CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[Hope4More]

Was he guilty or was he wrongly convicted?

Right now he's innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. The first was genuinely not.

Is he guilty? Who knows?

One tiny piece of case minutiae:.Didn't Syed say he wasn't familiar with Leaken Park (where Hae was buried)?

That I don't believe. At all. I've driven between the school, the Best Buy, the park and ride, and the park. The distance between the Best Buy and park is just a couple of miles, and even less between the school and park. The park and ride lot is VERY close to the park- almost literally across the street.

Syed smoked weed, had a car, and was allowed to eat lunch off premises on school days. Kids from his school routinely go to that park to take advantage of a nearby place that is secluded and not very populated midday. I find it difficult to believe Syed wasn't one of them.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I'm pretty sure the State will retry him, actually. The only error the court found was by his counsel, about one piece of evidence (though it was obviously very significant).

Their primary evidence was Jay Wilds' testimony, which has changed many times. The judge even specifically mentioned in this release today that the state's timeline is inconsistent with Jay's testimony. There is literally zero forensic evidence tying Adnan to the crime. His fingerprints were on a map in her car, which he'd ridden in many times. No one saw him leaving with her that afternoon, in fact their friend Debbie saw them both after school and heard Hae tell Adnan she couldn't give him a ride.

The cell phone info isn't reliable evidence, either. The state has nothing to work with.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Right now he's innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. The first was genuinely not.

Is he guilty? Who knows?

One tiny piece of case minutiae:.Didn't Syed say he wasn't familiar with Leaken Park (where Hae was buried)?

That I don't believe. At all. I've driven between the school, the Best Buy, the park and ride, and the park. The distance between the Best Buy and park is just a couple of miles, and even less between the school and park. The park and ride lot is VERY close to the park- almost literally across the street.

Syed smoked weed, had a car, and was allowed to eat lunch off premises on school days. Kids from his school routinely go to that park to take advantage of a nearby place that is secluded and not very populated midday. I find it difficult to believe Syed wasn't one of them.

IIRC, it was Rabia who said she and her brother didn't know where Leakin Park was. I don't think Adnan said he didn't know. But maybe I'm mixed up.

 

[Tiger09]

I'm super glad that Adnan was granted a new trial. I think with all the craziness in the justice system going on right now- Kendrick Johnson, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garnerm to name a few- (not to mention the countless others who recieve no justice on either side of the law)- this is a sign that people have a voice.

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[~greeneyedgirl~]

I have a quick question and I do apologize in advance if this has been discussed...Is there a chance of an Alfred Plea in this case?

I don't pretend to know American Law and hope this isn't a foolish question.

Ive listened to all the various pod casts (serial, undisclosed etc) and am truly fascinated with this case.

 

[cujenn81]

I have a quick question and I do apologize in advance if this has been discussed...Is there a chance of an Alfred Plea in this case?

I don't pretend to know American Law and hope this isn't a foolish question.

Ive listened to all the various pod casts (serial, undisclosed etc) and am truly fascinated with this case.

I highly doubt it. An Alford plea is when a defendant enters a guilty plea but also claims he's innocent. The plea is made when the amount of evidence against a defendant is so strong that he believes a jury will issue a guilty verdict. The plea is made in an effort to avoid the worst possible sentence and often results in a sentence of 30 years in jail (which would be better than life without parole). However, a lighter sentence isn't an absolute given and the judge could still sentence him to life anyway.

While it's possible the state would agree to accept an Alford plea in this case (& I'm not sure they would), I can't imagine Adnan would agree to it even if they did. He's fought hard to get this opportunity (& it's incredibly rare for an appeal to be overturned), so I just can't see that happening.

 

[Tiger09]

I actually do think at this point since Adnan has been incarcerated for so long that an Alford plea is most likely what will happen. While it will get Adnan out, it won't find Hae's real killer. That's the bad thing about it. The best case scenario for everyone imo is to vacate conviction and find the real killer.

