Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

Status
Not open for further replies.
This family tree does not match the one that I have assumed was for our Margaret Kukoda, so it appears that there were two Margaret Kukoda's that are very close in age and born and/or living in eastern Pennsylvania. Once again, we have been struck by the "Curse of Wierd Coincidences".
 
Dr. Doogie said:
This family tree does not match the one that I have assumed was for our Margaret Kukoda, so it appears that there were two Margaret Kukoda's that are very close in age and born and/or living in eastern Pennsylvania. Once again, we have been struck by the "Curse of Wierd Coincidences".
Hi Everyone-

I brought up this "second Margaret" back in August. Refer to:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1132801#post1132801

HoT & I were trying to determine if our Margaret had stolen the real Margaret's identity.
 
Good job, mfm and Hot! Sorry it slipped by me back then. (It only tooks us a few months to get caught up with you - LOL!)

BTW, is HeartofTexas still active on the forum? I haven't seen her for awhile. She and I fell down on different sides of a whizzing match on another thread and I hope that she didn't think that there was anything personal involved - I always thought that she was a great researcher and an asset to any case that she contributed to. I miss her!
 
I haven't seen HoT for a while.

A search shows no posts since Oct.

I felt there were so many "coincidences" between the two Margarets that it was worth checking into it.
 
mfmangel1 said:
I haven't seen HoT for a while.

A search shows no posts since Oct.
That is when the whizzing match occured. I hope that she didn't get soured on WS in general and comes back soon.
 
mfmangel1 said:
I haven't seen HoT for a while.

A search shows no posts since Oct.

I felt there were so many "coincidences" between the two Margarets that it was worth checking into it.
She may not be posting anywhere, but I see on her profile she has been on WS today... maybe if we shout out at her to come back?
 
I got this message from someone on MySpace:

i know this is a long shot but my husband is in the military and we are currently in guam...i was reading through the websleuths posts (im not finished yet maybe when i read further down i will have my answer) but i came across this post by *itsreenw*

"Would GB have been the right age to serve in WW II? I was on a site for lost friends in the military and coincidentally a boy was looking for info on his granddad, George Brody that served in Guam and a girl named Effie was looking for her grandfather's military friends
that served in Guam also. Made me say "what if" GB was obsessed with his service buddy's granddaughter years ago and Anna reminded him of her"


maybe theres something i can do while i am here...maybe try to find info or someone who may remember something?? could anna be in guam?? do you think?? please email me back with any information...thanks! =)

I'm not completely "up" on everything that's known about GB...is there any pertinent info I could pass along to her?
 
omg weird coincidences keep happing someone looking for george brody the girl named effie looking for family how bizzar is that? something has to fit
 
Gina_M said:
I got this message from someone on MySpace:

i know this is a long shot but my husband is in the military and we are currently in guam...i was reading through the websleuths posts (im not finished yet maybe when i read further down i will have my answer) but i came across this post by *itsreenw*

"Would GB have been the right age to serve in WW II? I was on a site for lost friends in the military and coincidentally a boy was looking for info on his granddad, George Brody that served in Guam and a girl named Effie was looking for her grandfather's military friends
that served in Guam also. Made me say "what if" GB was obsessed with his service buddy's granddaughter years ago and Anna reminded him of her"


maybe theres something i can do while i am here...maybe try to find info or someone who may remember something?? could anna be in guam?? do you think?? please email me back with any information...thanks! =)

I'm not completely "up" on everything that's known about GB...is there any pertinent info I could pass along to her?
I sure hate to discourage a volunteer, but I don't see how George Brody could have been in the military and not left any trace of himself anywhere--no SSN, no birth certificate, etc. We don't even know if that's his real name. As for the "Effie", the name he had put on Anna's birth certificate was spelled EIFEE, so I don't think there's a connection there. The person we knew as George Brody was probably born around 1900 or so, which would make him a little old to serve in WWII. Doogie also has placed him in San Francisco after a certain year, but I don't remember what that was.
 
These are just ideas and speculations:

Dr Doogie & Annasmom - In the BFH, among the rantings, are there many that relate GB's theories to; tarot card readings/tarot card imagery, the hebrew alphabet, demonology, the Knights Templar, astral projection or The Rose Cross (Rosy Cross, Christian Rosenkreutz?) Because, I'm not getting much an "occultist" vibe from what I've read about GB so far in these forums. Also, I've read that he considered himself "a messiah", but did he or GW recite and/or spout off quotes from religious texts on a regular basis?

