Post Any Dateline Discussions Here!

[Tadpole12]

I don't know if he's paying B, but I would assume he is. I think the real reason for going on Dr. Phil is so that Mr. Wood can bring defamation law suits against networks or people with assets. This has and will stir up talk, thus giving the attorney opportunity to "go after" those who "slander" or "libel" Burke. If Dr. Phil is truly represented by L Wood as reported, then you can bet Dr. Phil will be doing a soft toss. JMO based on 'the past, which is the predictor of the future'.

Yes, I'm wondering how thoroughly JK's
theory is discussed in the upcoming.
The book is full of inferences?

 

[YouWho]

BBM. And I think that is why Hunter and his advisory team chose not to formally indict. The punishment naturally rendered on those involved, especially the responsible, was horrendous. There would have been no purpose to send anyone to prison because what remained of his/her/their life/lives would be punishment enough. Taxpayers also were saved a lot of money and Hunter and crew were saved from a long, hard "day in court."

I still think Patsy killed JonBenet but that woman suffered the rest of her life in so many ways and prison would not have served any good purpose in my view.

My main gripe is why the Ramseys just couldn't seem to keep their mouths shut.

The same could be said for many ppl who accidentally killed their child. But unless you are insulated by millions of dollars, know people in high places, have your own Public Relations firm, etc., you will not be able to live out the rest of your miserable life in the comfort of your own home, being able to control the narrative, have your Dr. there to prescribe Paxil and Ativan, travel out of state for superior cancer treatments, write your own book as a historical record for your future generations, still get to wear your fur coats, etc., etc.

 

[buggiegirl]

All I could think while watching tonight was, what if the Ramseys had been poor minority parents with a child found dead in their basement?

Yikes, given the state of our justice system a lot of the time I don't even want to consider that. Did Colorado have the death penalty at the time?

 

[otg]

I don't know if he's paying B, but I would assume he is. I think the real reason for going on Dr. Phil is so that Mr. Wood can bring defamation law suits against networks or people with assets. This has and will stir up talk, thus giving the attorney opportunity to "go after" those who "slander" or "libel" Burke. If Dr. Phil is truly represented by L Wood as reported, then you can bet Dr. Phil will be doing a soft toss. JMO based on 'the past, which is the predictor of the future'.

Greetings, old friend. (Saw you in chat, but you didn't answer.)

Ol' Woody sure got stirred up last night. He was threatening anyone who said almost anything positive about Dateline -- which I thought was fairly even-handed on both sides. I think he deleted a lot of his tweets made earlier in the evening even before I called it a night. He was especially aggravated toward Josh Mankowhatever for not toeing the Ramsey line using A&E as an example of how to present an objective case . I could just picture in my mind his arms flailing all over the place before and after each tweet :floorlaugh:.

 

[buggiegirl]

If anyone is thinking there will be some admission by anyone in the Ramsey family that this was all a coverup for something bad that happened within the house and by someone in the family, there will never be a confession. They've invested 20 years in this coverup; they're not about to disclose what really happened.

There's always the chance some evidence is uncovered that conclusively proves the family was involved and they could go on a press tour to get ahead of it and get their side out first. Say the last special was going to show that Burke had done it (somehow, who knows what evidence could actually prove that), he could conceivably go on Dr Phil to plead his "I was just 9, it was an accident, my parents were terrified of losing me, we're so, so sorry" case before the dirty details hit the air.

That's my .000000005% chance of happening hope!

 

[buggiegirl]

Not in this case...not for me, anyway. I can tell you for a fact, without any hesitation and with complete conviction, I would never shove a broken paintbrush handle into my dead 6 year old daughter's vagina to cover up an accident. Not to save myself...not to save my other child...not under any circumstances. Not ever. Period. End of story.

For me, I don't think any amount of evidence could convince me my visibly normal child was actually dead. I'd be calling 911 for an ambulance and medical assistance so fast. To save my other child, well he's a child, I wouldn't be worried about that.

