Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

[88mph]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12176671#post12176671

This is interesting. Really interesting.

Never have we closely examined the text in this image or the 4x red dots on the map in the images. I'm assuming each dot represents an attack but I can't clearly make out the map.... Considering the Karrakatta link wasn't made until after this doco, what is the fourth dot (or fourth attack)?

Can anyone get a high resolution copy of this image?

This is as close as a new lead we have had for a while.

 

[Bartholemeus]

This is interesting. Really interesting.

Never have we closely examined the text in this image or the 4x red dots on the map in the images. I'm assuming each dot represents an attack but I can't clearly make out the map.... Considering the Karrakatta link wasn't made until after this doco, what is the fourth dot (or fourth attack)?

Can anyone get a high resolution copy of this image?

This is as close as a new lead we have had for a while.

The 4 dots are;

1. SS abduction spot
2. JR last seen spot
3. Church Lane bash head against wall spot
4. Claremont Subway drag out of car and try to rape

They would unlikely have a description for SS and JR. But would have to have one for the other two. Does the identikit suggest they think Claremont Subway and Church Lane are same guy and he looks like that?

If they have an identikit for the sex attacks then why haven't they released it? It's not as if they don't have anything to lose.

 

[crabstick]

Debi Marshall asked Lances mother in the interview whether Lance hired a car. Maybe a tip off from police.

The fibres that police have are that of a VS Commodore. Its how they determined the car was not that old. Its potential and the hire cars are only kept for a couple of years old, and consider the VS model was a year old. It would probably be a VS if they did hire a Commodore. <modsnip> It could have been Peugot

Thats the very reason police more than likely theorised a hire car. Because hire car companies predominantly had VS models due to their leasing arrangements.

The cops have DNA from the rape etc. They have cleared other POIs on DNA. The police have DNA on LW which clears Lance.

And wears a melancholy like a cloak. I just cant pick Lance for the killer. Mentally ill with depression. I presume full of drugs at the bank? Or was it MRD?

The seat trim fabric was used only on the Series 1, launched in April 1995, and was changed for the Series 2.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...a133a1f927d319

Have you a reference though to whether LW started at MRD after CG? If not he was working at the bank with all those bank account details in a database.

Yep, petrol station

1. My understanding is LW start at MRD after CG
2. There is no reference to LW "potentially" leasing a VS Commodore in DM's book. Macro did accuse/suggest he might have hired a car but there is no mention that it was a VS. Unfortunately you're making stuff up again.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Debi Marshall asked Lances mother in the interview whether Lance hired a car. Maybe a tip off from police.

The fibres that police have are that of a VS Commodore. Its how they determined the car was not that old. Its potential and the hire cars are only kept for a couple of years old, and consider the VS model was a year old. It would probably be a VS if they did hire a Commodore. <modsnip> It could have been Peugot

Thats the very reason police more than likely theorised a hire car. Because hire car companies predominantly had VS models due tot heir leasing arrangements.

<modsnip>

1. They allegedly lost the fibre samples. If true they would not have known it was a VS until at least 2008. <modsnip>

2. The alleged reason Macro suggested LW hired a car was because he was unlicensed. The suggestion was he didn't have a car so he needed to hire. He had a car though. This never made sense. Perhaps they did know they were looking for a VS. But it's one of many options.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Yep, petrol station

I'm quite aware his parents ran a servo. But you have implied you know which one.

So which one was it?

 

[crabstick]

How would I know!!! 6 kilometres from Claremont in Mosman park

I'm quite aware his parents ran a servo. But you have implied you know which one.

So which one was it?

 

[crabstick]

If you have a look. The 17 year old said her assault guy was around thirty or older. Its in the source I posted several times. But for you, I will post it again.

More interesting are the red dots on the left of the image. That looks like our Karrakatta Commodore driving 30 something printing mystery man out of the JR video who was about 15 years older than Sarah Spiers. Thats no boyfriend.

Hes definitely not a looker.

Dont worry, I did it for you. Thats ok, thank me later.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12176671#post12176671

Given you insist on facts;
Are you a psychic? Because for someone who is keen on people keeping to facts I can only assume you have a crystal ball in order to work all that out.
View attachment 103866

Friday&#8217;s edition of the Post also reported that police now believed the victim from the Karrakatta rape was tied up with washing line, not telephone wire as previously reported.

The washing line was found to be impregnated with material used in screen printing, the paper reported.

In addition, the newspaper said fibres found on Jane Rimmer&#8217;s body were found to match the upholstery of a Holden VS Commodore.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...7280fc03b67c97

 

[crabstick]

Allegedly selling $10000 lots of amphetamine to Sarah McMahon. You have to have organised crime links. A mechanic who services bobcats and trucks.
Abattoir mates used to dealing with blood all day and night. To kill people, that's pretty bad really. Its a lot of nerve to live with. They have DNA so it is not him. Hes been in prison.

