Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices

I have been thinking that the cord used for the ligature shoud have skin cells from the perp caught in the weave, maybe the echonolgy to retrive the DNA was not available at the time but I was listening to Tricia's True Crime radio from the 16th April and Dawna Kaufmann mentionned that the lab Cybergenetics offered to re-test the evidence in the JBR case using state of the art technology but as yet the BPD have not submitted the evidence to them.
 
I have been thinking that the cord used for the ligature shoud have skin cells from the perp caught in the weave, maybe the echonolgy to retrive the DNA was not available at the time but I was listening to Tricia's True Crime radio from the 16th April and Dawna Kaufmann mentionned that the lab Cybergenetics offered to re-test the evidence in the JBR case using state of the art technology but as yet the BPD have not submitted the evidence to them.

According to Kolar, unsourced, and non-matching male DNA was discovered on the wrist ligature and on the garrote.
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AK
 
According to Kolar, unsourced, and non-matching male DNA was discovered on the wrist ligature and on the garrote.
...

AK

Does that DNA match what was in the panties?


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I have been thinking that the cord used for the ligature shoud have skin cells from the perp caught in the weave, maybe the echonolgy to retrive the DNA was not available at the time but I was listening to Tricia's True Crime radio from the 16th April and Dawna Kaufmann mentionned that the lab Cybergenetics offered to re-test the evidence in the JBR case using state of the art technology but as yet the BPD have not submitted the evidence to them.

I think if you look at the other evidence in this case it's a logical assumption that the Ramsey's likely wore gloves. The ransom note for example was obviously picked up and handled by one or both of them, yet there are no prints on it. The Officers who had handled it have their prints on it, why not the Ramsey's? This can't be put down to IDI because they handled the note as victims. IMO the note was placed on the floor with gloves on and never touched again. Possibly the practice note was started without gloves and discarded for that reason.


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Does that DNA match what was in the panties?


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If we are to believe Kolar the DNA on the wrist ligature and the DNA on the garrote and the DNA on the panties/leggings all came from separate individuals.
...

AK
 
I think if you look at the other evidence in this case it's a logical assumption that the Ramsey's likely wore gloves. The ransom note for example was obviously picked up and handled by one or both of them, yet there are no prints on it. The Officers who had handled it have their prints on it, why not the Ramsey's? This can't be put down to IDI because they handled the note as victims. IMO the note was placed on the floor with gloves on and never touched again. Possibly the practice note was started without gloves and discarded for that reason.


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There weren’t prints on a lot of things. This is not necessarily indicative of items only being handled by someone wearing gloves. For example, two fingerprints were found on the pineapple bowl – one Mrs Ramsey’s and one Burke’s. Did they wear four fingered gloves while handling the bowl? Probably not. Did they handle the bowl with only one finger each, balancing it between them as they moved it from point A to point B? Probably not.
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An important fact to consider:
“When a report reads "no prints,"… … means no prints of evidentiary value were preserved. It does not mean that the item was wiped down, or that no one had ever touched or handled it... …The term "no prints" does not mean that there were no marks or smears - it means that if any markings were present, they lacked sufficient detail to be of evidentiary value.” ("Fingerprints: What They Can & Cannot Do!," The Print, Volume 10, number 7, June 1994, pp. 1-3.)
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AK
 
Extra links inserted by me. Bumping entire excellent sequence for newbies.

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A quick refresher for anyone who might have missed how I got to the point I am at:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ngulation-Devices/page9&p=5721057#post5721057
1) The garrote that's not.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ngulation-Devices/page9&p=5721559#post5721559
2) The wrist knot

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ngulation-Devices/page8&p=5742888#post5742888
3) The knot around JonBenet's neck

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ngulation-Devices/page7&p=5749401#post5749401
4) The knot tied to the stick

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ngulation-Devices/page6&p=5771888#post5771888
5) Tying it all together

As you read what I am about to write, I ask you to put aside your beliefs about what happened. Forget about the things that happened afterward that make you think that “RDI”, or “IDI”. Forget about the things that you want to believe because you just can’t image that someone in a certain situation would do this, or not do that. Forget about what someone might or might not have said in an interview three of five years after the fact. And forget about any “expert’s” opinion, or what was printed in a newspaper article or tabloid journal (surely we know not to put much faith in any of that). Forget it all for now and look only at the evidence of what caused JonBenet’s death.

