CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #1

[MsMarple]

http://abc7news.com/live/

PC starting soon. They're doing mic checks. The guy speaking says they're on target for a 2:30 start time.

 

[CARIIS]

Fox

Educate us. I do not really know what half an inch of rain is going to do to a huge structure, already weakened, with no roof, to this whole mess.

Is this gonna be a horrid next step?

We all know "water" and forensics are a horrible mess

what does half an inch of rain translate to in the whole picture realistically


Is it gonna turn into more stuff collapsing, re burying all the stuff they have tried to remove??

Tia

 

[MsMarple]

I think he would be charged with at least 33 counts (as of now) of involuntary manslaughter because he did not intend for people to die (so it can't be murder or voluntary manslaughter). The construction he did inside without a permit and holding a party without a permit would be an infraction or misdemeanor. Here is how involuntary manslaughter works...

The elements of California involuntary manslaughter are:

1.You committed a California infraction, a California misdemeanor, a California crime that is not an inherently dangerous felony, OR a lawful act done in an unlawful manner;
2. You committed the crime or act with “criminal negligence”; and
3.Your actions caused another person's death.

Criminal negligence is more than just ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment. It occurs only when:

1. A person acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury; and
2. A reasonable person would have known that acting in that way would create such a risk.

http://www.shouselaw.com/involuntary_manslaughter.html#

100% agreement here! Like I said earlier, that so-called staircase alone is enough IMO to bring manslaughter charges aganst Derick I/A. And I hope any civil suits get filed ASAP in order to freeze the owner's assets.

 

[CARIIS]

http://abc7news.com/live/

PC starting soon. They're doing mic checks. The guy speaking says they're on target for a 2:30 start time.

At the point where it is scary every presser but grateful also

 

[Greybeard2016]

Any report of the cause of the fire?

 

[MsMarple]

Still waiting... the guy speaking to press is asking media to back off asking about the deputy's son who died in the fire during the pc - he says the family has been innundated from people asking for info.

 

[rsd1200]

Back in the dotcom days when housing first started going up, it was reported that people were parking their RVs at the long-term parking lot at San Jose Airport and living out of them, going to work each morning. I met people living in tents at one of the local parks. Even met one guy who was living at a backpack camping site at a state park. He would hike in and out about 3-4 miles every day and then go to work. He would change his clothes in his car. He said he didn't know what he was going to do when winter came. SF Chronicle has reported several times that SF can't get substitute teachers because they can't afford to live there, or anywhere nearby.

Here's an excellent video, Million Dollar Shack, about housing costs in the Bay Area from last year.
[video=youtube;SBjXUBMkkE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjXUBMkkE8[/video]

This is happening in other locations as well. Naples, Fla. for one. They have a hard time finding people to work in the businesses there. I've been going there since I was a child and the locals who have lived there all of their lives are having a hard time affording to live there now. To just casually say, well they should just move, is fairly uncaring and easier said than done. When they do move, it does not help the businesses there in Naples b/c the labor moved over an hour away. I've known folks all my life who could not afford to rent/buy even in my rural, fairly low cost of living, area. They live in rentals that are not what I'd deem safe, but were a roof over their heads. To come up with first, last, and deposit is easier said than done many times. Call them slum lords if you will, and yes, they probably are, but, if there wasn't a customer base, or need for cheap housing, slum lords wouldn't exist.

 

[Jax49]

Any report of the cause of the fire?

Not yet.

 

[CARIIS]

I think he would be charged with at least 33 counts (as of now) of involuntary manslaughter because he did not intend for people to die (so it can't be murder or voluntary manslaughter). The construction he did inside without a permit and holding a party without a permit would be an infraction or misdemeanor. Here is how involuntary manslaughter works...

The elements of California involuntary manslaughter are:

1.You committed a California infraction, a California misdemeanor, a California crime that is not an inherently dangerous felony, OR a lawful act done in an unlawful manner;
2. You committed the crime or act with “criminal negligence”; and
3.Your actions caused another person's death.

Criminal negligence is more than just ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistake in judgment. It occurs only when:

1. A person acts in a reckless way that creates a high risk of death or great bodily injury; and
2. A reasonable person would have known that acting in that way would create such a risk.

http://www.shouselaw.com/involuntary_manslaughter.html#

What I am curious about is in the context of building code ,as this was going on and on and on and on could they have closed it down? Or does it become this everlasting nonsense- that is my anguish if code people could REALLY do anything that could have stopped the progression of this pig sty, or is it a parking ticket

 

[MsMarple]

Any report of the cause of the fire?

Hopefully we'll get some idea. I read earlier that the point of origin was downstairs under the second-floor dance area. I don't know how accurate that report was though. My guess is electrical, maybe due to the sound system - imagine running three or four microwaves on high power while they're plugged into a 200 foot extension cord - that's the kind of wattage a sound system pulls.

