Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

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silver tongue said:
JCs car which was dumped in the surf ,i wonder if it fully submerged if not the ashtray butts should have traces of DNA
i think whoever did this wanted to get rid of dna and mu st be one hell of a risk taker why not burn it ,most crims do
this was a clever ploy by the killer and has trained army written all over it oh yeah thanks crabdick
Click to expand...

What was the weather doing when JC went missing? Maybe it was too windy and/or hot to set fire to the car?
 
New recruit here , hi ive joined ws so I can offer some insight about the area of claremont , swanbourne , cottesloe . I have much respect for the sleuthers on this subject especially those who keep it on track . For the last few years ive read everything online about this case & wanted to join in but it took a while to figure out how to sign up & did recently (then had some practice on some of the other ws threads to get confident with the way it works ) When I read the public forums I notice that some ppl can't quite get a feel for the area , and thought I could offer a tiny bit of insight to possibly help the better sleuthers . In the mid 80s I lived at a boarding house of scotch college , firstly on Stirling rd at end of Culdesac near to the golf course . I was age 11-14yr old the few years I was attending this college boarding house . This Culdesac was where the taxi assault happened nearby I believe . Being a boarder at the school I walked around the area of claremont shops & went via a subway ( not sure if it is the one of assault ) & even may have sneaked out the window at night to go exploring at night locally . It was scary actually , there was graylands mental hospital nearby and sometimes I encountered those persons a couple times & imo the rowe park masturbator could have been one of these guys ( slim chance ) another time a friend & I were randomly beaten up by a carfull of bogans in a escort van as we cycled to cottesloe beach in daytime .
After a while being a boarder student I was allowed to go to swanbourne or cottesloe area beaches on weekends mostly on pushbike , about age 13/14 yrs . It was from 1983-1986 but I would return home to the country during holidays so it wasn't nonstop residence there . As I grew up before this time in perth there was rumour of yellow panel van danger & plenty of rape & murders of women in the news . The girl who disappeared at collie wasn't that far away from the country area I was from & even then as kids we were warned about panel van stranger danger . The article posted by crabstick yesterday detailing the cottesloe beach hotel attack was a bit of a slap in my face , because I had been aware of the msn article but hadnt seen it so convincingly linked previously , thanks for the improved article crabs ; imo it shows much local knowledge to drive to the redundant drive-ins (were they not in use at the time ?) That is a very secluded area . It makes me think that the cott hotel was the place when this attacker was in early stage of experience (and geez it fits lw ) then the claremont area was even more classy & became his focus as he grew . It may well have been that it was known by some that some classy girls were being left very vulnerable at the closing times in claremont , & there was a danger for women & what I mean is that this perp figured this out as his crimes escalated from the streets of cott & surrounds, to the ultimate goal of assaulting a sophisticated rich girl from the claremont strip . Those drive ins were deserted when I went there in the mid 80s & its in an area with swamp & golf courses & big areas of college school ovals ,with not many ppl around at all .imo very sinister place to take the abducted girl .
At some times whilst reading this subject ive thought there may have been more than one perp independent of each other . Im not sure about copycat type crime statistics but with the history of perth having the birnies & that Cook guy may well have lured in outsiders ( dixie etc ) inspired by these violent rapists.
No wonder le thought lw was the guy; with local knowledge & his cottesloe locale . One question please about the dna link between kk & cg , does this link guarantee something , or is it a breakable link ? I just cant figure out how to understand it so if anyone would elaborate please ? Thanks

sent from a tiny cheap gadget
 
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If LW has been cleared, is JC still considered a victim of the CSK?
 
