The Sidebar - Harris Trial #3 *VERDICT - GUILTY*

[Inthedetails]

I might pop back in to the Nicole Lovell upcoming trial. I started following that case from the very beginning but as other cases came up, I haven't gotten back to it. Will see you there, I hope.

I will also be following the Moorer's, specifically Sidney will probably get another trial date after the new year, next up on trial is his wife Tammy, and their trial for the murder of Heather Elvis. I sat through the whole trial over the summer, and the jury came back hung. I was so, so, so afraid we would get a hung jury here in Cooper Harris, but glad that everyone on the jury eventually came to their senses. Can we move this jury to the Heather Elvis trial???

Other than that, there's is my little Slovenia friend, aka Angelika Graswald, who is accused of killing her fiance Vincent Viafore in a kayaking "accident" on the Hudson River. I dunno, I think that little girl is innocent, albeit her interrogation video is a hot mess and there was talk of some sloppy investigation, but I am probably the only person here following that case.

Anything else out there? I feel like I have trial withdrawal.

Oh yes, the kayak case. I was near the scene earlier this month, on a cold and windy day. I definitely thought about them. You're not the only person following that case. I don't know how I feel about her - sometimes I think she is a dingbat who is used to being "cute" and given a pass on anything she might say that doesn't make sense. Other times I think she planned that murder, or at least took advantage of his plight in the water. Yeah, I'll follow that one too. Strange story.

 

[rob]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...eady-beginning-paperwork-for-appeal/467213635

Ross Harris' attorney already beginning paperwork for appeal

--snip
[Kilgore] said after the verdict was read, Harris, who didn’t show much emotion in the courtroom, told them he could finally begin to grieve his son’s death.

“Ross didn’t say a word. Not one word about what happened in that courtroom. Instead, he recognized that now he can begin the grieving process that he’s not been able to go through the last two-plus years. And he talked about Cooper -- how much he misses him, how much he’s missed him since June 18, 2014, how much he’ll continue to miss him,” Kilgore said.

What the heck has he been doing while sitting in jail for 2 years? Was his case so complex that he met with the attorneys daily? Was he busy being the life of the party to the other inmates? Was he planning his future sexual exploits? or figuring who he could use his phone call time to call for phone sex?
WTH, I'd have been crying myself to sleep nightly, whether I had intentionally or mistakenly killed my own child in a horrible, painful death.
MOO

 

[krkrjx]

BBM: This is something you'd expect to hear from the loved one of a missing person whose body has finally been found after two years. JRH's kid is dead because of him. He saw him dead, touched his lifeless body. He then walked away.

So if he's held his grief in suspended animation for TWO AND A HALF YEARS, what was the 'glass case of emotion' we witnessed?

What's he been doing all this time? Pretending Cooper's not dead because of him? :thinking:

I want video with audio of RH saying that. Not second hand from Kilgore. I recall CA's attorney said the same thing about her "now being able to grieve."

She was in jail four years, he has been in jail over two years--neither had the time or frame of mind to grieve?

Sounds to me like Kilgore wants his client to appear as still inconsolable over the accidental death of his son. That's how I felt about Baez and his quoting a similar comment from [supposedly] his client.

 

[Magdalyn]

What the heck has he been doing while sitting in jail for 2 years? Was his case so complex that he met with the attorneys daily? Was he busy being the life of the party to the other inmates? Was he planning his future sexual exploits? or figuring who he could use his phone call time to call for phone sex?
WTH, I'd have been crying myself to sleep nightly, whether I had intentionally or mistakenly killed my own child in a horrible, painful death.
MOO

Yes, with grief it usually works the other way. It's almost impossible to carry on with daily tasks because grief overwhelms you. I've never in my life met a parent who lost a child who could pick and choose when to grieve.

 

[monkeypants]

Kilgore has showed more grief than RH since day one imo.

 

[arkansasmimi]

bit o/t

Peach Do you, or anyone else from Georgia, know if it's usual practice for one just convicted to be driven from court in a private car?

Catching up... sorry if repeat. Looked like an unmarked car. They were most likely taking him back to Cobb County since the trial was over and no reason to transport him back to the Glynn Cty jail. JMHO

 

[monkeypants]

I'm waiting on the D.C. One....that's my backyard.

I'm also interested in the Sherri panini one....

Lol papini it keeps auto correcting as panini...

She's the one in Redding that just disappeared...they think jogging.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The Baby Cooper case was the last national case that I followed closely in the beginning when there was media coverage on CNN, HLN, MSNBC, and NBC as well as local (Detroit) attention to the case. Now that the trial has concluded, I plan to focus on Michigan cases. In the near future, there will be the trial of Daniel Clay who has been charged with the murder of Chelsea Bruck who went missing from a Halloween concert in Frenchtown Twp. on October 26, 2014. Bruck's body was found six months later, and ME determined that she died from blunt force trauma.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-22-Frenchtown-Twp-26-October-2014-6-*Arrest*

 

[Seriously?]

