Separating FACT from fiction
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WhoKnowsWhat
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Acandyrose.com. Then Jonbenet Ramsey.
Then scroll down to Flight 1755 15th Street and there is much information including the autopsy reporting the left side of the page in the first column. Lots of reading for you.
Then scroll down to Flight 1755 15th Street and there is much information including the autopsy reporting the left side of the page in the first column. Lots of reading for you.
invaderzim
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FACT OR NOT FACT: 10am came and went and the Ramsey's did not panic or even question why the ransom call did not come - according to Linda Arndt.
I believe there were other detectives present for the purpose of monitoring the awaited call? Did anyone else, either another police officer/detective or any of the Ramsey friends that were there ever comment on the Ramsey's reaction or lack of it? To me this is crucial. Impossible to believe they thought that call was coming and did not have a severe emotional reaction when it didn't? Of course, they would have had to be pretty stupid to not at least ACT like they were in a panic if they knew the note was staged also? But in any case, can we take this (Arndt's) testimony as FACT?
I believe there were other detectives present for the purpose of monitoring the awaited call? Did anyone else, either another police officer/detective or any of the Ramsey friends that were there ever comment on the Ramsey's reaction or lack of it? To me this is crucial. Impossible to believe they thought that call was coming and did not have a severe emotional reaction when it didn't? Of course, they would have had to be pretty stupid to not at least ACT like they were in a panic if they knew the note was staged also? But in any case, can we take this (Arndt's) testimony as FACT?
kanzz
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In FF, Kolar states, "...the passage of this time came and went, without any observed comment from Ramsey. It wasn't long after this that Arndt lost track of his movements. She reported that she first made note of his absence at around 1040 hours, and he didn't reappear until noon. Nearly 1 1/2 years would pass before John Ramsey explained this absence."
invaderzim
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Thanks. When he says "without any observed comment from Ramsey", is he alluding to anyone else except Arndt that observed that?
kanzz
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Not to my knowledge. But I suppose that others who were there might have said something about it to investigators or the GJ later. That I don't know without researching further, however.
kanzz
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We've come a long way from when this thread was started nearly 10 years ago. I've spent the better part of the afternoon re-reading all of it and assembling a new list of facts as I know them. It's not all-inclusive, of course. But it's as much as I could do for today. (I'd also like to post this to a google doc so it can be a living document, but I'm not sure if my identity would show and I'm not willing to expose that. So unless/until I can clarify, I'll wait.)
If I have something wrong here - please let me know.
FACTS:
Jonbenet, Patsy (PR), John (JR), and Burke (BR) allege that they were all in the house from approximately 10:00 pm on 12/25/96 until the following morning, when police were called.
PR and JR reported to Bolder Police Department (BPD) officers the following morning that they had each checked that night and the house was locked.
Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 0552 on 12/25/96, claiming she discovered her daughter gone and there was a ransom note.
Boulder police arrived at 0556, and after a cursory search outside the house, found no force entry or footprints on the ground in the frost.
On their arrival at the home, LE noted that PR was fully dressed and had "hair and make-up neatly done"
http://www.experthandwritinganalysis.com/2013/07/19/unmasking-the-ramsey-ransom-note/
The FBI reported they had never seen a 2.5 page ransom note before.
The pad on which the RN was written belonged to PR as did the writing instrument with which the note was written.
Two couples who were close friends were called by PR after the 911 call to come to the house that morning, as was The Rev. Rol Haverstock and Dr. Beuf (JB's pediatrician).
BR was taken from his bedroom to a friend's house at approximately 0700.
The call from the kidnappers never came. The time for the kidnappers to call came and went without any observed comment from Ramsey.
JR, after being asked by Det. Arndt to search the house for anything that might be out of place, found the body of JB in the basement, carried her upstairs, and put her on the floor just outside the basement door as instructed by Det. Arndt.
The body had been in a room the Ramsey's called the wine room, on a blanket and wrapped in another blanket. Her favorite Barbie nightie was nearby.
