Burlap and Forensics

[PositiveLight]

I think the killer used burlap because it blends in with the landscape. It may be why he chose to dump the bodies during the summer months. Full foilage.

I agree!
I'm just shocked no one ever smelled anything? Wind currents can pick up odors and travel for a good distance.
Not trying to be gross here, but being a nurse, I know what decomp smells like. You KNOW something or someone is deceased.
But I do agree LISK timed his kills for the summer months so decomp was quicker and chose the area because it was desolate.
It makes me want to think of how older people go to Florida during the winter. IMHO LISK has the cash to travel for long periods of time. Maybe retired early with property in many states. Or is able to work from home on his own pace.
I do think he keeps trophies too. MOO but I think he's either well off, old money, or lives a minimalist life. I think he keeps to himself with occasional dating. But maybe nothing too serious to interfere with his dark passenger.
The burlap may have something to do with his business. I think he runs it mainly from home or is seldom seen at the business, at least during working hours.
All MOO of course. But I would think it makes more sense and easier to move if the body was wrapped vs. in a bag.

 

[PositiveLight]

I have had those same exact thoughts. The Texas killing fields is said to have had several whom prowled together and the like, seems like a plausible thought, and that LE has been so hush and on the backside because of the same problems with LIs LE. So sad for all these women who lost there lives because they hurt and looked to the lows of life to get by. [emoji20]


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Yes it is very sad indeed.
It's even more sad that their murders aren't taken as seriously. And that some of the families are completely unaware their loved one has been missing for months. I hate when I see a missing person's case and it says last seen in like May2006 but not reported missing until December 2006. Those break my hearts.

 

[PositiveLight]

Speaking of summer, I wonder why there was no detectable smell from the bodies. Even a small dead animal, the stench goes pretty far. Of course the shoreline does have that low tide smell of its own. Was any trace of lime or quick lime detected in any of the sites?

I wondered the same thing before I read your comment!
Decomp is a smell all it's own though. It could be possible that they had experienced the odors so often they thought it was normal for the area. But weren't doctors living in that area? They surely would recognize that smell. And scavenger birds would be all over the area too. Didn't someone ever get curious during that time period?
I don't think he's stopped though. If it is a group then they have just moved their deeds to another area. Maybe SG was too close of a call and they changed locations. I just don't think SG was lying when she said that "they" were trying to kill her. "They" could be as little as 2 people. I think SG gave him/they a run for their money and had a lot of fight in her.
He/They have changed body dump locations or have found another way to dispose of their victims.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't think the smell would be odd for anybody driving down the highway. I've smelled the odors of dead deer, skunks, etc without thinking twice that it was something other then animals.

To me at least, the smell of decomp of a human has a much stronger pungent odor.

"Analysis of the gases collected from the different decomposing specimens revealed a clear chemical and unique chemical byproduct given off by each organism. Over the course of six months, Elien Rosier, one of Cuypers’s graduate students, was able to collect 452 organic compounds given off by the decomposing specimens. However, of these, eight compounds were only found in the flesh of pigs and humans, and five compounds were found to be unique to human flesh."

http://www.medicaldaily.com/indescr...ntify-unique-gases-emitted-decomposing-354024

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

To me at least, the smell of decomp of a human has a much stronger pungent odor.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/indescr...ntify-unique-gases-emitted-decomposing-354024

I was present when a body was removed from the cab of a truck on Vets Highway, maybe 20 years ago. I was 6 lanes across on the other side of the divided highway. It seems that a homeless person was taking winter refuge in a junk truck behind a repair shop and we at a deli picking up lunch. This was in April when it was discovered. The smell at 100 yards was unbelievable, we were all gagging and made a hasty exit from the area. This is like a dead raccoon x 1000.

I don't see how the GB4 went unnoticed by people driving by. I posted elsewhere that the bodies may have been covered with lime or something else to mask the stink.

 

[PositiveLight]

I was present when a body was removed from the cab of a truck on Vets Highway, maybe 20 years ago. I was 6 lanes across on the other side of the divided highway. It seems that a homeless person was taking winter refuge in a junk truck behind a repair shop and we at a deli picking up lunch. This was in April when it was discovered. The smell at 100 yards was unbelievable, we were all gagging and made a hasty exit from the area. This is like a dead raccoon x 1000.

