Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

Also as for the Karrakatta victim surviving I personally don't think this was due to her not seeing or hearing the rapist due to concealing himself but rather either of 2 theories, one being he had simply not progressed from sexual assault to murder at that stage or secondly he was pretty sure she would die and not finishing her off was as an error (I believe this because I recall reading she was "left for dead")

The first option is much more likely for a number of reasons;

1. The words "left for dead" don't necessarily take on a literal meaning. I had a mate once who vomited in my car. I pulled over, dragged him out and left him for dead. No other adjectives related to not sexual injuries were used in media reports such as brutal, horrific, near-fatal etc
2. Even though we haven't really been told anything about her injuries, if they were critical (as in he intended to kill her) then this would have made the case higher profile and it would have been reported in the media.
3. There's a strong chance the CSK victims had their throats slashed. I'm reasonably sure the victim didn't have her throat slashed.

I think he realised if he kept on raping and letting the victims live he would get caught (DNA). Another option is he wanted to show his face and if he did this he'd need to step up to murder.

 

[CSK?]

"3. There's a strong chance the CSK victims had their throats slashed. I'm reasonably sure the victim didn't have her throat slashed."

You're also not sure why the others had their throats slashed either, it is possible however unlikely as it may seem that her survival is why he moved from lets say strangulation to throat slitting to ensure others would not survive (I'm not saying he changed killing techniques and am using this purely as an example.) No one but the CSK knows what entirely went on once he had abducted her (unless the victim remained 100% conscious throughout the ordeal then she would know also).

we don't know that he may have choked her out thinking she was dead and moved on, or maybe his identity was concealed and he let her go as others have suggested or that at this stage murder was just not part of his pattern. I was only giving that point of view as a second option as a theory, I personally believe the CSK had just not progressed to murder at that stage.

At the end of the day though there is no evidence other than a phrase to suggest she was literally left for dead and hanging on for her life but in the same nit picking you use to scrutinize opinions there is nothing to suggest throats were slashed other than a comment about bugs in a neck wound, strangulation with wire (or even rope) a garrote, a stab wound could cause lacerations to the neck which would be sufficient enough for flesh eating bugs to 'nest or feast' in. You did exactly what I did for the left for dead comment and have turned a single comment into a theory of your own. I don't dispute throats could have been cut but to me this just seems an awfully messy way of murdering someone considering the CSK leaves very little evidence of his crimes after the murder and transportation of a body.

 

[Bartholemeus]

At the end of the day though there is no evidence other than a phrase to suggest she was literally left for dead and hanging on for her life but in the same nit picking you use to scrutinize opinions there is nothing to suggest throats were slashed other than a comment about bugs in a neck wound,

Incorrect. I have other evidence and I'm not willing to divulge my source. So it's a fair bit more than one line out of SMs book. I perfectly understand that you aren't willing to take this at face value but I do ask you to ask yourself just two questions;

1. I've been quite vocal as well as fastidious about separating fact from theory and refusing to take things as fact until I'm 109% on it. Why would I all of a sudden divert from this?

2. If I did decide to slip in a lie, why this one? Surely I'd make something up that ba is my theory? This does nothing to back any of my theories.

 

[Bartholemeus]

It's really unlikely Karra Man went to the effort to bind and blindfold the victim as to not reveal his description and then intend to murder the victim. It's highly likely he always intended to release the victim alive. Assuming he's the CSK, then he most likely would have made a conscious decision to then kill the girls.

 

[BenJones84]

 

[88mph]

If SS is asking this trajectory, is start looking near telecommunications infrastructure.

Interesting connection with the street name.

 

[BenJones84]

Where is there telecommunications infrastructure near Pipidinny Rd?

 

[Parkie]

My line skims the top of that lake & through the Military Rd Bridge & across the Roe Hgy.

 

[Parkie]

Someone remind me mid week to get onto Plod about the guy from Bellevue who came into $10,000 & disappeared. Ta.

 

[88mph]

Where is there telecommunications infrastructure near Pipidinny Rd?

I'm not sure exactly but it was reported that Telstra workers could smell what they thought was a dead roo. Ended up being GC. So they were working nearby.

A Telstra worker would have links to mapping tools to create the 180 arc, Holden commodores and the van full of tools used to abduct Karrakatta.

Furthermore, what if the cabke used to tie Karrakatta was in fact phone cable as originally stated.

 

[Peter Kurten]

I'm not sure exactly but it was reported that Telstra workers could smell what they thought was a dead roo. Ended up being GC. So they were working nearby.

A Telstra worker would have links to mapping tools to create the 180 arc, Holden commodores and the van full of tools used to abduct Karrakatta.

Furthermore, what if the cabke used to tie Karrakatta was in fact phone cable as originally stated.

If you follow that telegraph pole north, it eventually meets at a Telstra owned building towards Yanchep. There is also Telstra owned communcation infrastructure underground which tracks the overhead line.

I believe the line used to restrain the victim was a "hollow plastic rope", consistent with one of those roll out washing lines common in the 1990's. I've been told however, that this rope was not indeed yellow.

 

[CSK?]

That makes for a very interesting lead, could be nothing but with the positioning of CG and JR inline with that cross through and the recent sexual assault involving lilies, it does get the mind wondering just a tad, very nice find!!