Still waiting... final mic check...

 

[Rallibella]

Joining the thread - first off my condolences to everyone.

Having some experience in CA tenant law, I can say that the judicial system in CA HEAVILY leans towards residents - even in unlawful residences. Judges are very hesitant to evict anyone. Even if the local county tried to take the owner to court to have them evict these individuals, it's not a simple or quick process. It would likely take upwards of 6 months to get a court date, then you are dealing with having the authorities actually gain access to do the eviction, then the owner is responsible to ensure people don't move right back in...

While the city holds blame here, it's the overall process that is at fault. The owner and the residents here knew it was unlikely the law would be after them because that's not how things tend to work in CA.

 

[MsMarple]

Starting... Donna Watson PIO speaking.

 

[cvaldez1975]

exactly. there are still groups of RV's parked near the airport and all over town in various states of repair and im sure you heard about the infamous "jungle" tent city near Wal Mart on Story/Keyes. I pay 2800 for a 4/2 that needs upgrading BAD and its only that low because I have lived there for 5 years. it really sucks being stuck paying this crap.

Back in the dotcom days when housing first started going up, it was reported that people were parking their RVs at the long-term parking lot at San Jose Airport and living out of them, going to work each morning. I met people living in tents at one of the local parks. Even met one guy who was living at a backpack camping site at a state park. He would hike in and out about 3-4 miles every day and then go to work. He would change his clothes in his car. He said he didn't know what he was going to do when winter came. SF Chronicle has reported several times that SF can't get substitute teachers because they can't afford to live there, or anywhere nearby.

Here's an excellent video, Million Dollar Shack, about housing costs in the Bay Area from last year.
[video=youtube;SBjXUBMkkE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjXUBMkkE8[/video]

 

[Rallibella]

This DA lady is bothering me. Her speech is very... I don't know. It just sounds "campaign-y" to me whenever someone goes on the "no stone unturned" line.

 

[cvaldez1975]

this is true however urban areas tend to be hubs for the artists.

I can understand the child custody issue and being forced to stay in the area. But there are other places to live where housing costs are low and there are jobs. It may not be the dream of being some alternative artist, but artists start in places all over the US.

The thought of living there gives me the heebie jeebies. As a college student I lived in terrible places while working in resorts in the summer. We never thought of how we could die in those death traps we lived in.

Adults have to be more aware and say that it is not OK to live in something like that. But people out up a fuss when the govt tries to step in.

 

[MsMarple]

877-288-2882 - hotline number.
510-272-6180 for victim families.*

* goes to http://www.alcoda.org/victim_witness/contact_information

Available Services

The Victim-Witness Assistance Division has trained and experienced Victim-Witness Consultants to work with victims, witnesses and their families throughout and beyond the criminal justice process. They serve as the liaison between the victims, prosecutor, law enforcement and other criminal justice agencies. It is important to us that victims are treated fairly and remain an integral part of the proceedings.

Crisis Intervention and Emergency Assistance
Our staff will assist victims with an emotional crisis as a result of a crime. In certain cases, we provide emergency services such as food, shelter, clothing, medical care and transportation.

Resource and Referral Assistance
A victim of crime may be in need of assistance from other community agencies. We will help obtain appropriate services to meet the victims’ special needs by connecting the victim with resources which offer financial aide, emergency assistance, counseling and psychiatric services, legal assistance and assistance with medical and rehabilitation programs.

 

[LaborOfLobe]

Working with ATF to locate origin of fire
75% debris removal complete
36 bodies, ID'D 33.
DA is talking about an expert in "land and property use"
Mindful that it's a potential crime scene
Too early to speculate on charges, being methodical and looking at all potential evidence
The charges could be anything from murder to inv. manslaughter...can't say yet pending investigation
They will leave no stone unturned
Following up on every lead regarding this property or individuals in it
Set up a hotline #
Want tips and also have resources for family member's expenses (counseling, burial)
I missed the number!

 

[mistivon]

75 percent debris removal complete. 36 recovered. 16 families notified, 5 pending. 22 autopsies completed. Unsure on charges. Evidence being preserved. Could be involuntary manslaughter to murder.

 

[Rallibella]

Seriously, this press conference has become very political now. Anyone else feeling that?

 

[borndem]

Not to take away from that, but even if this wasn't arson, there was so much flammable wood and rugs and such that even a cigarette or match could have started it, there was lighting not up to code, and reported use of propane for cooking.

You're so right... I was thinking that it could have been a candle that fell over/on the floor/into a wastebasket, etc. There prolly were candles burning that night...

The owner/manager of that building is/are gonna be in court for a big class-action or individual wrongful-death cases for years, IMO. I'm sure the lawyers are lining up cases, as they prolly should. JMHO