FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[slanda]

I only watched his "I don't need to take steroids (anymore) video". I saw him as off and suffering some degree of depression in that one video.

I'm not able to watch his other videos due to my computer fan problems. Let me ask those of you who have watched his videos if you would be concerned as a parent that he might have some mental problems? Those videos will be mentioned if this becomes a mental insanity trial because the videos have been mentioned in almost every news article.

I guess my answer to the question is: I don't think it matters what his defense is. I don't think anyone in their "right" mind does what he did. I think he probably will meet the criteria for an insanity plea. I don't think he's mentally competent from what I have seen or read and that's the way our justice system is set up.

I also highly doubt this will go to trial. If there is enough evidence of his mental insufficiencies then the State cannot put him to death. That's just the law. If the State truly believes he does not meet the legal definition of insanity, then, they will try him and go for the DP.

I personally believe AH will meet the standard for insanity and a trial will never happen.

 

[Curious Me]

Five months ago is when he started those youtube videos. It's possible his family was unaware of the videos though.

His online presence is scant save for a now deleted Facebook page and an infrequently used Twitter account. But his YouTube channel, activated five months ago, provides a glimpse into the teen's more personal side.

In the channel’s description, Harrouff writes: “I’ve got a psycho side and a normal side. I’ve lost my mind. Help me find it.”

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...in-harrouffs-bizarre-online-persona/88918500/

Granted, I don't know if these were his own words or a rip off from a song, but I find the words disturbing.

In a July 11 rap video titled, “You Do You Freestyle,” he sings: “I’d rather cut using a knife and slit my own throat. I’m like Bugs Bunny, I stick my teeth in because it’s funny. I’m like a Looney Tune, I take a lot of shrooms.”

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...in-harrouffs-bizarre-online-persona/88918500/

 

[Curious Me]

I guess my answer to the question is: I don't think it matters what his defense is. I don't think anyone in their "right" mind does what he did. I think he probably will meet the criteria for an insanity plea. I don't think he's mentally competent from what I have seen or read and that's the way our justice system is set up.

I also highly doubt this will go to trial. If there is enough evidence of his mental insufficiencies then the State cannot put him to death. That's just the law. If the State truly believes he does not meet the legal definition of insanity, then, they will try him and go for the DP.

I personally believe AH will meet the standard for insanity and a trial will never happen.

Oh, I'm pretty sure it will go to trial. It might not be a Death Penalty trial, but he will have to stand trial. I'm following one case where the insane suspect was sent to a state mental hospital for over a year and is now stabilized enough to be able to stand trial, and it's a DP trial. Also look at James Holmes who had to stand trial. AH isn't just going to be sent to a hospital and everyone forget about it.

 

[CARIIS]

Good Lord -- I just read about this ....wow...............................

 

[helmut3585]

That is the most accurate read on the situation based on what we know. No doubt, in the coming days, there will be more tales of this guy's bizarre behavior. This is in the early stage. The videos themselves are relatively innocuous except for his utterance of having a deranged side and his confession that he's lost his mind. Those are only significant because of what we suspect: he was in the process or had already developed full-blown paranoid schizophrenia. This resonates with his mom's clueless observations regarding his psychotic sense of the self: "immortality," how he is like a comic book superhero and is here to protect people. That and the fact that he invited the deputies to shoot him.

You put this all together and the best scenario is schizophrenia driven by hallucinations. Flakka is suspected because he is "extremely strong" and became cannibalistic. But he is a football player and wrestler obsessed with weightlifting and bodybuilding. With severe schizophrenia, you sometimes end up with self-mutilations and cannibalistic attack. That's why they often have to be put in strait jackets.

The only reason I wanted to chime in was because the drug Flakka was being used as a possible reason for his madness when, IMO, Flakka had nothing to do with it. I truly believe AH suffers from paranoid schizophrenia (and probably more comorbid personality disorders/ mood disorders/ anxiety disorders) and had a complete psychotic break. I also believe the Steriods magnified his illness and aggravated his already fragile mind.

 

[Curious Me]

Austin Harrouff's family releases statement regarding gruesome double homicide
Investigators release new surveillance video
http://www.wptv.com/news/national/a...-statement-regarding-gruesome-double-homicide

Charges Harrouff will face include:
• First-degree murder in the death of Mishcon
• First-degree murder in the death of Stevens
• Attempted first-degree murder in the attempted killing of Fisher
• Burglary of a dwelling while armed
• Resisting an officer without violence

Below is the full statement from the Harrouff family:

The Harrouff family expresses their deepest sympathy for the pain and suffering caused by Austin Harrouff.

