WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[Roselvr]

We lose our primary teeth 5-7 giving rise to the tooth fairy.

Yes, we lose teeth, but I'm correct, we're born with all of our teeth.
Why do we have more than one set of teeth when we are born?

 

[Alleykins]

We lose our primary teeth 5-7 giving rise to the tooth fairy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_tooth_development

((bbm))

Tooth development or odontogenesis is the complex process by which teeth form from embryonic cells, grow, and erupt into the mouth. For human teeth to have a healthy oral environment, all parts of the tooth must develop during appropriate stages of fetal development. Primary (baby) teeth start to form between the sixth and eighth week of prenatal development, and permanent teeth begin to form in the twentieth week.[SUP][1][/SUP] If teeth do not start to develop at or near these times, they will not develop at all, resulting in hypodontia or anodontia.

 

[mrseeker]

It still doesn't mean he is not from Iranian decent which is my theory. And with people eating food from all over the country if not the world, and drinking bottled water, how accurate are isotopes in modern man? Basically they have him potentially all over the midwest and across the south. Not a clear picture.

 

[Bit of hope]

I skimmed through some of the information compiled by coldcaseman.
It was mentioned Lyle was seen pacing along the road. It makes me think he might have been waiting for someone to show up, and when they didn't, he killed himself.
Or, he could have been anxious and just pacing nervously.

or he was considering throwing himself under a truck but decided not to take his life like that.

 

[Bit of hope]

Where can I find the Isotope findings?

 

[carbuff]

This article about teeth and isotopes was posted in another thread: http://phys.org/news/2014-07-teeth-body-tale.html#jCp

It's about lead isotopes specifically but other isotopes would follow the same general pattern.

 

[Roselvr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_tooth_development

((bbm))

Tooth development or odontogenesis is the complex process by which teeth form from embryonic cells, grow, and erupt into the mouth. For human teeth to have a healthy oral environment, all parts of the tooth must develop during appropriate stages of fetal development. Primary (baby) teeth start to form between the sixth and eighth week of prenatal development, and permanent teeth begin to form in the twentieth week.[1] If teeth do not start to develop at or near these times, they will not develop at all, resulting in hypodontia or anodontia.

Thanks Alley!

It still doesn't mean he is not from Iranian decent which is my theory. And with people eating food from all over the country if not the world, and drinking bottled water, how accurate are isotopes in modern man? Basically they have him potentially all over the midwest and across the south. Not a clear picture.

I feel his heritage is a European mix. Have you read the Reddit thread about his heritage where they break everything down?

Where can I find the Isotope findings?

Lyle Stevik Isotope results on google drive

Summary
Measured oxygen stable isotope ratios of sequential hair segments from the decedent exhibited variation throughout the 12 months preceding the death of the individual, suggesting he had likely moved or traveled multiple times within that period. The measured stable oxygen isotope ratios were used to predict two regions within the continental USA where the individual might have resided in the months preceding his death. At the time of death, the oxygen isotope ratio data for the decedent's hair were not consistent with values expected for a resident of Amanda Park, Washington. The isotopic evidence supports the position that the individual was a traveler through Amanda Park at the time of death, coming from a region characterized by a warmer climate. However, the isotope record observed in the hair 1-2 months before death WAS consistent with a resident of Amanda Park, Washington.

When placed into geographic information system (GIS) region-of-region models, interpretation of the measured oxygen isotope ratios predicted geographical regions across the continental USA consistent with places where the individual could have resided before death. Measured stable oxygen isotope ratio values of hair sample EV-389 predicted that:

(1) The individual lead a transient lifestyle in the 12 months before death and was traveling within a month prior to his death; and

(2) Approximately 1-2 months prior to death, the individual resided in a region ("Iso-Region 1") consistent with portions of the Pacific Coast states, INCLUDING Gray's Harbor County in Washington, plus some Western States (extreme Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and extreme Western Oklahoma), some Mid West States, and some North East States, as well as portions of Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia and

(3) Approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death and also 11 to 12 months prior to death, the individual resided in a region ("Iso-Region 2") characterized by a warmer climate then "Iso-Region 1", which is consistent with California, Southern Arizona and New Mexico, Western Texas and Oklahoma, plus portions of several Mid West states and North East states as well as Southern states (Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and extreme Northern Georgia.