And to save myself, honestly had I done it somehow, I would be thinking more "how can I make it look like an accident" than "how can I make it look like an intruder did it"? What's more likely, stranger enters house and chaos ensues, or 6 year old irritated mom past her breaking point and mom shoved her and the unimaginable happened? I have little kids, they drive. me. insane. sometimes. I've never hit or pushed them or laid an angry hand on them even (I'm pretty good at "Mommy needs a time out and I will be on the porch" ha!), but I also haven't been broken down by dealing with cancer. I can't imagine the stress that puts on a person. And I know that little kids don't care at all if mom is already at her limit, they want what they want and they want it now!

 

[johnjay]

That's possible, but keep in mind that JR had a more distant relationship with the kids because he wasn't around as much. Patsy was used to dealing with the kids on her own. I could see a scenario where she didn't want to wake him up and complicate things.

We know the Ramseys stayed away from each other for most of the morning. JR didn't act like someone who was trying to support his wife and put on a united front. He acted like someone who was becoming more and more suspicious of his wife.

You could be right. But wasn't it John that tried to plan the "get out of town" fast move? That seems odd to me. Why was he in such a rush to leave? And if he thought his wife was responsible for the cover-up but wasn't in on the cover-up himself then how could he be sure that she wasn't responsible for the murder? And if he couldn't be sure of that, how could he ever trust her with his other child?

 

[UKGuy]

The same could be said for many ppl who accidentally killed their child. But unless you are insulated by millions of dollars, know people in high places, have your own Public Relations firm, etc., you will not be able to live out the rest of your miserable life in the comfort of your own home, being able to control the narrative, have your Dr. there to prescribe Paxil and Ativan, travel out of state for superior cancer treatments, write your own book as a historical record for your future generations, still get to wear your fur coats, etc., etc.

YouWho,
LOL, loved the summary, is it not called a counter-factual these days?

.

 

[UKGuy]

You could be right. But wasn't it John that tried to plan the "get out of town" fast move? That seems odd to me. Why was he in such a rush to leave? And if he thought his wife was responsible for the cover-up but wasn't in on the cover-up himself then how could he be sure that she wasn't responsible for the murder? And if he couldn't be sure of that, how could he ever trust her with his other child?

johnjay,
Yup, sirree , you should email this to DocG. Why is JR leaving town so fast, why was BR farrned out ASAP, why did JR find JonBenet, answers on a postcard, headed JR.

Now back to Jason Bourne and treadmill or is that iron-something, anyway we are in greece and he steals a motor-bike.

.

 

[CorallaroC]

Hi, guys! Sorry I missed the chat, but I just got through watching the recording. I just want to hit a few points and see what you all think.

1) It was clear to me that Ron Walker, the FBI man and one of the most experienced investigators involved, still think the Ramseys are involved some way.

2) I'm puzzled as to why Bob Whitson was given so much credence, since he was only peripherally involved with the case. His comments about disposing of the cord, tape and paintbrush handle goes to something I've been hammering at for a long time: who's to say that there were any of those things LEFT to dispose? The duct tape could have been a used piece; the cord could have been one of Patsy's slings taken apart...so many possibilities.

3) They finally brought up the other DNA profiles at the scene! YES!

4) Bob Grant said flat-out that he couldn't understand Mary Lacy's rationale for clearing the Ramseys. He also said what I've been saying for a while now: that you have to take the varying results of the handwriting examinations with a grain of salt, because it's not a real science.

5) Tom Haney admits he told Patsy things that weren't true. I guess that's one for RST, but he didn't seem to imply that he thinks she's innocent. We know from PMPT that he thought she did it.

6) Dr. Steven Pitt is my new hero in this case. He finally put into words what a lot of us have been saying. But there was one in particular that leaped out at me, and that is his response to people who say, "but how could parents do that?" He said that he's dealt with people who were squeaky-clean on the outside who had done terrible things, and that you can't fool yourself into thinking that someone can't do something because you don't think you can do it, when you yourself don't know until you're in a spot like that. Lord knows we at websleuths have dealt with that thinking too many times to count.

So, any questions? Any answers? Any thoughts? Any reactions? Any food? (I'm hungry!)