Psi said:
If LW has been cleared, is JC still considered a victim of the CSK?
Click to expand...
I think JC may have been considered a victim before LW was even in the picture, but I might be wrong.
 
meticulously said:
New recruit here , hi ive joined ws so I can offer some insight about the area of claremont , swanbourne , cottesloe . I have much respect for the sleuthers on this subject especially those who keep it on track . For the last few years ive read everything online about this case & wanted to join in but it took a while to figure out how to sign up & did recently (then had some practice on some of the other ws threads to get confident with the way it works ) When I read the public forums I notice that some ppl can't quite get a feel for the area , and thought I could offer a tiny bit of insight to possibly help the better sleuthers . In the mid 80s I lived at a boarding house of scotch college , firstly on Stirling rd at end of Culdesac near to the golf course . I was age 11-14yr old the few years I was attending this college boarding house . This Culdesac was where the taxi assault happened nearby I believe . Being a boarder at the school I walked around the area of claremont shops & went via a subway ( not sure if it is the one of assault ) & even may have sneaked out the window at night to go exploring at night locally . It was scary actually , there was graylands mental hospital nearby and sometimes I encountered those persons a couple times & imo the rowe park masturbator could have been one of these guys ( slim chance ) another time a friend & I were randomly beaten up by a carfull of bogans in a escort van as we cycled to cottesloe beach in daytime .
After a while being a boarder student I was allowed to go to swanbourne or cottesloe area beaches on weekends mostly on pushbike , about age 13/14 yrs . It was from 1983-1986 but I would return home to the country during holidays so it wasn't nonstop residence there . As I grew up before this time in perth there was rumour of yellow panel van danger & plenty of rape & murders of women in the news . The girl who disappeared at collie wasn't that far away from the country area I was from & even then as kids we were warned about panel van stranger danger . The article posted by crabstick yesterday detailing the cottesloe beach hotel attack was a bit of a slap in my face , because I had been aware of the msn article but hadnt seen it so convincingly linked previously , thanks for the improved article crabs ; imo it shows much local knowledge to drive to the redundant drive-ins (were they not in use at the time ?) That is a very secluded area . It makes me think that the cott hotel was the place when this attacker was in early stage of experience (and geez it fits lw ) then the claremont area was even more classy & became his focus as he grew . It may well have been that it was known by some that some classy girls were being left very vulnerable at the closing times in claremont , & there was a danger for women & what I mean is that this perp figured this out as his crimes escalated from the streets of cott & surrounds, to the ultimate goal of assaulting a sophisticated rich girl from the claremont strip . Those drive ins were deserted when I went there in the mid 80s & its in an area with swamp & golf courses & big areas of college school ovals ,with not many ppl around at all .imo very sinister place to take the abducted girl .
At some times whilst reading this subject ive thought there may have been more than one perp independent of each other . Im not sure about copycat type crime statistics but with the history of perth having the birnies & that Cook guy may well have lured in outsiders ( dixie etc ) inspired by these violent rapists.
No wonder le thought lw was the guy; with local knowledge & his cottesloe locale . One question please about the dna link between kk & cg , does this link guarantee something , or is it a breakable link ? I just cant figure out how to understand it so if anyone would elaborate please ? Thanks

sent from a tiny cheap gadget
Click to expand...


LOL for some reason I read that whole thing in my Eric Cartman innocent whisper voice.
 
Hi benj , to elaborate on my question ; does the dna link mean its definitely the same perp or is it just the same ink, or cable ?

sent from a tiny cheap gadget
 
You have to be highly skilled to have even got to this stage with the little gadget that im typing with sorry benj ,
I can't offer much to this thread but im offering something that may help other sleuthers get a better idea . I was walking around at night in the area quite vulnerable at a time when my perception was clear so if I may do im happy to try to paint a picture of the claremont / cott area from the street view that I encountered while I was in school in the 80s a few mins walk away from the pubs . There was a lot of areas that felt dangerous due to the geography where if I was on the streets or the golf course in claremont especially at night where it would be favorable for a perp to blitz attack .
One time while at the boarding house a naked man ran into the area & was having some episode of madness , he was from graylands hospital . My peers and I were scared if ever walking in the hospital area . The railway track went right in between where I lived and claremont cbd and it was another danger area especially at night . The golf course was a favorite haunt to find golf balls in the lake but at night time very eerie place it felt very spooky to me with dark areas and few lamp posts .end . Thanks

sent from a tiny cheap gadget
 
Another cold case - 1995 - Karen Skinner - Aged 20 - missing WA
 
Police are seeking the public’s assistance to help locate a missing 31 year old Cottesloe woman.

Charlene Evelyn DU PLESSIS was last seen by her house mate around 6.20pm on 29 October 2016.

