Bosma Murder Trial 05.12.16 - Day 48

[Oreck]

Something everyone seem to have missed or is avoiding, including the prosecution and defense is how did DM and MS get TB into the Eliminator. It is near impossible
that DM could have stood on a slippery fender and put a body as heavy and as big as himself through a 18"x24" opening. The Eliminator was 5 ft wide so the distance from the right edge of the door to the left edge of the machine is 3ft 6 inch. A body would not fit well for one person to do.
Or maybe I wasn't supposed to go there.
MOO.

 

[canadiangirl]

Something everyone seem to have missed or is avoiding, including the prosecution and defense is how did DM and MS get TB into the Eliminator. It is near impossible
that DM could have stood on a slippery fender and put a body as heavy and as big as himself through a 18"x24" opening. The Eliminator was 5 ft wide so the distance from the right edge of the door to the left edge of the machine is 3ft 6 inch. A body would not fit well for one person to do.
Or maybe I wasn't supposed to go there.
MOO.

This is one of the "holes" I was referencing in MS testimony. IMO MS left this part out on purpose. Something I'm not overlooking

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[Just4TB]

Wednesday, MS gave a nearly convincing story for the jury that seemed to match the previously seen evidence. MS was on quite a sprint!!
I asked in a post on Wednesday, "Where's the gun?"

Thursday, the truth started catching up. Next week, I expect the truth to lap the lies, all the way to the finish line.

 

[Arnie M]

I wonder if the lawyers in this case are reading this website each day to see what public's perception is after a day's testimony.

Becha' they do , or have staff who monitor it ..... they could sort out the emotionalism's from the logical posts and it could serve as a pretend jury to give them an indication of how the case is going

 

[ArianeEmory]

Something everyone seem to have missed or is avoiding, including the prosecution and defense is how did DM and MS get TB into the Eliminator. It is near impossible
that DM could have stood on a slippery fender and put a body as heavy and as big as himself through a 18"x24" opening. The Eliminator was 5 ft wide so the distance from the right edge of the door to the left edge of the machine is 3ft 6 inch. A body would not fit well for one person to do.
Or maybe I wasn't supposed to go there.
MOO.

Actually, if you look at the time this testimony came in, it wasn't missed. Lots of people doubted MS's arm story/lie. Some people mentioned fireman's carries. Someone else mentioned the sheet. Someone else didn't think both of them together could do it, and theorized a block and tackle. Myself, I didn't bother posting it but I did wonder if the "cleaning" door could be used. It was large and didn't seem like there was anything stopping someone from loading there, provided it wasn't already ignited.

Sorry for graphic nature.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wonder if the lawyers in this case are reading this website each day to see what public's perception is after a day's testimony.

I think WS is pretty unique as a site on the internet where the case is closely followed and debated...it's almost like a focus group. For sure you could notice turning points, like AM's testimony that cut the debate here to a hush.

I think it would be a job for a law student on the team, sure.

 

[Stirner]

Speaking for myself, I've said about a hundred times during the trial that I'm terrible with the physical evidence--see my earlier satchel confusion--and the stuff about there being two guns was so vague that it just slipped my mind.

Well the '2' was a text DM sent to MH after MH asked 'is it (toolbox) full of guns??' But MH has testified that he did not think that DM meant there were 2 guns in the box, but suggested that DM might have texted him '2' to mean that he would be arriving in two minutes. I don't agree with MH, though. Both the text and MH's explanation are evidence, but it's up to each individual as to which is more plausible. As far as I recall the box was locked when MH had it and he never saw the inside, but he testified that every time he saw the toolbox on previous occasions there were only drugs in it.

 

[Claroon]

Actually, if you look at the time this testimony came in, it wasn't missed. Lots of people doubted MS's arm story/lie. Some people mentioned fireman's carries. Someone else mentioned the sheet. Someone else didn't think both of them together could do it, and theorized a block and tackle. Myself, I didn't bother posting it but I did wonder if the "cleaning" door could be used. It was large and didn't seem like there was anything stopping someone from loading there, provided it wasn't already ignited.

Sorry for graphic nature.

