Remains found confirmed as Jacob Wetterling/Suspect led LE to Remains #2

[otto]

Seems like bloggers and armchair wannabees are the ones that helped end this nightmare.

Howso?

I have read claims that bloggers connected a car with the one used to abduct Jacob, but we know a car was not seen. Add that there is an exact match between the tire tracks, and shoe print, to Heinrich's shoes and vehicle tires. That isn't true. Imply that police simply didn't follow due diligence in this missing person's case. Know that although Heinrich was interviewed early in the case, but police had no reason to detain or arrest him. The shoes and tires were the same, but if people were arrested for having shoes sole patterns identical to a particular shoe in a shoe database, there were be even more wrongful convictions.

 

[Cappuccino]

Thank you! If I understand correctly, a jailhouse confession (moment of sharing) led to confirmation that Heinrich was responsible for Jacob's disappearance.

No, I think it was the lawyers. Jailhouse snitches are ten a penny, and not reliable. Once you disclose to your lawyer that you've killed someone, and you're already up on federal charges, their ethical obligation to act in your best interests is to advise you to make the best plea deal possible. The disclosure of the murder also limits their ability to defend you if you refuse the plea deal because, contrary to what a lot of people think, defence attorneys are not allowed to lie in court or suborn perjury in their clients' defense. If it had been a jailhouse snitch, DH could have gone to trial and been acquitted, but his own attorneys telling him he had to fess up in order not to be sentenced to a thousand years for multiple child *advertiser censored* charges is a different thing.

That's what he caved into, he was a coward all along, even when he gave up the truth.

 

[human]

Howso?

I have read claims that bloggers connected a car with the one used to abduct Jacob, but we know a car was not seen. Add that there is an exact match between the tire tracks, and shoe print, to Heinrich's shoes and vehicle tires. That isn't true. Imply that police simply didn't follow due diligence in this missing person's case. Know that although Heinrich was interviewed early in the case, but police had no reason to detain or arrest him. The shoes and tires were the same, but if people were arrested for having shoes sole patterns identical to a particular shoe in a shoe database, there were be even more wrongful convictions.

Have you read Eloc's book? He is the one who found a missing interview with Duane Hart which led to info re Heinrich which led to Eloc talking with Shane Bell.

 

[kaen]

The lawyers approach LEO about a deal as it was widely reported before the plea court date. The lawyers began discussion with the prosecuting attorneys in August. When the deal was hammered out the lawyers went to the police with the location. If it was a snitch, do we think that Heinrich would trust anybody to tell this to after all this time? If it was a snitch, they would have had to get confirmation and suss it out to see if it was true. I can't see Heinrich turning on a dime within a day of someone coming to LEO.

 

[otto]

Thats not fair. LE found Heinrich first, bloggers hassled them about it much later, and then LE confirmed it.

Absolutely the arrest was the result of a police investigation, not vigilante sleuth activity.

 

[PositiveLight]

Heinrich's parents are both deceased. His father died in 02' and his mother in 07'.

He has two brothers. Interesting find, one of his brothers was arrested in 2014 for 2nd degree assault and terroristic threats.

I'm sure I can find more - but like human said, we can't post it.

ETA: His father worked for a construction company for 30 years until 1987 when he retired. I can't find any locations for the company he worked for near Paynesville but perhaps back in the 80s? Perhaps this is why DH knew where keys might be?

This is what i was curious about too! How did he know? This may be the answer!

 

[Cappuccino]

Absolutely the arrest was the result of a police investigation, not vigilante sleuth activity.

I wouldn't be too contemptuous about vigilante sleuth activity. The mass of it is neither here nor there, the worst of it is clamped down on by the mods, and the rare best of it can actually help. For example, the posters like Cubby and roselvr who have managed to do a lot to match missing persons to unidentified bodies.

 

[HoneySugar]

Child sexual abuse has been around for centuries. It seems like the silence was broken only in the last 30-40 years. So often we learn that the perpetrators of the abuse were victims of the abuse. That's the part that I find difficult to understand. As a victim, what goes to wrong that the victim becomes the perpetrator? Is it a lack of counselling, an absence of the opportunity to process the experience in a healthy environment? Why does the child victim grow up to be the person who victimizes children - as though to blame the child for the experience?