She was last seen wearing a blue apron, red dress, grey shawl and was carrying a grey jacket. She was also in possession of a large multi-coloured beach style shoulder bag.
 
I am having terrible problems commenting on this site, especially with quotes.
 
Perthnow 20.03.15 Apparently Jonathan Whitacker expert in LCN (low copy number) DNA flew to Australia to help with the investigation?
 
Its my opinion, based on personal experience: if you disagree with any of it that's fine with me :)

My TLDR point was that despite popular perceptions of the Western Suburbs in the 90's, once I lived there I realised it was all smoke and mirrors. I didn't have loads of money and neither did my uni friends, but we still went to the conti, the same as we went to the loft, the grosvenor or wherever. We liked the live music scene so we gravitated towards the shents, Harbourside etc but if you put on a dress shirt, comb your hair and stand with 2-3 people having a drink you're as good as local and no-one ever looked ME up and down or made me feel like we were intruders in an exclusive private school club lol.

My German friends from uwa used to go to an international student night at "Red Rock" years ago and the none of them could understand the reputation either.

Claremont speedway closed about 20 years ago didn't it?
Won't be seeing anyone dropping into claremont before of after it I imagine.

An ex used to go to Clubber with her netball mates and she said it was a dump: loads of men in their 30s and over trying to pick up drunk uni girls. She said it was good for cheap drinks but you wouldn't want to be left on your own there because of all the creeps. Thats a far cry from an exclusive nightspot with a privileged, classy clientele it's often portrayed as. I can't imagine it was much different in the mid 90s.

I doubt the CSK had a grudge against what he saw as classy western suburbs girls and wanted to extract revenge for some grudge or grievance by targeting "rich girls" in an exclusive area. IMO it's more likely he (or they) knew there would be drunk uni girls everywhere, knew that the area is deserted at night beyond Bayview Terrace/Gugeri St and that it had several carparks and dark places to lay in wait. If it was the same guy as the KK attack, he probably knew how deserted Railway Rd is at night and chose these areas as his hunting ground.

I used to walk home often from Loch St station at night through the Cemetery and out the other side behind that sailmakers or yacht place near the council yard (forget what its called now).
I can tell you now, I hardly saw a soul on that walk anytime after 9pm. Northbridge would have provided a lot of pretty young girls, but less opportunity to blitz attack one of them due to all the activity, the other cars etc. I believe he chose Claremont purely because it was convenient and had everything he wanted: drunk uni girls, access to quiet, dark streets and access to either Stirling Highway or Railway Rd to get to and from the area.

Anyway thats my $2.50.
 
Mordekai said:
Its my opinion, based on personal experience: if you disagree with any of it that's fine with me :)

My TLDR point was that despite popular perceptions of the Western Suburbs in the 90's, once I lived there I realised it was all smoke and mirrors. I didn't have loads of money and neither did my uni friends, but we still went to the conti, the same as we went to the loft, the grosvenor or wherever. We liked the live music scene so we gravitated towards the shents, Harbourside etc but if you put on a dress shirt, comb your hair and stand with 2-3 people having a drink you're as good as local and no-one ever looked ME up and down or made me feel like we were intruders in an exclusive private school club lol.

My German friends from uwa used to go to an international student night at "Red Rock" years ago and the none of them could understand the reputation either.

Claremont speedway closed about 20 years ago didn't it?
Won't be seeing anyone dropping into claremont before of after it I imagine.

An ex used to go to Clubber with her netball mates and she said it was a dump: loads of men in their 30s and over trying to pick up drunk uni girls. She said it was good for cheap drinks but you wouldn't want to be left on your own there because of all the creeps. Thats a far cry from an exclusive nightspot with a privileged, classy clientele it's often portrayed as. I can't imagine it was much different in the mid 90s.

I doubt the CSK had a grudge against what he saw as classy western suburbs girls and wanted to extract revenge for some grudge or grievance by targeting "rich girls" in an exclusive area. IMO it's more likely he (or they) knew there would be drunk uni girls everywhere, knew that the area is deserted at night beyond Bayview Terrace/Gugeri St and that it had several carparks and dark places to lay in wait. If it was the same guy as the KK attack, he probably knew how deserted Railway Rd is at night and chose these areas as his hunting ground.