________ TOOTH ISOTOPES _________


oxygen isotope analysis of enamel collected from the molar provided information on the decedent's residence during his childhood. The measure oxygen stable isotope ratios of tooth sample EV-387 WERE NOT CONSISTENT with values expected for a resident of Amanda Park, Washington. The enamel oxygen isotopes predict that the decedent may have spent his childhood:

(1) In isolated portions of some West states, including California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the Great Lakes *notation, Canada included; and

(3) In portions of some South and North East states (Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire and Maine).


________ CONCLUSION HAIR ISOTOPES _________

In an initial evaluation of the data, the measured values of the hair suggests that:

(1) The decedent lead a transient lifestyle in the 12 months before death, likely making at least FIVE TRAVEL MOVEMENTS

(2) He had moved or traveled just prior to death from "Iso-Region 1" to a region characterized by a warmer climate, as indicated by an increase in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of his hair beginning 1 month before death. Higher values for hair are typically associated with warmer regions that are more coastal or at lower latitudes or elevations (see appendix 3 for spatial map)

(3) The individual was residing in "Iso-Region 1" during the time interval approximately 1 to 2 months before death and he moved to that region from a location characterized by a warmer climate. This conclusion is based upon the decrease in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair, as observed in the time period 2.5 to 2 months before death.

(4) At approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death, it appears the individual was residing in a region characterized by a warmer climate that "Iso-Region 1". He also resided in this "Iso-Region 2" approximately 11 to 12 months before death and possibly again 6 months before death, although the residence at 6 months would have been a brief duration.

(5) Between the periods of residency in "Iso-Region 2" approximately 11 months before death and again possibly 6 months before death, the individual MOVED or TRAVELED AT LEAST THREE TIMES. Evidence for this conclusion is found in the decrease in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair between 11 and 10 months, followed by an increase in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair between 10 and 8 months and then another decrease between 8 and 7 months. The increase included the highest values measured for the hair, indicative of a region/ climate that was warmer than either "Iso-Region 1" or "Iso-Region 2".

(6) One interpretation of these data is that the individual resided in "Iso-Region 2" for two time intervals in the 12 months before his death, but made moves from this region to regions with a cooler climate and then a warmer climate in the time period 11 to 6 months before death. Approximately 2 months before death, he left "Iso-Region 2" for a region with a cooler climate. - "Iso-Region 1". THIS REGION IS CONSISTENT WITH AMANDA PARK, WASHINGTON. However, he had moved again in the month before death to a region with a warmer climate than "Iso-Region 1". That region MAY have been "Iso-Region 2", but this cannot be definitively determined based on the isotope record available in his hair.

Irrespective of how correct the geographic interpretations of the isotope data are deemed to be, it is evident from the measured hair oxygen isotope ratios that this decedent was a traveler. During the 12 month period prior to his death, the individual had likely resided in at least two isotopically distinct geographic regions and made at least three additional travel movements of short duration, two between approximately 8 and 11 months before death and one within the month before death. In the next section, we evaluate where these regions might have been.


________ Iso-Region 1 _________

The possibilities for "Iso-Region 1" include areas within a geographic band - not a specific location. In theory the hair isotope data for "Iso-Region 1" are consistent with any of the shaded regions identified in figure 4 and include several states in the USA: Washington (including Grays Harbor County), Oregon, California, extreme Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, extreme Western Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, West Virginia, extreme Western Virginia and Maryland, Eastern Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and isolated portion of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine

________ Iso-Region 2 _________

At approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death, and also 11 to 12 months prior to death it appears the decedent resided in a region with a warmer climate ("Iso-Region 2"). The individual may have also RESIDED BRIEFLY in this region approximately 6 months before death. The predicted regions for these periods of residence include lower latitude portions of several of the same states predicted for "Iso-Region 1", as well as additional states in the South, Northeast, and Midwest USA: Texas Illinois, Indiana, extreme northern Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Delaware, and Rhode Island.

We note that Washington, Oregon, and Nevada WERE NOT INCLUDED in the predictions for "Iso-Region 2".

Just before death, the decedent appears to have again moved or traveled to or through a region with a climate that was warmer than "Iso-Region 1". As the oxygen isotope values of his hair did not reach a consistent value before he died, we cannot determine what states this region may have included.

There are multiple reasons why individuals move and travel to different locations in short time intervals such as the 12 months period represented by the decedents hair. We offer no explanations here. We note only that figure 1 and 2 are consistent with the individual having resided in a cooler climate region approximately 1-2 months before death, following a move from a cooler climate region; the decedent that again moved or traveled to a warmer climate region just before death. Figured 1 and 2 are also consistent with the individual having made at least three separate major movements or travels between 11 and 6 months before his death and possibly several minor movements as well. We cannot speculate further on the location of these regions based only on oxygen isotope ratios measured for hair. Perhaps other aspects of the investigation may shed additional insights.