I was at a training seminar one time in which the speaker stated that this information is actually inaccurate. When convicted sex offenders claiming to have been abused were hooked up to a polygraph and asked about the "abuse" they endured, only about 1%-2% were found to be telling the truth. I wish I could remember the name of the speaker so that I could cite a source--I just remember that piece of information really stuck with me.

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[HoneySugar]

It should be pointed out that most people who are abused as children don't grow up to be abusers at all.

And this is VERY true as well.

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[human]

Lots of effects of abuse. https://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/docs/lib...ult-survivors-of-childhood-abuse.pdf?sfvrsn=0

 

[human]

We can see the effects of love and the effects of abuse, The Wetterlings vs the Heinrichs.

 

[Inthedetails]

We can see the effects of love and the effects of abuse, The Wetterlings vs the Heinrichs.

That statement says it all.

 

[katydid23]

We can see the effects of love and the effects of abuse, The Wetterlings vs the Heinrichs.

I was sexually abused by an uncle for an ongoing period of time. HOWEVER, I had a lot of love and support from my family, who had no idea it was going on. He was our after school babysitter while my parents were divorcing.

So I ended up working for a non-profit group that counseled child abuse survivors. We held weekly group support meetings, much like AA or Alanon.

One of the main things I learned was that children who had love and strong support, even from one person, like a grandparent or foster parent or teacher, were able to withstand that painful experience and grow and move past it. They do not end up as abusers or addicts etc. Although many go through periods of crisis and imbalance.

But those who have no stability or love and support in childhood, do often end up carrying on the abuse themselves. We counseled sex offender groups at some point and their personal stories of childhood abuse often included a total lack of any stability, love, caring as a backdrop to their abuse. Often they had addicts and alcoholics as parents and had no where to turn when they tried to heal from the abuse.

So I don't think it is the experience of being abused that creates 'abusers'---I think it is that experience, coupled with having no stability, love and support, that turns one into a sex offender. JMO

 

[human]

https://acestoohigh.com/2016/09/08/7-ways-childhood-adversity-changes-a-childs-brain/

 

[Rocco]

I was sexually abused by an uncle for an ongoing period of time. HOWEVER, I had a lot of love and support from my family, who had no idea it was going on. He was our after school babysitter while my parents were divorcing.

So I ended up working for a non-profit group that counseled child abuse survivors. We held weekly group support meetings, much like AA or Alanon.

One of the main things I learned was that children who had love and strong support, even from one person, like a grandparent or foster parent or teacher, were able to withstand that painful experience and grow and move past it. They do not end up as abusers or addicts etc. Although many go through periods of crisis and imbalance.

But those who have no stability or love and support in childhood, do often end up carrying on the abuse themselves. We counseled sex offender groups at some point and their personal stories of childhood abuse often included a total lack of any stability, love, caring as a backdrop to their abuse. Often they had addicts and alcoholics as parents and had no where to turn when they tried to heal from the abuse.

So I don't think it is the experience of being abused that creates 'abusers'---I think it is that experience, coupled with having no stability, love and support, that turns one into a sex offender. JMO

What you've posted appears to be 100% accurate. According to Human's link:

Researchers have identified three protective mechanisms—factors that kept mothers from abusing their own children. These were as follows:

1) emotional support from at least one non-abusive adult during childhood,

2) participation in therapy at some point, and

3) a stable, satisfying relationship as an adult.

Mothers with one or more of these protective factors were able to break the cycle of abuse (Egeland, Jacobvitz & Sroufe 1988; Zuravin, McMillen, DePanfilis & RisleyCurtiss1996).

 

[PositiveLight]

I was a rape crisis advocate for a period of time and learned a lot during that time. (Also helped me deal with a personal issue by helping others). I managed several scary situations including where a boyfriend of a mother was trying to break down a bathroom door to get to a young girl. Her mother was abused and obviously didn't break the cycle. The girl was saved by my 911 call but it goes to prove the cycle has to be broken. She said to me while screaming and crying " I will never let my kids go through this". Very poignant that a young girl understood the situation so clearly. That she HAD to understand it saddened me.
I think it speaks of the will of the abused to break the cycle. Some don't have the strength.But I don't think all abused individuals also become an abuser. Some do I'm sure. But I would think not very many.
Maybe it has to do with the time it occurs to them? Formative years may instill in them a tendency to also abuse. Young adults I feel wouldn't. They understand and can fathom the pain they would cause. Younger children that haven't reached that milestone could basically have their switch turned off sort of speak to how it would affect another. They are numb to it. Or its all they've ever known. Make sense?