Im just wondering if he is the mate of the abattoir ex military truck driving guy Morey who had some relationship with Nedlands? Maybe this guy was a mate of Mr Black Beret Moustache? Maybe someone knocked him off? 30 year old CSK was too hot for drug dealers? Who is the Commodore printing guy? Was he a sales guy for a printing firm and had a sales rep Commodore?

http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/mcmahon_finding.pdf

 

[crabstick]

Claremont Killings CCTV footage released
[video=youtube;hbbg-FVij4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c[/video]

He does face the camera. Either he was lucky and was facing the camera when it switched to the other two views, or he can be seen on camera but Macro decided not to release it.
Why would there be another one? There's either one camera that moves to 3 views, or there's a camera for each of those 3 views shown in the MM footage. But it's highly unlikely there would be another one.
No. The footage that I have seen doesn't show the direction he leaves in. Do you have some footage the rest of us don't have or are you making stuff up (again)?

Mr Dawson said the police had sent the vision to US space agency NASA for enhancement years ago but they were unable to do so.

It has now been given to a production company for digital enhancement ahead of its release on the pay-TV documentary next week.

Mr Dawson said the release of the footage had been stage-managed to spark maximum public interest in the case.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/na...0818-3xck.html

 

[crabstick]

What made you think I was referring the Conti? And what does it matter? Sarah went missing from the block. How embarrassing to be a security team and have someone go missing in front of your eyes. Thats brazen to step in front the security team and walk away. I cant see him looking at the camera.

There is an entire security team there facing each other after one girl had gone from there less than 12 months prior. He has walked right up in front of the security team. He could have held their hands FFS. None of them noticed him. They were too busy playing with each others balls.
IMHO the footage released 3 days later would have helped little.
Notice how he swims in from one direction, and shoots off in another, but never faces the camera. Maybe he was a security guy, who wanted to embarrass the relatively new security team on the block? Who took whose business away from them? Who were the prior security team? Was he a professional mercenary sent in to teach Claremont business owners a lesson on who they should have kept as security? They even did a paper spiel on the new Claremont security mogal who owned a new bright red Ferrari talking him up.
Was this punishment for changing security teams in Claremont? It certainly was when all the crap started.

There's either one camera that moves to 3 views, or there's a camera for each of those 3 views shown in the MM footage. But it's highly unlikely there would be another one.
SS did not go to The Conti.

Claremont Killings CCTV footage released
[video=youtube;hbbg-FVij4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c[/video]
Other youtube footage on Claremont

 

[88mph]

The 4 dots are;

1. SS abduction spot
2. JR last seen spot
3. Church Lane bash head against wall spot
4. Claremont Subway drag out of car and try to rape

They would unlikely have a description for SS and JR. But would have to have one for the other two. Does the identikit suggest they think Claremont Subway and Church Lane are same guy and he looks like that?

If they have an identikit for the sex attacks then why haven't they released it? It's not as if they don't have anything to lose.

Thanks Bart, so reading between the lines MACRO believe that these are also linked? We hypothesise that they are, but MACRO have gone further here. Such different attacks, but all very violent nonetheless.

I also find church lane attack interesting as it's not on the periphery like the other attacks. Very brazen.

Have you been able to read the text on the articles in these images? Surely they offer something.

 

[Sillybilly]

Posts have been removed due to personalizing and bickering, posting screenshots other than MSM/LE, posting rumour, discussing rumor as fact.

Mods/Admin don't have time to go through each post to edit out the TOS violations. From now on, if a post contains accusatory or disrespectful comments, the entire post will be unapproved ... regardless of any other interesting or valuable information it may contain.

Time to review The Rules folks.

 

[Psi]

Thanks for that. I bet they were kicking themselves afterwards. Interesting how on one hand, we hear that evidence was scarce at the scene but they seem to have collected enough items to cause problems with cataloging and storage.

They allegedly lost the evidence though. I do recall reading an article where WAPOL admitted their evidence collecting and storing methods were second rate and evidence was lost so they overhauled their system. But they then allegedly found the fibres in 2004 after the Schramm review and then lost them a second time.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Posts have been removed due to personalizing and bickering, posting screenshots other than MSM/LE, posting rumour, discussing rumor as fact.

Mods/Admin don't have time to go through each post to edit out the TOS violations. From now on, if a post contains accusatory or disrespectful comments, the entire post will be unapproved ... regardless of any other interesting or valuable information it may contain.

Time to review The Rules folks.

