FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub, Orlando 12 June 2016 #5

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i.b.nora said:
From yesterday:

FBI asks agencies who responded to Pulse to deny records requests
Orlando Sentinel
By Christal Hayes
June 29, 2016

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...bi-letter-law-enforcement-20160629-story.html

“The FBI has asked law enforcement agencies who responded to Pulse nightclub to withhold records from the public, according to officials.

A June 20 letter from the FBI, attached to the City or Orlando's lawsuit over withholding 911 calls and other records from 25 media outlets including the Orlando Sentinel, was also sent to the Seminole County Sheriff's Office with instructions pertaining to how they should respond to records requests.

The letter requests that agencies deny inquiries and directs departments to "immediately notify the FBI of any requests your agency received" so "the FBI can seek to prevent disclosure through appropriate channels, as necessary."”​

More, more, more...
Click to expand...

Why? What are they afraid of? What are they hiding? What did he say that they don't want us to hear? Why are they scrubbing what was said?
 
Elley Mae said:
Why? What are they afraid of? What are they hiding? What did he say that they don't want us to hear? Why are they scrubbing what was said?
Click to expand...
It will be interesting to see if the FBI can override Florida's sunshine laws. I would think Florida law would control. I hope so, anyway. Definitely something they don't want us to hear.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
It will be interesting to see if the FBI can override Florida's sunshine laws. I would think Florida law would control. I hope so, anyway. Definitely something they don't want us to hear.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It would be nice if Florida officials had the brass to do a giant document dump before the FBI can get its machinery fully geared up — just make the FBI's request moot.
 
It is possible that while OM was the only active shooter others may be involveded. Maybe in thier investigation the FBI has found something out and others will be charged. It is not unusual for law enforcement to keep everything hush hush while they finish thier investigation of others.
I don't remember the exact words but IIRC one of the things OM said was that this was just the beginning. Also, his wife is supposedly missing. Is she missing or in protective custody?
IMO if there is anything that law enforcement did wrong that night they wouldn't care if it is released, they would leave it up to the state to fight the record release. I'm pretty sure that no FBI agents were involved during the standoff, so no need to withhold information to protect one of thier own.
My question is when does the FBI take over the lead in a mass shooting. Do they take over all mass shootings? Hate crimes? I know they would take over for acts of terrorism, foreign or domestic.
IMO the FBI is wanting all information sealed till the investigation is over because there is at least one more person they are investigating. We saw this with local law enforcement on the Sievers case, and we are seeing it on the local level on the Ohio mass shooting case.
 
Wyle_E_Coyote said:
It will be interesting to see if the FBI can override Florida's sunshine laws. I would think Florida law would control. I hope so, anyway. Definitely something they don't want us to hear.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My guess here (all that this is) is they do not world to "hear" how disorganzed in his thinking he might have been, giving more valdiity to the role of mental illiness as opposed to the agenda driven terrorist angle.

That is an enormous amount of insight hidden on some tapes, somewhere. In essence its a 28 minute conversation with a mass shooter. That is what it is.

Its election time !!

"ISIS" gets a lot more money moved around than our failing mental illiness system. Think about it , if you were in congress, and had, 8 months ago reduced mental health funding, and he is disorganized cognitvly during the 28 minutes of interaction with the hostage dude.



This is clearest BS story I have ever experienced.

In any other story on earth , this mysterious call from a "friend" would have got three news cycles. Media would l have, IMO, been all over mysterious caller.

How did you know him?
How long?
How would you describe him?
How did you meet?
What medications were talking about?
What concerns were you having, at that time, that lead you to the conclusion that medications are invoved here?
What is your vocation (mental health person?)
Had you been contacted by a family member, that night, resulting in your call?
If so, who and what were there concerns when they contacted you?
How did he sound during the call?
Would you give us an interview?

Why a discussion regarding medications and alternatives to suicide were not explored in depth in terms of "motivation" leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Hold on, I am getting my toothbrush!

Can anyone provide some speculation on what that call is about other than mental illiness and an awareness that OM was suicidal? I am open to alternatives!

