Separating FACT from fiction

[kanzz]

It matters in as much as all the evidence matters, and seeing as this thread is dedicated to separating fact from fiction, it matters in that respect too.

You're right. It does. And I apologize that my response might have sounded flip. Truth is, I do not know if it was one blanket or two. That part of my post was just an edited C/P from earlier in the thread.

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

I'm not aware there were two blankets as you state, just the one left behind on the floor

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi, Tortoise. The article kanzz linked says, "There, police recovered two blankets, a piece of wire, a pink Barbie nightgown and some broken glass - all of which police later collected as evidence."

The article got that information from the the search warrant inventory list (http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant09.gif). The two blankets are listed as items 5KKY and 11KKY.

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you otg!

So one was from the wine cellar, and the other was the one John covered her with by the Christmas tree. That makes sense.

 

[Tortoise]

You know looking at that list, I would say from the item descriptions, the wire that was recovered from near the body was in the lounge and not the wine cellar.

 

[otg]

Thank you otg!

So one was from the wine cellar, and the other was the one John covered her with by the Christmas tree. That makes sense.

That would be my interpretation based on the order of items listed in the inventory. I think the wording in the Daily Camera articles is misleading -- implying the two were found together along with other items recovered in the WC.

There are other things in the article that might be questionable. One thing is that it says (pertinent to recent discussions), "Christmas day was warm and sunny for the most part, and JonBenét and her brother each received new bicycles that their mother picked out from University Bicycles downtown." Ok. :thinking:

 

[Tortoise]

That would be my interpretation based on the order of items listed in the inventory. I think the wording in the Daily Camera articles is misleading -- implying the two were found together along with other items recovered in the WC.

There are other things in the article that might be questionable. One thing is that it says (pertinent to recent discussions), "Christmas day was warm and sunny for the most part, and JonBenét and her brother each received new bicycles that their mother picked out from University Bicycles downtown." Ok. :thinking:

Yes, I'd put that firmly in the fiction pile.

 

[Sophiavee]

Anyone else wondering about previous sexual abuse was by someone who knew what they were doing.? Enough not to break her hymen which would not be a child rather more a grownup.

 

[k-mac]

Anyone else wondering about previous sexual abuse was by someone who knew what they were doing.? Enough not to break her hymen which would not be a child rather more a grownup.

the sexual abuse is very hard to put into fact or fiction thread not that it isnt crucial but so open ended. :banghead:
from the AR the ME concluded it was indeed fact. The damage downstairs to JBR was chronic and acute.

the fact the R's won't have a bar of the news JBR was abused when its been proven physically she was is beyond strange and points yet again to not wanting to face and or admit the truth. but what is the truth?
gosh if only we could answer this question.:tantrum:

the only viable options are
1/. JR was molesting JBR and a can of worms opened christmas night on discovery of this.

2/. PR was physically assulting JBR with douching about the hygiene issues and a terrible fit of rage came over her that night.

3/. BR and JBR had a incestreous love hate relationship that got way out of hand.

all ugly to think about . but from an experience i have posted on a different thread its not out of the realm of possibility any of these scenarios including this sort of abuse is possible from a young boy and can not be ruled out.

just enough contamination and chaos to keep us guessing. brilliant :scared:

 

[Miz Adventure]

Yes, the Ramseys knew they could walk out of the house on the 26th with the remnants of the cord, duct tape etc., in their pockets or in PR's purse/handbag. They were not suspects at that time and knew they would not be searched.

And as for JR's golf bag - you can see it positioned just outside the cellar door in crime scene photos - all kinds of incriminating stuff could have been concealed there. And....are we meant to believe he wanted to play golf right after his daughter had been horribly murdered in their home?!

 

[Curiousmind48]

Has anyone considered the possibility that jonbenet tried to kill herself that night, that she was so distraught that she stood on a chair and tied a rope around her own neck? I know she was only six, but even young children can be pushed to a certain limit and crack. Could patsy have found her daughter almost dead from strangulation and because that would blow the illusion of a perfect family, further staging might have taken place. Or the rope was so tight, it would not come off and it was clear she was in great distress and dying. Could someone have finished the job as a way to end her suffering? Of course, that doesn't explain the head injury. I dont believe an intruder was involved, but will say, the simplest explanation is often the right one.

 

[Ambitioned]

No, the autopsy findings don't support that. No eye bulging, no crushed windpipe, hyoid bone was intact... etc.

There was no intruder and she didn't hang herself.

 

[kanzz]

Has anyone considered the possibility that jonbenet tried to kill herself that night, that she was so distraught that she stood on a chair and tied a rope around her own neck? I know she was only six, but even young children can be pushed to a certain limit and crack. Could patsy have found her daughter almost dead from strangulation and because that would blow the illusion of a perfect family, further staging might have taken place. Or the rope was so tight, it would not come off and it was clear she was in great distress and dying. Could someone have finished the job as a way to end her suffering? Of course, that doesn't explain the head injury. I dont believe an intruder was involved, but will say, the simplest explanation is often the right one.

