CA - Unidentified & possible missing victims of Randy Kraft, 1971-1983

[Ambercat]

I was thinking about John Doe #52 "Hawth Off Head" and wondering if he could of had a surname ending in "~off"

 

[CarlK90245]

This might be a long shot, but I was wondering if Steve Losonczi http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/losonczi_steve.html could be Portland Eck or Elk http://doenetwork.org/cases/1281umor.html? I noticed a strong resemblance between the two and the heights and weights are very close.

According to DoeNetwork, "Portland Eck" (i.e., DoeNet 1281UMOR, NamUs UP9991) has been identified. The name of the victim was not disclosed.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/1281umor.html

 

[FiveFelines]

DoeNetwork has revised that and is now saying that was an error. Portland Eck remains unidentified:

"1281UMOR - Relisted - Erroneously marked as identified. Image added, NamUs info added, age range changed from 30-40 to 35-45, identifier availability added."

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1281umor.html

 

[Equestrianista]

For the "Portland Elk/Eck" man...Is it possible he had recently been released from jail or prison since he had no shoe laces? Sorry if I am way off or already been discussed, as I am just now reading up on this.

 

[bflocket]

DoeNetwork has revised that and is now saying that was an error. Portland Eck remains unidentified:

"1281UMOR - Relisted - Erroneously marked as identified. Image added, NamUs info added, age range changed from 30-40 to 35-45, identifier availability added."

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1281umor.html

The false identification sounded like good news (or as "good" as you could get, given the circumstances).

Hopefully it will happen for real some day.

 

[bflocket]

For the "Portland Elk/Eck" man...Is it possible he had recently been released from jail or prison since he had no shoe laces? Sorry if I am way off or already been discussed, as I am just now reading up on this.

I don't know about the shoelaces, but Kraft took several of them from victims. Not sure if he used them as ligatures or not.

You don't really wear "shoes" in jail. You change into a jumpsuit-thingy and they give you something akin to sandals or flip-flops.

 

[micheleonelonly]

For the "Portland Elk/Eck" man...Is it possible he had recently been released from jail or prison since he had no shoe laces? Sorry if I am way off or already been discussed, as I am just now reading up on this.

If Kraft didn't take the laces, it's possible that John Doe had spent time in a mental hospital. Some of them allow you to wear your own shoes, and those that do take your laces.

 

[FieryDee]

If he was keeping the victims for any amount of time he might have taken shoelaces and belts from them so they could not use them to defend themselves....

 

[jenjust]

Hello,

I am new to the site and this is my first post so forgive me if this is not in the correct location.

My father was murdered in September of 1976, he was a John Doe for about a week. He was found in Big Sur at the bottom of an embankment partially in a creek. It is an unsolved case and I have gotten very little assistance from the Sheriffs Office. In doing my own research I came across Randy Kraft and due to a large amount of similarities began to suspect that my father may be one of his victims. A private detective assisted me for a while and agreed with me but the current cold case detective was unwilling to even look at the possibility. About 3 years ago (10 years after my previous contact) the Sheriffs Office contacted us stating they believe my fathers murder is connected to the Kraft case and wanted information about what he was wearing and what personal items he had with him when he was last seen, they said they checked the evidence trailer that the Los Angeles Sheriffs Office has and they were unable to find any matches but that upon further review he does not believe my father is a Kraft victim as Kraft did not typically operate that far north. I informed him of the Oregon victims but did not receive a response. In looking over the scorecard and I feel pretty strongly that the entry "Big Sur" and the victim associated with that entry is incorrect... The reason listed is that the victim mentioned wanting to go there/visiting there/or moving there. Most of the entries on that scorecard are directly related to the way they were killed, places they were found, or identifying marks on the victim, except that one entry. Also it was originally believed Kraft took a break between late 1975 and 1978, later that was changed to include the December of 1976 Murder of Paul Fuchs, which, given Krafts track record would be highly unlikely, in my opinion. Which means there are a lot of men to account for over that nearly 3 year time span.

Due to the specifics in my fathers case I believe that some victims have not been connected to Kraft due to either poor/incomplete autopsy or a belief that Kraft stuck to the same M.O. with every victim and I personally think he changed things up a bit now and then. Not all were mutilated, not all were drugged (or found to be drugged), some strangled and some not...

I have read through this thread pretty well and would be greatly interested in any thoughts or opinions anyone would like to contribute to my situation.

Also I have seen a post or two about photos that were shown at one point in time... does anyone know how or where I might be able to see those photos?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and I apologize for the excessive length of the post.