Her clothing was soiled with urine on the anterior (front) side and there was urine found outside the wine room on the carpet.
JR was heard by one of the LEOs making a call for arrangements to leave Boulder to go to Atlanta. He stated he had an important meeting to attend, but the family had already made prior plans to go to Charlevoix that day.
A few hours later, the Ramseys were asked by LE to leave the house. They stayed with friends for a few days until they ended up staying with the Stine family for several months before finally leaving for Atlanta.
The cause of death was attributed to asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma (skull fracture, subaracnoid hemorrhage, and subdural hemorrhage).
It is worth noting that the craniocerebral trauma was not discovered by the ME until the scalp was reflected.
Because there was bleeding caused by the craniocerebral trauma, it follows that this preceded the strangulation.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf
PR's sister, Pam Paugh, was allowed to enter the Ramsey's active crime scene home to collect items for JR and PR. Pam was allowed to wear a police jacket for the purpose of not attracting attention.
JR and PR initiated an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live" the day after JB's funeral to claim their innocence. "We did not kill JonBenet."
Fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape from JB's mouth matched fibers from PR's jacket. It was called "identical".
The stick which had the cord from around JB's neck wrapped around it was a broken artist's paintbrush that came from a set found in the house in a tray belonging to PR.
A perfect impression of JB's lips was found on the sticky side of the tape that had been over her mouth.
Dried mucous from her nose had been smeared down the right lip and cheek, with marks from the straight edge of the duct tape that had been placed over her mouth visible.
The cord looped around JB's wrist was so loosely tied that the Medical Examiner could get two fingers between the loop and JB's skin.
The cord around her wrists matched the cord around her neck.
The cord around her neck that was wrapped around the paintbrush or handle end of the ligature was melted as is customary in manufacturing.
All other ends of the cord were frayed and appeared to have been cut with a sharp instrument.
PR bought an item at McGuckin's Hardware on Dec 2, 1996, for $2.29 according to charge card receipts, which is the same price as that of nylon cord similar to that used to bind and strangle Jon Benet. The receipt does not provide a description of the item, but it is from the same part of the store where the nylon cord can be found.
In her statement to Police in April, PR stated that she had only read a few lines of the "ransom note" when she ran back upstairs to check on JB in her room. However, during her 911 call she was able to tell the dispatcher that the note ended with the initials "SBTC" and "Victory".
Of all the handwriting samples taken by BPD, the only person who could not be excluded as the author of the RN was that of Patsy Ramsey.
Vassar professor and linguistic expert Don Foster stated, regarding PR, "I am absolutely certain she wrote the note." (100% certainty).
A Grand Jury was convened. The siblings of JB - BR, John Andrew, Melinda - and many friends and case players were called to testify. John and Patsy were never called.
When the GJ was discharged on 10/13/99, DA Alex Hunter announced, "We do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time."
It wasn't until October, 2013 that the truth came out when parts of the true bills were released:
PR and JR were indicted identically by the Grand Jury in 1999 for (paraphrased) reckless endangerment of a child and accessory after the fact.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/10/us/jonbenet-ramsey-documents/?hpt=hp_t1
BR was 9 years old. According to Colorado law, an infant. He could not be charged for the crime of murder.
I think this is subject to interpretation: Anything about prior sexual abuse.
The word of Dr. Beuf is questionable at best. He said he examined Jonbenet (JB) vaginally, but his his words are self-contradictory and actually say he did not.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-12-days-of-JonBenet&p=12869866#post12869866
Touch DNA (tDNA) is fairly useless in criminal investigation. It can allow the innocent to be convicted, which is enough for me to call it Junk Science. Some states do not even allow as evidence in criminal cases.
References:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/10/touch-dna-might-be-contaminating-crime-scene-evidence
If I have something wrong here - please let me know.
FACTS:
Jonbenet, Patsy (PR), John (JR), and Burke (BR) allege that they were all in the house from approximately 10:00 pm on 12/25/96 until the following morning, when police were called.
