to accompany the two on their test drive). TB said something or did something, I believe, and DM/MS got "panic". So, because of the gun (2 guns?) was/were available one of them or both (?) shot.
Not knowing much about vehicles, I think the middle front seat was easily to move/fold? IF MS is a left hander he had perhaps relatively easy access to TB on the front passenger seat. When MS folded up the middle seat TB might have moved to the left in his direction because of fear and intuition, was shot and moved just barely to his right, away from danger.
Maybe DM shot, maybe DM shot in addition to MS' shooting.
I would like to know how it all happened to empathize more with the innocent young nice TB.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Susan Clairmont @susanclairmont
Word from courthouse staff: trial is on today. Juror had dizzy spell yesterday. Ambulance called, juror refused to go to hospital. #Bosma

 

[andreww]

The thing is, none of us really know WHAT the plan entailed. We do know they planned to steal a truck, because they told people beforehand that's exactly what they were going to do. We also know they brought a gun. We also know Tim died IN that truck. We don't know if (whoever shot him) they planned to do that as well. Maybe they didn't realize what a mess it would make?

Unless both of them were given some kind of truth serum, we may never know why they brought a gun or how they thought they were simply going to steal a truck (with the owner sitting inside of it on a test drive), or why they shot Tim while sitting IN the truck.

BBM. Could you elaborate on that? Who did they tell?