If you have followed my numbered posts so far, you know that I believe that the ligature evidence and the markings on her neck show that JonBenet was strangled by hanging -- not the staged “garrote”. There is just way too much that points away from the paintbrush being actually used in the way it is tied to the cord to think that it is not part of the staging that was done to hide what actually happened.

So even if you disagree with me on this, consider for a moment that when she died, if the paintbrush was not there, how could she have been hung? I would point out again the frayed ends of the cord that I talked about before. If the knot tied to the paintbrush was not there, what we have left is three somewhat similar knots (similar in their lack of complexity) tied somewhat randomly with no particular intent other than to hold them in place. Consider that before she was killed, the cord was one continuous piece in the way that it was used, and that it was eventually cut while under strain causing the fraying.

I think that this was the case, and that the scenario went something like this:

The right wrist was tied first, and then the left wrist. Neither of these two knots was tied tightly. They were put there simply to restrain, or at least add a feeling of restraint -- maybe even in a “playful” way. Then the longer end of the cord is put over one of the many pipes that run all over the basement and then tied around her neck with a slipknot so it can be tightened just enough to make JonBenet feel like she has to stay right there. It would not have been secured tightly around her neck; it would have some slack in it and lie loosely around her neck and rest at the base of her neck. There is no intent to kill or harm her in any way with the cord. This is all done simply to make her feel she can’t go running out of the room. This was all done to keep her there while the reason for doing it was carried out. That reason was the “molestation”.

As so many “experts” have pointed out, there was no sexual gratification in a traditional sense. There was no semen found anywhere on or in her body, there was none found in the room, there was no penile or large object insertion. The only thing that occurred of a sexual nature was insertion of something “consistent with digital insertion” -- something that was inserted causing the acute injuries noted in the autopsy report. Whether or not this had occurred in the past is still being debated and will probably never be resolved with any certainty, but the acute injuries cannot be denied. It’s possible (and I give credence to it) that similar things had happened in the past. Perhaps this was an escalation of what had happened prior to that night. For now though, let’s go on and leave that debate for another time. The assault (and that is what it was) that happened associated with her death is fact that is documented in the AR. It was, I believe, the reason she was brought to the basement as far away from the others in the house as possible.

By the lack of damage to her neck internally (“Examination of the thyroid cartilage, cricoid cartilage and hyoid bone disclose no evidence of fracture or hemorrhage.”), I would posit that the hanging did not occur from a high distance. Was she standing on something or simply standing in place? Either could be the case, but because of the lack of damage to her neck, I would think she was simply standing on the floor.

Once this was done, the molestation began. Some may reason that JonBenet had to have been a willing, docile, or at the least -- a passive participant in this, at least at the start. It could be argued that her “sexuallization” by Patsy may have contributed to that. But certainly at her age, no one could expect her to know just how vulnerable she was at that point or how much danger she was in because of the circumstances that had been set up. I won’t try to argue any of those points here, because I’m trying to look only at what the evidence tells us happened to cause her death.

So JonBenet is restrained with the cord tied around her wrists, and the continuous piece of cord goes from her left wrist over something above her head, and then is tied around her neck. The end of the artist’s paintbrush (unbroken) is inserted enough to cause injury and obviously _____ pain (ladies can add what ever adjective they feel appropriate in the space before the word “pain” -- sharp, extreme, terrible, intense, severe, tremendous). She screams. The scream may have been from the pain; it could have been from her looking down and seeing the blood. According to one account, Melody Stanton was awakened by “one loud, incredible scream”. She related that it was “obviously from a child” and that it lasted 3 to 5 seconds and then abruptly stopped. After the scream began -- panic. An object is picked up and she is struck over the head (“and then abruptly stopped”). Exactly what the object was is debatable. Even the investigators who are privy to all of the evidence disagree. Was it a bat, a flashlight, or maybe even a fireplace log tool? I think it was a putter golf club turned to where the tip of the back end of it hit her head with the full weight and force concentrated in that one small area.

Regardless of what the object was, the blow to her head caused her to lose consciousness. Her head dropped and her body fell forward. The weight of her upper torso pulling on the cord raised her left arm and tightened the left wrist knot on itself. At the same time, the slipknot around her neck tightened and strangled the life out of her.

Everyone likes to ask and debate, which came first -- the head blow or the strangulation? Experts can’t agree. What they do agree on is that either one of the injuries alone could have caused her death. Technically, in this scenario, the head blow came first. But there would only be a second or so between the two injuries, so they effectively occurred simultaneously. This is the reason the autopsy findings are so inconclusive on the exact cause of death -- both injuries were killing her at the same time.