No. There are two things that would disprove this theory:

1) The AR states "Ligature strangulation".
By definition, ligature strangulation is a type of strangulation that occurs with the use of a mass that is not the body weight. In other words, ligature strangulation does not require suspension of the physical body. Instead, it requires the use of a cord-like object, such as a rope.

2) We also know from the AR that the blow to the head preceeded the strangulataion. Several medical experts have verified this.. and I agree. The details of the AR make it evident that the head blow was first, and she was probably unconscious when she was strangled.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Has anyone considered the possibility that jonbenet tried to kill herself that night, that she was so distraught that she stood on a chair and tied a rope around her own neck? I know she was only six, but even young children can be pushed to a certain limit and crack. Could patsy have found her daughter almost dead from strangulation and because that would blow the illusion of a perfect family, further staging might have taken place. Or the rope was so tight, it would not come off and it was clear she was in great distress and dying. Could someone have finished the job as a way to end her suffering? Of course, that doesn't explain the head injury. I dont believe an intruder was involved, but will say, the simplest explanation is often the right one.

No. No one has considered this possibility.

 

[condorchristi]

Looking at some of the posts here concerning Jon Benet Ramsey. I think one of the problems with message boards is that what is "fact" and "fiction" blurs with the additional users and commentary; either purposeful or innocently misleading. I like that some here have tried to list the facts of the case.

One question I have is this. I have heard that the ransom demand was the same amount that the father had received as a yearly bonus. Is that a fact or fiction?

 

[kanzz]

Looking at some of the posts here concerning Jon Benet Ramsey. I think one of the problems with message boards is that what is "fact" and "fiction" blurs with the additional users and commentary; either purposeful or innocently misleading. I like that some here have tried to list the facts of the case.

One question I have is this. I have heard that the ransom demand was the same amount that the father had received as a yearly bonus. Is that a fact or fiction?

Fact. or close enough.

The so-called "ransom note" listed $118K as the demand. JR's bonus that year was $118K + change.

 

[bye4now]

Not if this has been posted yet, but since they have DNA, cant they use that new process with NanoLabs? This company can do a composite photo from a DNA sample.

 

[condorchristi]

Not if this has been posted yet, but since they have DNA, cant they use that new process with NanoLabs? This company can do a composite photo from a DNA sample.

Wow, really? Do you have a link to them? I’d like to see how close they get.

 

[spooky24]

[/COLOR] . [COLOR="#2F4F4F"ThHoffmann-Pugh testified[U][/U] before the Grand Jury about JonBenét’s bed room. She was given
photos showed everything from her beds to her bedding, her TV, her videotapes, and her shoes. She was asked about the many hair ties scattered on the floor at the foot of the bed and in front of the closet. About the hair ties on the bed- that wasn’t normal. The ties were usually kept in a basket in the bathroom. Maybe one or two would be lying on the bathroom counter, but they were never on the floor, or even in the bedroom. Then there was an open drawer. The housekeeper confirmed to the jury that it was the drawer where JonBenét’s panties were kept. A new pair of underwear might have been put on JonBenét that evening, or maybe the drawer was left open from the morning. . She was always bathed in Patsy’s tub on the third floor, Hoffmann-Pugh told them. Burke was also bathed in Patsy’s tub, but lately he had taken baths father’s bathroom. She knew for sure, because his Legos were always at the bottom of the tub when she drained the water. She was also shown a photo of the decorative curtain treatment on the wall just behind JonBenét’s bed. One of the ties was undone. They also showed her a picture of JonBenét’s white thermal blanket which had many urine and brown-colored stains on it [I][/I]Looking at the comforter, you couldn’t tell that the blanket beneath it had been pulled off.[COLOR="#FFFF00"] The bed looked barely disturbed. Hoffmann-Pugh knew that to pull the blanket off, you had to remove the comforter??????They also showed her a picture of JonBenét’s white thermal blanket which had many urine and brown-colored stains on it. Some of them looked like dried blood ????????. [/COLOR] Then they showed her a picture of JonBenét’s bed, which looked strange to her. first remove the comforter, other-wise it would get messed up. Hoffmann-Pugh testified that whoever killed JonBenét knew where the blanket was that night and probably took it out of the dryer. [COLOR="#FF00000"] Next was a picture of Burke’s red pocketknife that the police found in the basement several yards from JonBenét’s body. It might have been used to cut the cord that was found binding the child. [/COLOR] Linda remembered taking the knife away from Burke several weeks before the murder and hiding it in a closed cupboard in the service area just outside JonBenét’s bedroom. Burke had been using the pocketknife to whittle without collecting the discarded shavings. [/COLOR] [/COLOR]

 

[bye4now]

Wow, really? Do you have a link to them? I’d like to see how close they get.

Hey there is the link to the company that performs this new DNA snapshot
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[spooky24]

John's bible was opened to Psalms 118. That is one creepy verse. No one has ever understood this-and never will.

One of knocks on this place is that people get so wound up for information they act irresponsibly. Why you people just can't understand that is still an open criminal case-and some things you just don't do.