 

[Backwoods]

jenjust, I don't know much about the Kraft cases, but I know that those who do will be along in time and offer you some useful thoughts.

In the meantime, I just wanted to say ...

:Welcome1:

...to Websleuths. I am so sorry about your father. I hope you will be able to find the answers that you seek.

Hello,

I am new to the site and this is my first post so forgive me if this is not in the correct location.

My father was murdered in September of 1976, he was a John Doe for about a week. He was found in Big Sur at the bottom of an embankment partially in a creek. It is an unsolved case and I have gotten very little assistance from the Sheriffs Office. In doing my own research I came across Randy Kraft and due to a large amount of similarities began to suspect that my father may be one of his victims. A private detective assisted me for a while and agreed with me but the current cold case detective was unwilling to even look at the possibility. About 3 years ago (10 years after my previous contact) the Sheriffs Office contacted us stating they believe my fathers murder is connected to the Kraft case and wanted information about what he was wearing and what personal items he had with him when he was last seen, they said they checked the evidence trailer that the Los Angeles Sheriffs Office has and they were unable to find any matches but that upon further review he does not believe my father is a Kraft victim as Kraft did not typically operate that far north. I informed him of the Oregon victims but did not receive a response. In looking over the scorecard and I feel pretty strongly that the entry "Big Sur" and the victim associated with that entry is incorrect... The reason listed is that the victim mentioned wanting to go there/visiting there/or moving there. Most of the entries on that scorecard are directly related to the way they were killed, places they were found, or identifying marks on the victim, except that one entry. Also it was originally believed Kraft took a break between late 1975 and 1978, later that was changed to include the December of 1976 Murder of Paul Fuchs, which, given Krafts track record would be highly unlikely, in my opinion. Which means there are a lot of men to account for over that nearly 3 year time span.

Due to the specifics in my fathers case I believe that some victims have not been connected to Kraft due to either poor/incomplete autopsy or a belief that Kraft stuck to the same M.O. with every victim and I personally think he changed things up a bit now and then. Not all were mutilated, not all were drugged (or found to be drugged), some strangled and some not...

I have read through this thread pretty well and would be greatly interested in any thoughts or opinions anyone would like to contribute to my situation.

Also I have seen a post or two about photos that were shown at one point in time... does anyone know how or where I might be able to see those photos?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and I apologize for the excessive length of the post.

 

[Ambercat]

HC864, found on March 25th, 1978 ”in front of a home at the 3700 block of East Hammel Street in East L.A.” Sounds to me like he was dumped there. Without clothing or jewelry too, according to the case information.

HC541, found on June 27th, 1978 in an orange grove in Irvine, Orange County. I was wondering a bit about the wording ”tie around neck”. Somehow it doesn’t sound like he was wearing it, when compared to the list of his (other) clothing, so maybe he was strangled with it?

HC1864, found on March 28th, 1979 and May 22th, 1979 - his head and body had been separated. The body was found first, in Mount Baldy Village and the head in May in Claremont. Kraft had dismembered some of his victims, some of them in 1979, like 76 John Doe and Gregory Jolley (LAKES MC).

I was able to locate two articles from the Orange County Register (might have been the Santa Ana Register back then) about HC541 (http://ocsd.org/divisions/prof/coroner/ud/john/7802721l, https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7651), one from June 29, 1978 (El Toro John Doe Shot Coroner Says) and the other from July 7, 1978 (Identity of Body Found in OC Still a Mystery). If the June 29th article is accurate about the cause of death being a gunshot wound to the neck (the July 7th article seems to backtrack about cause of death), I have doubts about him being a victim of Randy Kraft. When he was found, it sounded like LE believed that he was from Latin America and entered the US without documentation.

 

[Ambercat]

A while ago, I came across two articles about David Michael Sandt who was found stabbed to death with his pants pulled down in the yard of a vacant house near the intersection of Second St and Kennebec in Long Beach on January 13, 1975. He was about the same age as Randy Kraft's first known victim, Wayne Joseph Dukette. So far, I have been unable to learn if Mr. Sandt's homicide was ever solved.

The location of his body was only a few blocks from where Randy Kraft was living at the time and David Sandt's homicide occurred between John Leras ("skates") and Craig Jonaites ("golden sails"). Interestingly, the Social Security Death Index states that David Michael Sandt's Social Security number was issued in Iowa. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V3XL-V47

 

[JupiterAmmon]

I think the MV to PL could likely be Mission Viejo to Point Loma (in SD). I think a few of the other victims were hitchhikers to/from OC and SD area.