“CLINICOPATHLOGIC CORRELATION: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma.”

This is how the evidence says JonBenet died. There was no murder. There was no violent rape. There was no jealousy or rage involved in the head blow, only fear of being caught and a desire to stop the scream. There was never any kidnapping. There was no crime committed in her death -- just a terrible, tragic accident. Everything else is staging and cover-up. But that is where the crime was committed. The cover-up was a crime, but it will never be proven.

So now to explain the staging that is associated with the evidence that we know and that we have discussed here.

It should be obvious by now that I think that the sexual aspect of this was of a juvenile nature. It was a curiosity of sex that was being acted out on a person of convenience. It, and the cord tied around her neck, created a dangerous situation that was set up by someone who didn’t have the maturity to imagine the possible consequences of the things that were done. So I believe that when faced with a situation that might have required an immediate response, he didn’t know what to do. Did John and Patsy hear the scream and go running through the house to find where it came from and discover what happened, or did Burke wait until he felt he had to go wake them and tell them what had happened because they didn’t hear her scream? (We’ll never know the answer to that, but consider Patsy’s later statement: “Why didn’t I hear my baby?”) But either way, when they did find JonBenet dead and hanging from the ceiling, John’s first reaction, as would any father’s reaction be, would be to cut the cord and get her down. Because of the weight of JonBenet on the cord, this would cause the cord to fray as it was cut. It would be obvious at this point that she was dead. Medical attention would be of no value. Even Patsy would have known that Jesus was not going to “raise her baby from the dead as He did Lazurus”.

So they were faced with the question of what to do. If they called the police, they would face everyone in the community knowing what had happened. I don’t imagine they knew that Burke was one-month shy of being able to be charged with any crime, so for all they knew, he might be charged with negligent homicide or wrongful death.

Now it’s time to do something. I believe they decided at this point to stage the entire thing to look like someone else was responsible. They also tried to completely remove any evidence of the sexual aspect, cleaning the blood from her body and changing any clothes that may have had any blood on them. The end of the paintbrush with blood and vaginal fluids was broken off so it would be small enough that it could be hidden, discarded, burned, or carried out in a pocket or anything else. Then the brush part was broken off to leave a wooden stick to tie the cord to, making it look like (in their minds anyway) a professional killing device. In the process of breaking it, small pieces of wood break off in shards and go unnoticed until found much later by BPD. The cord is tied to the middle piece so close to JonBenet’s hair that it gets caught in the knot.
[Sidenote: Ever wonder when she was found if the stick was tangled in her hair, if the hair had been pulled out by the root, or if it had been cut with scissors? Have you ever heard it said?]


Granted, there is a lot in the overall picture of what was found afterward that is still left unanswered. Did all of the staging and cover-up happen in the basement, or was she carried upstairs at some point between her death and her being laid out in the wine cellar? Was her body moved a second time before being “discovered” by John when he loosened and removed the knot on her left wrist? Was the broken brush end of Patsy’s paintbrush in the paint tote tested for fingerprints, and if it had none -- why not? Why was the flashlight and even the batteries in it wiped clean of fingerprints? How did the pineapple play into all this?

I’m sure you have your own questions, and we can debate them from now on, but the answers won’t change the evidence of how JonBenet. And if you consider the scenario I just laid out, doesn’t everything else in the behavior of all the people associated with this make sense? Does it not explain why Burke’s voice can be heard on the 911 call? Does it make sense now why Burke would stay in his room all morning long not coming down to ask what all the commotion was when they were supposed to be leaving for Michigan that morning? And when he was led through the house to leave for someone else’s home, why didn’t he even ask, “What are the police and all these people doing here? Did something happen?” Does it not explain some of the bizarre things that John and Patsy did and said after their child was killed, and why they would hire attorneys almost immediately to help them avoid being questioned by police? And how about John Andrew’s answer to what should be done to the person who killed his sister? -- “He should be forgiven

If you at least consider this, is there anything that doesn’t make sense?
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Scroll and Roll.
*Sensitive Content Warning*

I think this would work. I know you are referring to the culprit being BR but I'm not. Her little hands were dirty but didn't her fingernails have her own DNA and tiny marks on her neck where she tried to pry the rope away from choking her?