________ Interpretations _________

Similarities between the isotope data recorded by the decedents tooth enamel and hair suggests that the individual may have possibly returned to the region where he lived during his childhood within the 12-month period prior to death (evidenced by similarities between Iso-Region 2 predicted for the hair and predictions for the molar)

 

[carbuff]

I am struck by this comment at the end:

Similarities between the isotope data recorded by the decedents tooth enamel and hair suggests that the individual may have possibly returned to the region where he lived during his childhood within the 12-month period prior to death (evidenced by similarities between Iso-Region 2 predicted for the hair and predictions for the molar)

 

[Bit of hope]

Thanks Alley!



I feel his heritage is a European mix. Have you read the Reddit thread about his heritage where they break everything down?



Lyle Stevik Isotope results on google drive

Summary
Measured oxygen stable isotope ratios of sequential hair segments from the decedent exhibited variation throughout the 12 months preceding the death of the individual, suggesting he had likely moved or traveled multiple times within that period. The measured stable oxygen isotope ratios were used to predict two regions within the continental USA where the individual might have resided in the months preceding his death. At the time of death, the oxygen isotope ratio data for the decedent's hair were not consistent with values expected for a resident of Amanda Park, Washington. The isotopic evidence supports the position that the individual was a traveler through Amanda Park at the time of death, coming from a region characterized by a warmer climate. However, the isotope record observed in the hair 1-2 months before death WAS consistent with a resident of Amanda Park, Washington.

When placed into geographic information system (GIS) region-of-region models, interpretation of the measured oxygen isotope ratios predicted geographical regions across the continental USA consistent with places where the individual could have resided before death. Measured stable oxygen isotope ratio values of hair sample EV-389 predicted that:

(1) The individual lead a transient lifestyle in the 12 months before death and was traveling within a month prior to his death; and

(2) Approximately 1-2 months prior to death, the individual resided in a region ("Iso-Region 1") consistent with portions of the Pacific Coast states, INCLUDING Gray's Harbor County in Washington, plus some Western States (extreme Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and extreme Western Oklahoma), some Mid West States, and some North East States, as well as portions of Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia and

(3) Approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death and also 11 to 12 months prior to death, the individual resided in a region ("Iso-Region 2") characterized by a warmer climate then "Iso-Region 1", which is consistent with California, Southern Arizona and New Mexico, Western Texas and Oklahoma, plus portions of several Mid West states and North East states as well as Southern states (Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, and extreme Northern Georgia.


________ TOOTH ISOTOPES _________


oxygen isotope analysis of enamel collected from the molar provided information on the decedent's residence during his childhood. The measure oxygen stable isotope ratios of tooth sample EV-387 WERE NOT CONSISTENT with values expected for a resident of Amanda Park, Washington. The enamel oxygen isotopes predict that the decedent may have spent his childhood:

(1) In isolated portions of some West states, including California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas or Oklahoma; or

(2) In several Midwest States, including regions along the shores of the Great Lakes *notation, Canada included; and

(3) In portions of some South and North East states (Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina border, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and coastal portions of New Hampshire and Maine).


________ CONCLUSION HAIR ISOTOPES _________

In an initial evaluation of the data, the measured values of the hair suggests that:

(1) The decedent lead a transient lifestyle in the 12 months before death, likely making at least FIVE TRAVEL MOVEMENTS

(2) He had moved or traveled just prior to death from "Iso-Region 1" to a region characterized by a warmer climate, as indicated by an increase in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of his hair beginning 1 month before death. Higher values for hair are typically associated with warmer regions that are more coastal or at lower latitudes or elevations (see appendix 3 for spatial map)

(3) The individual was residing in "Iso-Region 1" during the time interval approximately 1 to 2 months before death and he moved to that region from a location characterized by a warmer climate. This conclusion is based upon the decrease in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair, as observed in the time period 2.5 to 2 months before death.

(4) At approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death, it appears the individual was residing in a region characterized by a warmer climate that "Iso-Region 1". He also resided in this "Iso-Region 2" approximately 11 to 12 months before death and possibly again 6 months before death, although the residence at 6 months would have been a brief duration.