Hi SD, excellent post, much to ponder there. I do need to ask a quick Q: in the part I highlighted above - what do you mean by "patsy's slings taken apart"? That is not ringing a bell to me at all. Slings? TIA

p.s. when I first read your post, I sent you a few slices of Chicago pizza via WS remote.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

THE "DATELINE NBC" SPECIAL "WHO KILLED JONBENÉT?" IS THE MOST-WATCHED FRIDAY "DATELINE" IN NEALRY A YEAR AND A HALF, WINS THE NIGHT AMONG THE BIG 4 IN ALL KEY MEASURES

The total viewers (6.5 million) is going to go up even higher once the +3 ratings (DVR stuff, etc) are factored in:

· Will add substantial viewership via time-shifting - the previous Friday's "Dateline NBC" encore delivered the biggest L+3 lifts of the night on the Big 4 networks, growing by +16% in 18-49 rating (from a 0.76 to a 0.88) and 527,000 viewers overall (3.8 million to 4.4 million) going from L+SD to L+3.

A two-hour special "Dateline NBC" special, "Who Killed JonBenét?" (1.2/5 in 18-49, 1.8 in adults 25-54, 6.5 million viewers overall from 9-11 p.m. ET):

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/ratin...alf-131414/20160910nbc01/#ubsxIry07Hk5SqBw.99

 

[i.b.nora]

Unfortunately this potential viewer did not get to see the program at all because the ball game went into extra innings because of a tie and did not end until 11:30 PM !!! at which point Dateline was long over with and it didn't seem like they were going to run it.

But from what was shared in chat by all the people in different time zones who did get to see it my only question really has to do with the women who was the police dispatcher and took Patsy's call. I wonder what her name is? And, was she not questioned by anyone? Attorneys, other police? And, I take it she was not called before the grand jury? How old a woman does she appear to be?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

In case anyone wants to read Lin Wood's tweets from last night without having to scroll through all of his political commentary:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p8x7884mul8bmya/Lin_Wood.rar
The pictures are ordered oldest to newest.

Here are some of Lin Wood's claims re: Dateline
- Says "other suspects had lower scores" with their handwriting than Patsy "on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being elimination" where she scored "4 - 4.5".
- No voices on tape, "Patsy clearly hung up wall phone."
- "no definitive finding of pineapple from autopsy," "it could not be determined to be pineapple", "said 'pineapple like' substance", "The 'pineapple like' substance found in autopsy was never identified" (man, he hates this pineapple)
- "I have sworn court testimony that totally contradicts this statement by Jane Harmer & exposes her as a liar."
- "ZERO pathology" in Ramsey family, "just loving parents."
- Pitt is "incompetent" because she died by strangulation, not blow to the head. (I don't even remember him disputing that.)
- "Alleged grand jury testimony just broadcast attributed to Burke about 911 call is totally fraudulent. He NEVER said it."
- "Your show relies on biased sources like Brennan, Pitt, Harmer & Walker" and didn't spend enough time on the DNA.
- Repeatedly calls Steve Thomas "incompetent."
- "She fell asleep in car on way home & was carried to bedroom by her father"
- Chris Wolf was a male stripper and his case against the Ramseys was frivolous (lol)
- "NO evidence of bedwetting that night"
- Linda Arndt suggested the search and "Friend* suggested start in basement." He doesn't say Fleet but obviously that's who he means.
- "Charlie Brennan anti-Ramsey from Day 1. Knowingly published numerous police lies. No credibility."
- "Tabloid TV for ratings. I saw it coming & declined interview request."
- "I declined to participate when producer suggested Burke would be discussed as suspect."
- "No member of Ramsey Family had Hi-Tec boots. Nor did police."
- "Mistake was relying on Brennan, Harmer, Pitt & Walker. 3 of which had NO direct involvement in investigation. Speculation."
- "The DNA that exonerated Ramseys was certified as not contaminated or artifact."
- "It is false and offensive to describe the Ramseys as nonchalant."
- "Patsy heavily medicated at time of CNN interview in 1996. Friends urged them to do it. John rarely shows emotion publicly." "At the time, others advised them to do interview as they were trying to get police to do proper investigation."
- Kolar is a "whack job."
- "I have some ideas on possible suspects but will not publicly discuss."
- "The grand jury finding was nonsensical. And uninformed by DNA. Boulder PD wanted murder charge. Grand jury said no." "Plus after 18 months, GJ likely felt pressured to give PD something as compromise to go home. But not murder."
- Pageant stuff was normal, "JonBenet video enhanced by tabloids."