So we have JB hanging in death due to asphyxiation from the bang on the head forcing JB to collapse forward. JB has to be cut down, causing the rope ends to fray, from the accidental hanging that started when JB screamed b/c that is why she was hit ferociously upon the head. In your synopsis, the two causes of death occur simultaneously. However, JK has told us that she could have lived up to an hour after the fatal head blow before being fatally strangled.

If the first ligature left the white blanching around the front of her neck, couldn't a fresh cord be used for the final assault? Therefore, there was actually a double strangulation with the first one, as you state, by accident, and the second one as staging for the Police to find.

The furrow in JBs neck is mighty deep for it to be a cover up and not the Real McCoy.

Lord, forgive me, for these thoughts are just awful. Poor JB.
 
Part - 5 [:laugh:Tying :dance: It All Together]

Okay, so let’s look now at what we’ve got so far in a continuance of my previous Part-numbered posts.

Four knots: each one different, but with similarities in the lack of complexity of three, and a strikingly different fourth knot tied onto a stick broken on both ends, but which we know is the middle section of a twice broken paintbrush. The difference between the three as opposed to the fourth indicates to me that it was probably tied by someone other than the person who tied the others. Let’s consider for now that it is therefore part of the staging that was done after the fact.

Remember: What we are doing here is looking only at evidence we are sure of that we have to try and determine what happened to cause JonBenet’s death. Forget for the time being about ransom notes, fiber evidence, people’s behavior, 911 calls, and everything else that happened afterward and may be staging or simply reactions to what happened. Look only at what we know.

So, while we are looking at what we know, we have to bring in another piece of evidence -- the body that was on one end of the cord. If you look at the picture of the right side of JonBenet’s face, you see the ligature still attached with her hair and a gold chain caught under it. You’ll also see on her neck below this a whitish, “blanched” area with reddened areas above and below it, as well as a darkened red area about in the center of her neck which, because of the lack of clarity in the picture, we can’t tell with certainty if it is an abraded area or a localized grouping of petichiae.

Nevertheless, what is evident is that this blanched area is where the strangulation occurred that probably actually caused her death. (I know what you’re thinking: “What about the head wound?” -- We’ll get there. Be patient.) This is the area that rashomon pointed out in an earlier post as possibly being from the infamous “double wrap” (which I believe is a red herring, and I’ll explain later so as not to get too far sidetracked for now).

To explain the physiology of blanching in my unprofessional, nonmedical way, from what I have learned, the blanching occurs when pressure is applied forcing the blood out of the surface of the skin. After death, because of a lack of blood circulation, the surface blood does not return, leaving this area that is whiter than the rest of the skin surface. This is what a coroner or an experienced detective would look for as an apparent cause of death if there was no ligature or other means of strangulation left behind. And by “experience detective”, I mean one whose first reaction when a dead body is produced is not to immediately ask everyone present to hold hands in a circle around the deceased and say the Lord’s prayer and then sing the first two stanzas of "Kumbaya". (Okay, I threw in that last part -- I don’t want to add to all the misinformation that’s already out there or start a new rumor.)

So, I will assert here that I believe this blanched area is where the cord actually strangled her causing her death. If you look at the angle at which it rises from the front of her neck toward the back, you see it is going upward. This is what we talked about in earlier posts about the “V” pattern that would be formed pointing in the direction the ligature was pulled. This pattern would indicate “how” the person was strangled and has been written about extensively by Brent Turvey. If you have followed me up to this point, and with the knowledge we have from our other readings, by now you should see that (get ready… I’m gonna say it…) JonBenet was hanged.

I know this goes against everything a lot of people have speculated, theorized, postulated, and professed, but believe me on this -- it is what happened. This is what the known evidence tells us. Now we have to figure out how it happened, and why it happened. Now we have to go beyond the things we know, and figure a scenario that will take into account all that we do know with reasonable certainty and fit with everything else we know. This is where we step away a bit from the clear evidence and get into theory.

I’ll leave this at that for now for you to think about before I post my theory later. Let’s see if anyone else comes up with the same thing I think happened before I post it. Remember that a lot of what we think we know may be staging or simply red herrings. Look at what the evidence tells us, and then the other things that are so perplexing about this will all make sense if we are right.
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This is interesting, but weren't urine stains found outside the wine cellar where it's believed she died? Or do you think she was hung outside the wine cellar and moved afterwards?