Re: Diamond
http://www.kidsandcars.org/files/2014/08/2014-06-30-hln-drdiamond-heat.pdf
He referenced this case in a article published 06/30/14, less than 2 wks after Cooper's death. It could appear he had reached some conclusions without full knowledge of the facts of Cooper's case. Not good. I don't know how the defense could have overlooked this, and probably didn't. Makes me wonder if the prosecution was going to make a professional issue of it, as they should.
Although it's been mentioned here that he is credentialed in neurology, he isn't. He has a PhD in biology, with study in neurobiology and psychobiology. He's not credentialed to diagnose. Therefore, if he's not credentialed to diagnose yet names a syndrome and identifies those who are stricken by this syndrome, there's a problem.
The syndrome he named seems applicable to only children left in cars, based on the confluence of only two factors. So........to many folks, it seems more a function of memory and how our brains work rather than an identified syndrome. By example, a child is in the bathtub, doorbell rings and caregiver goes to answer the door, leaving the kid unsupervised. For whatever reason, the caregiver is away from that tub for too long talking to the landlord about unpaid rent, forgetting the kid. Even if the parent was negotiating with their drug dealer. The child drowns. This should fit his criteria- - - -deviation from routine and stress. Another scenario could include the child turning on the hot water, resulting in terrible burns. Same thing.......... Stressed caregiver thinks the child is sleeping and decides to - whatever - some deviation of routine - forgets to lock an outside door, gate around the pool unlatched and a toddler drowns in the pool. Same thing.
There seems to be a lot of subjective data to be considered in all these horrible deaths. I think that's one reason there isn't a large following for Diamond's "syndrome". While it's absolutely possible to forget, circumstances have to be evaluated in each independent case, right?

And in the cases posted earlier in this thread, the responsible adult was inconsolable after discovering the dead child. To me, that implies a strong emotion response to the child's death and likely guilt from responsibility for circumstances leading to the child's death.

I'm just offering this information to the conversation about his absence. I'm more inclined to believe RH disclosed something damaging during those interviews that his attorneys decided was best left alone.

 

[minor4th]

They are appealing the higher courts for a retrial. and in that new trial, they would hope to change some of Staley's rulings----like severing the sexting minors charges from the main trial, throwing out the phone logs because it was taken from him before it was legally warranted, and the defenses ability to openly question Detective Murphy about the search warrants and the application process for them....among other things.

If they got all of the above it would be e very different trial, imo.

Yes, there are some points that would make for a very different trial if reversed on appeal.

You mentioned a couple of major ones. There was evidence allowed in that I believe should have been excluded and potentially prejudiced the jury - like the testimony of the prostitute and most of the testimony about the sexting. I was shocked the judge allowed so much extremely prejudicial evidence when its probative value was questionable, at best.

Staley also made some incorrect rulings against the defense on hearsay - which essentially blocked them from eliciting any evidence about the flaws and biases in the investigation. It prevented the defense from legitimately impeaching Stoddard, the state's lead investigator.

Usually a bad ruling on hearsay is not going to be harmful error, but in this case those rulings had the effect of excluding a major portion of the defense case - and they were wrong; the statements were not hearsay and/or fell within one of the exceptions.

I have never seen such a pro-prosecution bias on so many significant rulings. I think Kilgore will have a robust case for appeal.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Does JRH stay in jail till the sentencing? Then move to a prison?

 

[katydid23]

Lol papini it keeps auto correcting as panini...

She's the one in Redding that just disappeared...they think jogging.

LOL< don't you love autocorrect. Every time I typed the defense attorney Lumpkin's name, it changed it to PUMPKIN.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, there are some points that would make for a very different trial if reversed on appeal.

You mentioned a couple of major ones. There was evidence allowed in that I believe should have been excluded and potentially prejudiced the jury - like the testimony of the prostitute and most of the testimony about the sexting. I was shocked the judge allowed so much extremely prejudicial evidence when its probative value was questionable, at best.

Staley also made some incorrect rulings against the defense on hearsay - which essentially blocked them from eliciting any evidence about the flaws and biases in the investigation. It prevented the defense from legitimately impeaching Stoddard, the state's lead investigator.

Usually a bad ruling on hearsay is not going to be harmful error, but in this case those rulings had the effect of excluding a major portion of the defense case - and they were wrong; the statements were not hearsay and/or fell within one of the exceptions.

I have never seen such a pro-prosecution bias on so many significant rulings. I think Kilgore will have a robust case for appeal.

The major hurdle the DT will have is the extensive judicial experience of this long time judge. She has been a Cobb County Superior judge and was the chief judge for several years. So I think she knew what judicial latitude she had to support her rulings. I bet she knew what appeals were looming and she knew what the prevailing cases and decisions were that could give her cover. I doubt she made many judicial errors or reversible decisions, even if they seemed biased. If she had some legal foundation former decisions, which I believe she had or she would not have ruled that way, then it will be hard to get a new trial, imo.

