Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[Linda7NJ]

I would love to know what Burke said during his 6 plus hours with the grand jury. SIX HOURS over two days.

The devil is always in the little details.




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[Kakidoll]

If you believe this, then what is the point of continuing with this case and discussion around it? Websleuths should shut this forum down. If Burke did it, it's done and over. The way I see it, if Burke did do this and his parents covered it up then we have the absolute BEST possible outcome ever. Burke went on the be successful and to our knowledge has never hurt anyone.

Agree with part of this... obviously JR couldn't care less if they find out 'who' killed his daughter. Its not important enough to him or BR. Wonder why that is? Successful, not sure i'd use those words to describe him. Working from home doing computer work. Not a tough gig. A college education can be bought with the right amount of money. He's socially awkward and a 'loner' from what we've heard, even from Dr. P who then went on to change his stance a bit after the fallout from his first show. PR is dead. JR states it financially ruined him (in his eyes at least) and they spend their time suing people. Haven't heard anything about his older kids and how they feel about it lately so can't comment if he has anyone other than BR left. We learned a LOT of info in the past week to 'debate' over. Do i believe 100% of any of the shows. Absolutely not. Will I still keep an open mind. Sure will. Will i continue to chat here and research and hope more comes out. You betcha!

 

[vela341]

Or maybe he'd already made the garrote as part of his plan. He starts to choke her with it and there's a short struggle, but he ends it quickly with a blow to the head with the flashlight. And then he goes back to the strangulation. Which might then account for the questions that arise about which came first and explain any signs of struggle.

Any signs of sexual abuse are explained by him being 'curious' (and creepy).
You read my mind exactly!

 

[Linda7NJ]

The housekeeper claims to have seen a "garrote" exactly that that around a box in the basement


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[Linda7NJ]

She thought Patsy did it when she met with the grand jury


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[mauidreemn]

Agree with part of this... obviously JR couldn't care less if they find out 'who' killed his daughter. Its not important enough to him or BR. Wonder why that is? Successful, not sure i'd use those words to describe him. Working from home doing computer work. Not a tough gig. A college education can be bought with the right amount of money. He's socially awkward and a 'loner' from what we've heard, even from Dr. P who then went on to change his stance a bit after the fallout from his first show. PR is dead. JR states it financially ruined him (in his eyes at least) and they spend their time suing people. Haven't heard anything about his older kids and how they feel about it lately so can't comment if he has anyone other than BR left. We learned a LOT of info in the past week to 'debate' over. Do i believe 100% of any of the shows. Absolutely not. Will I still keep an open mind. Sure will. Will i continue to chat here and research and hope more comes out. You betcha!

Apparently he is quite successful and has had the same girlfriend for years and if you google her, she is gorgeous and successful on her own. Best outcome we could imagine if you believe Burke and Ramsey's were involved.

 

[TeaTime]

BBM LOL argy bargy.

I have wondered if CBS aired this show for the purpose of eliciting a response from BR and LW so everything can be hashed out in civil court since it can never be hashed out in criminal court. I want to believe that there's at least one media outlet that wants this case resolved once and for all so little JBR can rest in peace.

What is argy bargy?

I am sorry to be blunt but the media has no heart, it is all about money. CBS didn't do this special to help solve a murder, they did it for ratings and money. Dr. Phil is their big show on daytime tv and what better way to advertise the original 6 hour special than interviewing the surviving family members in front of its biggest audience pool

 

[Linda7NJ]

What I wouldn't do to watch those edited out two hours....


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[mauidreemn]

What is argy bargy?

I am sorry to be blunt but the media has no heart, it is all about money. CBS didn't do this special to help solve a murder, they did it for ratings and money. Dr. Phil is their big show on daytime tv and what better way to advertise the original 6 hour special than interviewing the surviving family members in front of its biggest audience pool

Exactly and I have to admit, I haven't ever watched Dr. Phil but I put his show on my season pass. So for the most part, this marketing scheme worked. :blushing:

 

[reintarnation]

She thought Patsy did it when she met with the grand jury

Do you mean when PR met with the GJ or LP? IIRC, PR and JR were never called to testify before the GJ. I could be wrong, but thought I read that in Thomas's or Kolar's book. Not sure at all if LP was called, so just trying to clarify who you meant. Thanks!

 

[Heymom]

Do you mean when PR met with the GJ or LP? IIRC, PR and JR were never called to testify before the GJ. I could be wrong, but thought I read that in Thomas's or Kolar's book. Not sure at all if LP was called, so just trying to clarify who you meant. Thanks!

That is correct. Neither Patsy nor John was called to testify. p. 178 Foreign Faction

 

[Kakidoll]

Apparently he is quite successful and has had the same girlfriend for years and if you google her, she is gorgeous and successful on her own. Best outcome we could imagine if you believe Burke and Ramsey's were involved.

And can you share links of this? I've seen her pic..But that's all I know...except she looks similar to how some predict jbr would look today.

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[mauidreemn]

And can you share links of this? I've seen her pic..But that's all I know...except she looks similar to how some predict jbr would look today.