(5) Between the periods of residency in "Iso-Region 2" approximately 11 months before death and again possibly 6 months before death, the individual MOVED or TRAVELED AT LEAST THREE TIMES. Evidence for this conclusion is found in the decrease in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair between 11 and 10 months, followed by an increase in the measured oxygen isotope ratios of the hair between 10 and 8 months and then another decrease between 8 and 7 months. The increase included the highest values measured for the hair, indicative of a region/ climate that was warmer than either "Iso-Region 1" or "Iso-Region 2".

(6) One interpretation of these data is that the individual resided in "Iso-Region 2" for two time intervals in the 12 months before his death, but made moves from this region to regions with a cooler climate and then a warmer climate in the time period 11 to 6 months before death. Approximately 2 months before death, he left "Iso-Region 2" for a region with a cooler climate. - "Iso-Region 1". THIS REGION IS CONSISTENT WITH AMANDA PARK, WASHINGTON. However, he had moved again in the month before death to a region with a warmer climate than "Iso-Region 1". That region MAY have been "Iso-Region 2", but this cannot be definitively determined based on the isotope record available in his hair.

Irrespective of how correct the geographic interpretations of the isotope data are deemed to be, it is evident from the measured hair oxygen isotope ratios that this decedent was a traveler. During the 12 month period prior to his death, the individual had likely resided in at least two isotopically distinct geographic regions and made at least three additional travel movements of short duration, two between approximately 8 and 11 months before death and one within the month before death. In the next section, we evaluate where these regions might have been.


________ Iso-Region 1 _________

The possibilities for "Iso-Region 1" include areas within a geographic band - not a specific location. In theory the hair isotope data for "Iso-Region 1" are consistent with any of the shaded regions identified in figure 4 and include several states in the USA: Washington (including Grays Harbor County), Oregon, California, extreme Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, extreme Western Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, West Virginia, extreme Western Virginia and Maryland, Eastern Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and isolated portion of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine

________ Iso-Region 2 _________

At approximately 2.5 to 4.5 months prior to death, and also 11 to 12 months prior to death it appears the decedent resided in a region with a warmer climate ("Iso-Region 2"). The individual may have also RESIDED BRIEFLY in this region approximately 6 months before death. The predicted regions for these periods of residence include lower latitude portions of several of the same states predicted for "Iso-Region 1", as well as additional states in the South, Northeast, and Midwest USA: Texas Illinois, Indiana, extreme northern Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Delaware, and Rhode Island.

We note that Washington, Oregon, and Nevada WERE NOT INCLUDED in the predictions for "Iso-Region 2".

Just before death, the decedent appears to have again moved or traveled to or through a region with a climate that was warmer than "Iso-Region 1". As the oxygen isotope values of his hair did not reach a consistent value before he died, we cannot determine what states this region may have included.

There are multiple reasons why individuals move and travel to different locations in short time intervals such as the 12 months period represented by the decedents hair. We offer no explanations here. We note only that figure 1 and 2 are consistent with the individual having resided in a cooler climate region approximately 1-2 months before death, following a move from a cooler climate region; the decedent that again moved or traveled to a warmer climate region just before death. Figured 1 and 2 are also consistent with the individual having made at least three separate major movements or travels between 11 and 6 months before his death and possibly several minor movements as well. We cannot speculate further on the location of these regions based only on oxygen isotope ratios measured for hair. Perhaps other aspects of the investigation may shed additional insights.


________ Interpretations _________

Similarities between the isotope data recorded by the decedents tooth enamel and hair suggests that the individual may have possibly returned to the region where he lived during his childhood within the 12-month period prior to death (evidenced by similarities between Iso-Region 2 predicted for the hair and predictions for the molar)

wow!! thank you! I will read it tomorrow...going to netflix....and sleep... yes I think too that he is mixed European....but that is tricky...look at the beautiful people from Afgahnistan....dark hair, red hair..amazing blue en green eyes... If you ask my guts I think Lyle is more the Italien kind of type...

 

[carbuff]

We've had really close facial matches from Quebec, Italy, Croatia as well as American, so there's really no telling what his ethnic background might be. There are immigrant groups from nearly every country and ethnicity in the world in the US and Canada.

 

[Roselvr]

I am struck by this comment at the end:

Similarities between the isotope data recorded by the decedents tooth enamel and hair suggests that the individual may have possibly returned to the region where he lived during his childhood within the 12-month period prior to death (evidenced by similarities between Iso-Region 2 predicted for the hair and predictions for the molar)

Agree, soul searching, visiting?

wow!! thank you! I will read it tomorrow...going to netflix....and sleep... yes I think too that he is mixed European....but that is tricky...look at the beautiful people from Afgahnistan....dark hair, red hair..amazing blue en green eyes... If you ask my guts I think Lyle is more the Italien kind of type...

