Burke Files 150 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against Werner Sptiz???

[fedfan4life]

I believed that, too. I once said, "they were so close, it seemed like nothing could break them up." I'm wondering if I need to wash the shoe polish out of my mouth.

That's an understandable assumption. It's the way it should be, after all.

 

[BBB167893]

Well for a start you've not acknowledged my answer about the direction of force and the long fracture. And secondly, the depression caused by the maglite hitting the dummy skull was a different shape to that seen in the autopsy pictures of JonBenet's skull cap.

That one's pretty weak, Tortoise. You could hit a thousand skulls before you got one to break exactly like JonBenet's, if you got that at all.

 

[BBB167893]

That's an understandable assumption. It's the way it should be, after all.

That's the truth, fedfan4life. I've often been accused of being a bleeding heart because of beliefs like that. Well, we should be able to have SOME ideals.

 

[PositiveLight]

Agreed. At least he got to live his out, didn't he?

Exactly! Something his sister didn't get a chance at.

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[Tortoise]

What exactly does the shape of the wound have to do with whether Dr. Spitz postulated his theory with malice aforethought?

Dexter sounds like some of sock puppets I used to fight 19 years ago when justice was denied. There was no malice in Spitz. This is a deflection.

I think there is confusion here about the term malice.

Actual malice in defamation/libel (knowledge that the information was false or that it was published with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not) is different from common law malice (which indicates spite or ill-will).

 

[Tortoise]

That one's pretty weak, Tortoise. You could hit a thousand skulls before you got one to break exactly like JonBenet's, if you got that at all.

If that was true, Spitz wouldn't have got his child actor to perform a test on the dummy skull with the flashlight. He could have got through thousands of skulls, can you imagine the inconvenience of that, and time that would have taken to shoot? Cut! Take 984!

There are features of the real skull depression that can't be reproduced by the head of the flashlight. You can see that by comparing his diagrams and test results (a roughly straight edged impression) with the autopsy pictures (curves). This means the object used was cylindrical, not square topped, and not hit from the side.

 

[johnjay]

If that was true, Spitz wouldn't have got his child actor to perform a test on the dummy skull with the flashlight. He could have got through thousands of skulls, can you imagine the inconvenience of that, and time that would have taken to shoot? Cut! Take 984!

There are features of the real skull depression that can't be reproduced by the head of the flashlight. You can see that by comparing his diagrams and test results (a roughly straight edged impression) with the autopsy pictures (curves). This means the object used was cylindrical, not square topped, and not hit from the side.

Thinking about this some more it seems pretty obvious to me why a blow from the side with that flashlight would tend to create the long crack that occurred in that skull. The edge of the flashlight as it was arcing downward presented an edge, it was like a hatchet hitting her skull, and the edge pointed in the direction from the back of her head to the front. Once the crack was started it continued on the defect line as the flashlight continued crushing through her skull.

It's amazing watching the boy in the CBS show inflict this injury, the incredible violence of that act.

 

[Ambitioned]

http://www.westword.com/news/burke-ramsey-lawsuit-jonbenet-family-lawyer-rips-cbs-docuseries-and-more-8390450

As we know, a grand jury was ready to indict John Ramsey at one point.

Be careful when you talk about what the grand jury was ready to do. I've seen the recommendation of the grand jury, and it certainly didn't involve Burke Ramsey — it talked about assisting someone in the first-degree charge of murder. That wouldn't apply to Burke.

Be careful?? :facepalm:

 

[Ambitioned]

It's amazing watching the boy in the CBS show inflict this injury, the incredible violence of that act.

I know, props to the boy for agreeing to it in the interests of solving the case. I wouldn't have been able to do it.

 

[just the facts pls]

I feel like a broken record, but a few things worth keeping in mind:

Nobody was there when JBR was attacked, and nobody knows how hard, fast, or what trajectory JBR's head wound was inflicted with. Human skulls also have sutures and weak spots, and we have no idea if JBR had other prior head wounds other than the golf club under her eye.

I don't think the demonstration was to create an exact reenactment since that would be impossible. I think the point of the demonstration was to show audiences that yes, it is possible for a little boy to crack the skull of a young child in a similar manner resulting in a similar head wound.

The team of experts probably knew that if they were to present the BDI theory, that viewers would have to see it for themselves. IMO

 

[UKGuy]

I believed that, too. I once said, "they were so close, it seemed like nothing could break them up." I'm wondering if I need to wash the shoe polish out of my mouth.

SuperDave.
BBM: Nope. Just call a spade a spade, when you see one and apply occam assiduously.



.

 

[PositiveLight]

I feel like a broken record, but a few things worth keeping in mind:

Nobody was there when JBR was attacked, and nobody knows how hard, fast, or what trajectory JBR's head wound was inflicted with. Human skulls also have sutures and weak spots, and we have no idea if JBR had other prior head wounds other than the golf club under her eye.

I don't think the demonstration was to create an exact reenactment since that would be impossible. I think the point of the demonstration was to show audiences that yes, it is possible for a little boy to crack the skull of a young child in a similar manner resulting in a similar head wound.