At this point, GB looks more like he was into the kind of mystical psychology/ psychiatry that Freud was referring to when he warned Carl Jung: "Never abandon the sexual theory, Carl, its the only thing which separates us from the occultists" (or something like that).

There is a connection between certain schools of psychology (not necessarily popular today) and certain "flavors" of Socialism. Wilhelm Reich, another member of Freud's Vienna Psychoanalytic Association, wrote the definitive psychological analysis of Fascism - the political mortal enemy of the early socialists and communists - titled: "The Mass Psychology of Fascism". Could GB have been a cross between a Socialist theorist and a failed mystical psychology "analyst"? Perhaps he dumped an earlier identity during or shortly after WW2, because he had been a communist in his youth?
[I must apologize. I read most of this forum in one (looong) sitting and should have made better notes for myself. I got GW's sister (member of the Socialist Workers Party) confused in my mind with Margaret Kukoda. That's why I thought a link between some of the more mystical schools of psychology and some Socialist 'sects' might be interesting. Now that I understand the link to Socialism(s) is thru George Waters' family, that idea (in the preceding paragraph) seems of little relevance to me.]

Are there any hints that GW may have become obsessed with GB as a result of Brody predicting/foreseeing the date and circumstances of GW's death - using his mystical psychiatric analysis? They both seemed convinced that GW would pass away before Brody - otherwise, why bother with all the insurance policies? - and convinced that GW would die accidentally.

They also seemed very concerned that the monies should go to Brody and only Brody. Perhaps they believed GW's foretold death would somehow spark the fulfillment of Brody's mission (giving GW's life, and death, a mystical importance of its own) and that Brody would need a lot of money to enact it?

The apparent changing of beneficiaries, and evidence that GW was obsessed with ensuring that Brody & only Brody be seen by officialdom as GW's 'next-of-kin' and presumably as GW's only heir in event of his death, could provide motive for GW's daughter to be 'vanished' - the potential threat of a legal challenge from a legally legitimate heir of GW (Anna) to Brody being recognized as GW's next-of-kin and heir?
 
Roy Harrold said:
These are just ideas and speculations:

At this point, GB looks more like he was into the kind of mystical psychology/ psychiatry that Freud was referring to when he warned Carl Jung: "Never abandon the sexual theory, Carl, its the only thing which separates us from the occultists" (or something like that).

There is a connection between certain schools of psychology (not necessarily popular today) and certain "flavors" of Socialism. Wilhelm Reich, another member of Freud's Vienna Psychoanalytic Association, wrote the definitive psychological analysis of Fascism - the political mortal enemy of the early socialists and communists - titled: "The Mass Psychology of Fascism". Could GB have been a cross between a Socialist theorist and a failed mystical psychology "analyst"? Perhaps he dumped an earlier identity during or shortly after WW2, because he had been a communist in his youth?

Are there any hints that GW may have become obsessed with GB as a result of Brody predicting/foreseeing the date and circumstances of GW's death - using his mystical psychiatric analysis? They both seemed convinced that GW would pass away before Brody - otherwise, why bother with all the insurance policies? - and convinced that GW would die accidentally.

They also seemed very concerned that the monies should go to Brody and only Brody. Perhaps they believed GW's foretold death would somehow spark the fulfillment of Brody's mission (giving GW's life, and death, a mystical importance of its own) and that Brody would need a lot of money to enact it?

The apparent changing of beneficiaries, and evidence that GW was obsessed with ensuring that Brody & only Brody be seen by officialdom as GW's 'next-of-kin' and presumably as GW's only heir in event of his death, could provide motive for GW's daughter to be 'vanished' - the potential threat of a legal challenge from a legally legitimate heir of GW (Anna) to Brody being recognized as GW's next-of-kin and heir?
This all makes sense to me. Brody did refer to Hitler a number of times in my hearing, and GW actually wrote two letters to the widow of a famous Nazi, asking her specifics about poisons. This post seems significant, and I need to read it several more times.
 