On this thread , when that broke I anticipated an entire change in the thread in terms of motivation dialog- it just vanished from the story.

The entity "mental illiness" , despite the fact that some human being had just shot at 100 people, vanished from the story after 6 hours, makes utterly no sense IMO.

Can you imagine if James Homes got a ringy dingy from a "friend" in the middle of his massacre , and the media has no interest in "the" caller?

The media is foucusing on who he liked to get naked with, while ignoring that a friend that called from miles away, in the middle of this? The media ignored the call, what on earth??

That is just so telling -- keeping mental health out of this at all costs, no matter if that is the truth, imo, here.

That takes us back to doing nothing here IN America after, Elliot.

That takes us back to doing nothing here IN America after, Adam.

That takes us back to doing nothing here IN America after, Holmes.

That takes us back to doing nothing here IN America after, planned parenthood.

On and on

It is kinda like a kid who keeps blaming their sibling for taking an off limits choclate cookie..........................


Its obsurdily insulting to ones inteleigence.
 
Couldn't Mateen be a terrorist and be mentally ill? And that there is real terrorism out there, it is not simply an agenda.
 
CARIIS said:
Can anyone provide some speculation on what that call is about other than mental illiness and an awareness that OM was suicidal? I am open to alternatives! .
Click to expand...

rsbm

You think during the 28 minutes the call turns into a suicide hotline call, like he's threatening and arguing and the negotiator is saying it doesn't have to end like this, let's talk?

I agree that's something they wouldn't want out there, especially if at some point he says he's not really a member of ISIS or other group. Or if it's clear he's completely lost it. He breaks down and says this is all because my father never loved me or something.

IMO they would be right to attempt to talk him out of suicide and killing more people so it wouldn't matter what was said.

I don't have an alternative. My only thought was he named names and they can't go public with that yet.
 
bluesneakers said:
rsbm

You think during the 28 minutes the call turns into a suicide hotline call, like he's threatening and arguing and the negotiator is saying it doesn't have to end like this, let's talk?

I agree that's something they wouldn't want out there, especially if at some point he says he's not really a member of ISIS or other group. Or if it's clear he's completely lost it. He breaks down and says this is all because my father never loved me or something.

IMO they would be right to attempt to talk him out of suicide and killing more people so it wouldn't matter what was said.

I don't have an alternative. My only thought was he named names and they can't go public with that yet.
Click to expand...

bbm, if if If he swore allegiance to hell's angels would that be believed?

bbm alternative ?

Does one have to have a isis membership card on them? He swore allegiance to isis. His own words are a lie?
 
Elley Mae said:
bbm, if if If he swore allegiance to hell's angels would that be believed?

bbm alternative ?

Does one have to have a isis membership card on them? He swore allegiance to isis. His own words are a lie?
Click to expand...

Alternative = An alternate theory to what was discussed during the 28 minutes.
 
bluesneakers said:
An alternative theory to what was discussed during the 28 minutes.
Click to expand...

well the islamic soilder, (omar mateen) talked about Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and he invoked his god,allah said he had vest like the ones the islamic terrorist used in france. I don't need any more info to tell me why he did it, common sense tells me why he did it. He did it for his team and allah. jmo
 
Elley Mae said:
well the islamic soilder, (omar mateen) talked about Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and he invoked his god,allah said he had vest like the ones the islamic terrorist used in france. I don't need any more info to tell me why he did it, common sense tells me why he did it. He did it for his team and allah. jmo
Click to expand...

That's your theory? So you have no interest in the portions of the calls we haven't heard? If it was like you say - just the same stuff we've already heard why wouldn't they want us to hear it?
 
bluesneakers said:
That's your theory? So you have no interest in the portions of the calls we haven't heard? If it was like you say - just the same stuff we've already heard why wouldn't they want us to hear it?
Click to expand...

Why did they initially release that ridiculously redacted 911 transcript?

