Gerard Baden Clay's murder appeal #2

[Fluffykins]

but anyways, it all added to the pain for Gerard and for that, I have no dispute..

Yes, let's have a round of applause for the state of his mind when he was told he'll go down in history as a murderer and nothing can ever change that.

 

[Couldbe]

His first Legal Representative was Peter Davis, who acted in his Defence at the Committal. I don't know the reason why Baden Clay didn't continue with him.

Trooper, do you think Baden Clay thought that he needed a Barrister who had a higher probability of success (Davis not having been successful in preventing him being put on trial), not necessarily one who believed in him?

You seem to know Baden Clay, or is it just that he conforms to his type of personality?

 

[Trooper]

His first Legal Representative was Peter Davis, who acted in his Defence at the Committal. I don't know the reason why Baden Clay didn't continue with him.

Trooper, do you think Baden Clay thought that he needed a Barrister who had a higher probability of success (Davis not having been successful in preventing him being put on trial), not necessarily one who believed in him?

You seem to know Baden Clay, or is it just that he conforms to his type of personality?

he conforms to a certain type.. there is nothing original about Gerard. ... One can read him like a book. He is predictable.

I think that Gerard's situation was bandied about the legal fraternity in Brisbane for quite a while. On the face of his first verdict, he didn't have a lot to appeal with, Danny Boyle was meticulous in that respect. I imagine that Peter Boyle was committed elsewhere with other cases ( and if not, he might have made sure that he was extracommitted , months of Gerard would be enough for a saint )

There wasn't much to go on and certainly, the current crop of barristers representing Gerard didn't find anything wrong with the judge at his trial to hang elements of mitigation at the Appeal. And then, there is the money. There is always the money. This lot of Barristers would have most likely demanded a hefty deposit, at least 1/2 , if not more before putting pen to paper. And this money had to be raised. I think it was more a matter of who would take it on, rather than who Gerard wanted to represent him.


To hark back on Gerard's type. Just for the hell of it, I went back and listened to his first public appearance on the national stage.. this was not his pre recorded efforts at public relations stuff, all dolled up in the Yellow Jacket ( who has that mouldering thing now? .. some one who wants a memento of 'romance' , probably ) but his call to the police the morning Alison was declared to be missing. The 7.30 call, Gerard driving aimlessly around Brookie, he says..

And it becomes clear what a lousy actor he is. He truly had no idea how a man who's wife is missing would present himself to the police. He never thought to look it up. On this recording he is exactly the same in his real estate ads. Exactly. Same tone, same emotion, same presentation.

 

[Couldbe]

Thank you Trooper ........... and sooooo interesting to follow your investigative assessment of his 'presentation' style.

I have looked back at some of the public comments made by various members of the prominent Legal Professions ......... no doubt they are still debating where the case went wrong too.

A very big sigh of relief for us that we, the 'uneducated Public', didn't need to pay attention to the derogatory comments of those clever Legal Spokespersons. Thank Goodness we have a High Court!

 

[BreakingNews]

Yes, let's have a round of applause for the state of his mind when he was told he'll go down in history as a murderer and nothing can ever change that.

I liked the way the media refers to him now as not just a murderer, but a wife murderer. And we can all imagine him being "smug, arrogant and in denial" before this latest verdict. I can't be convinced that he has now accepted his lot. He will still be making excuses and it will be everyone else's fault other than his.

 

[LadyBird1]

he conforms to a certain type.. there is nothing original about Gerard. ... One can read him like a book. He is predictable.

I think that Gerard's situation was bandied about the legal fraternity in Brisbane for quite a while. On the face of his first verdict, he didn't have a lot to appeal with, Danny Boyle was meticulous in that respect. I imagine that Peter Boyle was committed elsewhere with other cases ( and if not, he might have made sure that he was extracommitted , months of Gerard would be enough for a saint )

There wasn't much to go on and certainly, the current crop of barristers representing Gerard didn't find anything wrong with the judge at his trial to hang elements of mitigation at the Appeal. And then, there is the money. There is always the money. This lot of Barristers would have most likely demanded a hefty deposit, at least 1/2 , if not more before putting pen to paper. And this money had to be raised. I think it was more a matter of who would take it on, rather than who Gerard wanted to represent him.


To hark back on Gerard's type. Just for the hell of it, I went back and listened to his first public appearance on the national stage.. this was not his pre recorded efforts at public relations stuff, all dolled up in the Yellow Jacket ( who has that mouldering thing now? .. some one who wants a memento of 'romance' , probably ) but his call to the police the morning Alison was declared to be missing. The 7.30 call, Gerard driving aimlessly around Brookie, he says..

And it becomes clear what a lousy actor he is. He truly had no idea how a man who's wife is missing would present himself to the police. He never thought to look it up. On this recording he is exactly the same in his real estate ads. Exactly. Same tone, same emotion, same presentation.