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Oh for crying out loud. Have you ever heard of any crime, assault, etc that Burke has committed in the past 20 years? Dr. Phil said he is successful and has had the same girlfriend for years.

 

[TexMex]

Oh for crying out loud. Have you ever heard of any crime, assault, etc that Burke has committed in the past 20 years? Dr. Phil said he is successful and has had the same girlfriend for years.

IIRC he's employed as a software developer after graduating from Purdue. A buddy of my son has a job (works from home) developing software and makes a little over $100,000/yr

 

[expat79]

Oh for crying out loud. Have you ever heard of any crime, assault, etc that Burke has committed in the past 20 years? Dr. Phil said he is successful and has had the same girlfriend for years.

Hopefully she never tries to touch his pineapple.

 

[PositiveLight]

After thinking about it for a while I would say NO, he wasn't involved! It all seems too implausible for me to believe he accidentally killed her and then the parents covering up for him. We would have to believe too many crazy things IMO for the family theory to be true. These piece of evidence that Lou Smit brought up are enough for me to trust the intruder theory -

The intruder left no footprints because he went around and avoided the snow - http://i.imgur.com/AzYkumz.png / http://i.imgur.com/7lThNRs.png / http://i.imgur.com/9Azf8FG.png
Foliage trapped underneath the metal grill, which the intruder moved to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/TWtMJep.png
And we see a disturbance when he landed his feet underneath the metal grill - http://i.imgur.com/1aRmDJs.png
The intruder left his fingerprints on the window he used to get inside the basement - http://i.imgur.com/3YmHVpI.png
The intruder left a shoe print on the briefcase he used to escape the house - http://i.imgur.com/UCummhi.png
Left a shoe/sneaker mark on the wall and left the window open - http://i.imgur.com/KowhrYl.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét's stun gun marks - http://i.imgur.com/U82Ck5H.png
With the electric arch clearly seen here - http://i.imgur.com/E8lQ2E6.png / http://i.imgur.com/YVyNHuW.png
The garrote used to strangle JonBenét was pulled so hard and violently that pieces of her hair were stuck on it, you really think her parents or brother could have done that? - http://i.imgur.com/2Nyxga2.png / http://i.imgur.com/NdwTliI.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) JonBenét was strangled so violently you can see red marks around her entire neck - http://i.imgur.com/BuwGhBz.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) So it wasn't just "planted" their by her parents to make it look like a strangulation. She really was severely strangled - http://i.imgur.com/solzTQ3.png
(WARNING: GRAPHIC) Her fingernail marks on her neck suggesting she was fighting back against the strangulation proving she was alive first & strangled. Then she was hit over the head that cracked her skull and died shortly after the blow - http://i.imgur.com/P7ydZLV.png

To me this makes more sense then the "family did it" theory. I can't see Burke hitting her so hard to crack her skull then the parents finding out and covering it up by strangling the daughter they loved very much in the basement to cause severe marks around JonBenét's neck, then sexually assaulting her, then breaking the glass window in the basement, leaving footprint marks, writing a note under great emotional stress and saying they would "behead" their own daughter? The language in the note suggests an intruder wrote it because the language used in the note would not come from an intelligent and caring person like Patsy who loved her daughter too much. Patsy or John didn't have that kind of vocabulary, sorry I just don't buy it. Leaving her dead and cold in the basement like that and pretending not to know where she is when the cops came, that's crazy.

Even the phone call makes sense when you accept the intruder theory. Patsy saying "what did you do?" "Help me Jesus" implies her not knowing anything! Why would she say that off the record when she knew nobody was listening to her, if she knew her daughter was dead in the basement she wouldn't have uttered those words. When they woke up in the morning they may have taught Burke did something to her that's why even John said "we're not speaking to you" but Burke was innocent, it was just a false assumption by them. No, these parents would have died for their children, they loved them too much, they had too much invested in them! You can just tell.