JMO :cow:

 

[MsMtOlympus]

I *think* user Equally Divided (sorry if I don't remember correctly, been reading as fast as I can - so much thread to catch up on since the verdict came in, whew!) brought up the subject of the possibility of RH having Borderline Personality Disorder. I had a close, childhood friend for years with BPD and from both personal experience and research on the subject I don't think he has it. BPD sufferers typically have outward anger issues (i.e. not deep-seated passive-aggressive anger which I believe RH has in spades towards Leanne) and viciously lash out, usually with no rational reason, at loved ones. Verbal and sometimes physical abuse is common with this disorder as their unpredictable mood swings in combination with a distorted perspective make them view others as enemies (and the closer you are to them, the more susceptible you are to being accused of trying to abandon them, lying to them, etc.). I never got the sense that RH was someone with these traits.

Now Narcissistic Personality Disorder I can TOTALLY see. (And my inner-armchair psychiatrist agrees. :winko

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...onality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20025568

 

[arkansasmimi]

Looks like RH was just returned to Cobb County today. So they must have been taking him back to wherever he was being kept during trial yesterday....

Harris back in Cobb jail
MDJ Staff 2 hrs ago (0)

The day after a jury found him guilty of eight charges, including three counts of murder related to the death of his 22-month-old son, Justin Ross Harris returned to the Cobb jail from Brunswick, where his trial was being held for the last six weeks.

[video=twitter;798599567856041984]https://twitter.com/mdjonline/status/798599567856041984[/video]

 

[MsMtOlympus]

Forgot to add that whether a personality disorder is present or not I maintain my personal opinion of Harris's actions (guilty of malice murder). Just surprised NPD wasn't used as a defense tactic is all.

 

[TexMex]

Holloway (Georgia attorney) periscope from yesterday

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1eaKblVYqqnJX#

Discussion of what happens post verdict among other topics
Says it'll be 4-5 years before any appeal will be before a court.

 

[Morag]

It seems to me that a "few dozen" deaths among +/- 23million children is even rarer than that sounds.

Considering that each of those kids was properly removed from their car seats dozens-at least- of times every year, the incidence of occurrence is incredibly much rarer.

23million children times 50+ removals means only 38 victims in well over 2billion possible forgettings (probably many more).

It is almost incalculably rare. So the problem is the parent, not a society that doesn't believe it can happen to them. Hot car deaths are astronomically uncommon because people don't forget their babies like that. We don't have to worry ourselves over it, because we're not going to worry about those one in a billion happenings. We don't need some massive societal 'movement' to prevent it - it's just what a parent or caregiver does.

And if you're the kind of parent who can forget your baby in a hot car, then you're also the kind of parent who will forget the baby in the bathtub.

In other words, if you're a person who could forget your baby, there's nothing society can do to keep you from it.

 

[katydid23]

It seems to me that a "few dozen" deaths among +/- 23million children is even rarer than that sounds.

Considering that each of those kids was properly removed from their car seats dozens-at least- of times every year, the incidence of occurrence is incredibly much rarer.

23million children times 50+ removals means only 38 victims in well over 2billion possible forgettings (probably many more).

It is almost incalculably rare. So the problem is the parent, not a society that doesn't believe it can happen to them. Hot car deaths are astronomically uncommon because people don't forget their babies like that. We don't have to worry ourselves over it, because we're not going to worry about those one in a billion happenings. We don't need some massive societal 'movement' to prevent it - it's just what a parent or caregiver does.

And if you're the kind of parent who can forget your baby in a hot car, then you're also the kind of parent who will forget the baby in the bathtub.

In other words, if you're a person who could forget your baby, there's nothing society can do to keep you from it.

I think there are circumstances where FBS can kick in, even if you are a loving caretaker. One needs to be able to recognize the circumstances that could create it.

My Mom came to stay with us when our second child was born because my husband had to take a job in London for 6 weeks. And she was going to specifically help with dropping off/picking up my 4 yr old to and from preschool and play dates. Very occasionally she took our infant along for the ride. Because it was 'out of the routine' and because she had heard about a tragic hot car death where a grandmother forgot, my mother was concerned about her own ability to remember. It was unusual for her to drive babies around anymore. :baby:

So we used the teddy bear in the baby seat method. And we thought we made it up ourselves. LOL She used to keep a hot pink giant Teddy in our daughters infant seat and removed it when the baby came for a ride too. And she'd put it up in the front passenger seat so she knew both kids were there with her.

I never thought I needed it, but I did it because by then my son loved the fun routine of Pinkie riding along with him every day.

Anyway, my Mom is a very loving nurturing grandmother. But it was not a normal routine for her to have a 6 wk old infant with her in the car so Pinkie served an important role in keeping my baby girl safe.

 

[monkeypants]

LOL< don't you love autocorrect. Every time I typed the defense attorney Lumpkin's name, it changed it to PUMPKIN.

Haaaaaaa I'm sure he's used to that one