Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #8

New Posts

There are so many scenarios we've considered here and facts we've explored yet still there are things that remain unexamined. As I mentioned a couple of posts prior, cold water has a physiological effect on a live person and may provide clues via autopsy as to how Cheryl entered the culvert and how long she was alive in the water. It may as well show whether her body was submerged or not while she purportedly carried out an asphyxiation.

On the other hand something as simple as a photo may inspire understanding. Take a close look at this photo. Why would anyone crawl through the mud and brambles when they could easily walk down the little ramp formed by the culvert wall leaving no evidence behind?

:moo:
 
Han said:
There are so many scenarios we've considered here and facts we've explored yet still there are things that remain unexamined. As I mentioned a couple of posts prior, cold water has a physiological effect on a live person and may provide clues via autopsy as to how Cheryl entered the culvert and how long she was alive in the water. It may as well show whether her body was submerged or not while she purportedly carried out an asphyxiation.

On the other hand something as simple as a photo may inspire understanding. Take a close look at this photo. Why would anyone crawl through the mud and brambles when they could easily walk down the little ramp formed by the culvert wall leaving no evidence behind?

:moo:
Click to expand...

Looking at the image that you attached, in order to give scale to this culvert, investigators said that a 6 foot tall person could easily walk in the culvert, and the water was 2-3 feet deep. Although it looks like an easy ramp to walk down, I do recall reading that investigators were searching upstream of the culvert on the day that more evidence was collected, but I have been unable to find the link. The ramp area must be where her body was found.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90159
 
In this article outlining more details about Cheryl's death LE seems to indicate confusion as to how Cheryl entered the culvert.

Mine was just a suggestion of one method of entering the culvert that wouldn't leave disturbance.

http://www.heraldnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20160323/NEWS01/160329601&template=MobileArt

Brambles covering the eastside of the culvert had not been disturbed. There were no signs of disturbance to the ground along the west side of the culvert, Wilson said
Click to expand...

 
I had missed the link buried inside that HeraldNet article previously (hard to see the highlight), it links to a NIH article based on suicide cases in King County (adjacent to south of Snohomish county). Apologies if someone noted this before, but it seems quite relevant.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8947355

Here is the abstract (BBM):
Fifty-three suicides using plastic bags were identified in a review of cases within the jurisdiction of the King County Medical Examiner's Office, Seattle, Washington from 1984 to 1993. We found that this method was used at a greater frequency by individuals older than 50 in comparison with other methods. The most commonly identified stressor leading to the suicide in this population was failing health. The use of this method as a means of "self deliverance," as advocated by the Hemlock Society, could be inferred in only a small minority of cases where terminal illnesses were identified. This method may be preferred by those older than 50 years because of the ready availability of plastic bags and the relative nonviolence of the death. Analysis of the autopsy findings showed no specific features for this method of suicide. In particular, petechiae, which are often considered a marker of asphyxia, were present in only a small minority of cases (3%). Furthermore, the scene investigation rarely revealed specific features, other than the plastic bag in place. Thus, if the plastic bag were removed after death, the cause and manner of death would be obscure
 
ANZAC said:
I had missed the link buried inside that HeraldNet article previously (hard to see the highlight), it links to a NIH article based on suicide cases in King County (adjacent to south of Snohomish county). Apologies if someone noted this before, but it seems quite relevant.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8947355

Here is the abstract (BBM):
Fifty-three suicides using plastic bags were identified in a review of cases within the jurisdiction of the King County Medical Examiner's Office, Seattle, Washington from 1984 to 1993. We found that this method was used at a greater frequency by individuals older than 50 in comparison with other methods. The most commonly identified stressor leading to the suicide in this population was failing health. The use of this method as a means of "self deliverance," as advocated by the Hemlock Society, could be inferred in only a small minority of cases where terminal illnesses were identified. This method may be preferred by those older than 50 years because of the ready availability of plastic bags and the relative nonviolence of the death. Analysis of the autopsy findings showed no specific features for this method of suicide. In particular, petechiae, which are often considered a marker of asphyxia, were present in only a small minority of cases (3%). Furthermore, the scene investigation rarely revealed specific features, other than the plastic bag in place. Thus, if the plastic bag were removed after death, the cause and manner of death would be obscure
Click to expand...