I really hope Jay Wilds is called to the stand. There's no statue of limitations on perjury, I believe. I'd also love to see Don and his two moms. Adnan has a good lawyer. He's no shark like Baez or whatever, but he's smart and hardworking.

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[mrsobrien]

I actually do think at this point since Adnan has been incarcerated for so long that an Alford plea is most likely what will happen. While it will get Adnan out, it won't find Hae's real killer. That's the bad thing about it. The best case scenario for everyone imo is to vacate conviction and find the real killer.

I really hope Jay Wilds is called to the stand. There's no statue of limitations on perjury, I believe. I'd also love to see Don and his two moms. Adnan has a good lawyer. He's no shark like Baez or whatever, but he's smart and hardworking.

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Personally, I will be disappointed if this happens. All I'm interested in is justice for Hae. If Adnan is indeed guilty, I want a solid trial to prove it. If he is not, I want her real killer found.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Personally, I will be disappointed if this happens. All I'm interested in is justice for Hae. If Adnan is indeed guilty, I want a solid trial to prove it. If he is not, I want her real killer found.

I want a trial too, even though I think he's guilty.

Does anyone else think justice is skewed if a podcast can help get someone a new trial? I don't think judges etc should be elected it warps their decisions IMO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I want a trial too, even though I think he's guilty.

Does anyone else think justice is skewed if a podcast can help get someone a new trial? I don't think judges etc should be elected it warps their decisions IMO.

I'm really torn about this, both in this case and the Making a Murderer guy (who I also think is guilty). Obviously I'm interested in true crime, but it seems unfair that these random, few criminals with "interesting" cases are able to get public opinion on their side. I have a feeling there are a lot more people in prison who were far more obviously railroaded/wrongly convicted, but their cases aren't as sensational or compelling, so they will never get some big documentary that piles fresh resources on them. It doesn't seem fair in that sense.

 

[Desertwind]

It is unfortunate that so few "questionable" cases get the publicity - but I do think that these high profile cases help those not in the limelight - in that it gets the public thinking about our justice system, and how careful we must really be prior to locking someone up for life, or worse, executing them.
I listened to the Serial podcast, and Undisclosed - I changed my mind fifty times. That in itself is a reason to me to grant a new trial. How can we lock someone up for life, if there is doubt?

 

[mrsobrien]

It is unfortunate that so few "questionable" cases get the publicity - but I do think that these high profile cases help those not in the limelight - in that it gets the public thinking about our justice system, and how careful we must really be prior to locking someone up for life, or worse, executing them.
I listened to the Serial podcast, and Undisclosed - I changed my mind fifty times. That in itself is a reason to me to grant a new trial. How can we lock someone up for life, if there is doubt?

I completely agree. Although i have mixed feelings about the production of Serial and Undisclosed, I believe it's a good thing to engage the public in legal conundrums. When any trial is so grossly mishandled, *I* want to know about it! It's in our interest to think critically and hold our system to a higher standard.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm really torn about this, both in this case and the Making a Murderer guy (who I also think is guilty). Obviously I'm interested in true crime, but it seems unfair that these random, few criminals with "interesting" cases are able to get public opinion on their side. I have a feeling there are a lot more people in prison who were far more obviously railroaded/wrongly convicted, but their cases aren't as sensational or compelling, so they will never get some big documentary that piles fresh resources on them. It doesn't seem fair in that sense.

I totally agree, the West Memphis Three is another classic example!

 

[Swirlz]

If it wasn't Adnan, could the only other perpetrator be Jay?

 

[ArianeEmory]

If it wasn't Adnan, could the only other perpetrator be Jay?

Rabia was *extremely* aggressive in insisting it must be on Twitter.

 

[cujenn81]

If it wasn't Adnan, could the only other perpetrator be Jay?

I personally don't think Jay had anything to do with Hae's murder or had any inside info about her demise whatsoever. I think he let the cops bully him into making up a story based around bits of information that he was fed without even realizing it. He was dealing drugs and even talked about how the cops harassed him all the time in his interview with The Intercept. IMO, he just told the cops what they wanted to hear so they would finally leave him alone.