Didn't realize I typed that much lol
What I typed out was what was the most important. There is a lot more with maps that you really can't make out.

I feel his heritage is a European mix. Have you read the Reddit thread about his heritage where they break everything down?

Here are a few threads on it -
Striking eye color on a John Doe: Seeking your insight! [NSFW]
Balkan connection
A few updates on: Dental, Ancestry, Eating Disorders
Possible clue to narrow down the isotope testing results
Isotope Map
Lyle's Physical Characteristics
Was Lyle really circumcised?
Thoughts On Lyle's Ethnicity--Métis?
lyle's unibrow - According to research conducted by 23andme on a sample of 60,000 participants, people of European ancestry are 96% likely to NOT have a unibrow. Information found here: link

 

[dodgerchick]

Yes, we lose teeth, but I'm correct, we're born with all of our teeth.
Why do we have more than one set of teeth when we are born?

When I had an ultrasound with my first son (1989) you could see ALL of his teeth in his skull. Ironically, He had 6 teeth by the time he was 4 months old. He was like a shark. Lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[carbuff]

Agree, soul searching, visiting?

Yeah, entirely possible. Or maybe the funeral or wedding of a family member or old friend, or a family reunion, or something along those lines.

I was kind of picturing that he came home for the final illness and funeral of an older relative, maybe staying long enough to clean out the house or whatever, and then deciding he didn't want to go on.

 

[Bit of hope]

We've had really close facial matches from Quebec, Italy, Croatia as well as American, so there's really no telling what his ethnic background might be. There are immigrant groups from nearly every country and ethnicity in the world in the US and Canada.

You are totaly right, that's why I gave the example of the Afghanistan people...we are all a big melting pot (and the mixed ones are the most beautiful IMO)

 

[Bit of hope]

When I had an ultrasound with my first son (1989) you could see ALL of his teeth in his skull. Ironically, He had 6 teeth by the time he was 4 months old. He was like a shark. Lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Amazing, I never knew that....I learn every day.

 

[Alleykins]

When I had an ultrasound with my first son (1989) you could see ALL of his teeth in his skull. Ironically, He had 6 teeth by the time he was 4 months old. He was like a shark. Lol.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

My son didn't get teeth until he was between 9 mos to a year. I thought something was wrong at first because hypodontia runs in my family (congenitally missing permanent teeth). So far, no one one in my son's generation has that condition, but one of my great uncles had none!

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks, Rose, for the isotopes analyses results, I have no idea what I'm reading, LOL, but it will absorb eventually.

OT -that picture of the skull with the teeth in it is down right creepy!

 

[Bit of hope]

Agree, soul searching, visiting?



Didn't realize I typed that much lol
What I typed out was what was the most important. There is a lot more with maps that you really can't make out.



Here are a few threads on it -
Striking eye color on a John Doe: Seeking your insight! [NSFW]
Balkan connection
A few updates on: Dental, Ancestry, Eating Disorders
Possible clue to narrow down the isotope testing results
Isotope Map
Lyle's Physical Characteristics
Was Lyle really circumcised?
Thoughts On Lyle's Ethnicity--Métis?
lyle's unibrow - According to research conducted by 23andme on a sample of 60,000 participants, people of European ancestry are 96% likely to NOT have a unibrow. Information found here: link

Reading about this....thinking of my son and (ex) husband... unibrow (european just 96 %), cleaved chin, my son green eyes, my (ex) husband hazel/green eyes (and when he was tanned almost gold) pure dutch mixed in with ancestry balkan jewish blood....and an typical arish (I hate this word) mom with blond hair and blue/gray eyes and very white scin. I have the feeling we are going nowhere with this. They earlob is genetical determined....It is so much to process.... reading everything Turkish (the do the circumcise and totaly mixed people from balkan, black sea to Tunesie, Greek, Armenie and Iran etc and lots of them are quite white (if not been in the sun) or Israelian (from everywhere, and posibly circumcised) comes to mind. But that is my gut feeling and excluding the Isothope things..... (guess I just needed to react, but I dont actualy have nothing substantial)

 

[DakotaMayi]

Thanks, Rose, for the isotopes analyses results, I have no idea what I'm reading, LOL, but it will absorb eventually.

OT -that picture of the skull with the teeth in it is down right creepy!

BBM.


That ^^ :scared:

 

[Alleykins]

Okay, so it wasn't just me, LOL