Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion here until the trial resumes Monday morning, April 4.

Special note to any Websleuths members who may attend court:

Whatever you hear in the courtroom that is being discussed outside the presence of the jury is NOT to be brought to the threads.


As always, please be respectful and remember:

The Rules

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Your Ignore List and You


:tyou:

 

[Sillybilly]

:rose: Remembering Tim Bosma and waiting for Justice :rose:

National Post



By Molly Hayes

TIM AND HIS DAUGHTER
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family​

 

[Sillybilly]

Tim Bosma and his baby daughter
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family


Tim and Sharlene Bosma's wedding pic displayed at the memorial for Tim
from: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6258681-clairmont-sharlene-bosma-brings-loving-laughter-to-court/

 

[Arnie M]

.

Anyone know for sure who is who in this video ??

.
[video=youtube;oavEKN_Iw6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavEKN_Iw6I[/video]

.

The guy in the green T-Shirt acts like he would be the mechanic (Andrew Michalski) yet he has been identified as Shane Schlatman in other pictures.

There is also a picture of SS leaving the court and he looks more like the guy on the right in the video http://www.newspaperpost.com/tag/shane-schlatman/

.

 

[jash]

.

Anyone know for sure who is who in this video ??

.
<snip>
.

The guy in the green T-Shirt acts like he would be the mechanic (Andrew Michalski) yet he has been identified as Shane Schlatman in other pictures.

There is also a picture of SS leaving the court and he looks more like the guy on the right in the video <snip>

.

SS is the mechanic, and that's him in the green shirt (and leaving court).

AM was DM's roommate/friend. AM is not physically big like SS (it looks like SS has actually lost weight -- stress maybe).

Here's a photo of SS with DM:

 

[Inspector_North]

.

Anyone know for sure who is who in this video ??



The guy in the green T-Shirt acts like he would be the mechanic (Andrew Michalski) yet he has been identified as Shane Schlatman in other pictures.

There is also a picture of SS leaving the court and he looks more like the guy on the right in the video http://www.newspaperpost.com/tag/shane-schlatman/

.

AM is the roommate of DM, and alternate driver in the Mexico race
SS is the mechanic

I believe the identification in the video is correct, SS is the one with the green shirt.

 

[Inspector_North]

IMO, NS is only proving how difficult it is to show that DM doesn't have a cash flow problem.

The text to LW_2 about his father's accountants failing him. And that he needed to seek out a high interest rate loan to close the real estate deal is a better barometer. Proving that much of his assets didn't have the equity needed.

Yes, he supposedly paid cash for the farm, but how did that tie into the bigger obligation picture?

If DM defense does not bring in an expert to clarify the DM and Millardair cash situation, it will be hard to convince many of us there was not a cash flow problem.

I also keep going back to DM's interview with the The Star, and how he emphasized he was not someone who flashed his wealth.

"&#8220;I shop at Costco. I don&#8217;t buy expensive clothes. I&#8217;m a bargain hunter. I have one Hugo Boss suit, he says.""

Very different from the picture NS attempted to portray yesterday. $15,000/month on supplies for mainly DM 'things' will get you a lot of stuff at Costco.

I guess it may have been like father like son.

&#8220;He was frugal with himself and generous to others"

If he had sufficient equity in his assets, the only reason I can think of for a high interest rate loan is that the Condo was a high risk, which I believe it was not.

Maybe someone familiar with this type of situation can explain why a high a interest rate loan when DM is portrayed to have assets worth much more than the loan.


MOO

 

[Juballee]

IMO, NS is only proving how difficult it is to show that DM doesn't have a cash flow problem.

The text to LW_2 about his father's accountants failing him. And that he needed to seek out a high interest rate loan to close the real estate deal is a better barometer. Proving that much of his assets didn't have the equity needed.

Yes, he supposedly paid cash for the farm, but how did that tie into the bigger obligation picture?

If DM defense does not bring in an expert to clarify the DM and Millardair cash situation, it will be hard to convince many of us there was not a cash flow problem.

I also keep going back to DM's interview with the The Star, and how he emphasized he was not someone who flashed his wealth.

"&#8220;I shop at Costco. I don&#8217;t buy expensive clothes. I&#8217;m a bargain hunter. I have one Hugo Boss suit, he says.""

Very different from the picture NS attempted to portray yesterday. $15,000/month on supplies for mainly DM 'things' will get you a lot of stuff at Costco.

I guess it may have been like father like son.

&#8220;He was frugal with himself and generous to others"

If he had sufficient equity in his assets, the only reason I can think of for a high interest rate loan is that the Condo was a high risk, which I believe it was not.

Maybe someone familiar with this type of situation can explain why a high a interest rate loan when DM is portrayed to have assets worth much more than the loan.


MOO

Anyone who who has multiple properties doesn't get the same low rates that people who are only buying their only property get. When you own more than one property, you can only claim one as your primary residence. The other residences are considered investment properties, which naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment. Perhaps if it had been his primary residence, he would have gotten the lower average rate at that time, but the bank likely already knew that it was on the market. Keep in mind, even if it was extremely high interest rates, it would have only been for a month or two until the condo's new owner took possession.

