The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 3

[BBB167893]

I agree with this, but to a point.

I agree that the bindings and the duct tape were simply used for staging. Why? Because the staging is beyond amateur. For example, if JBR's hands were bound and her mouth duct taped, she could have simply removed the duct tape with her wrists still bound, because her hands were "tied" in front of her, not behind. Some will stay the strangulation would still silence her, and that maybe she did remove it, but then that would mean that the killer went out of his/her way to re-tape her mouth after death -- there would be zero reason for the killer to do this, even if you want to believe the intruder/killer was staging the body.

That's what LE said, too.

I read on the candyrose website that the nightie was in the dryer with the blanket immediately before it was found with JBR. The maid knew it was there, and confirmed that the only other person who would have known that both could be found in the dryer was PR. Basically, PR grabbed the blanket out of the dryer in a panic/hurry and the nightie simply "clung" to the blanket. I don't think it was there for any particular staging element; it simply clung to the blanket (which was used for the staging). Why that particular blanket is anyone's guess.

Maybe because it was available. But I'm not sold on the nightgown being there by accident. Not yet.

 

[BBB167893]

Question: do we know if there were even any abrasions around the bindings on the wrists? What color was the flesh immediately around the bindings? If it was yellow, that would mean she was already close to death once they were applied; if it was purple or darker (redish), that would mean her blood was still flowing and she was very much alive before they were applied......right?

No marks from the wrist bindings at all, Userid.

 

[BBB167893]

I think the cord is nothing more than shoelaces with the nibs cut off and there was nothing to throw away.

I think the tape came off of PR's jacket which she had repaired using black tape. I read about the tape in one of the books in which the matching jackets owned by PW and PR were discussed and have remembered it because PR tried to wear PW's home one night, instead of her own damaged one. I thought "wow! That is so PR!"

Hey, that's a great catch!

Here's an idea: what about a painting sling? I can't take credit for this; DeeDee249 brought it up. But painting slings are made from cord and used to transport paintings. It wouldn't be any trick to take one apart.

 

[Userid]

I'm not sure about the detective/picture story, but I think it is likely that the cord was used up. There wasn't more to find. One of the ends is heat sealed (on the paintbrush). It seems probable that the cord was used for some project and then the remainder used in the crime. I think that explains the wrist bindings. There was like 15" between her wrists. There was another 17 inches between her neck and the brush (not including the bit in the knots). I know some suspect they could be shoelaces, I'm not totally convinced.


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Thanks Annapurna -- I'm trying to remember where I heard about the duct tape being behind the picture in JBR's bedroom -- it's really annoying me now that I can't remember, but anyways...I agree, it was probably all used up in this crime, so there wouldn't be any remainder that would need to be removed from the house.

Didn't the R's own a boat? That nylon string that is pictured is for outdoor use (i.e. boating).

 

[treeseeker]

The housekeeper said she saw the exact same knot tied around a box in the basement. I'd like to know what size box, and if it still had the rope knotted around it.

 

[CoreyRocks]

Thanks Annapurna -- I'm trying to remember where I heard about the duct tape being behind the picture in JBR's bedroom -- it's really annoying me now that I can't remember, but anyways...I agree, it was probably all used up in this crime, so there wouldn't be any remainder that would need to be removed from the house.

Didn't the R's own a boat? That nylon string that is pictured is for outdoor use (i.e. boating).

They owned several boats. One called "Miss America".

 

[CoreyRocks]

The housekeeper said she saw the exact same knot tied around a box in the basement. I'd like to know what size box, and if it still had the rope knotted around it.

I brought this up on another thread. It had been mentioned these cords were wrapped around presents and boxes. I had wondered if they were like the cords placed around packages that are heavy or bulky to lift and carry them from the store.

Maybe they were used that way prior.

Moo.

 

[Userid]

^ Wow, very interesting.

So the only items that are technically "unaccounted for" would be the "stun gun" (assuming those marks were from a stun gun) and the duct tape (assuming the story I heard about the detective having ESP and discovering similar pieces of duct tape on the back of the framed picture in JBR's room is a rumor). Also, the other piece of the paintbrush; and the blunt-force object that was used. 4 objects, 2 of which are in question and one of which (the paintbrush) we all know came from inside the house. So that, in reality, leaves one: the blunt-force object (assuming it wasn't the flash light). Everything else was found in the house and came from a source that was inside the house.

