New book coming out by Paula Woodward

[FairM1]

The use of the word 'tomorrow' in the ransom note also makes me think the first part of this crime happened before midnight. Patsy lost track of the time after that, even if she was writing the note after midnight.

Who said Patsy wrote the note? that is pure speculation and has not been proved as a fact.

 

[Heymom]

Who said Patsy wrote the note? that is pure speculation and has not been proved as a fact.

First, there was no intruder. That leaves 3 people in the house who could have written it.

John Ramsey has been eliminated by handwriting exemplars.

Burke Ramsey has also been eliminated.

Patsy Ramsey could not be eliminated as the author. Several of her handwriting characteristics and phrases are in the note. Therefore, there is a 99% likelihood that she wrote the note.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Who said Patsy wrote the note? that is pure speculation and has not been proved as a fact.

Considering handwriting and linguistic analysis are not exact sciences, and because most work in this area is devoted to finding forgeries not linking disguised handwriting to subjects, it's not really something that can be "proved as fact." Plenty of people more qualified than you or I think it is incredibly likely she did.

From my files:
"The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, after studying several of Patsy’s handwriting exemplars, noted “evidence which indicates the questioned handwritten note may have been written by [Patricia Ramsey], but the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.” Chet Ubowski of the CBI, who was being asked to make the call of a lifetime, couldn’t do it with courtroom certainty. Privately, however, Ubowski, who had made the early discovery that Patsy’s handwriting was consistent with the ransom note on twenty-four of the twenty-six alphabet letters, had recently told one detective, “I believe she wrote it.”"
(ST, p152)

"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

Rashomon
Wolnzach, Germany Reply »
|Report Abuse |#112 40 min ago

[snip]

Michelle Dresbold - Handwriting Analysis Expert Trained by the U. S. Secret Service:

“The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent.”

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner:

“Based on the presently available documents, there are strong indications that Patsy Ramsey is the author of the ransom note.”

David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner:

“There are far too many similarities and consistencies revealed in the handwriting of Patsy Ramsey and
the ransom note for it to be coincidence. In light of the number of comparisons and similarities between Patsy Ramsey and the ransom note writer (51), the chances of a third party also sharing the same characteristics is astronomical. In my professional opinion Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer.”

Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents:

“Based upon available exemplars compared to the purported "ransom" note in the JonBenét Ramsey murder, the handwriting is probably that of Patsy Ramsey.”

Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert:

Chet Ubowski wrote, "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' He is said to have found 24 of 26 letters in the ransom note which matched exemplars from Patsy Ramsey.

Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner:

“I have made careful examination and comparison of the ‘ransom’ note and the exemplars of Patsy Ramsey. I have reached the conclusion that the handwritings and ‘ransom’ note were very probably written by the same person…it is my professional opinion that Patsy Ramsey very likely wrote the ‘ransom’ note.”

Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner:

“It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note.”

 

[Ambitioned]

Who said Patsy wrote the note? that is pure speculation and has not been proved as a fact.

Wong's analysis is pretty damning

http://www.acandyrose.com/11141997cinawonganalysis.htm

There's also a "c" with a kink it in. No one else but Patsy could have done it.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

As far as the Cina Wong comparisons go, Patsy's q is one of the best examples. It's pretty distinctive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kanzz]

Considering handwriting and linguistic analysis are not exact sciences, and because most work in this area is devoted to finding forgeries not linking disguised handwriting to subjects, it's not really something that can be "proved as fact." Plenty of people more qualified than you or I think it is incredibly likely she did.

From my files:
"The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, after studying several of Patsy’s handwriting exemplars, noted “evidence which indicates the questioned handwritten note may have been written by [Patricia Ramsey], but the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.” Chet Ubowski of the CBI, who was being asked to make the call of a lifetime, couldn’t do it with courtroom certainty. Privately, however, Ubowski, who had made the early discovery that Patsy’s handwriting was consistent with the ransom note on twenty-four of the twenty-six alphabet letters, had recently told one detective, “I believe she wrote it.”"
(ST, p152)

"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

Rashomon
Wolnzach, Germany Reply »
|Report Abuse |#112 40 min ago
[snip]

Michelle Dresbold - Handwriting Analysis Expert Trained by the U. S. Secret Service:
“The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent.”

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner:
“Based on the presently available documents, there are strong indications that Patsy Ramsey is the author of the ransom note.”

David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner:
“There are far too many similarities and consistencies revealed in the handwriting of Patsy Ramsey and
the ransom note for it to be coincidence. In light of the number of comparisons and similarities between Patsy Ramsey and the ransom note writer (51), the chances of a third party also sharing the same characteristics is astronomical. In my professional opinion Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer.”

Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents:
“Based upon available exemplars compared to the purported "ransom" note in the JonBenét Ramsey murder, the handwriting is probably that of Patsy Ramsey.”

Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert:
Chet Ubowski wrote, "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' He is said to have found 24 of 26 letters in the ransom note which matched exemplars from Patsy Ramsey.

Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner:
“I have made careful examination and comparison of the ‘ransom’ note and the exemplars of Patsy Ramsey. I have reached the conclusion that the handwritings and ‘ransom’ note were very probably written by the same person…it is my professional opinion that Patsy Ramsey very likely wrote the ‘ransom’ note.”

Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner:
“It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note.”

Thank you for all of your notes, DFF. One might be able to argue against an individual, but when taken collectively, it makes any argument pretty weak.

They're all good, but I've always thought this one stands out as especially great:
"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

 

[FairM1]

Considering handwriting and linguistic analysis are not exact sciences, and because most work in this area is devoted to finding forgeries not linking disguised handwriting to subjects, it's not really something that can be "proved as fact." Plenty of people more qualified than you or I think it is incredibly likely she did.

From my files:
"The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, after studying several of Patsy’s handwriting exemplars, noted “evidence which indicates the questioned handwritten note may have been written by [Patricia Ramsey], but the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.” Chet Ubowski of the CBI, who was being asked to make the call of a lifetime, couldn’t do it with courtroom certainty. Privately, however, Ubowski, who had made the early discovery that Patsy’s handwriting was consistent with the ransom note on twenty-four of the twenty-six alphabet letters, had recently told one detective, “I believe she wrote it.”"
(ST, p152)

"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

Rashomon
Wolnzach, Germany Reply »
|Report Abuse |#112 40 min ago

[snip]

Michelle Dresbold - Handwriting Analysis Expert Trained by the U. S. Secret Service:

“The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent.”

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner:

“Based on the presently available documents, there are strong indications that Patsy Ramsey is the author of the ransom note.”

David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner:

“There are far too many similarities and consistencies revealed in the handwriting of Patsy Ramsey and
the ransom note for it to be coincidence. In light of the number of comparisons and similarities between Patsy Ramsey and the ransom note writer (51), the chances of a third party also sharing the same characteristics is astronomical. In my professional opinion Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer.”

Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents:

“Based upon available exemplars compared to the purported "ransom" note in the JonBenét Ramsey murder, the handwriting is probably that of Patsy Ramsey.”

Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert:

Chet Ubowski wrote, "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' He is said to have found 24 of 26 letters in the ransom note which matched exemplars from Patsy Ramsey.

Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner:

“I have made careful examination and comparison of the ‘ransom’ note and the exemplars of Patsy Ramsey. I have reached the conclusion that the handwritings and ‘ransom’ note were very probably written by the same person…it is my professional opinion that Patsy Ramsey very likely wrote the ‘ransom’ note.”

Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner:

“It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note.”

and equally there are several experts who have concluded she did not write it ! eg Richard Dusak of US Secret Service who was instructed by the Boulder PD

 

[Tortoise]

and equally there are several experts who have concluded she did not write it ! eg Richard Dusak of US Secret Service who was instructed by the Boulder PD

He's seriously not worth his salt in that case.

 

[Heymom]

and equally there are several experts who have concluded she did not write it ! eg Richard Dusak of US Secret Service who was instructed by the Boulder PD

That's one - where are the others? And were they paid by the Ramseys?

Again, there were 3 people who could have written that note. 2 have been eliminated. Patsy is the only one of the 3 who could have written it.

There was NO INTRUDER.

 

[FairM1]

That's one - where are the others? And were they paid by the Ramseys?

Again, there were 3 people who could have written that note. 2 have been eliminated. Patsy is the only one of the 3 who could have written it.

There was NO INTRUDER.

at least two that the PD commissioned did not come back with a match for Patsy and two who were instructed by the defence

You don't know neither do i whether or not there was an intruder , its not been proved either way.

oh no not only 3 but any number of people could have

 

[FairM1]

He's seriously not worth his salt in that case.

because he doesnt say what you want him to doesnt make him not worth his salt

 

[Heymom]

at least two that the PD commissioned did not come back with a match for Patsy and two who were instructed by the defence

You don't know neither do i whether or not there was an intruder , its not been proved either way.

oh no not only 3 but any number of people could have

There was no evidence of an intruder and yes, as much as it has been proved.

You cannot go on discussing this case as if there were an intruder. This forum forbids it.

 

[FairM1]

There was no evidence of an intruder and yes, as much as it has been proved.

You cannot go on discussing this case as if there were an intruder. This forum forbids it.

really? this forum forbids it? wow talk about closed minds and bias what's the point of a discussion forum if you can't discuss the case?!

 

[Heymom]

really? this forum forbids it? wow talk about closed minds and bias what's the point of a discussion forum if you can't discuss the case?!

Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died

Dear Websleuths Members,

Our rules at Websleuths are rarely black and white. Many time we have to adjust rules for certain forums.