Wow Trooper! I am in awe of your ESP (Extra Sensory Perception) or whatever it is(!) skills. Or is it something else, something to do with clear sight? Clear vision?
Down to to earth, basic, (cut through all the crap stuff); ability to see the situation for what it is.
Wonder if this is plumb natural in you, or are you a trained psychologist or similar?
Nah! Reckon you would never let on anything personal 'bout yourself! Heh heh!
No worries, your very clear insights here are much appreciated by myself.... And I somehow reckon I am not alone!
PS Who is Hunter Thompson?

 

[KG1]

September 1, 2016 11:30pm

[h=1]Legal experts say decision to testify was Gerard Baden-Clay’s ultimate downfall[/h]http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/legal-experts-say-decision-to-testify-was-gerard-badenclays-ultimate-downfall/news-story/df75cef31bc020ca5f98f27d3d16c959

Only a narcissist does that, and goes against all advice. Look at moi, look at moi, look at moi!

 

[kiwijayne]

I talked to my friend who testified and she's very happy with the outcome.

 

[Tishy]

Everything you all have said, right back at you. What a lovely, crazy bunch, and through this forum I have met some lifelong friends. Thank you.
Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered at the care and support from people who did, and didn't know her. Rest in peace now, dear Al. Your babies are safe.

 

[Couldbe]

Everything you all have said, right back at you. What a lovely, crazy bunch, and through this forum I have met some lifelong friends. Thank you.
Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered at the care and support from people who did, and didn't know her. Rest in peace now, dear Al. Your babies are safe.

Hear Hear! Tishy, and beautifully said.

I am asking myself why I am still here on Websleuths; maybe the answer for me is that it was back in April 2012 so much time was spent glued to this site late into the night. When sleep beckoned the mind remained active trying out every possible scenario in an effort to establish where Allison was and what might have happened to her phone.

With the events that have transpired since, there is satisfaction that justice has been served for Allison and her girls are being cared for in the very best way possible. When I think of them, my heart still aches for those girls and Allison’s Parents.

I think it is just taking a little more time as we continue to share our continuing thoughts together.

As you say Tishy, Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered at the care and support from people who did, and didn't know her. …….……..

 

[LadyBird1]

Everything you all have said, right back at you. What a lovely, crazy bunch, and through this forum I have met some lifelong friends. Thank you.
Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered at the care and support from people who did, and didn't know her. Rest in peace now, dear Al. Your babies are safe.

Glad the thread can still continue, such a lot of stuff has come to the fore ....
Tishy, your words "Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered... etc"
Strange thing is these thoughts have been resonating with me much, of late.....
This is the silent shadow behind many a Domestic Violence Situation. Not comprehending.
I believe that Allison had no inkling of what her husband was capable of. In regards to murder that is...
I believe she might have pegged him for a twit. He might have needed extra love, needed a helping hand. Etc... (She willing gave this, as evidenced by supplying him with a job at Flight Centre, etc) I believe she might have realized that it must be she, who must carry the reins. (He was incapable, despite his empty talk).
I believe she trusted her husband. With her children, with her whole being, with her life. I believe she thought he was capable of change.... because she loved him ....
It is quite possible the word Narcissist had never entered her vocabulary.
That the words "Life Insurance Policy, Adultery, Financial Woes, Liar, Cheat, and Fraud (and possibly Nincompoop); all in the one sentence; might equal a potentially very Dangerous Red Alert Situation.
When he decided to monitor her every movement, her conversations, her friends, her own family, did she know or realize was this might be a clandestine control manoeuvre?
So many hidden facets of domestic violence in this very sad story.

 

[kiwijayne]

I never expected when I started that first thread so long ago that this would have happened.

Justice has been finally served for what was an awesome Mum, daughter and sister that Allison was.

She was close to my house and I'm proud that she has been finally laid to rest and her murderer is finally getting his punishment.

Plus we've bought people together !

 

[Tishy]

Glad the thread can still continue, such a lot of stuff has come to the fore ....
Tishy, your words "Allison would have been utterly amazed and slightly bewildered... etc"
Strange thing is these thoughts have been resonating with me much, of late.....
This is the silent shadow behind many a Domestic Violence Situation. Not comprehending.
I believe that Allison had no inkling of what her husband was capable of. In regards to murder that is...
I believe she might have pegged him for a twit. He might have needed extra love, needed a helping hand. Etc... (She willing gave this, as evidenced by supplying him with a job at Flight Centre, etc) I believe she might have realized that it must be she, who must carry the reins. (He was incapable, despite his empty talk).
I believe she trusted her husband. With her children, with her whole being, with her life. I believe she thought he was capable of change.... because she loved him ....
It is quite possible the word Narcissist had never entered her vocabulary.
That the words "Life Insurance Policy, Adultery, Financial Woes, Liar, Cheat, and Fraud (and possibly Nincompoop); all in the one sentence; might equal a potentially very Dangerous Red Alert Situation.
When he decided to monitor her every movement, her conversations, her friends, her own family, did she know or realize was this might be a clandestine control manoeuvre?
So many hidden facets of domestic violence in this very sad story.