While I have no idea what happened to Hae that day, I am curious about the discrepancy with Don's time card at LensCrafters. Plus, I always thought it was weird how everyone was so hung up about Adnan not calling her that night or over the next few days but never questioned why Don didn't. He was supposed to see Hae that night IIRC, but he never paged her when she didn't show up (which wasn't typical behavior for her)? Or when he hadn't heard from her in days? And then there's the thing about him not calling the detective back until 1 AM. I'm not saying I think he's guilty of anything, I'm just curious why his alibi wasn't investigated more aggressively.

 

[mrsobrien]

I have a quick question and I do apologize in advance if this has been discussed...Is there a chance of an Alfred Plea in this case?

I don't pretend to know American Law and hope this isn't a foolish question.

Ive listened to all the various pod casts (serial, undisclosed etc) and am truly fascinated with this case.

If you're interested, the Alford plea option for Adnan is discussed in the Undisclosed episode which was aired after the conviction was vacated.

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/vacated.html

 

[mrsobrien]

I personally don't think Jay had anything to do with Hae's murder or had any inside info about her demise whatsoever. I think he let the cops bully him into making up a story based around bits of information that he was fed without even realizing it. He was dealing drugs and even talked about how the cops harassed him all the time in his interview with The Intercept. IMO, he just told the cops what they wanted to hear so they would finally leave him alone.

While I have no idea what happened to Hae that day, I am curious about the discrepancy with Don's time card at LensCrafters. Plus, I always thought it was weird how everyone was so hung up about Adnan not calling her that night or over the next few days but never questioned why Don didn't. He was supposed to see Hae that night IIRC, but he never paged her when she didn't show up (which wasn't typical behavior for her)? Or when he hadn't heard from her in days? And then there's the thing about him not calling the detective back until 1 AM. I'm not saying I think he's guilty of anything, I'm just curious why his alibi wasn't investigated more aggressively.

I couldn't take Jay seriously at all after the Intercept interview. Yet another version of the story, now claiming that he didn't help bury Hae? I believe nothing he's ever said at this point, I don't even factor his testimony or interviews in my opinion now.

Eta - if it's true that people are harassing his family IRL, as claimed the interview, I think that's a terrible thing to do.

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/29...d-serial-case-pt-1/?comments=1#comment-100996

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I couldn't take Jay seriously at all after the Intercept interview. Yet another version of the story, now claiming that he didn't help bury Hae? I believe nothing he's ever said at this point, I don't even factor his testimony or interviews in my opinion now.

Eta - if it's true that people are harassing his family IRL, as claimed the interview, I think that's a terrible thing to do.

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/29...d-serial-case-pt-1/?comments=1#comment-100996

He's guilty as in he and Adnan were equally involved in the setup, the murder, the 'burial' and the cover-up IMO, that's why he lies too, because he doesn't want to admit the whole truth.

 

[Hope4More]

Their primary evidence was Jay Wilds' testimony, which has changed many times. The judge even specifically mentioned in this release today that the state's timeline is inconsistent with Jay's testimony. There is literally zero forensic evidence tying Adnan to the crime. His fingerprints were on a map in her car, which he'd ridden in many times. No one saw him leaving with her that afternoon, in fact their friend Debbie saw them both after school and heard Hae tell Adnan she couldn't give him a ride.

The cell phone info isn't reliable evidence, either. The state has nothing to work with.

The State is a tenacious beast, and my guess is that prosecutors will be especially loathe to cede the battle in such a high profile case.

It sounds like Adnan might be willing to take that plea. Innocent or guilty, can't say as I blame him. He didn't get a fair (second) trial, so no doubt he's feeling a trifle unwilling to let the determined State try once again.

I agree about the lack of forensic evidence, and that absent the cell tower/call records, Jay's lack of credibility will be that much more apparent.

An Alford plea might well be what the State ends up spinning as the best possible outcome, given the very real difficulties of retrying the case.