The team of experts probably knew that if they were to present the BDI theory, that viewers would have to see it for themselves. IMO

Agreed! I think the missing two hours was dedicated to the strangulation part and the abuse part. Those are the two points I'd keep under my hat if I was threatened with a law suit. I think that's why it seemed they breezed over those two subjects in the documentary. I actually think they may have went into much more detail in the original 6 hours. Those are two things that 1.) Caused her actual death (even though the head wound would have eventually killed her) 2.) Shows there was long term abuse occurring in the home.

I feel the grand jury was possibly leaning towards Burke and they felt it was intentional and possibly planned ahead. That he had been brewing all day and witnesses more than likely divulged that in the grand jury testimony. OR they felt one of the parents finished her off with intent. If they were doing it to protect BR, then there was forethought. They could have called 911 but didn't. There was nothing ordinary with this family imho. Everything was over the top. Even JonBenets murder. It's hard to fathom what these people possibly did because we wouldn't make the same decisions they did. We may have handled it completely different. Plus they went into overdrive covering up. Had they just called 911, none of this would have to be discussed. It would have been considered an accident and we the public may have never known what actually occurred. It would have been labeled a fall or something. JMOO

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[Tortoise]

Thinking about this some more it seems pretty obvious to me why a blow from the side with that flashlight would tend to create the long crack that occurred in that skull. The edge of the flashlight as it was arcing downward presented an edge, it was like a hatchet hitting her skull, and the edge pointed in the direction from the back of her head to the front. Once the crack was started it continued on the defect line as the flashlight continued crushing through her skull.

It's amazing watching the boy in the CBS show inflict this injury, the incredible violence of that act.

That doesn't appear to address my post, which was about the outline shape of the displaced section of skull and the implement that would cause that.

However, you do seem to be agreeing with one of my earlier posts, in as much as you postulate that the 8.5 inch skull fracture was caused by a force directed more from the rear aspect of her head, and not the result of a square-on sideways blow.

It's interesting that there was an 8 inch long by 1.75 inch wide linear purple contusion on her brain, directly underlying the linear skull fracture, and I've also read in older threads here (too many now to remember which ones unfortunately) about a contrecoup brain injury, caused by her brain being shunted forwards and backwards. I'd be very surprised with my admittedly limited layman's knowledge and expectations, if the direction of the blow was sideways on, as demonstrated.

 

[johnjay]

That doesn't appear to address my post, which was about the outline shape of the displaced section of skull and the implement that would cause that.

That's your opinion but many of us feel it is remarkably close to the same shape, and as close as one would reasonable expect given all the variables involved. Trying hit a golf ball and then put down another one and hit it the exact same way and you'll see what I'm getting at. Or split a piece of wood and then split another one exactly the same way. Or drop a glass on the floor and then drop another one and see if the pieces are exactly the same. A few experiments like that should help clear this up for you.

However, you do seem to be agreeing with one of my earlier posts, in as much as you postulate that the 8.5 inch skull fracture was caused by a force directed more from the rear aspect of her head, and not the result of a square-on sideways blow.

No no, I'm saying it seems perfectly reasonable to expect a blow from the side with that flashlight to cause a fracture from front to back. That's because the tip of the flashlight presented itself as an edge as it first struck the head, and that edge is perpendicular to the direction of motion of the flashlight. Of course the grain of the skull, as well as weaker points in it, would also contribute to exactly how the fracture occurred.

But I see no reason to think that the blow had to come from behind or in front, and you haven't provided us with one.

 

[treeseeker]

Tortoise for some reason I can't use reply. I'm not sold on BDI, but - do you think the head blow could have been caused by a golf club? If B was using a club to reach the wooden latch at the top of the door, and he swung it around and hit JB, who was perhaps facing opposite him, could he have hit with enough force to cause the injury?

 

[akh]

p. Had they just called 911, none of this would have to be discussed. It would have been considered an accident and we the public may have never known what actually occurred. It would have been labeled a fall or something. JMOO

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Not if the strangulation was BR as well...

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise for some reason I can't use reply. I'm not sold on BDI, but - do you think the head blow could have been caused by a golf club? If B was using a club to reach the wooden latch at the top of the door, and he swung it around and hit JB, who was perhaps facing opposite him, could he have hit with enough force to cause the injury?

Hiya. I do think it was more likely to be the heel of a golf club or a fire poker, or something long, heavy and narrow. I also sometimes contemplate it being something like JonBenet standing up suddenly or being flung hard and at speed, and hitting her head against an object like her bed post, but I find that harder to explain with the shape of the displaced piece of skull. So I think I'm more inclined towards her being hit.

 

[johnjay]

Not if the strangulation was BR as well...

I wonder what would have happened if they just called 911 and reported something like: our daughter was sexually abused and strangled in our basement.

 

[PositiveLight]

Not if the strangulation was BR as well...

Well my personal opinion is he did both intentionally but I'm not ruling out other options. I think mama and daddy covered for him and staged the scene though. JMOO

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[PositiveLight]

I wonder what would have happened if they just called 911 and reported something like: our daughter was sexually abused and strangled in our basement.

Me too. I doubt it would have made it past local papers and BR would have received treatment quietly.

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