GUILTY Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3

[Angeline]

I can't help thinking of poor Stephanie. Happily planning her wedding one minute, confused and terrified the next. Never in a million years could you see that coming, not in a tiny town, not at a school.

I think the public struggles to comprehend the horror of this case. I can't even imagine what her family goes through.

 

[Fuskier]

BBM Given the above information, it is possible that VS took Stephanie back to his house for sometime. As stated above, he would need time to clean the staff room, conceal her body, so he could dump her red mazda, dispose of her computer, then drive out to Cocoparra National Park.

Refreshed my knowledge by reading through the first thread: the Leeton home was declared a crime scene. It was speculated that VS may have kept SS's car concealed in his garage for a few days also. SS's fresh blood was found in his car, so he must have moved her into his vehicle shortly after death i.e. before her blood had congealed. He most likely took her home. IMO.

 

[sleuthermelb]

If Vincent wan't stalking the 12 year old and he didn't expect Stephanie to be at the school that day as has been reported, I wonder what the deal is since it would seem at least the rape was pre-meditated.

I also wonder how it was determined that Vincent raped and murdered Stephanie in a staff room. Was blood evidence left behind? CCTV footage? The comments from senior police re: the brutality of the murder suggest they know what happened to Stephanie prior to the burning of her remains.

 

[sleuthermelb]

I don't seem to be able to edit my last post. In any case, I've remembered police found photos of Stephanie handcuffed post-death on Vincent's phone, which may have clearly shown the staff room.

Earlier news reports indicated the sexual assualt took place between 1:40pm and 2:00pm.

Will all the details ever be known, considering the supression order?

 

[Trooper]

I don't seem to be able to edit my last post. In any case, I've remembered police found photos of Stephanie handcuffed post-death on Vincent's phone, which may have clearly shown the staff room.

Earlier news reports indicated the sexual assualt took place between 1:40pm and 2:00pm.

Will all the details ever be known, considering the supression order?

I recall in the beginning of this case that there was a lot of effort put into steering away any conclusions that the murder had occurred actually in the school, and in the staffroom.. mainly, I think to spare the teachers, particularly and the pupils who were due to return to school in a few days. ..


About the details. The judge will be obliged , under Au Law to account for the crime and each aspect of it during the sentencing. Now.. if there is a suppression order still in effect at that time, then, possibly, no.. It would be still in effect, IF .. IF Vincent's guilty plea to the court alludes to his intended victim, other than Stephanie.. I am not so sure that it does, actually. Where the reporter picked up that snippet, probably at the courthouse, but it wasn't specifically stated that it was part of his guilty plea, makes all the difference. If it was around the traps, or gossip from a guard, or from a cranky and tired detective..... could be.

 

[sleuthermelb]

I recall in the beginning of this case that there was a lot of effort put into steering away any conclusions that the murder had occurred actually in the school, and in the staffroom.. mainly, I think to spare the teachers, particularly and the pupils who were due to return to school in a few days. ..


About the details. The judge will be obliged , under Au Law to account for the crime and each aspect of it during the sentencing. Now.. if there is a suppression order still in effect at that time, then, possibly, no.. It would be still in effect, IF .. IF Vincent's guilty plea to the court alludes to his intended victim, other than Stephanie.. I am not so sure that it does, actually. Where the reporter picked up that snippet, probably at the courthouse, but it wasn't specifically stated that it was part of his guilty plea, makes all the difference. If it was around the traps, or gossip from a guard, or from a cranky and tired detective..... could be.

Thanks so much for the information; much appreciated.

 

[Trooper]

I've been checking back with any sources possible about the 'stalking of a 12 yr old'... mainly MSN , radio and TV press reports, and while there isn't much, and I don't have access to his guilty plea at the court, it doesn't appear likely that this aspect of Vincent's crimes in Leeton was a part of his current guilty plea to Stephanie Scott's murder..

His lawyer hasn't verified it.

The Court hasn't verified it.

No Leeton or Griffith copper has verified it.

No Homicide Detective has verified it.

Which isn't to say it isn't true, it just doesn't appear to be attached to his current guilty plea of murder. ..

