MN - Philando Castile, 32, shot by police officer, 6 July 2016 #1

[KaaBoom]

This is not the civil rights movement, things have definitely changed, that has already been shown further up in the thread.

Part of the reasons why these things are happening have to do with the high crime rate in black neighborhoods, the elephant in the room that BLM does not want to address. Oh sure they state they want more money dumped there, but guess what, there are whole sections of the country that have similar problems without the crime rate. The economy for EVERYONE is not as advertised, jobs should be everyone's number one issue for ALL. But no, lets concentrate on these people to the exclusion of the country.

The reason why blacks are profiled is because of the rates of crime. The two are connected...

Your logic is flawed. First Philando Castile didn’t commit any crime. You can’t shoot and kill innocent people just because they come from a community with a high crime rate. That is nothing but discrimination. The crime rate has been going down (including the black community), but the number of people being shot and killed by the police is going up. So the crime rate in the black community is just a smokescreen to divert attention from the real issue. BLM should never discuss it. It is not relevant.

This is 100% a civil rights movement. People have a constitutional right to due process. If the person has committed a crime, then they should be arrested for it, not killed by police officers. Seeing that black people are not discriminated against and killed by police because of racial profiling, is probably the single most important civil rights movement, that has ever been fought.

 

[Tillicum]

Philando Castile's funeral procession to begin at 9 a.m. Thursday
After the noon funeral at the St. Paul Cathedral, the public is invited to a reception from 4 to 6 p.m. at J.J. Hill school. Hot dogs and hamburgers will be provided for 1,500 to 2,000 people.

http://www.startribune.com/philando...cession-to-begin-at-9-a-m-thursday/386707601/

 

[Gardenista]

Police chief:
Diamond Lavish and media reporting of the shooting have no basis in reality:

[video=cnn;us/2016/07/13/philando-castile-medical-attention-police-rosa-flores-pkg-nd.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/13/us/police-shootings-investigations/index.html[/video]

 

[Gardenista]

Your logic is flawed. First Philando Castile didn’t commit any crime. You can’t shoot and kill innocent people just because they come from a community with a high crime rate. That is nothing but discrimination. The crime rate has been going down (including the black community), but the number of people being shot and killed by the police is going up. So the crime rate in the black community is just a smokescreen to divert attention from the real issue. BLM should never discuss it. It is not relevant.

This is 100% a civil rights movement. People have a constitutional right to due process. If the person has committed a crime, then they should be arrested for it, not killed by police officers. Seeing that black people are not discriminated against and killed by police because of racial profiling, is probably the single most important civil rights movement, that has ever been fought.

Black people are less likely to be shot by police

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

 

[galiuro]

At least it's something, and judging by the significant decline in homicides, it appears to be working. IMO, it's an investment that is paying off short term with decreasing homicides, and it's paying off long term from not having to pay for incarcerations, health care for gunshot victims and drug addiction. These guys can then go forth and become productive tax paying citizens who give instead of subtract from society.

Given that they would have to get jobs in order to become these productive members of society, something that a whole bunch of already law abiding people have trouble doing, not seeing how well this is going to work once they are off the dole.

 

[bluesneakers]

Black people are less likely to be shot by police

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

From the conclusion:

. On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial differences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically but the racial difference remains roughly constant.

Even when officers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.3 (0.04) percent more likely to endure some form of force. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls.

As police departments across America consider models of community policing such as the Boston Ten Point Coalition, body worn cameras, or training designed to purge officers of implicit bias, our results point to another simple policy experiment: increase the expected price of excessive force on lower level uses of force. To date, very few police departments across the country either collect data on lower level uses of force or explicitly punish officers for misuse of these tactics.

The appealing feature of this type of policy experiment is that it does not require officers to change their behavior in extremely high-stakes environments. Many arguments about police reform fall victim to the “my life versus theirs, us versus them” mantra. Holding officers accountable for the misuse of hands or pushing individuals to the ground is not likely a life or death situation and, as such, may be more amenable to policy change.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

1. Why are you offended by somebody exercising their First Amendment rights? If you are offended by people exercising their Constitutional rights, then you should probably find another line of work. The fact that so many LEOs like you are offended by people exercising their Constitutional rights, is the real problem here.

2. Being Faux News, her comments were probably taken out of context, but here is her entire quote anyway.

"Here are the solutions. We need to abolish the police, period. Demilitarize the police, disarm the police, and we need to come up with community solutions for transformative justice,”.

Saying someone finds a statement offensive does not mean that they don't support people exercising their First Amendment rights. In fact, the things that no one finds offensive are generally the things that don't need First Amendment protection because they go unchallenged. There is an old quote, loosely translated as "I disagree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Even your quote of the woman who wanted to abolish the police is only part of what she said. But regardless, "abolish the police, period" is itself a pretty clear statement.

 

[bluesneakers]

Your logic is flawed. First Philando Castile didn’t commit any crime. You can’t shoot and kill innocent people just because they come from a community with a high crime rate. That is nothing but discrimination. The crime rate has been going down (including the black community), but the number of people being shot and killed by the police is going up. So the crime rate in the black community is just a smokescreen to divert attention from the real issue. BLM should never discuss it. It is not relevant.

This is 100% a civil rights movement. People have a constitutional right to due process. If the person has committed a crime, then they should be arrested for it, not killed by police officers. Seeing that black people are not discriminated against and killed by police because of racial profiling, is probably the single most important civil rights movement, that has ever been fought.