Roy Harrold said:
The apparent changing of beneficiaries, and evidence that GW was obsessed with ensuring that Brody & only Brody be seen by officialdom as GW's 'next-of-kin' and presumably as GW's only heir in event of his death, could provide motive for GW's daughter to be 'vanished' - the potential threat of a legal challenge from a legally legitimate heir of GW (Anna) to Brody being recognized as GW's next-of-kin and heir?
This is as good a theory of motivation as any we've come up with. Thanks, Roy.
 
Roy Harrold said:
In the BFH, among the rantings, are there many that relate GB's theories to; tarot card readings/tarot card imagery, the hebrew alphabet, demonology, the Knights Templar, astral projection or The Rose Cross (Rosy Cross, Christian Rosenkreutz?) Because, I'm not getting much an "occultist" vibe from what I've read about GB so far in these forums. Also, I've read that he considered himself "a messiah", but did he or GW recite and/or spout off quotes from religious texts on a regular basis?
At this point, GB looks more like he was into the kind of mystical psychology/ psychiatry that Freud was referring to when he warned Carl Jung: "Never abandon the sexual theory, Carl, its the only thing which separates us from the occultists" (or something like that).

I wanted to add this: Though none of the occult terms and fields mentioned in this post ever came up to my knowledge, GB did claim he could "read the akashic records" (he pronounced this ah-kay-shic) and he used this claim to "authenticate" his predictions and analyses. An interesting thing which comes up with regard to this post is that GW's sister, a member of the Socialist Workers Party, was the only member of the family who didn't come under fire from Brody.
 
Annasmom said:
I wanted to add this: Though none of the occult terms and fields mentioned in this post ever came up to my knowledge, GB did claim he could "read the akashic records" (he pronounced this ah-kay-shic) and he used this claim to "authenticate" his predictions and analyses. An interesting thing which comes up with regard to this post is that GW's sister, a member of the Socialist Workers Party, was the only member of the family who didn't come under fire from Brody.
I must apologize. I read most of this forum in one (looong) sitting and should have made better notes for myself. I got GW's sister (member of the Socialist Workers Party) confused in my mind with Margaret Kukoda. That's why I thought a link between some of the more mystical schools of psychology and some Socialist 'sects' might be interesting. Now that I understand the link to
Socialism(s) is thru George Waters' family, that idea seems of little relevance to me. I will amend my original post (as cleanly as I can) to indicate that idea was born of my confusion.

Thank you, Annasmom for you speedy feedback and the info you've added! I was looking for some kind of specific references - to place the Brody rantings which Dr Doogie kindly scanned and posted, into some kind of context. This info: "Though none of the occult terms and fields mentioned in this post ever came up to my knowledge, GB did claim he could "read the akashic records" (he pronounced this ah-kay-shic) and he used this claim to "authenticate" his predictions and analyses." hits the nail on the head and will be very helpful to me.

Dr D - My thoughts on a possible motive were inspired by your own (and several other people's) deductions & speculations - from a way-back posting where you declared "these so-and-sos DID IT!" and related postings about "The Plan".

So, with my confusion now cleared up a bit, I'm thinking;

- Brody strikes me as someone who tried to graft Madame Blavatsky school Theosophy in with a spiritual/mystical psychoanalysis - not as a devotee of any established metaphysical/occult or religious traditions, organizations or "cults". If that is true, the probability that he might have been a solitary theorist before meeting Waters would go up and the likelihood of finding other members of a hypothetical Brody-led group (who might have been involved in hiding Anna, as someone proposed) would go down...unfortunately.

- I see circumstantial evidence supporting the idea that a very precise, specific Brody prediction about the date and circumstances of Waters' death could have been a strong part of their bond. If a forecast of that nature did happen, it might have included 'promises' that Waters and his death (and the insurance policy monies designated to Brody thru Waters' death) would play a kind of "John the Baptist" role and glory - setting in motion the fulfillment of whatever Brody imagined his "true purpose" to be.

- The info provided in this forum, about GW's obsession with having Brody recognised by 'authorities' as GW's next-of-kin contact, combined with the multiple insurance policies naming Brody (not Anna) as beneficiary, and the seemingly nonsensical Plan to buy more policies that would name his natural next of kin and heir (Anna) as beneficiary - pump up their value and then switch the beneficiary to Brody - suggest to me that one or the other or both of these men might have viewed Anna as a potential legal threat to their plans (whatever those were).
 