I am a RDI'er, but honestly, the one thing I can't look beyond is those "stun gun" markings. I don't really buy CBS' theory that they came from a train track; the one on her cheek by her ear especially doesn't look like it came from that source. I really don't know what to think about those markings -- I've seen stun-gun pics that really do look exactly like those on JBR.

 

[Annapurna]

^ Wow, very interesting.

So the only items that are technically "unaccounted for" would be the "stun gun" (assuming those marks were from a stun gun) and the duct tape (assuming the story I heard about the detective having ESP and discovering similar pieces of duct tape on the back of the framed picture in JBR's room is a rumor). Also, the other piece of the paintbrush; and the blunt-force object that was used. 4 objects, 2 of which are in question and one of which (the paintbrush) we all know came from inside the house. So that, in reality, leaves one: the blunt-force object (assuming it wasn't the flash light). Everything else was found in the house and came from a source that was inside the house.

I am a RDI'er, but honestly, the one thing I can't look beyond is those "stun gun" markings. I don't really buy CBS' theory that they came from a train track; the one on her cheek by her ear especially doesn't look like it came from that source. I really don't know what to think about those markings -- I've seen stun-gun pics that really do look exactly like those on JBR.

The only problem is that in the AR the marks are described as abrasions, not burns. This suggests the skin was punctured, not just damaged.

I've never seen marks that look like that which were taken within a similar time frame. I have seen pictures ( the ones Lou smit used) of Howard Boggs who was tasered at the time of death, and the marks do look similar...however the photos were taken after his body was exhumed. He was buried for SIX MONTHS before the pics were taken.


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[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

Thanks Annapurna -- I'm trying to remember where I heard about the duct tape being behind the picture in JBR's bedroom -- it's really annoying me now that I can't remember, but anyways...I agree, it was probably all used up in this crime, so there wouldn't be any remainder that would need to be removed from the house.

Didn't the R's own a boat? That nylon string that is pictured is for outdoor use (i.e. boating).

As if its not confusing enough, even the cord can be linked to any of the three Rs.

Its also used in rock climbing and boy scout knot tying.

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/04/tie-essential-scouting-knots/

[video=youtube;qNNug8rQgyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNNug8rQgyc[/video]

This braided nylon cord is also used for picture hanging, crafts and some sewing projects, such as costumes.

Its also used on parachutes.

 

[PositiveLight]

The only problem is that in the AR the marks are described as abrasions, not burns. This suggests the skin was punctured, not just damaged.

I've never seen marks that look like that which were taken within a similar time frame. I have seen pictures ( the ones Lou smit used) of Howard Boggs who was tasered at the time of death, and the marks do look similar...however the photos were taken after his body was exhumed. He was buried for SIX MONTHS before the pics were taken.


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Yeah I agree. Those weren't stun gun marks. Besides if you watched the CBS documentary, they showed what a grown man would do when tased. Imagine a 6 year old girl. She'd scream and probably run to get away. Stun guns aren't supposed to knock you out.
[video=youtube;IdLv94Y5LsM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdLv94Y5LsM[/video]
I don't think imho it was a stun gun.

 

[Annapurna]

As if its not confusing enough, even the cord can be linked to any of the three Rs.

Its also used in rock climbing and boy scout knot tying.

http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/04/tie-essential-scouting-knots/

[video=youtube;qNNug8rQgyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNNug8rQgyc[/video]

This braided nylon cord is also used for picture hanging, crafts and some sewing projects, such as costumes.

Its also used on parachutes.

True, all 4 really. JBR was taking rock climbing lessons. To make it even more confusing, there was that rope found in JAR's room, he was an avid hiker I believe.


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[HarmonyE.]

I am a RDI'er, but honestly, the one thing I can't look beyond is those "stun gun" markings. I don't really buy CBS' theory that they came from a train track; the one on her cheek by her ear especially doesn't look like it came from that source. I really don't know what to think about those markings -- I've seen stun-gun pics that really do look exactly like those on JBR.

They don't match up measurement-wise with the stun gun Lou Smit insisted was the one used.They weren't described as burns but as abrasions by the ME.There is no earthly reason why a kidnapper or murderer would use a stun gun on a sleeping child. It would cause the child to wake and scream. The duct tape would have been a quieter and much more effective option.There was no stun gun.

 

[Userid]

The only problem is that in the AR the marks are described as abrasions, not burns. This suggests the skin was punctured, not just damaged.