Not to sound like a broken record, but all that was also explained in court that day, but not tweeted about. It's weird how they only print the stuff that looks bad, but never the explanation for it that makes it look normal. It's almost like its being sensationalized.

 

[matou]

I'm so happy we have people who understand real estate posting on here because I sure don't understand all the nuances of this topic.

 

[Juballee]

In the last thread I heard a lot of mention of how hard it would be to make money cremating pets at $20 each. I'm not sure where some people are getting their pets cremated, but the last time I had to do it, it cost almost $500 by the time I got the little urn back. Perhaps I should have shopped around, but I just went with whoever my vet recommended.

I looked one company up to see if I could see their price list, and the price I paid wasn't that far off.

http://www.petsatpeace.ca/Pricing_for_website_page.pdf

According to their price list it costs over $200 just for a budgie or hamster. And a private cremation with the family present (to make sure you get your own pets remains back?) starts at over $500. Each.

As an aside, there is an interesting Freakenomics podcast that discusses pet cremation at length, and one of the statistics that they mention is that most people who get their pets cremated, even when specifically paying for individual cremation, often end up with an assortment of ashes from different animals in their urn.

I could see this service being valuable to people whose pets died at home, and who may not have a property where they can bury their deceased pets.

All my opinion only.

 

[Inspector_North]

Anyone who who has multiple properties doesn't get the same low rates that people who are only buying their only property get. When you own more than one property, you can only claim one as your primary residence. The other residences are considered investment properties, which naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment. Perhaps if it had been his primary residence, he would have gotten the lower average rate at that time, but the bank likely already knew that it was on the market. Keep in mind, even if it was extremely high interest rates, it would have only been for a month or two until the condo's new owner took possession.

Not to sound like a broken record, but all that was also explained in court that day, but not tweeted about. It's weird how they only print the stuff that looks bad, but never the explanation for it that makes it look normal. It's almost like its being sensationalized.

Thanks, that helps explain his cash flow problem. http://www.ratehub.ca/investment-property

"Investment Property Mortgage Rates

So long as you meet the qualification criteria and can make at least the minimum down payment on your investment property, you should qualify for the same mortgage rates and terms as you see on our site &#8211; these include fixed, variable and adjustable rate mortgages."

 

[Juballee]

Thanks, that helps explain his cash flow problem. http://www.ratehub.ca/investment-property

"Investment Property Mortgage Rates

So long as you meet the qualification criteria and can make at least the minimum down payment on your investment property, you should qualify for the same mortgage rates and terms as you see on our site &#8211; these include fixed, variable and adjustable rate mortgages."

Also from that site:

• It's also important to note that a number of financial institutions don&#8217;t offer investment property mortgage products.

It might be of note that most lenders expect a mortgage contract to last at least a year or more, and few are willing to give that kind of loan short term without much higher interest rates. Some research has pulled up the term Bridge Loan for this kind of short term mortgage. This wiki explains that they usually come with much higher interest rates.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_loan

I hope that helps.

 

[Variant]

Anyone who who has multiple properties doesn't get the same low rates that people who are only buying their only property get. When you own more than one property, you can only claim one as your primary residence. The other residences are considered investment properties, which naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment. Perhaps if it had been his primary residence, he would have gotten the lower average rate at that time, but the bank likely already knew that it was on the market. Keep in mind, even if it was extremely high interest rates, it would have only been for a month or two until the condo's new owner took possession.

Not to sound like a broken record, but all that was also explained in court that day, but not tweeted about. It's weird how they only print the stuff that looks bad, but never the explanation for it that makes it look normal. It's almost like its being sensationalized.

Investment properties don't "naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment ".

I own several properties. I just bought and mortgaged another one with almost no down payment. My interest rate is lower than other people I know who bought and mortgaged their principal residence because I have a better established and proven reliable credit and repayment history.

The bank looked carefully at all of my assets and liabilities and valued my net worth and projected future revenue streams in determining the rate that they were prepared to offer me, which is lower than the posted rates.

A relative recently remortgaged her house and could only get a rate several points higher than posted because of limited assets and credit history.

In summary, the rate that a lending institution offers you, relative to others in the market, is determined by your financial credibility.

 

[Juballee]

Investment properties don't "naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment ".

I own several properties. I just bought and mortgaged another one with almost no down payment. My interest rate is lower than other people I know who bought and mortgaged their principal residence because I have a better established and proven reliable credit and repayment history.

The bank looked carefully at all of my assets and liabilities and valued my net worth and projected future revenue streams in determining the rate that they were prepared to offer me, which is lower than the posted rates.

A relative recently remortgaged her house and could only get a rate several points higher than posted because of limited assets and credit history.

In summary, the rate that a lending institution offers you, relative to others in the market, is determined by your financial credibility.

