CA - Mass casualty incident, 5+ stabbed at Neo-Nazi rally, Sacramento, 26 June 2016

[sonjay]

Actually, they are as dumb and as unproductive as the anarcho fascists are.

But, levels of intelligence and levels of social productivity are not core issues. The core issue is that those issuing "attack our enemies on site" orders need prison. That goes double when the "powered up" leader issues an expanded "enemies" list . It does not matter whether those ordering the attacks are left wing, right wing, white nationalists or maoists.

I've not seen or heard anything about any white nationalist group having "attack our enemies on site" orders.

BAMN and Antifa apparently do. They believe that their political ends justify "any means." They do not believe in free speech for all. They are violent and dangerous terrorists.

 

[flourish]

I've not seen or heard anything about any white nationalist group having "attack our enemies on site" orders.

BAMN and Antifa apparently do. They believe that their political ends justify "any means." They do not believe in free speech for all. They are violent and dangerous terrorists.

Lol oh homophones are funny. I read your post and thought, "okay so they only attack off-site then?" on sight Ha Ha

 

[sonjay]

Lol oh homophones are funny. I read your post and thought, "okay so they only attack off-site then?" on sight Ha Ha

LOL. I blame Cryptic, whose post I replied to. On sight. Attack on sight.

I'm much more concerned about the people who instigate violence — which is pretty darn hateful — than I am about people who say hateful things but who don't attack other people just because they disagree with them.

Violence motivated by hate is worse than speech motivated by hate, IMO.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I have said repeatedly in this thread that I believe it was wrong.

So... your opinion only.

The fact is, the self-identified "anti-fascists" instigated the violence. If not for them, there's no evidence that there would have been any violence at all.

And regardless, the so-called "anti-fascists" were not justified in their violent mob attack even if they did think the skinheads would have started something.

I continue to be astounded at the number of people who simply cannot bring themselves to condemn the use of violence by these so-called "anti-fascists."

 

[flourish]

Violence is wrong. Period.

Clear enough?

 

[cvaldez1975]

in this instance, yes they were worse in behavior. however, white nationalists have been violent many times before, so they are no better all in all.

IMO, BAMN and Antifa are WORSE because of their willingness to use violence to achieve their political goals.

 

[bluesneakers]

So... your opinion only.

The fact is, the self-identified "anti-fascists" instigated the violence. If not for them, there's no evidence that there would have been any violence at all.

And regardless, the so-called "anti-fascists" were not justified in their violent mob attack even if they did think the skinheads would have started something.

I continue to be astounded at the number of people who simply cannot bring themselves to condemn the use of violence by these so-called "anti-fascists."

I continue to be astounded at the number of people who simply cannot bring themselves to condemn the neo-nazis and their white nationalism, intimidation, propaganda, and racism.

 

[bluesneakers]

in this instance, yes they were worse in behavior. however, white nationalists have been violent many times before, so they are no better all in all.

It's like we need a hate-group ranking system.

 

[sonjay]

It's like we need a hate-group ranking system.

If we had a hate-group ranking system, I would rank those who instigate actual physical violence against their opponents as WORSE than those who simply say offensive or hateful things. Your ranking may differ.

 

[sonjay]

in this instance, yes they were worse in behavior. however, white nationalists have been violent many times before, so they are no better all in all.

Have the specific white nationalists who were attacked last Sunday by violent mobs been violent before? Is there any difference between white nationalists who don't instigate violence and those who do? Is it justified for a violent mob to attack a group of white nationalists because other white nationalists have been violent before?

 

[human]

Good post.

If the neo nazis go beyond exercising their 1st Amendment rights and commit hate crimes against anyone then our crimminal justice system should take care of it, not some left wing anarchists or any other private citizens.

The thought of people violating others Constitutional rights because they don't like them is abhorrent to me. JMO

How would that have worked in Nazi Germany? Just asking the question. Don't need a big put down on me. Just wondering what people think.

 

[RANCH]

How would that have worked in Nazi Germany? Just asking the question. Don't need a big put down on me. Just wondering what people think.

The Nazis in Germany were the controlling government. In this case we have a small group of neo-nazi haters that control nothing other than themselves. Kind of hard to compare the two.