The Harrouff family loves Austin as they know the Stevens and Mischon families loved John Stevens III and Michelle Mischon. There are no words we can offer to give any real comfort for this tragic loss.

There are no words we can offer that we can make up for the injury sustained by Jeff Fisher who is doing what we would want all good neighbors to do which was to try to help innocent people from being hurt or killed.

We love our son and know that he is not the person some are making him to be for their own purposes. We will allow the full legal process to find the full facts and the truth here.

While we respect the freedom of the press, we would ask the media to respect our own privacy at this very difficult time.

 

[CARIIS]

Spent some time on his you tube channel .

Totally off topic. In this video they went boating. Stirred up stuff --sharing - Hope ya enjoy a chuckle!

"The Boat"


UGH. Bought back so many horrible memories. I dispised going boating with my family. Mainly my father. Hated it. He is a perfectionist. It is soooo much work. Getting everything together, cooler, food. oil, skis, boogie board, cushions, loading everything into the car. You had to load everything exactly in a certain order - everything had a place.

Then schlep it all onto the boat. Again everything in the place. In a certain compartment on the boat, in an order. Exhasted before the boat was even off the trailer!

Ugh the trailer , he had to line the boat up perfect . Back and forth right and left. NASA lauched the space shuttle quicker than we launched the damn boat!! Hold this rope , push here a little ,tighter -- it was awful!!

Time for some sking. Out come the skies, the ropes, the floatation devices. Then tie all the ropes to the boat, in a special knot (could never do it! Boring tying ropes sorry! Ironically I did like the boy scouts!)

Then the rope has to go over board , then the line has to get lined up. Then he would perfectly get the boat ,one of us, and boat lined up for launch. My sister got up and stayed up often. I did not fare as well - which translates to all the lining up everything had to start over--again! And then again.

You have to realize that folks ON the boat find realigning the boat, rope, skier, somewhat tedious as well, so me "going" sking was kind of a given it was really gonna be a lot of going around in circles. Its hot. At least when my sister was skying there was wind as she soared behind the boat !

I spent a lot of time treading water, while hoping not to lose the skies before they came back around!

Whoever is not sking has to be the "watcher" so when someone went down you would yell to him so he would know to turn the boat and go after whoever was in the water!! Hold on I am looking up my old therapists number!

Coming back to the dock (my mother felt very similiar about boating outings!) All hands on deck for docking! Stand there everyone has their assigned rope, gotta be super alert to keep the boat from hitting the dock (a little) . I was always thought jeez, its no big deal there are rubber bumpers on the docks - nothing will happen In the event of an error the boat would go "bump". . Big deal.

A boat that bumped a rubber bumper would, unlike the Titanic, not sink. Plus there were no icebergs, so, in truth, we all were safe!

And even if it did, we were right by a dock. The boat could not even sink if it wanted to!!!

Then ,comes the trailer again. Back and forward with the car, the front wheels and trailer. Left ,right, in water a little, then a little more, then getting the damn boat lined up with the trailer. This is after being in the hot sun for 6 hours!!

The trailer goes the opposite of the front wheels of the car! In this domain, he was smart to never let me try this project! My sister got to tho!! She did it perfectly!

Boat on trailer, pull up. Now comes the part when everyone has to get back up on the boat and stow everything so it does not fly off while on the highway. Again everything has place. Ugh, all this putting everything away perfectly - as a kid -was not my notion of "fun".

Personally, I was not much concerned if the cushions were in the left comparment, or the right. IMO, either compartment would prevent them from flying off the boat. Just so you "know " the cushions go in the LEFT compartment!

I shall confess I had the same theory as far as my bedroom went. Much to my mothers dismay!

Then tie the boat to the stupid trailer. Check twice!

Drive home. Everyone back on the boat to unload all the sh^5!! It all has to be put in its perfect place at the house.Oh lord , it is coming to back to me, I need to start therapy again!!!!

Then its time to wash the boat - this process again has to be done with precision. Again as a kid, squirt some water on it - its a boat- there meant to be "wet"!!! IMO, boats never needed a bath after a swim - just made NO sense to me at all.

The only thing that needed a bath was ME! Which I could not have until after the boat had one!! I thought this was very unfair!! Salt water impacts human beings skin differently than a fiberglass boat!! That is how I viewed the sitution.

