OH - Ohio State University Rampage, 28 November 2016

The event began with the reading of a eulogy for all those who are on the list, a reading of the individuals’ names, ages and the location of their death, followed by a moment of silence.
“In some cases, the deceased may have committed acts of violence against others before they were killed. Perhaps they were domestic abusers, perhaps they threatened or killed others. This possibility is not something to shy away from. The protest against police brutality extends to the innocent and the guilty alike, because we know that no matter the crime, justice and due process don’t come from a cop’s bullet,” Abidi said while reading the eulogy.

Among the names on the list was Artan. Those in attendance said they did not condone his actions, but some said they have compassion for the attacker, who expressed feelings of anxiety related to how he was perceived as a Muslim.

“You can understand where an act of violence comes from without condoning that act of violence,” said Pranav Jani, an associate professor of English.

BBM- Are you kidding me? An associate professor engaging impressionable college students to have compassion for a "lone wolf" radical who attacked 10 plus INNOCENT victims? AA's anxiety was perceived aka assumed. AA assumed he was being judged because of his religious beliefs. I personally don't care how AA was feeling, his feelings did NOT give him the right to mow down nor stab anyone with a butcher knife. How about teaching students how to deal with their "feelings" in a healthy manner? Ridiculous!
 
I interviewed the Ohio State attacker on the first day of school. It felt important. Now it’s chilling.

His tenor remained the same, but it was clear those examples saddened Artan and likely contributed to his fear to pray openly. He even told me the possibility of being shot if he prayed had crossed his mind. At the time, in the final stretch of a divisive presidential campaign, he spoke of his fears of then-candidate Donald Trump’s rhetoric toward Muslims, what it might mean for immigrants and refugees, what it might mean for those, like him, who practice Islam openly. How ignorance about Islam propels bigotry and hatred.

He said it is so important to travel and see different parts of the world, as he had. That if everyone could see the world with their own eyes, they’d be so much more informed and have less prejudice toward people who are different than they are.

But what he said about his wishes for open-mindedness and unity make little sense now given what happened on Monday, the terror he inflicted. His comments to me about his fears of a nation divided by hate and lack of understanding are now chilling, and what happened Monday has shaken me, as it has much of the Ohio State community.

I agree with the last paragraph. AA's attack did absolutely nothing to help with any of his grievances or wishes. AA traveled, had lived in 3 different countries. Obviously it did not help him. Imo, his attack only accomplished creating more fear.
 
I interviewed the Ohio State attacker on the first day of school. It felt important. Now it’s chilling.







I agree with the last paragraph. AA's attack did absolutely nothing to help with any of his grievances or wishes. AA traveled, had lived in 3 different countries. Obviously it did not help him. Imo, his attack only accomplished creating more fear.

And I'll add that his gruesome attack, which he himself claimed as islamic jihadist revenge, has done nothing at all positive for muslims, and somali refugees generously resettled in America. His actions reinforced, and magnified, every negative stereotype of muslims and somalis. Just like the St. Cloud mall jihadist. And many, many others too numerous to list.
 
And I'll add that his gruesome attack, which he himself claimed as islamic jihadist revenge, has done nothing at all positive for muslims, and somali refugees generously resettled in America. His actions reinforced, and magnified, every negative stereotype of muslims and somalis. Just like the St. Cloud mall jihadist. And many, many others too numerous to list.

That's their goal, and anti-refugee people are all for it. ISIS wants us to hate ALL Muslims in an effort to cause the West to bully Muslims back to their homeland so ISIS can control them (and have more young people to recruit). I personally refuse to fall for that tactic. I'll welcome refugees with an open heart rather than fall into the trap ISIS lays for me, hating them openly and blindly because there are those among them ready to do violence. There are those among all of us ready to do violence. Love and acceptance will show refugees that ISIS has been lying to them when they say the West hates them. OR, alternatively, we can openly hate and discriminate against them, driving them BACK to ISIS, giving ISIS more bodies to recruit and more anger toward us. Make your choice.
 