 

[otto]

I have not read all the dirty details of the assaults perpetrated by Danny Heinrich.

I don't want to read the dirty details because I don't need them in my head.

In the dirty detail transcript, is there any information that changes the public understanding of the circumstances of the abduction and murder? For example, is there any change to the fact that three shots were allegedly fired, but perhaps only one bullet hole is in his head?

If that doesn't sound like "obfuscation", then there is no such word.

 

[FBI Surveillance Van]

Good Post.. But I think First burial site would be closer to the large pond adjacent.. Previous quarry

Heinrich court transcript, Page 20 line 20 ([bracketed opinions], italics, bold, and underlines are mine)

MR.SCHLEICHER: Okay. And where specifically in Paynesville did you go?

THE DEFENDANT: I went to that -- when I got to Paynesville, before I got to Paynesville, I turned on the sewage pond road. [road used to be straight @45.386344, -94.691575 , and went all the way to the sewage pond in 1989 before the 23 bypass was put in].[/] About 100 yards up that road, there is an approach [@45.387308, -94.691619] and -- to a field next to a grove of trees.[marks eastern edge of this former (1989) grove of trees (can be seen with historicaerials.com@45.387571, -94.692767]

MR.SCHLEICHER: And this area, is there also a gravel pit in the area.

THE DEFENDANT: There was then yes.[@45.390911, -94.698505]

MR.SCHLEICHER: This was an area with which you were familiar, is that right?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, it is.

MR.SCHLEICHER: What happened when you pulled the vehicle into the area near the gravel pit?

THE DEFENDANT: I drove as close as I could to a grove of trees. I stopped the car. [~@45.390911, -94.698505] I got out. I opened the door for Jacob. I unhandcuffed him. I took him over to the grove of trees.[~@45.387502, -94.692701 ~75-100ft. NE from car]

[skipping ahead to page 23 of transcript]

THE DEFENDANT: Yes. On the way back to the car, there was a patrol car that came down the road with no siren with its lights, and it headed east on Paynesville. [I think he could have meant "coming from the east on into Paynesville", but no matter - either way the view of this type of event would be easy to picture from @45.387457, -94.692632]

MR.SCHLEICHER: After a couple of hours passed, did you return to the gravel pit area where Jacob Wetterling was lying? [~@45.387457, -94.692632]

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I did.

MR.SCHLEICHER: What did you do?

THE DEFENDANT: I dragged him off about 100 yards off to the north of the site where I shot him. [~@45.388063, -94.692714 some larger hardwood trees were growing there in 1989, all gone now]

MR.SCHLEICHER: What was your purpose in returning to the site?

THE DEFENDANT: To bury him.

MR. SCHLEICHER: Can you describe the area please?

THE DEFENDANT: It would be to the north of the, of the -- where I shot him. 100 yards to the north, northwest -- northeast. Correction.
[Heinrich seems a little confused here about the exact orientation (N/NW/NE), maybe because old 23 is his incorrect E/W reference, and the treeline there does not run perpendicular to that.].....I remembered there was a construction company next door [@45.388508, -94.686457].......I turned the lights on to find out where I had left him, and I found him, and I dug a grave with the Bobcat at that site.

[IMO based on above~@45.388063, -94.692714 ]

 

[Rocco]

Search Warrant

http://www.grandforksherald.com/new...documents-provide-more-detail-wetterling-case

 

[Chicago273]

I have alot of unanswered questions too! Some of my top ones are...

1. The search warrant included the gun, (That tells me that DH told investigators he buried it with him) Where is is? What did they find in the grave exactly?
2. Did DH bring LE to the original burial site? (can't find info on that) Was that site excavated? Why not? So much evidence/remains would most likely still be in place here..
3. Whats LE explanation on why the jacket was 15 yards/or feet away from JW remains? (That distance in movement can only be deliberate).
4. Does LE believe there are other victims ? Monsters don't stop after something like this. Why are they not talking about it, either way?
Would like to see some facts on these questions, if you have them, or theories..