Then we had to flush the engine to keep salt water from whatever. Peoples car engines get dirty and they do fine! Why should boat engines get baths ?? For this fun activity you put this thing on the water intake of the engine, attach hose, start her up, let it run with regular water for a while.

Again, from a kids perspective - its a boat engine - they are made for salt and water mixed together - part of the design. This too had to be perfect cause you could damage the engine if, on land, you pushed the throttle to much, cause it only had limited amount of water going through it . More engine, less engine, more water , less water-- bla bla!

Shoot it would take three years for the engine to croak if you just put the boat up without bathing everything!! UGH.

Then the hose had to be put away on those things that hangon the wall. Perfectly. To this day I hate putting hoses away!!

While I am being off topic - you know you are getting old when you feel like you might need a physical therapist after cleaning your shower tiles!!!!! Hurtin!!


Back on track -- it shows him with his family :


[video=youtube;V1or6jtDQsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1or6jtDQsE[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

I only watched his "I don't need to take steroids (anymore) video". I saw him as off and suffering some degree of depression in that one video.

I'm not able to watch his other videos due to my computer fan problems. Let me ask those of you who have watched his videos if you would be concerned as a parent that he might have some mental problems? Those videos will be mentioned if this becomes a mental insanity trial because the videos have been mentioned in almost every news article.

Hi Curious!

That is exatly what I was thinking as I was watching some of the videos. Or his friends - in one video he is a passenger in a car behaving oddly. His videos are somewhat like my writing - he obvioulsy had some narrcisstic traits, while in some videos his hair looks like he crawled out of bed , thought I wanna make a video and do so.

There is def thought disturbences - going online in different accents is - well -pecluliar.

He could not stay on topic, his eyes were darty. Someone had to "think something?

moo

 

[slanda]

Oh, I'm pretty sure it will go to trial. It might not be a Death Penalty trial, but he will have to stand trial. I'm following one case where the insane suspect was sent to a state mental hospital for over a year and is now stabilized enough to be able to stand trial, and it's a DP trial. Also look at James Holmes who had to stand trial. AH isn't just going to be sent to a hospital and everyone forget about it.

Just wanted to respond to this... I live in CO, not far from Aurora, the differences between the Darknight shootings and what AH did could not be any more different from a psychological standpoint, IMO. Holmes is a psychopath : He was a gifted neurology student with his own set of mental instabilities, but none of them would constitute "insanity" per the legal definition, although he tried his hardest to convince everyone he was crazy. He's not, and never was, but he wanted to get away with murder by creating an "insanity" defense, and he was so narcissistic, he thought he could do it... There are videos of him trying to knock himself out by falling backwards off the bed while in his cell... JH is just ridiculous, (but not a paranoid schizophrenic) whom also deserves to die for what he did.

AH, I believe, is actually severely mentally compromised and is out of touch with reality, and will probably meet the definition of legal insanity. It's a very difficult burden for the defense, but, I do believe it could be met. And you're right, if he is ever deemed to be "competent/fit" to stand trial and help with his defense (which is one of the standards) then he will be tried. But, if he is truly a paranoid schizophrenic with psychotic tendencies then, he may never be able to "defend" himself during trial, and trials are stressful... A judge may never deem AH fit for trial, ever... Either way, the guy isn't going anywhere for the rest of his life besides a padded cell or a concrete cell.

My point is: I think AH is insane (and "insane" is not a clinical term; but a legal one). I do think he's severely mentally compromised and most likely cannot aid himself in his defense before or during trial, and if he's deemed to never be "fit" to stand trial, then he'll just sit in a mental institution.

Maybe the prosecution will attempt to get him to stand trial but it's not up to them, that decision is made by the judge who follows the recommendations of the psychiatrists who test him and review his mental capacity... Also, and unfortunately, it doesn't always matter what the victims families want, either. The law must be followed. (I'm a VA and the State always tries to do what the families want, but, sometimes, their hands are tied, too... The victims families may sue the AH's family for negligence in the deaths of their loved ones re: his diminishing mental state and question the parents' failure to act... But that's a civil matter which they probably will pursue and we could understand much more of their own awareness and personal responsibilities for their son during a civil trial.)

I would not be surprised if AH is deemed unfit to stand trial as may be mentally unable to defend himself in a reasonable way because of his severe mental illnesse(s). I also would not be surprised if he never stands trial. Paranoid schizophrenia severly diminishes one's ability to understand reality... And IMO, very different circumstances between AH and JH.