Was your loan a bridge mortgage or for longer than a couple of months? That could also greatly affect the rate.

I also own several properties and the rates for those loans depended more on how much down payment I was giving and how long I wanted the loan for. I have had to get bridge financing before and I remember the rates being so high that I couldn't believe it and hardly thought it worth it. But in situations like those, the lenders know you are in a bind and charge you greatly for it, not the average rate.

My opinion only.

 

[Susanne]

Investment properties don't "naturally carry a higher interest rate and require a higher downpayment ".

I own several properties. I just bought and mortgaged another one with almost no down payment. My interest rate is lower than other people I know who bought and mortgaged their principal residence because I have a better established and proven reliable credit and repayment history.

The bank looked carefully at all of my assets and liabilities and valued my net worth and projected future revenue streams in determining the rate that they were prepared to offer me, which is lower than the posted rates.

A relative recently remortgaged her house and could only get a rate several points higher than posted because of limited assets and credit history.

In summary, the rate that a lending institution offers you, relative to others in the market, is determined by your financial credibility.

I have to second this. I recently refinanced my rental properties and my principal residence and got identical very low interest rates for all. It may be in part because I have owned several properties for many years but I can tell you.....you can't give me an interest rate low enough to be a landlord again after these are gone. <S>

 

[Variant]

Was your loan a bridge mortgage or for longer than a couple of months? That could also greatly affect the rate.

I also own several properties and the rates for those loans depended more on how much down payment I was giving and how long I wanted the loan for. I have had to get bridge financing before and I remember the rates being so high that I couldn't believe it and hardly thought it worth it. But in situations like those, the lenders know you are in a bind and charge you greatly for it, not the average rate.

My opinion only.

If one is truly wealthy, that is, owns easily liquefiable assets or other mortgageable properties, one doesn't take out high interest short term mortgages or bridge loans on a property they intend to flip within a couple of years, they buy it using the collateral they already have, converted to cash.

When you work with a cash pool it is easy and less costly to make a quick flip because there are no mortgages or liens to clear.

DM's actions indicate that he was cash poor, or at least bad at property investment even after a few years of trying.

 

[Juballee]

I have to second this. I recently refinanced my rental properties and my principal residence and got identical very low interest rates for all. It may be in part because I have owned several properties for many years but I can tell you.....you can't give me an interest rate low enough to be a landlord again after these are gone. <S>

I think that refinancing is different than getting a bridge loan mortgage. As well, rental investment properties would require different financing than a quick flip investment property, just as commercial investments properties would require different financing, I would think.

Institutions lend money with an expectation of getting a certain return on their investment. Money lent for a long term has a contract to pay them a certain amount of interest that may seem small but add up over time. When the money is only loaned for a considerably much shorter amount of time, a higher interest rate makes it worthwhile to the lender, otherwise there would be little incentive to loan short term. It is like the penalties for paying off a loan early, the earlier you pay it off, the stiffer the financial penalty. They want you to hold the money longer to ensure their maximum profits, or else they find another way to take that money from you anyway. Paying higher than a 2% interest rate for a short term bridge mortgage doesn't sound that unusual to me in this context.

My opinion only.

 

[deugirtni]

Was it stated somewhere what the 'bridge mortgage' rate was on the Distillery condo?

 

[Kamille]

If one is truly wealthy, that is, owns easily liquefiable assets or other mortgageable properties, one doesn't take out high interest short term mortgages or bridge loans on a property they intend to flip within a couple of years, they buy it using the collateral they already have, converted to cash.

When you work with a cash pool it is easy and less costly to make a quick flip because there are no mortgages or liens to clear.

DM's actions indicate that he was cash poor, or at least bad at property investment even after a few years of trying.

Exactly. If DM had the cash flow to "pay cash for a $700,000 condo" as his original attorney seemed to like to propagate, he would not be getting into financing deals to pay for that property just to flip it. What possible gain could there be on that? Paying real estate and high financing fees to flip a property as soon as you purchase it doesn't seem like much of an investment to me. How much profit would have been gained on the condo from the original purchase price to justify these fees? Wouldn't it have been more profitable to him to have rented out the unit for a while until the entire building was completed and established? Why did he feel the need to unload it as soon as the builder required payment for it? Judging by the listing for it, which is no longer available online, it appeared that he listed it somewhere around the middle of April 2013. Once again...lots of liquidating and property movement seemed to already be starting in that month. And he himself texted about his troubles with his father's accountants that month.

I'm also curious about how long DM had access to the Distillery condo before the builder required payment? I understand he had JV working in it? So he was also paying someone to do contracting work on the unit? For what purpose would that be? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Kip]

I don't see how DM's cash flow is relevant. If he didn't have a cash flow problem, then he's just pure evil for killing Tim for his truck rather than buying or leasing one. If he did have cash flow problems, he's still evil for killing Tim for his truck. And stupid. If they had hatched a plan to steal a truck that didn't involve murder or assault, they'd be more likely to get away with it as LE typically doesn't put a lot of effort into finding stolen vehicles.