What choice do we have? <modsnip>

 

[Sillybilly]

What choice do we have? <modsnip>

The choice is to follow The Rules or face a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges. This is not a difficult concept, and we have many, many threads where it is not an issue.

Each and every member is responsible for being familiar and knowledgeable about WS Terms of Service. As stated in The Rules, if there is an offensive post or a post that otherwise violates TOS, do NOT respond to it. It only perpetuates the problem and makes our moderating more difficult. Use the Alert feature to let Mods/Admin know you have a concern and let them deal with it. Do not try to moderate the thread yourself and don't question the decision that Mods/Admin reach.

End of convo about moderation in a thread that is dedicated to discussion of the CSK case.

:tyou:

 

[silver tongue]

JCs car which was dumped in the surf ,i wonder if it fully submerged if not the ashtray butts should have traces of DNA
i think whoever did this wanted to get rid of dna and mu st be one hell of a risk taker why not burn it ,most crims do
this was a clever ploy by the killer and has trained army written all over it oh yeah thanks crabstick

 

[Bartholemeus]

JCs car which was dumped in the surf ,i wonder if it fully submerged if not the ashtray butts should have traces of DNA
i think whoever did this wanted to get rid of dna and mu st be one hell of a risk taker why not burn it ,most crims do
this was a clever ploy by the killer and has trained army written all over it oh yeah thanks crabdick

The Fiat was fully submerged. It disappeared for a day or two and then washed up close to shore.

 

[crabstick]

PW made the claim in the media the crime was political in a brief interview on television. "If" the crime is political then someone might disappear under terrorism law. Which begs the question, has the crime been suppressed because of corruption which could expose a flawed system? Never mind, thinking out aloud as we may never see this case resolved especially under the premise that someone will never receive a fair trial?

I think PW was referring for the reason he was targeted. But there could be a flip side. Maybe the crime was political.

If police acted under political motivation. Maybe there is repercussions based on other POIs if the case is solved?

At the end of the day, police were taking DNA samples as of last year. So they must be picking away at the fabric.

terrorism
&#712;t&#603;r&#601;r&#618;z&#601;m/
noun
noun: terrorism

"the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

<modsnip>

 

[crabstick]

I feel this is the very reason Julie Cutlers car ended up in the ocean. An attempt to destroy DNA in and around the vehicle. But DNA forensics was relatively new. UWA was just starting a course in DNA forensics. The mmmm Safe Community Fund I think it was actually paid for a DNA unit that was never used according Debi Marshall.
I would have thought your average crim wouldnt have known about DNA destruction at the time. I don't even think I knew about DNA at the time. But I didn't know much then. I was in a bubble.

Which begs the question. Someone must have had considerable training to be ahead of the game with future technology developing. What type of criminal knows this? Particular police units would have. Im not implying a cop. Someone would have some science education?

At that point, what level of education would have taught about DNA, how it would be destroyed and how to prevent its detection. That narrows down some POIs across the public

Police only have full DNA through a forensic link to the Karrakatta assault and that was an earlier crime. Notably the 2 discovered bodies didnt appear to shed any light on DNA but had a forensic link.

Some police investigators were not overly accepting of the new DNA technology. It was a game changer.

Our criminal has a university education? Maybe in science?

He left her for dead. It sounds like it was a violent sexual assault,not rape. Hard to tell with media artistic licence. But didn't he ponder his DNA would turn up? 1996 Spiers disappears.

Did he let her go deliberately? There was a forensic link. He must have been confident they wouldn't match his DNA unless they found him? He's regional or overseas?

Could it have been a brand new station wagon in 1995?

JCs car which was dumped in the surf ,i wonder if it fully submerged if not the ashtray butts should have traces of DNA
i think whoever did this wanted to get rid of dna and mu st be one hell of a risk taker why not burn it ,most crims do
this was a clever ploy by the killer and has trained army written all over it oh yeah thanks crabdick

 

[crabstick]

You are talking in tongues there. Setting the car on fire in Cottesloe around midnight might have attracted attention. Driving the car to a place that might attract attention too.

Who knows, but rolling a car into the sea albeit dead set middle winter was brazen. That air of arrogance he wouldn't be caught?

It was 1988. Debi Marshalls book explains the construction of he DNA laboratories in 1996 or later, so all crims didnt destroy in 1988. DNA wasn't commonly known about

JCs car which was dumped in the surf ,i wonder if it fully submerged if not the ashtray butts should have traces of DNA
i think whoever did this wanted to get rid of dna and mu st be one hell of a risk taker why not burn it ,most crims do
this was a clever ploy by the killer and has trained army written all over it oh yeah thanks crabdick

DNA evidence has made a significant contribution to criminal investigations in Australia and around the world since it was widely adopted in the 1990s (Gans & Urbas 2002).
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/501-520/tandi506.html