I'm very interested in the calls that we haven't yet heard. But I don't expect there will be anything like the terrorist Omar Mateen saying he's not really an Islamic terrorist and he's doing it because he's gay. I've seen no evidence whatsoever to support such a theory.
 
bluesneakers said:
That's your theory? So you have no interest in the portions of the calls we haven't heard? If it was like you say - just the same stuff we've already heard why wouldn't they want us to hear it?
Click to expand...

I would love for them to get released, but I think (jmo) we will have to wait till next year for that to happen, if they can be found. It's my opine that some in high places have muslim relatives and they don't want to offend them. Just like our soldiers changing outfits 4 times, (as to not offend the libyans, imagine that )thinking they were going on a rescue mission only to be told were not going. jmo Not trying/wanting to change subject, it's just an example as to maybe why.
 
bluesneakers said:
rsbm

You think during the 28 minutes the call turns into a suicide hotline call, like he's threatening and arguing and the negotiator is saying it doesn't have to end like this, let's talk?

I agree that's something they wouldn't want out there, especially if at some point he says he's not really a member of ISIS or other group. Or if it's clear he's completely lost it. He breaks down and says this is all because my father never loved me or something.

IMO they would be right to attempt to talk him out of suicide and killing more people so it wouldn't matter what was said.

I don't have an alternative. My only thought was he named names and they can't go public with that yet.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Severly mentally ill on a downward sprial. What person, who was in touch with reality, who has an arsonal in his van, is going to have to get there before he starts murdering people to get a wristband?

Orlando nightclub shooter went into the club just TWO HOURS before his attack to get entry wristband.

What, the future biggest mass shooter in US history, does not want to go into a bar "skipping" on the cover charge? Was he thinking he might not be allowed in if he did not pay - despite his machine gun.? This is completly manic , illogical thinking patterns. He was not in touch with reality moo.

Only an individual that is not orineted to what he is doing can calmly discuss massacreing 100 people within two feet of himself in " calm and deliberate manner'. That is not in reality.

Mateen also 'made murderous statements "- again that is not in reality. Have we heard from ISIS terrorists who are making phone calls and losing thier marbles with authorities?? Never. They are focused.

Pay attn to his word choice. It indicates a rambling manic. 'There is some vehicle outside that has some bombs, just to let you know,' said Mateen. 'You people are gonna get it, and I'm gonna ignite it if they try to do anything stupid.'

He switches in the same call from YOU to THEY - thats not keeping up with who he is talking to in a peroid of 5 seconds. You and they are two different entities. Thats switching.

On the phone with LE, and he says , if they try to do....sounds as if he is , at that moment thinking he is talking to someone NOT in LE --"they". NOt "you" try to do anything. Its jumbled thinking. Its getting confused.

The word (ignite) give the image of him stepping outside, with a Bic lighter and lighting a fuse. Someone in the present ,would IMO, say something like there are bombs in a car outside, and I will set them off....."gonna ignite" is just "off" .

also claimed to have vests like the ones 'used in France', a reference to last year's terror attacks in Paris. Sounds as if , at that point he felt the need to give to caller a point of referance? Again that is copy cat stuff. "Like the ones in France". Its a peculiar verbilzation.

'In the next few days, you're going to see more of this type of action going on,'. "Action" --- this is not a blockbuster action picture - this is a real life massacre. The word "action" is off. Sounds like he, at that time feels as if he is an action hero . IMO.

 A cop wanna be.... referring to himself as an 'Islamic solider.' He claimed he was pals with the Boston folks, with the sucidal bomber in Syria, was Osamas relative.None true. Again fall into his ISIS big bad delusionial claim he was a big ISIS terrorist is completly out of touch with reality.

In reality he was a rent a cop.

Many people have been in my office telling me they are the devil, god, jesus, the almighty, when in no contact with reality at all. How it works!


Batman WAS the Joker. That was true for Holmes when he was in the theatre. Again , how it happens - thats the illiness. Son of Sam heard dogs -- in his mind --indeed, he heard dogs.