I don't see how the GB4 went unnoticed by people driving by. I posted elsewhere that the bodies may have been covered with lime or something else to mask the stink.

Exactly!
Decomp is just the worst thing to smell. You may be right. There may have been lime spread on them to mask it some. But still. :sick:

 

[No it's not]

Exactly!
Decomp is just the worst thing to smell. You may be right. There may have been lime spread on them to mask it some. But still. :sick:

A combination of that, plus blending into nature, blending into means of transportation and possibly something ritualistic? How about a "sign of submission"?

'It later came to mean also a garment made from such cloth, which was chiefly worn as a token of mourning by the Israelites. It was furthermore a sign of submission (I Kings xx. 30 et seq.), and was occasionally worn by the Prophets.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackcloth

 

[Ms.Jules]

So it could be just about freaken anybody [emoji19][emoji17]


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[Ms.Jules]

So it could be just about freaken anybody [emoji19][emoji17]


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This was for this quote

I see "official" trucks in and out of the area at all hours. Bay constables, oil spill remediation and so on. Some are state, some Babylon Town, some county trucks too.

Sorry I forgot to hit quote [emoji58]


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[Ms.Jules]

It's funny you mention that because when they began to expand their search I thought for sure that more bodies would be found at the north end of the Robert Moses Causeway because for two summers in a row there was a horrible odor there.

I was going to say,maybe another reason for the location is wind tides and which direction the wind was traveling, maybe summer (for many reasons) wind tide is high and travels/traveled that direction. How close is Moses causeway to bodies?


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[PositiveLight]

A combination of that, plus blending into nature, blending into means of transportation and possibly something ritualistic? How about a "sign of submission"?

'It later came to mean also a garment made from such cloth, which was chiefly worn as a token of mourning by the Israelites. It was furthermore a sign of submission (I Kings xx. 30 et seq.), and was occasionally worn by the Prophets.'
ing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackcloth

I've wondered that too.
It does give off a vibe of a ritual/religious undertone. As if he is either punishing them for what he feels is a sin or he's trying to purify them in death. He's not done is the sad thing. He's probably stalking his next victim right now. This is why it is important to catch him/them before more innocent victims die.

 

[PositiveLight]

This was for this quote



Sorry I forgot to hit quote [emoji58]


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Unfortunately yes.
I do however think the burlap is tied to his business or he is around it all the time. Or was at least. Scary thought too. I'm sure though that when the perp/perps are caught everyone that knew them will say one of two things 1.) I just can't believe it! He goes to church and is a nice person (or) 2.) He/ they always made me uncomfortable and was weird,,
It is sad that we really don't know about our neighbors and what they are capable of. Would they even let you in if you stumbled onto their porch in the middle of the night beaten and barely alive..... would they even recognize you? Do they even know your name to call 911? Would they even open the door?

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

Exactly!
Decomp is just the worst thing to smell. You may be right. There may have been lime spread on them to mask it some. But still. :sick:

Regular garden center lime breaks down quickly and may show no or little trace other than the pH of soil samples under the discovered bodies, but they would have to be looking for it. The acidity of local vegetation can neutralize it fairly quickly. This is why you can lime your lawn every year safely.

The first weeks of a body breaking down is where the odor is strongest. Once the bodily fluids seep into the ground, the smell may be undetectable from even a close proximity.

Quick lime is what farmers use when they dispose of livestock remains. This is calcium oxide (CaO) and far different from what is used by Harry Homeowner around the yard. It has more odor stopping properties than a tissue decomposition accelerant and may actually preserve a body rather than break it down. It will ward off insects and flies as well as scavenging animals that attract attention.

Was it used by LISK? I've never seen any mention of it anywhere in what I've read so far. Quick lime is a commercial item, not readily found at home centers but available online (like many other commercial chemicals). The likelihood of regular lime being used is more probable, but that effectiveness would only buy a little time to mask a corpse.