PR and JR reported to Bolder Police Department (BPD) officers the following morning that they had each checked that night and the house was locked.
Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 0552 on 12/25/96, claiming she discovered her daughter gone and there was a ransom note.
Boulder police arrived at 0556, and after a cursory search outside the house, found no force entry or footprints on the ground in the frost.
On their arrival at the home, LE noted that PR was fully dressed and had "hair and make-up neatly done"
http://www.experthandwritinganalysis.com/2013/07/19/unmasking-the-ramsey-ransom-note/
The FBI reported they had never seen a 2.5 page ransom note before.
The pad on which the RN was written belonged to PR as did the writing instrument with which the note was written.
Two couples who were close friends were called by PR after the 911 call to come to the house that morning, as was The Rev. Rol Haverstock and Dr. Beuf (JB's pediatrician).
BR was taken from his bedroom to a friend's house at approximately 0700.
The call from the kidnappers never came. The time for the kidnappers to call came and went without any observed comment from Ramsey.
JR, after being asked by Det. Arndt to search the house for anything that might be out of place, found the body of JB in the basement, carried her upstairs, and put her on the floor just outside the basement door as instructed by Det. Arndt.
The body had been in a room the Ramsey's called the wine room, on a blanket and wrapped in another blanket. Her favorite Barbie nightie was nearby.
Her clothing was soiled with urine on the anterior (front) side and there was urine found outside the wine room on the carpet.
JR was heard by one of the LEOs making a call for arrangements to leave Boulder to go to Atlanta. He stated he had an important meeting to attend, but the family had already made prior plans to go to Charlevoix that day.
A few hours later, the Ramseys were asked by LE to leave the house. They stayed with friends for a few days until they ended up staying with the Stine family for several months before finally leaving for Atlanta.
The cause of death was attributed to asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma (skull fracture, subaracnoid hemorrhage, and subdural hemorrhage).
It is worth noting that the craniocerebral trauma was not discovered by the ME until the scalp was reflected.
Because there was bleeding caused by the craniocerebral trauma, it follows that this preceded the strangulation.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf
PR's sister, Pam Paugh, was allowed to enter the Ramsey's active crime scene home to collect items for JR and PR. Pam was allowed to wear a police jacket for the purpose of not attracting attention.
JR and PR initiated an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live" the day after JB's funeral to claim their innocence. "We did not kill JonBenet."
Fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape from JB's mouth matched fibers from PR's jacket. It was called "identical".
The stick which had the cord from around JB's neck wrapped around it was a broken artist's paintbrush that came from a set found in the house in a tray belonging to PR.
A perfect impression of JB's lips was found on the sticky side of the tape that had been over her mouth.
Dried mucous from her nose had been smeared down the right lip and cheek, with marks from the straight edge of the duct tape that had been placed over her mouth visible.
The cord looped around JB's wrist was so loosely tied that the Medical Examiner could get two fingers between the loop and JB's skin.
The cord around her wrists matched the cord around her neck.
The cord around her neck that was wrapped around the paintbrush or handle end of the ligature was melted as is customary in manufacturing.
All other ends of the cord were frayed and appeared to have been cut with a sharp instrument.
PR bought an item at McGuckin's Hardware on Dec 2, 1996, for $2.29 according to charge card receipts, which is the same price as that of nylon cord similar to that used to bind and strangle Jon Benet. The receipt does not provide a description of the item, but it is from the same part of the store where the nylon cord can be found.
In her statement to Police in April, PR stated that she had only read a few lines of the "ransom note" when she ran back upstairs to check on JB in her room. However, during her 911 call she was able to tell the dispatcher that the note ended with the initials "SBTC" and "Victory".
Of all the handwriting samples taken by BPD, the only person who could not be excluded as the author of the RN was that of Patsy Ramsey.
Vassar professor and linguistic expert Don Foster stated, regarding PR, "I am absolutely certain she wrote the note." (100% certainty).