 

[BenJones84]

I believe the line used to restrain the victim was a "hollow plastic rope", consistent with one of those roll out washing lines common in the 1990's.

... so pre-cut lengths of clothes line.. just like the Zodiac used?

<modsnip>

 

[Sutton]

Well I'll agree to disagree with you on that one.!

sadism
/&#712;se&#618;d&#618;z(&#601m/
noun
noun: sadism
the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.

I appreciate agreeing to disagree. It keeps good posters around.

...@Sutton
I am basing the idea that the CSK is a sadist based on peer-reviewed research into serial crime:

Mouzos and West 2007, 'An examination of serial murder in Australia', Australian Institute of Criminology, no. 346
CSK is likely an organised, dedicated (that is apart from possibly rape/sexual assault and murder, doesn't habitually commit crime), power/control, sadist type killer.

I suppose you're both right--most serial killers enjoy killing and causing pain, and are therefore sadists. There are many conflicting typologies and ever changing definitions.

The real sadists--David Parker Ray, Bittaker and Norris, Lake and Ng, are on completely different levels than the CSK. He's still a monster, but I don't know of any indications that he is a sexual sadist. IMO, he was motivated by the desire for power and control.

 

[Sutton]

I'm not saying that the CSK is or is not a sadist as there is not enough evidence to support either opinion but In regards to him not talking much during the Karrakatta rape, this isn't a sign of not being a sadist, a lot of serial killers start out with simple rape, then rape and murder and then sadism slowly comes into play as they are no longer getting the same thrill as once derived from the act of murder, it is like a natural progression towards sadism for the purpose of gratification. of course this doesn't apply to all killers, some are happy just killing, others are sadists from the get go, but in regards to the CSK any speculation that he is or is not a sadist based from what we know is nothing but a matter of personal opinion.

Agreed about the talking aspect. It doesn't always mean someone is or isn't a sadistic.

Re-the rape at Karrakatta
Obviously the perpetrator was confident his victim hadn't seen his face. Hadn't heard his voice...or seen his vehicle
That's probably what saved her IMO.

...Also as for the Karrakatta victim surviving I personally don't think this was due to her not seeing or hearing the rapist due to concealing himself but rather either of 2 theories, one being he had simply not progressed from sexual assault to murder at that stage or secondly he was pretty sure she would die and not finishing her off was as an error (I believe this because I recall reading she was "left for dead")

Yes, all three of these theories are possible. I've also wondered if maybe Karrakatta was very compliant and did not fight back or resist in any way. Jane and Ciara were both described as feisty and several articles said they would fight back. Maybe this caused the CSK to escalate in violence.

This doesn't explain Sarah, though. I've mostly seen her described as affectionate and friendly, so I don't know how she'd react. Anyways, just another possibility of why Karrakatta survived.

 

[Sutton]

This is a profile from the FBI about a serial rapist (turned out to be Paul Bernardo, but I don't think Karla Homolka was involved in these rapes). It's an easy read and I think the CSK had a similar approach.

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/bernardo_fbiprofile.html

 

[Bartholemeus]

I believe the line used to restrain the victim was a "hollow plastic rope", consistent with one of those roll out washing lines common in the 1990's. I've been told however, that this rope was not indeed yellow.

Question;

Why did Karra Man choose this? (at this point I will stop short of calling him the CSK)

Is it as simple as that's what was available? Clearly the attack was well planned which suggests he opted for this over other options such as rope, cable ties, duct tape? To me it's an odd choice. Anyone want to hazard a guess why?

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Question;

Why did Karra Man choose this? (at this point I will stop short of calling him the CSK)

Is it as simple as that's what was available? Clearly the attack was well planned which suggests he opted for this over other options such as rope, cable ties, duct tape? To me it's an odd choice. Anyone want to hazard a guess why?

It was commonly used to tie down light tarps. Maybe it was there, in his vehicle. (My harzardous guess)

 

[88mph]

This is a profile from the FBI about a serial rapist (turned out to be Paul Bernardo, but I don't think Karla Homolka was involved in these rapes). It's an easy read and I think the CSK had a similar approach.

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/bernardo_fbiprofile.html

Great link. All theoretical of course but you can see since huge similarities there for sure.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Question;

Why did Karra Man choose this? (at this point I will stop short of calling him the CSK)

Is it as simple as that's what was available? Clearly the attack was well planned which suggests he opted for this over other options such as rope, cable ties, duct tape? To me it's an odd choice. Anyone want to hazard a guess why?

I'm going to broaden the scope here and give a more general guess.
A lot of the science on this type of activity suggests that elements of the crime chosen are based on aspects that are already relatively comfortable to the killer and which he finds himself competent in.
If I had to guess I&#8217;d say it was a type of rope that he was skilled in using to temporarily tie long items together, perhaps heavy conduit, to haul around the place. I think he chose that type of material because he used it every day and was able to quickly tie simple and strong knots with it. How the &#8220;Screen printing material&#8221; got on there I&#8217;d love to know.
Remember that the general consensus at the time was that it was a &#8220;commercial vehicle&#8221;. Apparently these words were used by the victim herself. IF she was blindfolded or bagged the whole time, It would have had to have been the sounds while the vehicle was on motion, or the feeling of materials underneath her, that would have given it away.
What trades back then used light coloured panel vans? If you have a good idea about this please chime in.