His cognative inability to get correctly what "agency" he was acting on is congruent with much confusion, disoritation, mood swings. He calmed down and quit shooting for quite a while. Then walks into a bathroom and sticks his gun over a stall and starts firing into it. That a pretty big change in behavior (impusive /confusion) after being "still" for a peroid of time, after a intense and out of control beginning.

Several witness reported hearing him "chuckle"- affectivily, that is not congruent emotionially when blasting people apart with a machine gun two feet in front of ones face. Its off.Not on kilter. Peculiar. Mental.

True crime reader for years. I have never heard of a "shooter" calmly digging through his victims bodies, to assure they are dead. That IMO, indicates peroids of time during this that he just "forgot" that an army is outside and might come busting in at any moment get him. He obviously , at times got to a place, to where he felt as if he could just run a double check, and shoot some that needed more. Thats in and out of reality.

Kinda like a bank robber, after leaving, thinking he was not happy with the haul and going back in 15 minutes and asking for more money. Its not orderly cognitive processing.

His need to discuss his race relations in the middle of a mass murder is a discconect. What, the AA in the room are going think, oh this dude is AOK - he has nothing againist us.

That was stunning to me. He got back on track and in touch with his real reason for being there and doing what he was doing. Killing cause of hate rec'd in his life cause of who he was. Much like AA. He also needed to let a discriminated group of people know , that they were "OK" by him. That is very telling IMO. Wanted to comfort a group of disenfrachesed people.

Cell phones were evidently going off all over the place throughout. But in some instances, he responds to the stimuli, in the bathroom, when they go off, by getting both agitated and parnaoid about the noise BUT, only in some situtions.

Apparently he had no trouble "dealing" with all the cell phones ringing while he was going through bodies on the dance floor. Screening in and out noises around him. That is what it does. Incongreunt in the whole context.

Saying "I love ya babe" to his wife after shooting a 100 people is "off". Does not add up.

I had one schizophrenic (never forget it) , after he cleared, out a bit, saying what it is like " is being between two radio stations in your head at the same time, all the time."

Think about that. I did.

Its tangential thinking. Bizaire.

Thoughts, emotions, all over the place - thats mental illiness. Any of the ISIS folks in San Bern, Brussels, yesterday airport, what is going on now- any of those folks engage in "chatting" with LE over a three hour peroid? No.

Any of these folks take a time out in the middle of their attack? Any of them concerned that may not be allowed in the airport if they did not have a ticket? Anyone at the Battican concerned about buying a seat before hand?

Now look at Holmes - same thing - mental stuff - he purchased a ticket a played movie goer before shooting up a theatre full of people. Similarities/ Differences. Lanza blew his mothers head off before proceeding. The zodiac killer chatted with LE for years. No - one involved in 9-11 did anything of the kind!


Similarities/ Differences. Differences/ Similaities.

These folks were aware that a machine gun means they dont need to pay the cover charge wrist band to gain entry. They were oriented to the fact that a an assualt rifle negates that need.

IMO, the abovementioned are only some of the dialog the hostage 28 minutes dont want to be made public.

Anyone, IMO, would be able to ascertain that this man was very sick, if one could listen to the interactions with the hostage guy.

moo

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gun-49-innocent-partygoers.html#ixzz4DCNFWIrX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
CARIIS said:
Exactly. Severly mentally ill on a downward sprial. What person, who was in touch with reality, who has an arsonal in his van, is going to have to get there before he starts murdering people to get a wristband?

Orlando nightclub shooter went into the club just TWO HOURS before his attack to get entry wristband.

What, the future biggest mass shooter in US history, does not want to go into a bar "skipping" on the cover charge? Was he thinking he might not be allowed in if he did not pay - despite his machine gun.? This is completly manic , illogical thinking patterns. He was not in touch with reality moo.

Only an individual that is not orineted to what he is doing can calmly discuss massacreing 100 people within two feet of himself in " calm and deliberate manner'. That is not in reality.

Mateen also 'made murderous statements "- again that is not in reality. Have we heard from ISIS terrorists who are making phone calls and losing thier marbles with authorities?? Never. They are focused.