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I've been checking back with any sources possible about the 'stalking of a 12 yr old'... mainly MSN , radio and TV press reports, and while there isn't much, and I don't have access to his guilty plea at the court, it doesn't appear likely that this aspect of Vincent's crimes in Leeton was a part of his current guilty plea to Stephanie Scott's murder..

His lawyer hasn't verified it.

The Court hasn't verified it.

No Leeton or Griffith copper has verified it.

No Homicide Detective has verified it.

Which isn't to say it isn't true, it just doesn't appear to be attached to his current guilty plea of murder. ..

Could that be part of the plea deal? Ignore the stalking and obsession with a child and he will plead guilty to all offences concerning Stephanie? It just seems strange that a reporter would make up such a claim but in saying that, wouldn't the court be cleared if this discussion took place? Might have been crossed wires, rumours..........

 

[Trooper]

Could that be part of the plea deal? Ignore the stalking and obsession with a child and he will plead guilty to all offences concerning Stephanie? It just seems strange that a reporter would make up such a claim but in saying that, wouldn't the court be cleared if this discussion took place? Might have been crossed wires, rumours..........

I cant see how it could be part of the plea deal, Primo.. The NSW DPP ( Dept. of Prosecution) would have no trouble attaching that activity to the long string of charges against Vincent, re Stephanie. On the other hand, I don't think a reporter made it up. I think it was out of court gossip, but nothing makes me believe it is far fetched. On the contrary, it has a certain ring of fact to it, on the grounds that Vincent tackling a fully grown savvy woman was always a bit of an odd thing to me. On the scale of things, all things considered, it makes a lot more sense that he had a victim already staked out ( the careful preparations, Viagra, handcuffs, wire, etc) and that victim would by Vincent's standards be most likely much younger, smaller, more easily intimidated. But it certainly annoyed the NSW coppers, so they have shut down all reporting into the matter, until the sentencing. It would have put the people in Leeton into a frenzy of fear and rage, too. ..

Years ago.. 50 years , actually. a film.. The Collector.. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collector_(1965_film) ) laid out a scenario that Vincent has echoed... the meticulous planning, the choosing of the victim, the safe place already prepared to stash the victim, ( Mum and brother away, maybe he intended to keep his victim for a few days, to enhance the experience) all this sort of stuff. He had been there over a year, 4 seasons of checking out who was who in the school, and in town, so unobtrusively that no one knew him or his brother at all. In a small country NSW town!.. astonishing.

 

[Fuskier]

Could that be part of the plea deal? Ignore the stalking and obsession with a child and he will plead guilty to all offences concerning Stephanie? It just seems strange that a reporter would make up such a claim but in saying that, wouldn't the court be cleared if this discussion took place? Might have been crossed wires, rumours..........

Agree PrimeSuspect. The reporter involved is the court reporter for that newspaper, usually has her finger 'on the pulse' and 'ear to the ground' etc.
Most likely part of the 'plea deal' IMHO.
No law suit against the reporter or the newspaper, just an expedient Suppression Order slapped on the wider information surrounding the case as details might frighten the public and cause distress, etc as was quoted in The Irrigator.
"Where there is smoke ..." . My opinion only.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/cri...ea-bargaining/

Plea bargaining
In this section, you will find information about the advantages and disadvantages of plea bargaining, what the NSW and Commonwealth DPP take into account when considering a plea bargain, the advantages and disadvantages of withdrawal of charges and what should go into submissions to the DPP.

A plea bargain usually involves a plea of guilty to a lesser charge in response to the prosecution dropping other charges, or a more serious charge. :thinking:

 

[Trooper]

Vincent didn't have anything to bargain with. He had nothing to give his barrister to take to the DPP and bargain with. The NSW Police had Stephanie's body, it had her manner and method of death, most of her possessions had been reclaimed, the NSW DPP don't need a motive to take the matter to court, and don't need a motive to proceed with the charge of murder.

So I cant see what he would be offering as a plea. He has taken up a hell of a lot of time anyways, that any discount he might be granted for pleading guilty is somewhat lessened by the amount of time it took him to lay that out. Months. Plus, he remained silent while a search requiring members of the public being engaged with the subsequent risk to their lives, in channels and streams and bush, etc.