I think if a person wants to do it badly enough they find a way. I'm thinking of the forensics specialist standing in there--it's doable.Also mentioned was if he was in the back of the truck on the ramp and the incinerator was below. IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Actually, if you look at the time this testimony came in, it wasn't missed. Lots of people doubted MS's arm story/lie. Some people mentioned fireman's carries. Someone else mentioned the sheet. Someone else didn't think both of them together could do it, and theorized a block and tackle. Myself, I didn't bother posting it but I did wonder if the "cleaning" door could be used. It was large and didn't seem like there was anything stopping someone from loading there, provided it wasn't already ignited.

Sorry for graphic nature.

The incinerator is quite tall, and it's on top of a trailer too. I really don't see one guy managing the task of loading it.

 

[Stirner]

Actually, if you look at the time this testimony came in, it wasn't missed. Lots of people doubted MS's arm story/lie. Some people mentioned fireman's carries. Someone else mentioned the sheet. Someone else didn't think both of them together could do it, and theorized a block and tackle. .

Did anyone mention that TB's wife described him as being unusually skinny?

(see folks, I don't just mention or consider evidence that fits my theory, I post about ALL evidence)

 

[ArianeEmory]

The incinerator is quite tall, and it's on top of a trailer too. I really don't see one guy managing the task of loading it.

I hear you, but unless I misread, the poster I was responding to didn't think BOTH of them could do it.

 

[Claroon]

Well the '2' was a text DM sent to MH after MH asked 'is it (toolbox) full of guns??' But MH has testified that he did not think that DM meant there were 2 guns in the box, but suggested that DM might have texted him '2' to mean that he would be arriving in two minutes. I don't believe MH, though. Both the text and MH's explanation are evidence, but it's up to each individual as to which is more plausible. As far as I recall the box was locked when MH had it and he never saw the inside, but he testified that every time he saw the toolbox on previous occasions there were only drugs in it.

Time from billandrew's spreadsheet says:
"4:10 am Millard (on Noudga's phone) texts Hagerman: "2." Day 31: Hagerman testimony
May 10 4:12 am Millard meets Hagerman in driveway of Hagerman's parents' home, provides a toolbox with small padlock on it."

So it was two minutes, but I don't recall how anyone knew the exact time.

 

[Just4TB]

Actually, if you look at the time this testimony came in, it wasn't missed. Lots of people doubted MS's arm story/lie. Some people mentioned fireman's carries. Someone else mentioned the sheet. Someone else didn't think both of them together could do it, and theorized a block and tackle. Myself, I didn't bother posting it but I did wonder if the "cleaning" door could be used. It was large and didn't seem like there was anything stopping someone from loading there, provided it wasn't already ignited.

Sorry for graphic nature.

The Eliminator has horizontal cross pipes with narrow gaps between them. The clean-out door is below these pipes. An intact body would not fit through the gaps. There were bone fragments found on top of one of these pipes. Body would have to be loaded in the top IMO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Well the '2' was a text DM sent to MH after MH asked 'is it (toolbox) full of guns??' But MH has testified that he did not think that DM meant there were 2 guns in the box, but suggested that DM might have texted him '2' to mean that he would be arriving in two minutes. I don't believe MH, though. Both the text and MH's explanation are evidence, but it's up to each individual as to which is more plausible. As far as I recall the box was locked when MH had it and he never saw the inside, but he testified that every time he saw the toolbox on previous occasions there were only drugs in it.

My (non hostile) response to this would have been:

1) Why would MH lie? I thought he was on DM's side.

2) Can't see MS having $1200 for an illegal handgun.

3) We only had evidence of one illicit gun sale

And I've made points 2 and 3 BEFORE MS testified.

I've also repeatedly--just, like, today--mentioned MS's incriminating fireside tweets. I don't have tunnel vision.

 

[Just4TB]

The incinerator is quite tall, and it's on top of a trailer too. I really don't see one guy managing the task of loading it.

I hunt deer. A typical whitetail doe is 140-160lbs. I am 185lbs, 6'1" Not far off DM weight, and height. I am fit but not a body builder.
During bowhunting, I am usually alone. I retrieve my deer with an ATV or pickup truck. Lifting a 150lb deer onto the ATV rack, or into the back of a pickup is approx 3.5 feet. I can do that alone without problem. Part of the deer is always in contact with a surface. Lift front, then back. Roll onto rack.