Pay attn to his word choice. It indicates a rambling manic. 'There is some vehicle outside that has some bombs, just to let you know,' said Mateen. 'You people are gonna get it, and I'm gonna ignite it if they try to do anything stupid.'

He switches in the same call from YOU to THEY - thats not keeping up with who he is talking to in a peroid of 5 seconds. You and they are two different entities. Thats switching.

On the phone with LE, and he says , if they try to do....sounds as if he is , at that moment thinking he is talking to someone NOT in LE --"they". NOt "you" try to do anything. Its jumbled thinking. Its getting confused.

The word (ignite) give the image of him stepping outside, with a Bic lighter and lighting a fuse. Someone in the present ,would IMO, say something like there are bombs in a car outside, and I will set them off....."gonna ignite" is just "off" .

also claimed to have vests like the ones 'used in France', a reference to last year's terror attacks in Paris. Sounds as if , at that point he felt the need to give to caller a point of referance? Again that is copy cat stuff. "Like the ones in France". Its a peculiar verbilzation.

'In the next few days, you're going to see more of this type of action going on,'. "Action" --- this is not a blockbuster action picture - this is a real life massacre. The word "action" is off. Sounds like he, at that time feels as if he is an action hero . IMO.

 A cop wanna be.... referring to himself as an 'Islamic solider.' He claimed he was pals with the Boston folks, with the sucidal bomber in Syria, was Osamas relative.None true. Again fall into his ISIS big bad delusionial claim he was a big ISIS terrorist is completly out of touch with reality.

In reality he was a rent a cop.

Many people have been in my office telling me they are the devil, god, jesus, the almighty, when in no contact with reality at all. How it works!


Batman WAS the Joker. That was true for Holmes when he was in the theatre. Again , how it happens - thats the illiness. Son of Sam heard dogs -- in his mind --indeed, he heard dogs.

His cognative inability to get correctly what "agency" he was acting on is congruent with much confusion, disoritation, mood swings. He calmed down and quit shooting for quite a while. Then walks into a bathroom and sticks his gun over a stall and starts firing into it. That a pretty big change in behavior (impusive /confusion) after being "still" for a peroid of time, after a intense and out of control beginning.

Several witness reported hearing him "chuckle"- affectivily, that is not congruent emotionially when blasting people apart with a machine gun two feet in front of ones face. Its off.Not on kilter. Peculiar. Mental.

True crime reader for years. I have never heard of a "shooter" calmly digging through his victims bodies, to assure they are dead. That IMO, indicates peroids of time during this that he just "forgot" that an army is outside and might come busting in at any moment get him. He obviously , at times got to a place, to where he felt as if he could just run a double check, and shoot some that needed more. Thats in and out of reality.

Kinda like a bank robber, after leaving, thinking he was not happy with the haul and going back in 15 minutes and asking for more money. Its not orderly cognitive processing.

His need to discuss his race relations in the middle of a mass murder is a discconect. What, the AA in the room are going think, oh this dude is AOK - he has nothing againist us.

That was stunning to me. He got back on track and in touch with his real reason for being there and doing what he was doing. Killing cause of hate rec'd in his life cause of who he was. Much like AA. He also needed to let a discriminated group of people know , that they were "OK" by him. That is very telling IMO. Wanted to comfort a group of disenfrachesed people.

Cell phones were evidently going off all over the place throughout. But in some instances, he responds to the stimuli, in the bathroom, when they go off, by getting both agitated and parnaoid about the noise BUT, only in some situtions.

Apparently he had no trouble "dealing" with all the cell phones ringing while he was going through bodies on the dance floor. Screening in and out noises around him. That is what it does. Incongreunt in the whole context.

Saying "I love ya babe" to his wife after shooting a 100 people is "off". Does not add up.

I had one schizophrenic (never forget it) , after he cleared, out a bit, saying what it is like " is being between two radio stations in your head at the same time, all the time."

Think about that. I did.

Its tangential thinking. Bizaire.