Roy Harrold said:
- The info provided in this forum, about GW's obsession with having Brody recognised by 'authorities' as GW's next-of-kin contact, combined with the multiple insurance policies naming Brody (not Anna) as beneficiary, and the seemingly nonsensical Plan to buy more policies that would name his natural next of kin and heir (Anna) as beneficiary - pump up their value and then switch the beneficiary to Brody - suggest to me that one or the other or both of these men might have viewed Anna as a potential legal threat to their plans (whatever those were).
Roy, certainly we can't rule this out, but consider also that Brody called himself Anna's "godfather without portfolio", insisted on changing her name so that she would have a "stronger" name, the same as his (in his system of numerology, whatever that was), that GW insisted on joint custody and said before he left the home that he was "in love with the baby"...these things, added to the fact that they had designated me as a terrible person, might add up more to getting Anna away from my influence than getting rid of her. Also, I wanted to tell you that Brody did have some system of astrology to which he referred frequently and which didn't correspond to anything I had read in the newspapers, for instance. I am interested in your interpretation of this and the akashic records thing.
 
Annasmom - I did not mean to imply "getting rid of".
I don't know if minors are an exception to this, but when adults vanish without a trace - after a set period of time they are declared "presumed deceased" for legal purposes. A "presumed deceased" person cannot be anyone's next of kin or heir.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this unusual system of astrology and anything else you can recall about Brody's statements about his relationship with the akashic record, psychic powers he may have claimed to possess, interactions with the spirit world he may have claimed to have experienced, etc. Did he call himself a Christian? Did he use any monikers of a religious nature, i.e., calling himself a priest, deacon, monk, "Father", etc? Any mention of "secret cheifs" or otherworldly beings including Gods that he believed himself to be a servant of?
 
Roy Harrold said:
I'd be interested in hearing more about this unusual system of astrology and anything else you can recall about Brody's statements about his relationship with the akashic record, psychic powers he may have claimed to possess, interactions with the spirit world he may have claimed to have experienced, etc. Did he call himself a Christian? Did he use any monikers of a religious nature, i.e., calling himself a priest, deacon, monk, "Father", etc? Any mention of "secret chiefs" or otherworldly beings including Gods that he believed himself to be a servant of?

He referred to himself as a Leo, an egoist, a "number twenty-seven", but nothing of a religious nature. He once said Jesus was "in error" or somesuch, but I can't remember the specifics--except that I was frightened and offended. I really did think he was evil. He didn't refer to himself as Christian and didn't claim to be affiliated with any particular faith. He would make astrological references such as "the moon in Pisces" to explain behavior of whoever he was describing, but his references didn't actually correspond with birthdates, and he never explained how he got these references. Re psychic powers, he claimed he could read past, present and future, but never went into how or why, at least not in my hearing. Whenever he was at the house, he had to have a glass of brandy, as though it was a trial for him to speak with lesser beings...he claimed not to drink liquor otherwise.
 
In reading Brody's rants, they less resembled religious writings than ego-driven philosophical diatribes. He did incorporate some "new age" terminology, but it seemed closer to the sort of discussions that a college student might spout thinking that he was being profound and wise - all the time, showing the foolishness of uninformed wisdom.
 
Dr. Doogie said:
In reading Brody's rants, they less resembled religious writings than ego-driven philosophical diatribes. He did incorporate some "new age" terminology, but it seemed closer to the sort of discussions that a college student might spought thinking that he was being profound and wise - all the time, showing the foolishness of uninformed wisdom.
Thank you! Your opinion and analysis of the materials is very valuable to me.

I'm hunting for traces of possible connections to organizations, which could potentially be of assistance in confirming Brody's identity, or through which he might have recruited help with 'hiding' Anna if indeed he was involved in her disappearance.

I'm sorry to say that I'm not finding much. It's possible that he might have been a member of a Theosophical Society at some point in time, but their teachings have also been widely disseminated through writings and public lectures. If he had been consecrated as a wandering Bishop or something, through one of the Theosophy-associated religious orders, there would be lots of tracibility and documentation - but with the kind of ego he is described to have had I can't imagine him not rubbing such 'titled-ness' in everyone's faces. So, I conclude that to be a very remote possibility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
208
Guests online
3,445
Total visitors
3,653

Forum statistics

Threads
592,256
Messages
17,966,285
Members
228,734
Latest member
TexasCuriousMynd
Back
Top