:goodpost:

 

[Irish_Eyes]

From the conclusion:

So much more of a rational position in those comments you posted than I've seen from too many public figures. But he's an academic, so he's not trying to write clickbait articles or get elected or use these tragedies as cover to vent pre-existing biases, etc.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Traffic stops are one of the best tools LE has. Many notorious criminals have been caught because an officer did his job and stopped a car Timothy J. McVeigh. Ted Bundy , terrorists and thousands of other criminals. My point is its necessary. MOO

 

[human]

Traffic stops are one of the best tools LE has. Many notorious criminals have been caught because an officer did his job and stopped a car Timothy J. McVeigh. Ted Bundy , terrorists and thousands of other criminals. My point is its necessary. MOO

No safer way as this is one of the major ways LE dies? No concerns about that? Too bad? They signed up for the job so if they die, that's the way it is?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

:goodpost:

I don't know enough about this incident to know what happened. I do not believe that Castile committed a crime at all. I thought his girlfriend's statements had some ring of truth for me, which I know is subjective for everyone, but still. That was just my take. But I could be wrong and we should wait for all the facts to come out.

Ending slavery, and Jim Crow, which probably resulted in the loss of more black lives in any one year than every cop-related death since combined, those were important civil rights movements. Ending practices that allowed Indian children to be removed from their families and cultures and placed in boarding schools that were more like institutions or prisons, that was a pretty important civil rights struggle. So has been the struggle to implement protections for women from domestic violence - and actually making it, you know, a CRIME, to assault your wife, who is NOT your property - that is an important and ongoing struggle as well.

I support efforts that reduce violence regardless of who that violence is directed at. I don't support narratives that say Muslims are terrorists, Mexicans are rapists, cops are racist killers, or other such factually false things that only exist to direct animosity towards the "other." Those statements are incompatible with support for civil rights.

 

[Beyond Belief]

No safer way as this is one of the major ways LE dies? No concerns about that? Too bad? They signed up for the job so if they die, that's the way it is?

That discussion would have to be with Law Enforcement Agencies since that is their procedure.

 

[KaaBoom]

Black people are less likely to be shot by police

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf

Ignoring the problem is not going to make it go away. Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be shot by the police. They are 12% of the population, but 24% of the police shooting victims.

More important though are some of the statistics. Young black men are 21 times as likely as their white peers to be killed by police.

Deadly Force, in Black and White A ProPublica analysis of killings by police shows outsize risk for young black males.

 

[bluesneakers]

No safer way as this is one of the major ways LE dies? No concerns about that? Too bad? They signed up for the job so if they die, that's the way it is?

From Move Over, America:

More than 150 U.S. law enforcement officers have been killed since 1999 after being struck by vehicles along America's highways, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. To lower that deadly toll, a new coalition of traffic safety and law enforcement groups is launching a nationwide public awareness campaign to protect emergency personnel along our nation's roadsides.

The site says there were 10 fatalities in 2014, and 134 total from 2005 to 2014.

Causes of law enforcement deaths:
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html

http://www.moveoveramerica.com/

 

[Gardenista]

Ignoring the problem is not going to make it go away. Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be shot by the police. They are 12% of the population, but 24% of the police shooting victims.

More important though are some of the statistics. Young black men are 21 times as likely as their white peers to be killed by police.

Deadly Force, in Black and White A ProPublica analysis of killings by police shows outsize risk for young black males.

I'll stick with the study that was just released this month.

 

[bluesneakers]

Ignoring the problem is not going to make it go away. Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be shot by the police. They are 12% of the population, but 24% of the police shooting victims.

More important though are some of the statistics. Young black men are 21 times as likely as their white peers to be killed by police.

Deadly Force, in Black and White A ProPublica analysis of killings by police shows outsize risk for young black males.

Exactly. And trying to dismiss it with claims of "It's not that bad" won't make it go away either. However bad it is is bad enough. It's bad and if everyone's lives matter we should all be trying to fix this problem. JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

As for why the t shirts are offensive

insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/12/chicago-blm-activist-we-need-abolish-police

They want to abolish the police. I find that to be an extremely dangerous statement and as a cop beyond offensive particularly in the current climate.

Faux News, probably took the comment out of context, but here is her entire quote anyway.

"Here are the solutions. We need to abolish the police, period. Demilitarize the police, disarm the police, and we need to come up with community solutions for transformative justice,”.

They are advocating disarming, demilitarizing and disbanding the police and implementing some undefined community policing solution. In the current climate, I fail to see how that is a more dangerous solution then continuing on the current path to endless cycles of police violence followed by civil unrest, which has been going on for at least the last 25 years.

 

[bluesneakers]

Nearly half of people arrested in area where Philando Castile died are black

Police in the suburban St. Paul area where a black man was shot and killed during a traffic stop have disproportionately arrested African-Americans, according to an analysis of data provided by the department that shows nearly half of the people arrested this year in the heavily white community were black.

...

Just 7 per cent of residents are black in St. Anthony and neighbouring Lauderdale and Falcon Heights, according to census data. The St. Anthony police data shows that nearly half of all arrests made by St. Anthony officers were of African-Americans in 2016.
...

All told, roughly 38 per cent of the people arrested by the St. Anthony Police Department since 2011 have been black.

“That is consistent with a pattern of profiling,” said Myron Orfield, who helped conduct a study for the Minnesota Legislature on racial profiling.
...

Much more:

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...ea-where-philando-castile-died-are-black.html

 

[KaaBoom]

Saying someone finds a statement offensive does not mean that they don't support people exercising their First Amendment rights. In fact, the things that no one finds offensive are generally the things that don't need First Amendment protection because they go unchallenged. There is an old quote, loosely translated as "I disagree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

Even your quote of the woman who wanted to abolish the police is only part of what she said. But regardless, "abolish the police, period" is itself a pretty clear statement.

I deleted that part of the post because as soon as I posted it, I realized that I didn’t fully understand the context of the OPs post. That said I have a hard time understanding how someone could be offended by someone expressing a solution for trying to end a spiral of police violence that is tearing the country apart.