 

[Curious Me]

Thank You CARIIS for typing that up and sharing it. I enjoyed your writing style.

I got to watch the video you posted above without my computer fan acting up. Beautiful house and pool, and it looked like a wholesome day boating. I SAW A GUN IN THE VIDEO. Then, the dramatic carrying of the knife to Dad.

The ending said a lot to me as the camera zooms in on Dad's torso and the music plays with some song's lyrics saying, "I just want to be great before it's too late. Broken dreams on the floor like shattered glass..."

It's too bad it came what it did. I think AH would've taken to steady counseling and been helpful in his own therapy if he was urged into getting mental help.

 

[Curious Me]

I respect what you have to say, Slanda, but I don't agree with everything you said. That's fine though. I enjoy seeing things from other angles and I will think further on what you had to say. We'll just have to wait to see how this pans out.

 

[slanda]

This is a good article I just found that maybe explains better what I was trying to say.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...nsanity-defense-3a59876f-8461--390788571.html

 

[Curious Me]

We have only suspicions of his mental condition and limited info to actually diagnose him as a paranoid schizophrenic. I think he definitely took steroids in the past which could point to roid rage and LE suspected flakka or some synthetic, so it's still too early to know what contributed to his sudden rage and the murders. I think it matters what caused a psychotic break. Would you see it the same if he took meth until he lost control of his mind?

I'm just not ready to give him a mental insanity pass at this point. I do think he can be rehabilitated to stand trial eventually. Sure, he was saying some outlandish things to his mother for one week, and yet he may have often said strange things. I also think it'd be useful to hear what his fraternity brothers, his teachers, and coaches have to say concerning his recent behavior.

:cow: This is all my own opinion.

 

[Jax49]

Oh, I'm pretty sure it will go to trial. It might not be a Death Penalty trial, but he will have to stand trial. I'm following one case where the insane suspect was sent to a state mental hospital for over a year and is now stabilized enough to be able to stand trial, and it's a DP trial. Also look at James Holmes who had to stand trial. AH isn't just going to be sent to a hospital and everyone forget about it.

IMHO, he will face the death penalty. An insanity defense in Florida is an affirmative defense which makes it very difficult to prove.

AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.—All persons are presumed to be sane. It is an affirmative defense to a criminal prosecution that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant was insane. Insanity is established when:(a) The defendant had a mental infirmity, disease, or defect; and
(b) Because of this condition, the defendant:1. Did not know what he or she was doing or its consequences; or

2. Although the defendant knew what he or she was doing and its consequences, the defendant did not know that what he or she was doing was wrong.

 

[Curious Me]

This is a good article I just found that maybe explains better what I was trying to say.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...nsanity-defense-3a59876f-8461--390788571.html

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...nsanity-defense-3a59876f-8461--390788571.html

I saw that earlier, but you should note that some of what is being spouted is from his defense attorney-- "Harrouff's lawyer, Robert Watson, declined to speculate whether his client has a mental illness, but he acknowledged the possibility."

That's where this is going, I do understand that. With a highly paid defense attorney, it's very possible it could go that direction.

As mentioned in the article "being acquitted by reason of insanity is a legal concept, not a medical diagnosis". So, we'll see.

Hope I made sense...........tired........getting sleepy...................fftobed:

 

[CARIIS]

We have only suspicions of his mental condition and limited info to actually diagnose him as a paranoid schizophrenic. I think he definitely took steroids in the past which could point to roid rage and LE suspected flakka or some synthetic, so it's still too early to know what contributed to his sudden rage and the murders. I think it matters what caused a psychotic break. Would you see it the same if he took meth until he lost control of his mind?

I'm just not ready to give him a mental insanity pass at this point. I do think he can be rehabilitated to stand trial eventually. Sure, he was saying some outlandish things to his mother for one week, and yet he may have often said strange things. I also think it'd be useful to hear what his fraternity brothers, his teachers, and coaches have to say concerning his recent behavior.

:cow: This is all my own opinion.

His videos are peculiar that is for sure. Almost an immaturity at times. Scary at others. I dont know typical patterns for you tube and that age group but he added a ton of channels the last couple of weeks.

His choisces were all over the place.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid Bit ramblings on my part!!

Please forgive me - I just heard about this and am trying to get a sense of him. Some of what follows I am sure you may have posted. But I dont want to have to go back for links if I find something interesting, so sorry if this is here already !!