From the pics, the top side door of the Eliminator does not appear to be much higher above the trailer deck. I believe that lifting a 150lb person (I am speculating on TB weight) into the box of the truck, or onto the trailer deck, and then into the Eliminator, is quite do-able by one person. Perhaps some huffing and puffing but do-able. I have also tried to lift a 190lb buck, but was unable. Needed to call a buddy to help. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I hunt deer. A typical whitetail doe is 140-160lbs. I am 185lbs, 6'1" Not far off DM weight, and height. I am fit but not a body builder.
During bowhunting, I am usually alone. I retrieve my deer with an ATV or pickup truck. Lifting a 150lb deer onto the ATV rack, or into the back of a pickup is approx 3.5 feet. I can do that alone without problem. Part of the deer is always in contact with a surface. Lift front, then back. Roll onto rack.

From the pics, the top side door of the Eliminator does not appear to be much higher above the trailer deck. I believe that lifting a 150lb person (I am speculating on TB weight) into the box of the truck, or onto the trailer deck, and then into the Eliminator, is quite do-able by one person. Perhaps some huffing and puffing but do-able. I have also tried to lift a 190lb buck, but was unable. Needed to call a buddy to help. MOO

Thanks for that. (People have the most interesting experiences here!)

 

[Arnie M]

Yes, he may have been feeling whatever weird and uncomfortable feelings he was feeling about having seen his friend in the condition he described (lunatic), and feeling shocked about what his friend had done, but MS said he didn't feel guilty.. I took that to mean that he didn't feel that he was guilty of the crime of murder (as opposed to that he didn't have any kind of guilty conscience about the dead man); he was believing that the whole murder part was all DM's doing, he wasn't even there for that part, etc etc.. until he supposedly received the item which DM had left with MH, which AM said that DM would have wanted him to have... which made him clue in, perhaps for the very first time, that DM's intention was not only to get away with his crime, but actually to put the blame on HIM. Up until that point, he very well could have been thinking that it was DM's deal, and that DM would find a way out for himself and take care of it for himself, and even if not, the most he'd be on the hook for would be AATF. And then *BOOM*, he sees that not only didn't DM dispose of the murder weapon, but it is now in HIS possession (MS's). That could tend to be a pretty scary moment, and from then on, wondering what was going on inside of this lunatic's mind. Kind of could make sense? jmo

You just made the lights go on for me (thank you) .... thinking from MS's point of view (like you have) that scenario is very plausible .... DM is arrested .... ... not talking to police according to his lawyer .... and then his lawyer stated on live television .... I cannot get into the framing aspects at this time .....

BINGO !!! ... it would be logical for MS to conclude DM was trying to put all the blame on him.

 

[SnooperDuper]

DM's story is going to have to be something like...

DM and MS parked the Yukon down the way because DM had the dog and he wasn't sure if the B's had one and didn't want any trouble. DM and MS left on the test drive, drove past the Yukon, MS shot TB, they turned around and returned to the Yukon and DM got in. Of course MS threatened to kill DM if DM did not assist. And assist DM did...

 

[NashBridges2]

You just made the lights go on for me (thank you) .... thinking from MS's point of view (like you have) that scenario is very plausible .... DM is arrested .... ... not talking to police according to his lawyer .... and then his lawyer stated on live television .... I cannot get into the framing aspects at this time .....

BINGO !!! ... it would be logical for MS to conclude DM was trying to put all the blame on him.

Not to mention, Smich lawyer would have had the letters DM wrote in jail a long time ago, so Smich has known for a while DM was planning on pinning this on him. Be interesting to see how cross exams play out. I'm on the fence and will see where it goes before I decide just how much of Smichs' testibaloney I want to believe. So far, I believe he wasn't in the truck when TB was shot. As of right now, I still believe he knew and that it was premeditated.

 

[Sillybilly]

Personalizing, back and forth bickering, and snark posts have been removed. If you can't post responsibly and respectfully, best not to post at all.

If it starts up again, TOs will be issued without further warning.