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk
 
sorry for snip otg

But there would only be a second or so between the two injuries, so they effectively occurred simultaneously. This is the reason the autopsy findings are so inconclusive on the exact cause of death -- both injuries were killing her at the same time.


which re/ inforces the idea that neither is cover/up but both are parts of the crime IMO
 
I think this would work. I know you are referring to the culprit being BR but I'm not. Her little hands were dirty but didn't her fingernails have her own DNA and tiny marks on her neck where she tried to pry the rope away from choking her?
The DNA under her fingernails was too degraded to eliminate her as the donor. I have never seen a photo where fingernail gouges can be seen on JonBenet's neck. I know some have speculated about this, but until I see something on JonBenet's neck showing what I've seen in other autopsy photos that really were fingernail gouges, I'm not convinced. Additionally, the simple fact that the DNA under her fingernails was too degraded for better testing contradicts the likelihood of her having done so.

If you care to read more, I've been through this before:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...!-*READ-FIRST-POST*-2&p=11110524#post11110524


So we have JB hanging in death due to asphyxiation from the bang on the head forcing JB to collapse forward. JB has to be cut down, causing the rope ends to fray, from the accidental hanging that started when JB screamed b/c that is why she was hit ferociously upon the head. In your synopsis, the two causes of death occur simultaneously. However, JK has told us that she could have lived up to an hour after the fatal head blow before being fatally strangled.
Yeah, I know what Kolar said about that, but I have reasons to doubt that that length of time is correct.


If the first ligature left the white blanching around the front of her neck, couldn't a fresh cord be used for the final assault? Therefore, there was actually a double strangulation with the first one, as you state, by accident, and the second one as staging for the Police to find.
The two marks on her neck is not uncommon in hangings (even "partial"). It's actually one of the reasons I first suspected that that is what happened.

From Pathology of Neck Injury, by Peter Vanezis:
"It is not unusual in homicidal ligature strangulation to find that there is more than one ligature mark, each of varying intensity and crossing each other, in parallel or at an angle to each other. Together with such an appearance, one quite commonly sees abrasions caused by movement of a ligature across the neck."
(Does this not describe exactly what is seen on JonBenet’s neck? This accounts for the “areas of petechial hemorrhage and abrasion encompassing an area measuring approximately 3x2 inches” mentioned in the AR which lies between the two ligature marks.)

Here's another quote from this online source:
There is a tendency for the ligature to move upwards, this being limited by the jaws. The upward movement may produce double impression of ligature. The lower mark is usually very superficial and is connected by fine abrasions, caused by the slipping ligature, to the mark made by ligature in its final position.


The furrow in JBs neck is mighty deep for it to be a cover up and not the Real McCoy.
The depth and appearance of the furrow is a result of the length of time it was left around her neck. The lower white line (below her laryngeal prominence) didn't have the cord in place long enough to develop a furrow.
 
This is interesting, but weren't urine stains found outside the wine cellar where it's believed she died?
Yes, I believe that the urine has been confirmed.


Or do you think she was hung outside the wine cellar and moved afterwards?
I think it all happened right there just outside the WC. I think her body was moved to the inside the WC by John.
 
Intent

"If it can be demonstrated that the ligature was drawn relatively tight in a short period of time, this might tend to be more directly supportive of [intentional homicide:.


"A good question to ask about the ligature itself is whether it is something that could be accomplished with little thought, or is it the type of ligature that would take practice to do well. Over time, this assailant will not change certain features of his assault on his victims. Complex ligature, which is practiced and learned, is one of the areas to look for this repetition."

" .... DiMaio et al[4] adds:

"The appearance of a ligature mark on the neck is subject to considerable variation, depending upon the nature of the ligature, the amount of resistance offered by the victim, and the amount of force used by the assailant. The ligature mark may be faint, barely visible, or absent in young children .... If a thin ligature is used, there will be a very prominent deep mark encircling the neck. Initially, it has a yell parchment-like appearance that turns dark brown."

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ligature.html

Just trying to figure out why JB would be standing on her feet with a noose around her neck in the basement that she hated on Christmas Night. Then, once she is whacked hard on her head crushing in her skull, she collapsed on the noose. Hence, the killer took the garrote and pulled it with some force for some time until she no longer lived. Intentional homicide. What made JB scream? The paintbrush tickle? The force that made her bleed?

Can the scream heard by the female neighbor, who later retracted her own statement, be factual for TOD purposes? For some reason, I feel JB was killed earlier in the evening than we've been led to believe. All of that story about dropping off gifts after the party and what knot is a bunch of phooey trash. Those friends found out the next day not be caught telling a stray dog or else....