A Grand Jury was convened. The siblings of JB - BR, John Andrew, Melinda - and many friends and case players were called to testify. John and Patsy were never called.
When the GJ was discharged on 10/13/99, DA Alex Hunter announced, "We do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time."
It wasn't until October, 2013 that the truth came out when parts of the true bills were released:
PR and JR were indicted identically by the Grand Jury in 1999 for (paraphrased) reckless endangerment of a child and accessory after the fact.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/10/us/jonbenet-ramsey-documents/?hpt=hp_t1
BR was 9 years old. According to Colorado law, an infant. He could not be charged for the crime of murder.
I think this is subject to interpretation: Anything about prior sexual abuse.
The word of Dr. Beuf is questionable at best. He said he examined Jonbenet (JB) vaginally, but his his words are self-contradictory and actually say he did not.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-12-days-of-JonBenet&p=12869866#post12869866
Touch DNA (tDNA) is fairly useless in criminal investigation. It can allow the innocent to be convicted, which is enough for me to call it Junk Science. Some states do not even allow as evidence in criminal cases.
References:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151028133944.htm
http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2015/10/touch-dna-might-be-contaminating-crime-scene-evidence
bethanna2004
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I read this entire thread.........IMO, I do not feel there was any intruder, but wish I was wrong. It makes me sick. For a long time, I thought it plausible that someone came in through that basement window, but after reading this and other threads and books and other things on the internet, it is very far fetched. The initial investigation was botched, yet there were thousands of hours of investigations that ruled others out. I know others will not share my sentiments, but I feel bad for Linda Arndt. She did not handle things properly, but she was trying to be a compassionate human being and I also heard she was not given back up to help her handle things.........fact or fiction? Just as disturbing 20 years later........All moo.
Ambitioned
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Thank you for doing this!
PositiveLight
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You are not alone.
I too feel for Linda Arndt. She wasn't provided backup. After the kidnappers never called, most everyone left the scene to go to the LE office to start investigating. I believe Officer French and Linda Arndt were the only LE left there. Linda being the only detective. She was compassionate even though she felt she knew the family was involved. She said she counted her bullets mentally after JR brought up JonBenet's body. She knew she was in the presence of a murderer. It could have easily went South and turned into a hostage situation. Some laugh that she counted her bullets, but keep in mind she didn't have backup and she was surrounded by all Ramsey friends and the parents. THAT would be terrifying. I do not blame her one bit. I think her instincts were on the money from the get go that the family was involved. She has gotten a bad rap and I do not understand why.
The detectives shouldn't have left the scene. If anyone should have their actions questioned, it should be them, not Linda. She did the best she could in the situation handed to her.
PositiveLight
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Thank you!
Everything looks good to me!
kanzz
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I think this is worth re-posting, and hope others agree that it is appropriate in this thread as well as its original. IMO, It helps us separate fact from fiction.
Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died
Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died
kanzz
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Thanks. Some of what I posted is a C/P from earlier posts in this thread. There are two different times for police arrival cited on other sources as well. I've not found anything from BPD records, but must confess that I haven't done a thorough search. The Camera reported that police found two blankets:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/12/26-4.html
Tortoise
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Thanks. Is the Daily Camera a reliable source? Just wondering really, if this is going to be included as factual.
Tortoise
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I haven't read FF, can anyone tell me how John explained this absence please. All I've heard is he got his mail, which presumably came through the letter box in the front door. Oh yes, and he was looking out his bedroom window with his binoculars. Was that for 1 hour 20 mins?
kanzz
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I don't really know if they are reporting what police actually found or what JR said he found. In the great scheme of things, I don't know if it is of great consequence, though. She might have been on top of part of the blanket and under the part of the it. I suppose it might matter to those who think he is the one who placed her there. (?)
Tortoise
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It matters in as much as all the evidence matters, and seeing as this thread is dedicated to separating fact from fiction, it matters in that respect too.
kanzz
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Yep. 80 minutes and that's the only explanation he gave. (that I can remember)