The NSW police had no reason to offer Vincent anything. His silence didn't interrupt their processes at all. As far as they and the DPP were concerned they had nothing to ask of Vincent at all. No questions, no insights, no explanations, .. nothing of interest , so as far as I can tell the charge against Vincent hasn't been lessened down a few notches at all. It remains what it was from the moment he was taken into custody. Murder. Assorted other bits and pieces , all of which were attached to the original charge.

Vincent's mother , and brother assisted the police in the search and hunt for Stephanie's body, neither Vincent nor Marcus contributed to that event. And once that was concluded, there wasn't anything else the Police required from Vincent, he could sit in Griffith holding cell until the police were ready to proceed to trial.

All Vincent has and has only had was the choice in pleading not guilty or guilty. Not guilty by reason of insanity, he didn't take that one on, presumably because the 'letters from the Doctor in Holland' were not forthcoming or did eventually come and were useless for the matter before the court. Pleading guilty at this stage of the proceedings is the only chance he has of some sort of mitigating pronouncement of his sentencing.. .. He is up for life, regardless, but his matter of being allowed to apply for parole is the only number of years that has significance to Vincent, and to us, the general public.

I suspect the photographs, the pics on the phone were the stumbling block to every barrister in AUstralia. Arguing a non guilty plea with that handicap without a definite proof of insanity is a waste of time and money. Which Vincent hasn't got. So he is , in effect, throwing himself on the mercy of the court , not in the matter of guilt or innocence, and not in the admission of murder which has a mandatory life sentence, but in how long it will be until he can apply for ( that doesn't mean he gets it ) parole in the long distant future.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...r/news-story/246d3a46ffda1e7f4e86aca0fdfcb5d2

THE NATION
Cleaner pleads guilty to teacher Stephanie Scott’s rape, murder
by Sam Buckingham-Jones, July 21, 2016.

...Vincent Stanford was intent on murder but it was only cruel chance that bride-to-be Stephanie Scott crossed his path the day he intended to kill a young girl.
It can now be revealed the cleaner had fantasised about murdering a 12-year-old schoolgirl who happened to be away from Leeton with her family on the day he intended to kill her ...

Interesting, a reputable newspaper such as The Australian also printed VS's alleged intent towards a 12yo local girl - after his 'guilty' plea before Justice Hulme... :thinking:

 

[Fuskier]

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/stat...hanie-scott-killer-intended-12-year-old-girl/

Teacher Stephanie Scott not killer’s intended victim
July 21, 2016

School-cleaner killer Vincent Stanford intended to kill a 12-year-old girl, and not school teacher Stephanie Scott, court documents have revealed...:thinking:
Interesting, the source is cited as: 'court documents revealed'.

A further link citing court documents as the source of the allegations: http://au48.news897.com/post/147787763966/killer-kept-returning-to-body-stephanie-scott

 

[Trooper]

The News Corp story about the 12 yr old doesn't appear to be any part of Vincent's plea of guilty to the court in the matter of Stephanie Scott. It isn't any part of the charges laid against him, and indeed it would be difficult to prosecute Vincent's fantasies, or anyone's , which is the one thing all news sources agree on, that it was one of Vincent's fantasies. Logically, one would reasonably suppose that Vincent himself informed (a) police , or (b ) press or (c) his barrister of this fantasy. How else would it come to light, unless he wrote it down in detail somewhere , which was consequently found. Not improbable. ...

While 'The Australian' a highly disreputable paper , maintains that this gem of news was found among court papers , no one else claims this source. Merely that NewsCorp reports it. I find that claim, 'found among court papers' very suspect, and while not doubting that it was' found among court papers' I doubt that it was found among Vincent's plea papers to the court. Some court paper, but not Vincent's plea papers. It's possible that claim goes back to early days when the possibility of Vincent applying for bail , or perhaps Marcus applying for bail ( an easier hurdle to jump than Vincent) was being mooted about, and this was put forward then. Although the story back then was that Vincent wasn't talking to anyone, and didn't have a barrister or solicitor .