Keeping it in context:

"The features of the scene investigation are summarized in Table 3.All of the suicide scenes were indoors with the exception of one outdoor scene that involved an 18-year-old male and a volatile inhalant. Forty-six (87%) of the suicides occurred in a home or apartment and the remainder occurred in motels/hotels, retirement centers, or nursing homes. Only one of the decedents was successfully resuscitated at the scene and later died in the hospital. One of the suicide attempts occurred in the decedent's room at a local hospital; he had been informed of the terminal nature of his illness shortly before the attempt. Thirty-one (58%) of the decedents were found in bed at the scene and one half were discovered by relatives. The bodies were well preserved in 44 cases (83%) and in variable states of decomposition in the others. Notes of suicidal intent were found in one half of the cases and other evidence of intent was found in 15 cases (28%). The decedents were in possession of Hemlock Society literature or were known to have been in contact with the Society in six cases (11%). Of those possessing Hemlock Society literature or having previous contact, two had been diagnosed with terminal illnesses. In total, eight decedents knew they had terminal illnesses; five had cancer and three, the acquired immune deficiency syndrome."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8947355
 
From the same article:

"In this series of cases, we were able to infer the use of plastic bags as a possible means of “self deliverance” from terminal illness, as defined by the Hemlock Society, in a small number of cases. Of these cases, contact with the Hemlock Society by the decedent was known in less than half. The stressor(s) leading to the suicide was more often than not readily apparent. Failing health of the decedent or spouse was the most commonly reported stressor. Neither this stressor nor any of the others specifically investigated, was exclusive to this method. Failing health as a stressor may be more commonly reported in those using plastic bags, in view of the demographic profile of our study population."​

In my understanding of this reference, Cheryl does not fall into the statistics because she was in a drainage ditch, we do not know of any terminal disease or failing health (although the family should be informed of that), there is no obvious stressor, there is no evidence of intent (note, etc.).
 
It looks as if the comments from Cheryl's mom regarding suicide have been removed from Celebrating Cheryl Deboer on FB. Wondering how long ago that was taken off? I just now noticed.
 
Terrace12 said:
It looks as if the comments from Cheryl's mom regarding suicide have been removed from Celebrating Cheryl Deboer on FB. Wondering how long ago that was taken off? I just now noticed.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I know I looked at them recently, maybe yesterday. IMO
 
Yes, could be interesting. Those comments have been up about three weeks.
 
I don't see them either....

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Stryker has not been on this site for a while, the family seems to have removed the comments, I have never thought Cheryl took her life because to me the whole thing just seemed so strange but now I am beginning to wonder. Hmmm
 
Terrace12 said:
Stryker has not been on this site for a while, the family seems to have removed the comments, I have never thought Cheryl took her life because to me the whole thing just seemed so strange but now I am beginning to wonder. Hmmm
Click to expand...
Are you beginning to wonder because you believe the family may be changing their opinion?
 
Han said:
Are you beginning to wonder because you believe the family may be changing their opinion?
Click to expand...

I think so yes. I am wondering if the family may have gotten some new information we don't know about.
 
Oh okay. Yes, could be. I didn't understand at first. Sorry.
 
As long as were guessing it could be the family found out they were right and didn't need to argue so vigorously anymore. So they took down the comments. You could look at it either way.
 
Han said:
As long as were guessing it could be the family found out they were right and didn't need to argue so vigorously anymore. So they took down the comments. You could look at it either way.
Click to expand...

Very true
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 207 more.
Total: 4,251 (members: 208, guests: 4,043)

Online statistics

Members online
208
Guests online
4,043
Total visitors
4,251
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
595,820
Messages
18,034,879
Members
229,788
Latest member
Displaced_Fey
Back
Top