One rule we do our best to follow is who is allowed to be discussed when it comes to the particular crime committed.

We discuss possible perpetrators based on the mainstream media and police reports.

We do not allow posters to drag innocent people into a discussion and accuse them of a crime.

Because of this rule, we only discuss John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey in this forum.

Those three people have not been cleared by the police and the current District Attorney.

There is nothing to suggest an intruder. The DNA is a red herring. Look at the note, the pineapple, all the evidence in the house, the behavior of the three people in the house, look at all these things. Until all of these things can be explained and logical evidence is offered to show an intruder we will not allow innocent people to be discussed as the possible killer. Just like any other forum on Websleuths.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

 

[kanzz]

really? this forum forbids it? wow talk about closed minds and bias what's the point of a discussion forum if you can't discuss the case?!

Oh, you can discuss the case. You just have to follow the rules of the forum (the ones Heymom just posted). There was no intruder.

 

[CoreyRocks]

at least two that the PD commissioned did not come back with a match for Patsy and two who were instructed by the defence

You don't know neither do i whether or not there was an intruder , its not been proved either way.

oh no not only 3 but any number of people could have

There wasn't any intruder. Also intruder theories cannot be discussed here. Read the rules. No intruder so no discussion about an intruder per the WS owner.

 

[BBB167893]

Who said Patsy wrote the note? that is pure speculation and has not been proved as a fact.

Given that it's not an exact science, the only way you could prove it as "fact" is through a confession or an eyewitness. But since it's since been proven that there was no intruder, that only leaves the three other family members. She was the one nobody could rule her out.

But as to who said she wrote the note, Chet Ubowski, Leonard Speckin, Cina Wong, Gideon Epstein, Larry Ziegler, Richard Williams, Tom Miller. That's who I can remember.

 

[BBB167893]

Considering handwriting and linguistic analysis are not exact sciences, and because most work in this area is devoted to finding forgeries not linking disguised handwriting to subjects, it's not really something that can be "proved as fact." Plenty of people more qualified than you or I think it is incredibly likely she did.

From my files:
"The Colorado Bureau of Investigation, after studying several of Patsy’s handwriting exemplars, noted “evidence which indicates the questioned handwritten note may have been written by [Patricia Ramsey], but the evidence falls short of that necessary to support a definite conclusion.” Chet Ubowski of the CBI, who was being asked to make the call of a lifetime, couldn’t do it with courtroom certainty. Privately, however, Ubowski, who had made the early discovery that Patsy’s handwriting was consistent with the ransom note on twenty-four of the twenty-six alphabet letters, had recently told one detective, “I believe she wrote it.”"
(ST, p152)

"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

Rashomon
Wolnzach, Germany Reply »
|Report Abuse |#112 40 min ago

[snip]

Michelle Dresbold - Handwriting Analysis Expert Trained by the U. S. Secret Service:

“The chances that Patsy Ramsey did not write the ransom note are about 2 percent.”

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner:

“Based on the presently available documents, there are strong indications that Patsy Ramsey is the author of the ransom note.”

David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner:

“There are far too many similarities and consistencies revealed in the handwriting of Patsy Ramsey and
the ransom note for it to be coincidence. In light of the number of comparisons and similarities between Patsy Ramsey and the ransom note writer (51), the chances of a third party also sharing the same characteristics is astronomical. In my professional opinion Patsy Ramsey is the ransom note writer.”

Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents:

“Based upon available exemplars compared to the purported "ransom" note in the JonBenét Ramsey murder, the handwriting is probably that of Patsy Ramsey.”

Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert:

Chet Ubowski wrote, "This handwriting showed indications that the writer was Patsy Ramsey.'' He is said to have found 24 of 26 letters in the ransom note which matched exemplars from Patsy Ramsey.

Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner:

“I have made careful examination and comparison of the ‘ransom’ note and the exemplars of Patsy Ramsey. I have reached the conclusion that the handwritings and ‘ransom’ note were very probably written by the same person…it is my professional opinion that Patsy Ramsey very likely wrote the ‘ransom’ note.”

Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner:

“It was determined and is still determined by myself that Patsy Ramsey is the writer of the ransom note.”

Beautiful, DFF. My only gripe is that, if it were me, I'd have left David Liebman off that list. He cannot be trusted.

 

[BBB167893]

As far as the Cina Wong comparisons go, Patsy's q is one of the best examples. It's pretty distinctive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does anyone here know anyone who writes their "q" like a "8?" I sure don't!

 

[BBB167893]

Thank you for all of your notes, DFF. One might be able to argue against an individual, but when taken collectively, it makes any argument pretty weak.

They're all good, but I've always thought this one stands out as especially great:
"The Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." (ST, hb, p. 200/201)

He goes into more detail here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leonard+speckin