I will say that the Second Amendment to the Constitution would help in preventing a tyrannical government like Nazi Germany from taking control of America. That's why we should never allow our Constitutional rights to be abridged. JMO

 

[human]

The Nazis in Germany were the controlling government. In this case we have a small group of neo-nazi haters that control nothing other than themselves. Kind of hard to compare the two.

I will say that the Second Amendment to the Constitution would help in preventing a tyrannical government like Nazi Germany from taking control of America. That's why we should never allow our Constitutional rights to be abridged. JMO

Yeah, cuz guns are so good against heat seeking missiles and armored tanks and whatever other crazy things exist.

Anyway, what would people have done?

 

[flourish]

I guess you can decide all of that if you wish.

I am truly wondering what people feel they would have done during Nazi Germany.

See, I guess I don't see the comparison to the nazis back then and the ones other day.

Back in the day, that was war and /or self defense. Generally humans, myself included, have an accepted exception for violence which occurs in those two situations.

Today's nazis aren't what they used to be, thank goodness. But of course it's not acceptable to be violent towards them (see disclaimer above).

Violence at any protest is unacceptable, whether it's nazis or the school children.
I think most posters here agree. I'm not understanding the confusion. Perhaps it's going over my head.

 

[Elley Mae]

See, I guess I don't see the comparison to the nazis back then and the ones other day.

Back in the day, that was war and /or self defense. Generally humans, myself included, have an accepted exception for violence which occurs in those two situations.

Today's nazis aren't what they used to be, thank goodness. But of course it's not acceptable to be violent towards them (see disclaimer above).

Violence at any protest is unacceptable, whether it's nazis or the school children.
I think most posters here agree. I'm not understanding the confusion. Perhaps it's going over my head.

bbm Me neither, makes no sense to me. It's like an obsession.

 

[sonjay]

Good post.

If the neo nazis go beyond exercising their 1st Amendment rights and commit hate crimes against anyone then our crimminal justice system should take care of it, not some left wing anarchists or any other private citizens.

The thought of people violating others Constitutional rights because they don't like them is abhorrent to me. JMO

As it is to most of us.

The subtle justification of using violence to shut down people that a group disagrees with is, quite frankly, extremely alarming.

Thing is, the protection of free speech is most important for speech that is unpopular. Popular speech doesn't need protecting. Unpopular speech needs protecting. When people think it's okay to shut down speech they don't like -- because it's racist, because it's xenophobic, because of any reasons whatsoever — they have proved that they don't support free speech at all.

 

[human]

bbm Me neither, makes no sense to me. It's like an obsession.

Yes, it is an obsession with me wondering if I would have the courage . Have thought about this for forty years.

 

[bluesneakers]

I am not making an anaology although this group is neo Nazi. I am not supporting their violence. Iam merely asking what one would have done during Nazi Germany.

The question is of interest to me but that is ok if no one else thinks about it. It is interesting they found a new escspe tunnel in Lithuania. So many risked their own lives and most did not.

Would I have done anything and risked my own life? Interesting to think about.

Some risked their lives to save others and some risked their lives fighting. Many had no choice. It is interesting to think about. Would I hide a family in the attic? Refuse to work in a camp? Kill myself before they could take me? Join the Army and risk my life on foreign soil?

 

[bluesneakers]

See, I guess I don't see the comparison to the nazis back then and the ones other day.

Back in the day, that was war and /or self defense. Generally humans, myself included, have an accepted exception for violence which occurs in those two situations.

Today's nazis aren't what they used to be, thank goodness. But of course it's not acceptable to be violent towards them (see disclaimer above).

Violence at any protest is unacceptable, whether it's nazis or the school children.
I think most posters here agree. I'm not understanding the confusion. Perhaps it's going over my head.

IMO the incident simply raised a hypothetical. This is what this group did to neo-Nazis, what might you or I have done faced with real Nazis?

Jmo and maybe I misunderstood.

 

[sonjay]

IMO the incident simply raised a hypothetical. This is what this group did to neo-Nazis, what might you or I have done faced with real Nazis?

Jmo and maybe I misunderstood.

Yeah, I think you misunderstood. It sounds much more like an attempt to justify the use of mob violence to shut down speech that one doesn't like. It really doesn't have anything to do with Nazi Germany — except for the fact that if BAMN and Antifa gain enough power, America may well become like Nazi Germany. I think it's very important to stand up to hate groups like this and stop them.