The Stines were not called for JBs emergency kidnapping that morning, though were they attended the Rs party on the 23rd when something went terribly wrong. Ms Stine answered the PoPo who knocked on their door for the 911 wellness check. The mysterious 911 call was made. Santa came and promised JB he'd come visit again after Christmas or else some other person promised her that Santa would. JB said she didn't feel pretty.

Were both JAR and PaPaw Paugh in attendance at the Rs party on the 23rd? Yes or no? TIA PaPaw Paugh caught a stand by flight into AZ where Nedra was on Christmas Eve, iirc.

Maybe JB was about to reveal a big secret and had to be silenced. Something bad happened on the 25th to cause JB to end up dead from it. It was planned but went too far, said Patsy. It is common for the victim to be hit on the head in order to cooperate with sex abuse. JB was hit too hard. That was not enough. Part of the sex abuse was the garrote. Intentional homicide to cover for the real reason why she was hit on the head. JR and PR looked on in horror at what just happened to their baby girl. Child abuse that led to her death just like its stated in the True Bills.
 
About the cord, hence, this fiber report.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/ramsey.htm

(A) Prosecutors in Boulder, Colo., presented to the grand jury shocking evidence that they feel shows the rope used to strangle JonBenét was purchased by her mom Patsy. A sales slip indicates that Patsy bought a thin nylon rope at Boulder's McGuckin hardware store. Patsy paid for this rope with an American Express card. The sales slip doesn't name the items, but it shows a $2.29 purchase rung up in the section of the store that sold nylon ropes. The price of a nylon rope at the time -- $2.29. Realizing they were on to something explosive, authorities bought up all the 100-foot packs of quarter inch Stansport nylon utility rope sold at McGuckin's. They compared the McGuckin ropes with the one used on JonBenét and it matched. Tests run by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation convinced the police they had the right rope. This was vital evidence since investigators never found the remainder of the murder rope in the Ramsey home.

From another thread:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682473/Fiber Evidence

The brown fibers
Brown Cotton Fibers

  • "Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) (Carnes 2003:20).
  • Rocky Mountain News characterized these fibers as "light brown" and further reports that [Detective Lou] "Smit wonders if the killer wore gloves."
[Respectfully snipped the portion that offered a suggestion about the American Girl Doll having brown fibers.]

The fact remains that these brown fibers, among others, from her body, stuck to the duct tape and in the ligature were never conclusively sourced unless we discover it in the upcoming dox. The killer touched or possessed something belonging to these three items at some point.

RSBM

The suitcase and its contents are a huge clue IMO. It is no coincidence that fibers from the crime scene were found on items within the suitcase because someone made sure those fibers were on those items. Now, I think the person who did this got a little too clever for his own good because by doing this he pointed back to himself. I look at the three people in the family (BR, PR, and JR) and question which of these three people would have the mindset to do something like this, and every single time one person becomes obvious: JR. The other two did not do this particular piece of staging. We don't know when JR did this staging but we know that JR must know there is a need to stage and he is thinking of everything he can to throw LE off of the scent by planting clues like this. This relates to the head blow and garroting because if JR staged the suitcase, then what else did he stage, and for whom he is going to this extraordinary effort to stage? The suitcase staging indicates to me someone pulling out all the stops to confuse LE in any way they can, and if JR staged the suitcase then this directly relates to the garrote. The garrote was someone pulling out all the stops to confuse LE. There is a connection here, if you will allow yourself to see it, of someone who is desperate to plant as many false clues as possible so LE will not find the real killer. Now, I ask myself this question: Would JR go to this extraordinary level of staging to protect his son?
Would JR go to this extraordinary level of staging to protect his wife? OR would JR go to this extraordinary level of staging to protect himself?


Fibers from the contents held within the blue suitcase were found all over JonBenet's CS. This is important to remember/know.


Fibers from Sham & Duvet
Where Found. A sham and duvet were found in the suitcase beneath the train room window.

Fibers on JBR
"A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682473/Fiber Evidence

That's a fair amount of duvet fibers at five different places at the CS from the comforter/duvet and sham that was found stuffed inside the JARs blue suitcase.

JonBenet must have been on that duvet/comforter the night of her death. Why? Why was she on that comforter? Whose was it? Did it really belong to JAR? Surely he's thankful to possess an airtight alibi or he'd been arrested, one would think.

ST does not have PR using the duvet in the crime.
 