 

[Salsa]

Does anyone know if burlap is transfer proof? Hair, carpet fibers, permeable substance, or other evidence does not stick to it. I have heard of no evidence regarding any transfer fibers of any material. Not one piece of hair. arm hair, caught in bag as they were stuffed in.

 

[Ms.Jules]

Does anyone know if burlap is transfer proof? Hair, carpet fibers, permeable substance, or other evidence does not stick to it. I have heard of no evidence regarding any transfer fibers of any material. Not one piece of hair. arm hair, caught in bag as they were stuffed in.

I believe someone on this thread said they use burlap on the floor in their sewing room because it picks up leftover thread, fabric etc. something to that effect. So that would be yes, it is a possibility of transfer evidence they may have found. I have a feeling we will never know..........


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[NY Ranger Fan]

Burlap will pick up and hold fibers, hairs, pieces of thread easily. But to sort it out after a year on the ground exposed to the elements and animal traffic is next to impossible and the killer had that in mind when he chose burlap. Great camouflage, biodegradable, not easily traced.

 

[Super Sleuth]

You're walking and you notice a big black plastic bag in the woods... curious? You're walking and might notice a burlap sack... maybe not so curious?

The burlap sacks are less suspecting than a big black plastic bag. Someone driving down Ocean Pkwy would notice a big black bag faster than a burlap sack. I don't think the killer just used them because he had them. He thought that out very carefully.

Either way, there should still be hair fibers on the inside of the sacks. At least DNA that can be traced back to the one same killer. And what about this "touch DNA" that can be done now? Is that useless in this case?

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

You're walking and you notice a big black plastic bag in the woods... curious? You're walking and might notice a burlap sack... maybe not so curious?

The burlap sacks are less suspecting than a big black plastic bag. Someone driving down Ocean Pkwy would notice a big black bag faster than a burlap sack. I don't think the killer just used them because he had them. He thought that out very carefully.

Either way, there should still be hair fibers on the inside of the sacks. At least DNA that can be traced back to the one same killer. And what about this "touch DNA" that can be done now? Is that useless in this case?

I don't know to what extent the bags were looked at by SCPD or even if the FBI did. The FBI has better resources of course. If I was out and saw a piece of burlap close to the water, I would regard it as a part of erosion control and let it go at that.

 

[MysticJynx]

I just have one thought that came up when they were discussing the burlap sacks and only having the one place to buy them on the island in The Killing Season. But they also noted how it could be a long haul driver. So maybe we should be asking from where did the Aquarium owner get his Burlap sacks from. Who makes them? where are they delivered from? What other bags may also be delivered by the Burlap makers? Who are their drivers do they have any criminal histories?
For example One company I found for burlap is http://nyp-corp.com/about-us. (I hope I can post this been a while since I have posted on here). There does not seem to be that many Burlap Manufacturers in the states. Any who just my thoughts and opinions. Take em or leave em. Smiles.

 

[Ms.Jules]

Burlap will pick up and hold fibers, hairs, pieces of thread easily. But to sort it out after a year on the ground exposed to the elements and animal traffic is next to impossible and the killer had that in mind when he chose burlap. Great camouflage, biodegradable, not easily traced.

Very true.
I'm starting to think that SK is familiar with forensics and body decomposition intimately, almost like his knowledge might be his work/assist in his work or he watches/reads on the subject. IMO

You're walking and you notice a big black plastic bag in the woods... curious? You're walking and might notice a burlap sack... maybe not so curious?

The burlap sacks are less suspecting than a big black plastic bag. Someone driving down Ocean Pkwy would notice a big black bag faster than a burlap sack. I don't think the killer just used them because he had them. He thought that out very carefully.

Either way, there should still be hair fibers on the inside of the sacks. At least DNA that can be traced back to the one same killer. And what about this "touch DNA" that can be done now? Is that useless in this case?

Idk unless LE spends the funds and utilizes the breakthroughs in forensic science, who knows "what" they can do/not do. Now that the FBI has now finally been able to step in (hopefully) these murders get solved and justice can finally be served. These woman, child and men deserve a name the killer(s) dead or behind bars. MO anyways.....


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