I’d rather cut using a knife and slit my own throat. I’m like Bugs Bunny, I stick my teeth in because it’s funny. I’m like a Looney Tune, I take a lot of shrooms.”



Here his is YouTube introduction

352 subscribers • 338,250 views
Joined Mar 8, 2016


Description
This that f0ck around music y'all been hearing about. I've got a psycho side and a normal side. I've lost my mind help me find it

Was not that active on Twitter

https://twitter.com/AustinHarrouff/with_replies

I def think there were issues, but mental illiness usually does not result in one being tazer resistant- so I would assume that particular day some substance had began to take hold in the retaurant.

54 videos, 41 were posted in the last month, 15 in the last three weeks. That has a racing mind "feel" to it -- like something was "starting" for him

In one video he was licking his steering wheel. The sterring wheel was awesome- high end vehicle.

He wrestled. In one video he alludes (and acts) to being drunk - then pulls back and says it is water.

Temendous difference in affect between the videos - some days rapid and manicky, other days looks depressed, some days appears as if the is tangential and cognitivily all over the place - like he lost his reason for the video.

in the boat video the home was clean and orderly - except the garage - a pigsty. I thought i bet the mom is neat and dad and son not. It struck me like mom gave the guys the garage and told them the interior is hers and "you boys" better not trash it.

They live on the intercoastal (I can tell by the videos) --typically expensive property- but the house itself was less extravgant than others in the area. When they were motoroing out of the intercoastal there were some very expensive homefronts. The boat at the dock is not cheap. Def seemed like there was disposable income family wise. A weight room in the house.

Could not tell the make model of the cars in the driveway. IMO this kind of "data" is important solely to get a background. Casue I was born down there (My sister and her husband lived on the intercoastal waterway so I am fmailiar with the "dynamics"..Where this stuff takes me is it would seem the parents woud have been able to , years ago, know that there child was odd. Who knows we may find a psyc history down the road.

IMO, tho , I would think there is (at least on moms part) some sense that her son is not well. Typically a parent would not call LE for a child being upset at a dinner- kinda makes me think mom has had some past exposure to LE/Mental issues.

It also , just imo, sounds like he injested something right before dinner and it started while in the restaurant. Get the sense that mom and dad may have been conflicted about their son needing help when younger. I got this notion from watching the boating video, dad did not stike me as sophisticated. Just pure speculation, but got the vibe like dads take would be my boy dont need to see any of those mental people - my boy aint mentalily ill - just a bit off. You know what I mean .

Wonder if any siblings? Domestic violence? Did he ever work (son)? DUI//criminal history/ rehab in past? Get in trouble when younger in school - academically how did he perform in school in younger years - suspended ever? Fighting history? Dating history?

FOrget what he did - he was biazaire just on YOu Tube. Am gonna try to find out how many views his video channel had BEFORE he starting dining on other human beings - his stuff IMO certainly was not alluring or interesting.

There is total obsession with physical looks - takes me to a very insecure person who might have been problems dating.

Would be interesting to know if his living arragnement was a suite dorm where there is a common living room. They should def be IMO aware of his peculair behaviors.

ANyone know what dad did for income/mom

Just babbling ..............................anyone have answers to some of the questions??

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...in-harrouffs-bizarre-online-persona/88918500/

http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/austi...-michelle-karen-mishcon-murder-facebook-page/

 

[jjenny]

IMHO, he will face the death penalty. An insanity defense in Florida is an affirmative defense which makes it very difficult to prove.

And he reportedly gave police a fake name-suggests he knew what he was doing was wrong (if perp knows right from wrong, by definition perp is not legally insane).

 

[jjenny]

Seems like his parents were too busy with their own lives and not paying attention to his mental or physical health. Either that or he wasn't home much when his family was there, so possibly his problems were overlooked.

It's very hard to commit someone even when parents know their offspring is mentally ill. Him saying he was a superhero wouldn't get him committed, he has to be a known danger to himself or others. As he wasn't saying he was going to kill people and chew their face off, I don't think parents could have gotten him committed.

 

[x_files]

It's very hard to commit someone even when parents know their offspring is mentally ill. Him saying he was a superhero wouldn't get him committed, he has to be a known danger to himself or others. As he wasn't saying he was going to kill people and chew their face off, I don't think parents could have gotten him committed.

Florida has a Baker Act, if they tried they could have sent him for a 48 eval. Doesn't seem they even tried though. But, that will all come out in trial soon enough.