About the cord, hence, this fiber report.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/ramsey.htm

(A) Prosecutors in Boulder, Colo., presented to the grand jury shocking evidence that they feel shows the rope used to strangle JonBenét was purchased by her mom Patsy. A sales slip indicates that Patsy bought a thin nylon rope at Boulder's McGuckin hardware store. Patsy paid for this rope with an American Express card. The sales slip doesn't name the items, but it shows a $2.29 purchase rung up in the section of the store that sold nylon ropes. The price of a nylon rope at the time -- $2.29. Realizing they were on to something explosive, authorities bought up all the 100-foot packs of quarter inch Stansport nylon utility rope sold at McGuckin's. They compared the McGuckin ropes with the one used on JonBenét and it matched. Tests run by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation convinced the police they had the right rope. This was vital evidence since investigators never found the remainder of the murder rope in the Ramsey home.

From another thread:

[Respectfully snipped the portion that offered a suggestion about the American Girl Doll having brown fibers.]

The fact remains that these brown fibers, among others, from her body, stuck to the duct tape and in the ligature were never conclusively sourced unless we discover it in the upcoming dox. The killer touched or possessed something belonging to these three items at some point.




Fibers from the contents held within the blue suitcase were found all over JonBenet's CS. This is important to remember/know.


Fibers from Sham & Duvet
Where Found. A sham and duvet were found in the suitcase beneath the train room window.

Fibers on JBR
"A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag." (SMF P 147; PSMF P 147.)

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682473/Fiber Evidence

That's a fair amount of duvet fibers at five different places at the CS from the comforter/duvet and sham that was found stuffed inside the JARs blue suitcase.

JonBenet must have been on that duvet/comforter the night of her death. Why? Why was she on that comforter? Whose was it? Did it really belong to JAR? Surely he's thankful to possess an airtight alibi or he'd been arrested, one would think.

ST does not have PR using the duvet in the crime.


DeDee,
Excellent post. The fibers found at the crime-scene which were also found on items in the suitcase, ties the suitcase to JonBenet's homicide, and kinda explains why JR offered such a lame explanation for the suitcase being in the basement, i.e. he was role-playing a maid with Patsy!

Looks like the comforter was used after JonBenet lay dying down in the basement and before she was asphyxiated, its even possible she was assaulted in JAR's bedroom, then moved down to the basement, with a blanket from her own room used to fake the staging.

In simplest terms the comforter could have been used to keep JonBenet warm as she lay dying, and before any decision was taken to kill her?

.
 
DeDee,
Excellent post. The fibers found at the crime-scene which were also found on items in the suitcase, ties the suitcase to JonBenet's homicide, and kinda explains why JR offered such a lame explanation for the suitcase being in the basement, i.e. he was role-playing a maid with Patsy!

Looks like the comforter was used after JonBenet lay dying down in the basement and before she was asphyxiated, its even possible she was assaulted in JAR's bedroom, then moved down to the basement, with a blanket from her own room used to fake the staging.

In simplest terms the comforter could have been used to keep JonBenet warm as she lay dying, and before any decision was taken to kill her?

.

I don't think John intended for the suitcase to be part of the intruder 'evidence'. Fleet is the one who moved the suitcase under the window, correct? Once Lou Smit got going, John just went along with whatever theory he thought would clear the family.
 
I don't think John intended for the suitcase to be part of the intruder 'evidence'. Fleet is the one who moved the suitcase under the window, correct? Once Lou Smit got going, John just went along with whatever theory he thought would clear the family.

AndHence,
Whut! Just how do you know this? The existence of the suitcase in the basement is via JR's proxy tale about him doing housework, i.e where is the maid, that it was moved is a moot point, what its prior purpose may have been is more relevant.


.
 
I don't think John intended for the suitcase to be part of the intruder 'evidence'. Fleet is the one who moved the suitcase under the window, correct? Once Lou Smit got going, John just went along with whatever theory he thought would clear the family.

I've learned not to underestimate the power FW, Jr. wields. Folks need to stop. Stop and take a look around. Listen. Listen to the evidence.

Why would FW move the suitcase, touch the glass shards, pick up and examine the duct tape? Why would his DNA be questioned if found to be in the basement? He went to the wine cellar on the 23rd. But couldn't locate the light switch plate on the 26th? A Faction Leader. FW helps locate the child's dead body. Escorts her 9yo brother straight to his own home before 8am where the Rs had been less than twelve hours earlier. Sorry. That makes no sense to me.