Not sure if anyone responded to you yet. Still working through the thread after a day off. haha Anyway!
Firstly just know I'm not personally attacking you and your belief, in fact I respect it!
So here's my take on the intruder theory. I DO think the family members could have easily committed this crime. Parent's kill their children all the time on horrendous ways. Parents can and do sexually abuse their kids. Siblings, even young ones kill the other. What makes the Ramsey's so special that they couldn't or shouldn't be under the umbrella of suspicion? Because they are wealthy Christians? Money does not make a person good or bad. Being a Christian doesn't clear you of doubt. An innocent family would have cooperated fully with the law enforcement. Also let me add that Patsy lived through JonBenet. She was heartbroken that her son had potentially killed her.
First of all there were only patches of snow on ground that day. An intruder wouldn't have had to of walked carefully.
The window that was open and broken, John admitted he broke that window months earlier, when he forgot his house key.
The scuff on the wall was more than likely from JR climbing through window months earlier (or at least not ruled out as a possibility)
The window in question does not open completely. It is also not a tall or wide window. Even when Lou Smit reenacted climbing through,
his hips filled the window completely. With that said, there was an old cobweb covering the corner of the window in the original crime scene video. There is no logical way anyone could climb through that window and not disturb the cobweb. It wasn't a new new web either. There was dust and old debris within the
cobweb.
The disturbance of the debris in the window well could easily have been from John climbing through the window months earlier.
There was no debris noted below the basement window. The boot print could have been from Burke, as he admitted the one found near her body was
probably his due to the kids always playing down there.
Patsy also stated that after John broke window, her and the housekeeper Linda Hoffman Pugh vacuumed under that window extremely well so the kids didn't get
into the glass. So if there had been an intruder, there would have been debris knocked into the basement below the window. An intruder wouldn't have even worried about cleaning it up.
The intruder would have had to have been moving all over the house that night for most of the night to get everything done. He had to find a pen and paper at the home and after writing 2 practice letters and throwing in trash, wrote a 2 1/2 page ransom note (The longest kidnapping letter on record) with 76% of the note being unnecessary per an analyst and expert. Also, the writer was noted to have a high level of writing (Patsy studied journalism in college). The writer was also
estimated to be over 30+. Also had many maternal aspects in note that pointed towards a female. The note was overly dramatic even using several lines from
famous movies. There was never a small foreign faction. If there was, it would be the dumbest organisation ever. They not only killed their kidnapped victim before they got out of house, they left the ransom note. Even the amount asked for was questionable. So since JR was so rich, why did they only ask for $118,000? And why that exact amount? That was also how much John made in his bonus recently. So insider knowledge would be needed. Plus no one ever called.
Also, Burke received a swiss army knife as a gift from his parents. He was known to widdle wood often. (possibly even the garrote?) He always made a mess and left wood shavings on the floor. The housekeeper finally had to confiscate the knife and she hid it very good in a closet. Again, insider knowledge.
The potential murder weapon, the maglight flashlight is sturdy and heavy. Very little strength would be needed to crack a 6 yr old's skull. The flashlight fits the wound perfectly. There was a maglite flashlight found in the kitchen on the counter. It was completely clean of prints on the outside and even the batteries
were wiped down. A intruder wouldn't do this. In the Dr. Phil interview Burke admitted to being downstairs that night after everyone was in bed. He never went into detail of what toy he wanted to play with nor how long he was down there. But, he would've more than likely seen the attack. Until Dr. Phil interview, it was never told that Burke went back downstairs that night.
Strangling her with the noose would not require great strength if the perp was sitting on her back. She was strangled from behind. The fingernail marks around the cord could have been from Burke trying to get the garrote off after he possibly committed the crime (IMHO). The sexual assault has been explained by experts that it wasn't a true sexual assault. It was part of staging.
The garrote itself could have been easily made by Burke or John. Burke was in boy scouts an knot tying is learned. Also John owned boats and a yacht. Again, knot tying required. The garrote could have been made at a different time for a different reason but it was available so it was used. An intruder would also not
feed JonBenet pineapple with milk mixed in and a glass of tea.
Kidnappers usually snatch and grab. They don't want to risk being caught.
The quotes heard after Patsy thought she disconnected from the police actually prove to me more that they all were involved at some point.
When Patsy said "What did you do? Help me Jesus" she was possibly referring to Burke's attack on JonBenet. To save her only last living child she had to protect him and in the process completely disrespect JBR's body to cover up the scene. I'm sure she was also telling Burke to keep his mouth shut and say he was asleep through it all or he would go to jail. (I know he couldn't have by law but Burke didn't know he couldn't and neither did Patsy and John I'm sure.)
John saying- We're not talking to you" tells me that he was livid over Burke's crime and didn't even want to look at him. If he DID do it, I wouldn't want to look at
my daughter's killer either.
When Burke said "What DID you find?" I think that was his way of getting a thrill out of seeing his parent's in pain. Just like a true psychopath would do. They often revisit their crime scenes during the investigation just to watch the turmoil and suffering. They get a sick pleasure out of it. Burke also had a fascination with
feces. He would smear it on walls and on JonBenet's things. Once the housekeeper found a grapefruit sized ball of human feces on her bed. He also smeared it on her box of christmas chocolates she received that year. He was known to have a horrible temper.
Just MOO but thought I would reply!
ETA: extra content.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Do you mean when PR met with the GJ or LP? IIRC, PR and JR were never called to testify before the GJ. I could be wrong, but thought I read that in Thomas's or Kolar's book. Not sure at all if LP was called, so just trying to clarify who you meant. Thanks!

I meant the housekeeper


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[PositiveLight]

Well no wonder Hunter chose not to prosecute. Charging the parents of the victim for staging a crime scene to protect their son who is not old enough to be held legally responsible. That would be an uphill battle for sure.

Most definitely. They would have walked regardless. I don't think JonBenet will ever receive justice.

 

[mauidreemn]

Most definitely. They would have walked regardless. I don't think JonBenet will ever receive justice.

What would be justice for Jonbenet?

 

[MissUnderstood]

Burke never panicked over anything in his life. IMO - he's not capable - just like he's not capable of empathy.


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I meant the parents hit panic mode, probably didn't word that to well


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