I also included a few tweets from the producer Lin Wood was tweeting at all night. He makes sure to mention that none of the investigators they talked to thought Burke was responsible.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

i.b.nora, her name was Kimberly Archuleta. She'll be in the CBS doc as well, and according to the promos for that she was not called before the grand jury. Here is some information about her from Kolar's book:

She had spoken to her son about [the call] later that day, uncomfortable about what she had overheard on the phone call. For some unknown reason, Archuleta was not aware of the outcome of the call she had handled that morning and didn't learn about Jonbenet's death until she returned for her next regularly scheduled shift assignment at the Boulder County Regional Communications Center. Upon hearing of JonBenet's murder, Archuleta nearly became ill. A supervisor directed her to her office where she sat and tried to calm her emotions. She could not get past the notion that something had been wrong about the 911 call and it had been there, troubling her subconscious during her days off.
Archuleta asked her supervisor if police had listened to the 911 tape and was told that they had already obtained a copy of the recording: "What about the end of the call? Have they listened to the tail end of the call after Patsy Ramsey had stopped talking?"
The supervisor looked back at Archuleta with a puzzled look on her face. "What are you talking about?" she asked.
The 911 call didn't end when Patsy stopped talking to her, Archuleta explained. The telephone line had not disconnected immediately, and she had heard a definite change in the tone of Patsy Ramsey's voice before the call was fully terminated. Archuleta explained that the hysterical nature of Patsy Ramsey's voice appeared to have dissipated, and she thought that she had been talking to someone nearby her at the end of the telephone line. Investigators needed to listen to that extended part of the 911 call, Archuleta told her supervisor.

The note at the end of the book says Kolar interviewed her about this in 2005.

 

[Madeleine74]

Patsy was dead by age 50, so she got some kind of Karmic justice for her part.

JR is looked at with great disdain (and he knows it), and isn't the respected businessman he once was.

BR is either a puppet by his parents or he did something really heinous that night and has been buffered from legal/criminal channels. Either way he's forever tied to a story that hasn't lost much steam in 20 years and he'll always be 'that kid who probably knows more than he's saying.'

So I suppose some measure of justice has occurred, although not the kind people wanted, which was a perp walk and criminal prosecution and being thrown in prison for life.

 

[YouWho]

You could be right. But wasn't it John that tried to plan the "get out of town" fast move? That seems odd to me. Why was he in such a rush to leave? And if he thought his wife was responsible for the cover-up but wasn't in on the cover-up himself then how could he be sure that she wasn't responsible for the murder? And if he couldn't be sure of that, how could he ever trust her with his other child?

The thing that strikes me, is that JR voluntarily gave the detective (Patterson) both his and PR's writing tablets. He specifically told the cop that one is his and one is PR's. A massive blunder for a man described as being nervous but in control that morning. I am becoming more firm in the belief that PR accidentally killed her daughter, staged the scene (including actually killing her with the garrot in the process), and that JR took charge in true alpha-male,CEO fashion. That he continued with the fabrications to protect themselves and their son. Self preservation is natural.

Sadly, I also believe he'd been molesting JBR and that, in the sometimes strange way of a marriage, the two of them made a silent deal - most likely never even spoken aloud between the two. John had molested and Patsy had killed. They were both guilty, but neither crime could be definitively proven. To prevent further catastrophic damage to their lives, they defended themselves the only way they knew how - through high priced/powered attorneys and a public campaign of denials, minimizations and distractions via surrogates and the media.

I'm always suspicious of people who are so outspoken about their faith, and they used that to their full advantage. Because God forgives, even if you don't ask for forgiveness until the moment right before your death.

 

[YouWho]

In case anyone wants to read Lin Wood's tweets from last night without having to scroll through all of his political commentary:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p8x7884mul8bmya/Lin_Wood.rar
The pictures are ordered oldest to newest.