Ladybird, I think your 'not comprehending' is likely the most accurate scenario. Disbelief. Not recognising - because they have no idea these people even exist. A person who has never run across, let alone married one of these narcissists before, a Nice Person brought up by Nice Parents has no idea of how toxic, seductive and manipulative they are.

A complete innocent. A High Achiever with ambition, pride, humility and intelligence. Sacrifices everything to please him - because she genuinely loves him. Puts him first, because she loves him. Believes passionately in her marriage vows.

But over the years, she learns; because she is smart, and has self-respect despite his attempts to demolish it; despite loving him, there is a limit to the rubbish she can take - and when it starts to affect her children, she clicks. She says to herself in growing realisation: that monitoring of my conversations, that cutting me off from my friends and family support, those affairs, that mean behaviour, wasn't because he was insecure that I didn't love him enough. It was because he is controlling and evil and manipulative. She doesn't really trust him, not after so many lies: but she so desperately, desperately, wants him to be the husband he sold himself as.
He would never be that - he simply wasn't capable of it. And she starts to realise. When people tell her, 'er, you do realise that's not normal, don't you..' she thinks. Her brain wakes up; she starts to protect herself emotionally. She takes the initiative. She says: 'Enough - my way or the highway'.

And that's when it became really dangerous. She just had no idea how dangerous.

You are so right. This is domestic violence. We need to raise our kids to understand that they must NEVER accept behaviour toward them from someone who professes to love them, that they would not accept from a stranger on the street.

 

[Fluffykins]

A person who has never run across, let alone married one of these narcissists before, a Nice Person brought up by Nice Parents has no idea of how toxic, seductive and manipulative they are.

Yep. I grew up with a narcissistic older brother; the nastiest person I've ever met. He made his younger siblings' childhood misery; he punched our mother's upper arms black and blue. And then you'd see him being utterly charming to people outside the family, and it was incredible - he was the nicest, funniest person. As ridiculous as it sounds, I couldn't help liking him when he was being that person, even while knowing it was all an act; and in fact that still holds true today.

But at least when you've known someone like that in childhood, you are well and truly armed to deal with any you meet as an adult.

I wonder about the resilience training Allison was giving at her daughters' school - whether she got into that because she knew she needed it herself in dealing with Gerard; to what extent it was aimed at helping the girls deal with Gerard.

 

[LadyBird1]

Chief crime reporter Kate Kyriacou has covered the Baden-Clay murder case since day one. Now she tells of the extra two years of torment Allison Baden-Clay's family was forced to endure.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/rende...r/news-story/a943b8adff4c05f0c208b9701bba006d


Kate Kyriacou's report, together with Trooper's latest very earthy insights expose another matter here.

That is Historical Negationism or denialism, an illegitimate distortion of the historical record. Often imprecisely referred to as historical revisionism,

I believe the Clay family were employing this tactical manoeuvre, in the same manner as occurs in military situations. This was their defense. Re-writing facts.

They got up on stage, (or was that in Court?) and did an act. Breathtaking it was, (for all the wrong reasons.)

Then it was Gerard's turn. And he got up on the same stage and played a better card.

 

[LadyBird1]

Friend’s emotional tribute to Allison Baden-Clay .....What a statement, this!

“The ignorance it seems, lay elsewhere.”

 

[LadyBird1]

In the five weeks it took prosecutors to convince a jury Gerard Baden-Clay had murdered his wife, Allison’s grieving family had to listen to an awful, alien depiction of her put forward by his defence.
Yes, and it might be noted that EBC walked out of the Court when victim impact statements were being read.

 

[LadyBird1]

frankly, I think a part of Gerard's compulsion to take the stand and testify, was a sort of silent competition with his father and sister.. . he had sat there listening to their performance, and believed he could do better. There had to be a strong undeniable compulsion as it was about the most dangerous thing he could do in court. A huge , huge risk, with a tiniest chance of a payoff...

As a matter of fact, I think he believed he could do better on the stand than Toni. Certainly he could do better than all those other cranky and whining prosecution witnesses, after all, wasn't he the Great Gerard?? As usual, it was all too much, discretion being the better part of valour had no part to play in Gerard's scenario.

Never crossed his tiny mind that he was weaving his own noose.

I do think , though, that his barristers played him a bit.. the position they took to the appeal , while it may have looked like a win for Gerard, commonsense would have surely foreseen the utter rejection by the public in general of that result and a closer look at the thing.

but anyways, it all added to the pain for Gerard and for that, I have no dispute..

Out Snookered?

 

[LadyBird1]

He asked me for my daughter's hand in marriage and I gave him my permission, but I didn't give you permission to betray her.

We accepted you into our family and you abused our trust with your lies and deceit.

I am devastated, incensed and outraged by the way you have damaged and sullied the memory of my daughter's life by your statements and innuendos when she is not here to defend herself, adding to the pain and suffering of our family.

 

[PainExpress]

In the five weeks it took prosecutors to convince a jury Gerard Baden-Clay had murdered his wife, Allison’s grieving family had to listen to an awful, alien depiction of her put forward by his defence.
Yes, and it might be noted that EBC walked out of the Court when victim impact statements were being read.

Very ugly family

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