 

[JupiterAmmon]

Also, looking at the actual photograph of the list - do we know what the crossed out ones originally read? If not, it seems like something forensics could easily solve. It would be interesting to know why they were crossed out - especially for the one that does not have any text to replace what was blacked out like the other ones do.

 

[niall]

Couldn't 59 OIL also be connected to this place?
13. PIER 2--Thomas Paxton Lee, 25, of Long Beach, found Aug. 3, 1974, on a pier in an oil field area of Long Beach Harbor, fully clothed. Cause of death was strangulation

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Hello,

I am new to the site and this is my first post so forgive me if this is not in the correct location.

My father was murdered in September of 1976, he was a John Doe for about a week. He was found in Big Sur at the bottom of an embankment partially in a creek. It is an unsolved case and I have gotten very little assistance from the Sheriffs Office. In doing my own research I came across Randy Kraft and due to a large amount of similarities began to suspect that my father may be one of his victims. A private detective assisted me for a while and agreed with me but the current cold case detective was unwilling to even look at the possibility. About 3 years ago (10 years after my previous contact) the Sheriffs Office contacted us stating they believe my fathers murder is connected to the Kraft case and wanted information about what he was wearing and what personal items he had with him when he was last seen, they said they checked the evidence trailer that the Los Angeles Sheriffs Office has and they were unable to find any matches but that upon further review he does not believe my father is a Kraft victim as Kraft did not typically operate that far north. I informed him of the Oregon victims but did not receive a response. In looking over the scorecard and I feel pretty strongly that the entry "Big Sur" and the victim associated with that entry is incorrect... The reason listed is that the victim mentioned wanting to go there/visiting there/or moving there. Most of the entries on that scorecard are directly related to the way they were killed, places they were found, or identifying marks on the victim, except that one entry. Also it was originally believed Kraft took a break between late 1975 and 1978, later that was changed to include the December of 1976 Murder of Paul Fuchs, which, given Krafts track record would be highly unlikely, in my opinion. Which means there are a lot of men to account for over that nearly 3 year time span.

Due to the specifics in my fathers case I believe that some victims have not been connected to Kraft due to either poor/incomplete autopsy or a belief that Kraft stuck to the same M.O. with every victim and I personally think he changed things up a bit now and then. Not all were mutilated, not all were drugged (or found to be drugged), some strangled and some not...

I have read through this thread pretty well and would be greatly interested in any thoughts or opinions anyone would like to contribute to my situation.

Also I have seen a post or two about photos that were shown at one point in time... does anyone know how or where I might be able to see those photos?

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and I apologize for the excessive length of the post.

What is everyone's opinion on this post? Is it possible this man is a Kraft victim?

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

What is everyone's opinion on this post? Is it possible this man is a Kraft victim?

I'm sure it's possible, but it's hard to draw any conclusion without more information. I'd like to know the cause of death, if he fit the victim profile, when and where he was last seen, what makes them suspect Kraft, etc.

 

[Gourami Watcher]

Jeffrey Sayre's NamUs page was pulled recently, possibly indicating he was located / recovered. None of the other Kraft UID victims were, so he wasn't identified as one of them.

 

[jenjust]

Sorry for the long delay... life gets in the way sometimes. His official cause of death was a rotational fracture of a vertebrae in his neck he was found nude down an embankment halfway in a small creek, the autopsy notes his blood alcohol although I cannot remember the number i believe it was at or near the current legal limit. He was a John Doe for several days identified by his finger prints. He does fit the victim profile, he was a Marine at Camp Pendleton, he was last seen in Rosemead near the freeway on ramp, he intended to hitchhike to LA to find a job (this story changes depending what family member you speak to). His clothing and personal belongings were never found, it is noted that he had scratches all over him from the manzanita brush and there was a note regarding drag marks in the gravel at the top of the embankment that was not mentioned after the initial report, so I have no idea if that was determined to be incorrect later on or not. We were told his adrenaline levels were high and he appeared to have been beaten prior to being killed and they believe he probably attempt to run away from someone, but I have gotten different stories on that as well depending on who is in charge of the cold or unsolved cases in Monterrey County. The autopsy report doesn't say much and doesn't appear to be complete, I have been told that due to it being "common practice" for general doctors to perform autopsies at the time the autopsy just wasn't as good as it is now that pathologists do it. As for when he was last seen, I believe it was something like a week before his body was found, it was not long enough that anyone would have thought he was missing, in fact my mother remembers seeing on the news that there was a John Doe found and didn't even pay attention to it.

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

I wouldn't rule it out, but there's not enough to convince me one way or the other. How old was he? Were there any signs of sexual activity or torture? I would agree, though, that the autopsy report sounds incomplete.