Here are some of Lin Wood's claims re: Dateline
- Says "other suspects had lower scores" with their handwriting than Patsy "on a scale of 1-5 with 5 being elimination" where she scored "4 - 4.5".
- No voices on tape, "Patsy clearly hung up wall phone."
- "no definitive finding of pineapple from autopsy," "it could not be determined to be pineapple", "said 'pineapple like' substance", "The 'pineapple like' substance found in autopsy was never identified" (man, he hates this pineapple)
- "I have sworn court testimony that totally contradicts this statement by Jane Harmer & exposes her as a liar."
- "ZERO pathology" in Ramsey family, "just loving parents."
- Pitt is "incompetent" because she died by strangulation, not blow to the head. (I don't even remember him disputing that.)
- "Alleged grand jury testimony just broadcast attributed to Burke about 911 call is totally fraudulent. He NEVER said it."
- "Your show relies on biased sources like Brennan, Pitt, Harmer & Walker" and didn't spend enough time on the DNA.
- Repeatedly calls Steve Thomas "incompetent."
- "She fell asleep in car on way home & was carried to bedroom by her father"
- Chris Wolf was a male stripper and his case against the Ramseys was frivolous (lol)
- "NO evidence of bedwetting that night"
- Linda Arndt suggested the search and "Friend* suggested start in basement." He doesn't say Fleet but obviously that's who he means.
- "Charlie Brennan anti-Ramsey from Day 1. Knowingly published numerous police lies. No credibility."
- "Tabloid TV for ratings. I saw it coming & declined interview request."
- "I declined to participate when producer suggested Burke would be discussed as suspect."
- "No member of Ramsey Family had Hi-Tec boots. Nor did police."
- "Mistake was relying on Brennan, Harmer, Pitt & Walker. 3 of which had NO direct involvement in investigation. Speculation."
- "The DNA that exonerated Ramseys was certified as not contaminated or artifact."
- "It is false and offensive to describe the Ramseys as nonchalant."
- "Patsy heavily medicated at time of CNN interview in 1996. Friends urged them to do it. John rarely shows emotion publicly." "At the time, others advised them to do interview as they were trying to get police to do proper investigation."
- Kolar is a "whack job."
- "I have some ideas on possible suspects but will not publicly discuss."
- "The grand jury finding was nonsensical. And uninformed by DNA. Boulder PD wanted murder charge. Grand jury said no." "Plus after 18 months, GJ likely felt pressured to give PD something as compromise to go home. But not murder."
- Pageant stuff was normal, "JonBenet video enhanced by tabloids."

I also included a few tweets from the producer Lin Wood was tweeting at all night. He makes sure to mention that none of the investigators they talked to thought Burke was responsible.

Thanks for this. I couldn't hack reading through all his political posts. Thank goodness for Chris Wolf's lawsuit which resulted in those depositions. I've been watching them last couple of days. Both Ramsey's body languages and minimizing and denials are very compelling to me.

 

[SplishSplash]

Exactly. Compare Dr. Phil's somber face with Burke's giddiness. It's just unsettling. I don't think many people here expect weeping and bawling but something's off about acting giddy when one's sister has been brutally murdered in their own home.

As for the show last night, I had my mom tape it for me. I just watched it and too many details were left out. As soon as that one guy stated the family was completely normal with no dysfunction, I knew the show was whitewashed in favor of the Ramseys. Not sure what planet he's living on but smearing scat is definitely dysfunctional.

What is this referring to? I have forgotten

 

[Ambitioned]

I find it impossible to believe that Patsy would have been involved with strangling JonBenet (a shove that results in a slip and a serious head injury- maybe - but I don't think that's what happened).

Well, no one believed Andrea Yates could drown five children either. But you're right. Burke doing it would seem more plausible.

 

[buggiegirl]

Well, no one believed Andrea Yates could drown five children either. But you're right. Burke doing it would seem more plausible.

Andrea Yates had severe postpartum psychosis though, Patsy wasn't diagnosed with anything that would make brutally murdering her daughter more understandable. I've always thought that if either parent did the head blow, assuming that came first, it was accidental. I can see JR molesting her, Patsy bringing down a flashlight to hit him and catching JBR instead, then a huge coverup/staging. But I don't know if I can see a planned incident. There is such rage in that head bash.