I used to walk home often from Loch St station at night through the Cemetery and out the other side behind that sailmakers or yacht place near the council yard (forget what its called now).
I can tell you now, I hardly saw a soul on that walk anytime after 9pm. Northbridge would have provided a lot of pretty young girls, but less opportunity to blitz attack one of them due to all the activity, the other cars etc. I believe he chose Claremont purely because it was convenient and had everything he wanted: drunk uni girls, access to quiet, dark streets and access to either Stirling Highway or Railway Rd to get to and from the area.

Anyway thats my $2.50.
Click to expand...

Have to say I support your comments and others comments about the clientele in the area. I was a uni student in the mid to late 90's and plenty of people from uni went out in Claremont. Most of them lived all over Perth.

If anything Claremont Hotel /The Continental and Club Bay View were destinations for people all over Perth to go for a different night out. They were like Leederville and Subiaco at the time (and now). Alternatives to going out in the main entertainment district in Northbridge.

They certainly weren't like your usual local pub like The Carine Tavern, Lakers in Thornlie or The Greenwood Tavern which would mostly have been populated by locals to the area.
 
The stretch of Stirling highway was patrolled by the Birnies. The area was reknowned for Cook murders.

The case shares attributes of the zodiac killer.
And maybe the Ripper.
But girls were not rich. Two of the girls parents were upper middle class but they were not wealthy.
If you know the area, they were far from being wealthy.
And they were spread in age.
And going by the sexual assault the culprit a decade older.
 
With the distance the killer drove with the bodies, I don't know why people think that the killer lived near Claremont. Any intelligent killer would kill in a different area to where he lives. ie. Israel Keyes. I suspect the killer just liked hanging out there or was familiar with it. I know that if I was a killer, there is no way that I would kill people in my own suburb. If you are going to dump the bodies so far away, why not just pick up girls from further away... unless you hate the type of women that attend that type of establishment, and want to teach those spoilt *****es a lesson.
 
Below are a list of the Zodiac killers signature MO's. I believe that the CSK is a Zodiac copycat.

- Telephoned/contacted victims families after the crime.
- Contacted police after the crimes.
- Brought precut lengths of clothesline to restrain victims.
- Feined illiteracy using misspelled words during correspondence with police/media/public.
- Included puns and word games in his correspondence with police/media/public.
- Continued to correspond with police/media/public months & years after crimes were committed.
- Removed wristwatch from victim and left it on or near victims body.
- Geographically preselected crime scene by plotting coordinates on a map.
- Zodiac selected Gaelic street names to dump bodies such as Deegan meaning: Black haired
- References to film/music in correspondences.
- Use of double letters in correspondence. ie Merry Christmass

Make of that what you will.
 
The thing is, they weren't spoiled b****es. They all had jobs. They had to work normal jobs. Nothing was working for daddy. They weren't given everything. Im just wondering what sort of cars they may have driven. Cutler had a dilapidated FIAT with a busted door or similar. She worked in hospitality. Jane Rimmer worked at a daycare I think. Sarah was a secretary. Ciara was a lawyer after returning from a holiday in Ireland which she overstayed 7 weeks with family. Sarah lived in a flat I believe. They weren't exactly 'rich' b******
They werent living a life of the wealthy.

Maybe he had met them in his younger years and they had rejected him? Ciara had only been here a few years though?

Ciaras father was politically connected. He went to the Premiers barbecues at his house. Richard Court. Was Ciara targeted because of her fathers political connections?

Did Sarahs father have any connections with the Liberal party? He had a sheering business.

BenJones84 said:
With the distance the killer drove with the bodies, I don't know why people think that the killer lived near Claremont. Any intelligent killer would kill in a different area to where he lives. ie. Israel Keyes. I suspect the killer just liked hanging out there or was familiar with it. I know that if I was a killer, there is no way that I would kill people in my own suburb. If you are going to dump the bodies so far away, why not just pick up girls from further away... unless you hate the type of women that attend that type of establishment, and want to teach those spoilt *****es a lesson.
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