I've never seen marks that look like that which were taken within a similar time frame. I have seen pictures ( the ones Lou smit used) of Howard Boggs who was tasered at the time of death, and the marks do look similar...however the photos were taken after his body was exhumed. He was buried for SIX MONTHS before the pics were taken.


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Yeah, very good point. You all make a good point about the stun gun being useless because it would most likely induce JBR to scream more than anything.

Nonetheless though, I still don't believe those marks were caused by a train-track, but I could be wrong.

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

Thanks Annapurna -- I'm trying to remember where I heard about the duct tape being behind the picture in JBR's bedroom -- it's really annoying me now that I can't remember, but anyways...I agree, it was probably all used up in this crime, so there wouldn't be any remainder that would need to be removed from the house.

Didn't the R's own a boat? That nylon string that is pictured is for outdoor use (i.e. boating).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682465/Duct Tape on Mouth#SourceofTape

Not From Picture Frame. "BPD detective Byfield had located two paintings in the home, one of which was hung in JonBenet’s bedroom, that had black tape attached to the rear of the frames. There was no match with the strip of tape found in the windowless room, however. It was later determined that Better Light Photography Studio had placed these pieces of tape on the frames in 1993" (Schiller 1999a:106; quote and source reported by Internet poster Braveheart). Internet poster WhyNut has done a screen capture from a report by Trip DeMuth showing that black duct tape was found on some Ramsey pictures, but that this tape was from a different production run than the tape found on JBR

 

[Annapurna]

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682465/Duct Tape on Mouth#SourceofTape

Not From Picture Frame. "BPD detective Byfield had located two paintings in the home, one of which was hung in JonBenet’s bedroom, that had black tape attached to the rear of the frames. There was no match with the strip of tape found in the windowless room, however. It was later determined that Better Light Photography Studio had placed these pieces of tape on the frames in 1993" (Schiller 1999a:106; quote and source reported by Internet poster Braveheart). Internet poster WhyNut has done a screen capture from a report by Trip DeMuth showing that black duct tape was found on some Ramsey pictures, but that this tape was from a different production run than the tape found on JBR

Just an FYI (not related to the above info) to be kinda careful with the pbworks site, a lot of it is sourced from forums so it can be hard to determine what is good evidence and what is not. Side note, I was just approved to edit the JBR pbworks site! So I will try and find good sources for everything. Just wanted to let you know. I love seeing all the info laid out like that, but I feel a little suspicious of the facts sometimes (I feel like a teacher telling you not to use Wikipedia as a source, lol... the same idea applies though! its a good place to get info, but you can't use it as the source). Not trying to be rude, and the above info is fine, just had to say it and I'm not good at keeping my mouth shut, lol

 

[No it's not]

Hey, that's a great catch!

Here's an idea: what about a painting sling? I can't take credit for this; DeeDee249 brought it up. But painting slings are made from cord and used to transport paintings. It wouldn't be any trick to take one apart.

Could also be a string they used to tie (one of) their artificial Christmas trees ( artificial greens fround in JBR hair..?). That was one of the reason I asked some time ago, if they were storing their trees in the wine cellar in boxes or not. Just a thought.

-Nin

 

[HarmonyE.]

I've never understood how anything much could be made of the garland strand in her hair. That whole house was Christmas hell. It literally could have come from anywhere.

 

[BBB167893]

The only problem is that in the AR the marks are described as abrasions, not burns. This suggests the skin was punctured, not just damaged.

I've never seen marks that look like that which were taken within a similar time frame. I have seen pictures ( the ones Lou smit used) of Howard Boggs who was tasered at the time of death, and the marks do look similar...however the photos were taken after his body was exhumed. He was buried for SIX MONTHS before the pics were taken.


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RIGHT! The pictures taken at the time of his autopsy don't look anything like the marks on JB. They look like the ones on Sgt. Wilson, though.

 

[PositiveLight]

Could also be a string they used to tie (one of) their artificial Christmas trees ( artificial greens fround in JBR hair..?). That was one of the reason I asked some time ago, if they were storing their trees in the wine cellar in boxes or not. Just a thought.

-Nin

That's what I feel is the actual original use for it. My daddy was a boy scout leader and he used this same type of knot and rope to keep our Christmas tree boxes together. After a few years they get weaker so the closure helps keep it in the box. There may have been a bunch of them laying around since they used so many Christmas trees. Maybe the others disappeared during the hour and a half John was missing. Does anyone know what the items blacked out on the search warrants were? I'm curious if they could be the missing link. They had to black them out for a good reason.

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