Thoughts, emotions, all over the place - thats mental illiness. Any of the ISIS folks in San Bern, Brussels, yesterday airport, what is going on now- any of those folks engage in "chatting" with LE over a three hour peroid? No.

Any of these folks take a time out in the middle of their attack? Any of them concerned that may not be allowed in the airport if they did not have a ticket? Anyone at the Battican concerned about buying a seat before hand?

Now look at Holmes - same thing - mental stuff - he purchased a ticket a played movie goer before shooting up a theatre full of people. Similarities/ Differences. Lanza blew his mothers head off before proceeding. The zodiac killer chatted with LE for years. No - one involved in 9-11 did anything of the kind!


Similarities/ Differences. Differences/ Similaities.

These folks were aware that a machine gun means they dont need to pay the cover charge wrist band to gain entry. They were oriented to the fact that a an assualt rifle negates that need.

IMO, the abovementioned are only some of the dialog the hostage 28 minutes dont want to be made public.

Anyone, IMO, would be able to ascertain that this man was very sick, if one could listen to the interactions with the hostage guy.

moo

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gun-49-innocent-partygoers.html#ixzz4DCNFWIrX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Click to expand...
Do you think it is possible that if he was mentally ill could someone of brainwash him into doing the massacre? I am not thinking he has ISIS or other extremist ties, but maybe someone that is either anti American, anti gay or anti Latino and used him to further thier cause.
I just think that there is at least one other person involved in this and that is what the FBI is investigating and why they dont want anything released. Maybe he did slipped and said something in the 28 minute phone call.
 
ohreally said:
Do you think it is possible that if he was mentally ill could someone of brainwash him into doing the massacre? I am not thinking he has ISIS or other extremist ties, but maybe someone that is either anti American, anti gay or anti Latino and used him to further thier cause.
I just think that there is at least one other person involved in this and that is what the FBI is investigating and why they dont want anything released. Maybe he did slipped and said something in the 28 minute phone call.
Click to expand...

This is only what Ithink. I think this was a bipolar individual, who stopped his meds a couple of months ago - it takes about 6 weeks for them to drain.

his inner guilt and shame about his sexuality become unmangeable for him, as his meds drained , a he spiraled out. His s April getting stuff in, order, at that point in time, was solely suicidal.

Gay days triggered his move from suicidal to homicidal and the rest is history.

I think practically IDENTICAL to Batman/Holmes . I think in weeks ahead they will get nailed, and when that happens the headline will be be "Federal Officials investigating the Pulse shooting two months ago overtly hid Omars history of mental illiness"

He had been on powerful antipsycotics, since he was XX, had XX failed suicidal attempts.

Authorities, have convened a special commission, to investigate when officials learned about his psyc history, and who ordered the total repression of their findings.

The commission anticpates it will finish its investagation into the investiagition in 2021. Serious!

moo
 
Elley Mae said:
bbm, if if If he swore allegiance to hell's angels would that be believed?

bbm alternative ?

Does one have to have a isis membership card on them? He swore allegiance to isis. His own words are a lie?
Click to expand...

He had a lifelong pattern of lying since childhood.

....defined as "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, ... very complicated, and may manifest over .... a lifetime".[SUP][1]

[/SUP].... they believe their life is unpleasant or boring....

... stories told are usually dazzling:


  • ............chronic; .....,characterized by repeated acts of violent,aggressive behavior...
  • .......... internal, not an external, motive .... habitual spousal battery ....
  • ..........telling stories that present them as the hero or the victim.

  • .......fantastically brave

....has committed equally grandiose acts of diabolical evil, for which the sufferer must atone or already has atoned in her/his fantasies.

.... is a stand-alone disorder.... symptom of other disorders antisocial,..... narcissistic,.

.......to cope with their feeling of abandonment, mistreatment, or rejection

... tend to lie about their identities
....progresses into the fantasy world

...........1 in 1,000 repeat juvenile offenders....

...........a chaotic home environment,...... parent ......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_lying


 
There's no wool covering my eyes, I know why he did it.
 
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