Fernie. JF reads the RN upside down, while standing from outside a side door, where the closest the RN could possibly be, where it was moved from the staircase steps and placed onto the kitchen tile floor, would be inside that particular area, on the floor, where JR was down on his knees reading it while in his underwear. Give me a break. Fernie was already there. Parked in the alley.

JR casually hands the RN to the first arriving officer as if it were a napkin to go with his cup of hot Christmas tea. Where are JRs fingerprints on the RN and why has the RN never had any DNA surface except for that of LEO handlers?

Who stated there were people in the Ramsey home at 3am? Was it JR? I do believe there must have been.

This horrific event was of deep concern for many people. The A Team was called in to compose the RN of all time in order to explain the SA and the death. The sexual aggression written into the RN and the displayed at the CS coupled with the warnings that JonBenet would be found dead, prepare us for that very thing. The RN was written as a warning to many, including close friends, and those in authoritative places, to not speak to a stray dog. Pretty much everyone obeyed the RN. No one spoke out about the truth of what perpetrated that Christmas Night or of the 23rd and/or hampered the investigation in other ways.

:cow:
 
Why would FW move the suitcase, touch the glass shards, pick up and examine the duct tape?
I don't think there's much of an issue with the moving of the suitcase by Fleet(assuming he has no idea what is in it) or the glass shards but I do believe him going back down to the basement to examine the duct tape and cigar box is a red flag. He did this against orders, which means he felt it worth the risk to get a second look at these items. Why? What was so interesting to him about those two items at that very moment?


Fernie. JF reads the RN upside down, while standing from outside a side door, where the closest the RN could possibly be, where it was moved from the staircase steps and placed onto the kitchen tile floor, would be inside that particular area, on the floor, where JR was down on his knees reading it while in his underwear. Give me a break. Fernie was already there. Parked in the alley.
Yeah that story always reeked of horse manure.

Escorts her 9yo brother straight to his own home before 8am where the Rs had been less than twelve hours earlier. Sorry. That makes no sense to me.
Fleet and/or John cant be blamed for this.....the blame should be aimed at BPD and/or FBI. Burke never should've been allowed to walk anywhere much less be driven somewhere without a BPD/FBI escort. It was still in the kidnapping phase at that point.

IMO you're going a bit too far with Fleet as a "faction leader" but on the other hand, he's a key figure in the case even if just as a witness as he's the only person on the planet besides John to make multiple trips down to the basement and also the only person besides John to open the wine cellar door.

In the 'war' thread, Madeleine posted...

And what about FW's actions,he arrives at 6.03 and at 6.06 he checks the basement.Is it another coincidence,straight to the crime scene.And JR's trips to the basement.One opens the door and sees nothing (claiming that he didn't know where the switch was,but others confirm he was there shortly before the murder) and the other opens the same door and instantly sees the blanket.

Don't you think that one of them is lying?I am still not sure which one,that's what I am trying to find out. (mission impossible,I know)
Three minutes from arrival to being down in the basement? Now that's what I'd call a "beeline".

Of course someone is lying. Their stories don't match on how her body was found for starters.

Its almost impossible to decipher or unravel the basement sequence since so much evidence has been withheld.
 
Extra links inserted by me. Bumping entire excellent sequence for newbies.



Scroll and Roll.
*Sensitive Content Warning*

I think this would work. I know you are referring to the culprit being BR but I'm not. Her little hands were dirty but didn't her fingernails have her own DNA and tiny marks on her neck where she tried to pry the rope away from choking her?

So we have JB hanging in death due to asphyxiation from the bang on the head forcing JB to collapse forward. JB has to be cut down, causing the rope ends to fray, from the accidental hanging that started when JB screamed b/c that is why she was hit ferociously upon the head. In your synopsis, the two causes of death occur simultaneously. However, JK has told us that she could have lived up to an hour after the fatal head blow before being fatally strangled.

If the first ligature left the white blanching around the front of her neck, couldn't a fresh cord be used for the final assault? Therefore, there was actually a double strangulation with the first one, as you state, by accident, and the second one as staging for the Police to find.

The furrow in JBs neck is mighty deep for it to be a cover up and not the Real McCoy.

Lord, forgive me, for these thoughts are just awful. Poor JB.



Don't forget Part 6....which is actually the last part, not part 5.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-Strangulation-Devices&p=5796846#post5796846
 

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