Perhaps Marcus reported it to his Solicitor, chatting in general about Vincent. I don't recall any claims of Marcus ' not talking' to anyone.

It was correct for the police to then issue the suppression order once this story was in MSN. It showed a distinct lack of judgement to print it, and a terrible disregard for any 12 yr old in Leeton, NSW , who may have been in the habit of playing in the schoolground. As if the kids of Leeton are not already scarred and frightened. A teacher being murdered in the Teachers staff room , over Easter , then dragged thru the school to the murderers car, the murderer being someone the kids saw probably every day and it's the only school in town for that age group, it's not as if they can go somewhere else, without travelling 100 klms a day , and the school torn down, like a lot of buildings where murders are committed are... .. ...

 

[Trooper]

one thing that I find curious is why he kept on returning to Cocoparra Park. .. so far, reports are generally unanimous that he returned to the park quite a few times, 'kept on returning'.. 'went back again and again'... the question is, why did he leave it then, and why did he then keep on returning?.. Not that there is any logic to be found, in an illogical act, so a rational reason wont be found, but he must have had some sort of plan that sounded good to him. He could have stayed at Cocoparra.. that makes sense , keeping guard on the destruction of evidence.. He has camped there before .... who would know? no one. but he is really sticking out like a fish in a tree going back and forth to Cocoparra Park from Leeton. On instruction? or on his own independent rationale? ..

Fuel has to be obtained, unless his was a diesel ute. ... he might have just got away with not purchasing fuel .


It is the mindless violence that maintains my attention on these two brothers, twins, and the disbelief that this was their first venture into crime. .. all hidden from their older brother and mother.... Vincent seemed to be particularly talented in this , as he lived in the same house, a small house 24/7 with his mother and older brother. Keeping up the façade of quiet unobtrusive , reclusive school cleaner , day in , day out...

 

[they'll get you]

His plan to rape/murder 12 yr old would have been easier to drive her out of town and drive back, he could have got away with that but when he turned on Stephanie things got complicated. Stephanie had a vehicle to dispose of.

 

[they'll get you]

one thing that I find curious is why he kept on returning to Cocoparra Park. .. so far, reports are generally unanimous that he returned to the park quite a few times, 'kept on returning'.. 'went back again and again'... the question is, why did he leave it then, and why did he then keep on returning?..

RSBM

Did I read somewhere that Stephanie was in a shallow grave? He might have burnt her remains, then returned to bury her. This is the only reason I can think of.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...t/news-story/904b30309fa4392f220cdde97bb83eb5
"... The agreed statement of facts that Stanford would have signed in recognition of his plea has not yet been tendered to the court.
Earlier this month the court heard a plea offer had been “crystallised” by Stanford" ...

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...t/news-story/1d902d533b8af706438789239571026d
Cleaner Vincent Stanford pleads guilty to murder of Stephanie Scott
AMY DALE, Chief court reporter, The Daily Telegraph
July 20, 2016 6:43pm
" ... the plea was entered via video-link.
The agreed statement of facts that Stanford would have signed in recognition of his plea has not yet been tendered to the court"...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

FYI
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...t/news-story/904b30309fa4392f220cdde97bb83eb5
"... The agreed statement of facts that Stanford would have signed in recognition of his plea has not yet been tendered to the court.
Earlier this month the court heard a plea offer had been “crystallised” by Stanford" ...

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...t/news-story/1d902d533b8af706438789239571026d
Cleaner Vincent Stanford pleads guilty to murder of Stephanie Scott
AMY DALE, Chief court reporter, The Daily Telegraph
July 20, 2016 6:43pm
" ... the plea was entered via video-link.
The agreed statement of facts that Stanford would have signed in recognition of his plea has not yet been tendered to the court"...

This could mean the removal of stalking of a child from possible charges? He'd have a harder time in prison as a 'would be' child killer? Could there have been pics of a girl on his phone? My daughter was on a train and some old guy sitting opposite, took a picture of her?! Whatever for, we'll never know, but many people do this, take pics of strangers. It only becomes questionable by the law if the person is involved in an assault or murder and the phone examined.