In my opinion, there is a profound difference between extending asylum, which should (properly applied) be extended to very few refugees in extremely extenuating circumstances, and throwing open the borders to any and every alien claiming refugee status who wants to be "resettled" here. Especially if those refugees have ALREADY claimed asylum in another country, and have been settled there for an extended period-- many years, in some cases. Such as the 2000 that Australia "wants" the U.S. to take off their hands, or examples like Artan's family, who had ALREADY been cared for under UNHCR status in Pakistan for SEVEN years. And NO, Artan and his family were NOT in a refugee camp in Pakistan-- links upthread. Resettlement should never be a "work around" for legal immigration, and IMO, has been vastly abused as an immigration "policy".

And further (IMO), religious organizations should have no part in profiteering from, or directing any activities related to "resettling" refugees in the U.S. States and municipalities should have the final say on whether they can, or are willing, to absorb and eternally support large volumes of resettled refugees. They should never be "dumped" on any city or state. Religious groups can have a place in this process, but should never have any administrative role, IMO. They can administer, direct, and operate NGOs outside the U.S. as they desire, and as the host countries desire. IMO.

These kind of policies are not "hate" for refugees from anywhere. It's prudent policy on a number of levels, not the least of which is safety and security for Americans, and U.S. economics. We (the U.S.) cannot accept enough war and economic refugees to make any kind of dent in the world situation, and our efforts and money are MUCH better and more effectively spent helping refugees (economic and civil/ war) in place in their own regions and countries. Our ridiculous and hapazard lottery system for refugees and resettlements only breeds more and more resentment and fraud on the part of those who will do anything to get to come here-- and once here, they NEVER return to their own countries, even when the situation they left improves.

Immigration (real, legal immigration, not fraud and illegal alien migration) is a very serious issue that affects many layers of our country if not managed prudently. Severely limiting refugees that can never be properly vetted, from regions where there is profound hatred of western lifestyles and terrorism, who never intend to assimilate to American ideals or lifestyles, is simply common sense and prudent. There are about 30 countries from which we should not accept any routine immigration or refugees, IMO, because it is simply not in the interest of America to do so-- and yes, many are middle eastern or north african countries. American needs should come before the desires of potential immigrants, IMO.

And before we proceed to take more middle eastern or north african refugees into the U.S., we need to have a serious national conversation about exactly "WHY" most of the wealthiest muslim-majority nations on earth DO NOT TAKE A SINGLE middle eastern or north african refugee into their countries. Not a single one. Why do you suppose that is?

Saudi Arabia, in one week, could solve the entire middle eastern and north african refugee situation. They have approximately 1.5 million beds sitting EMPTY waiting for the next haj. These have sanitation, water, electricity, air conditioning, hardened structures, and bricks and mortar apartment buildings. Sitting EMPTY 11 months of the year. In the muslim holy cities of mecca and medina, where refugees would not only be cared for physically, but would be in a place that is holy to them, in a culture that understands them and accommodates their beliefs into every aspect of life. This is where these refugees compassionately and ethically belong, IMO, not in America.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/14/mecca-hajj-saudi-arabia

http://www.ibtimes.com/hajj-2014-saudi-arabia-muslim-pilgrimage-big-business-1700108

Even the Hajj sites have not remained untouched by modernization. Pilgrims travel from Mecca to Mina, a sprawling tent city about five miles away, on the first day of Hajj. They later visit Mount Arafat, the site of Muhammad’s final sermon, and Muzdalifah, an open area between Mecca and Mina. But many of the routes are connected by a series of air-conditioned tunnels. And accommodations at the tent city are hardly rustic: Tour companies set up their groups in huge, air-conditioned tents. Some tour packages offer upgrade options like sofa beds.
 
In my opinion, there is a profound difference between extending asylum, which should (properly applied) be extended to very few refugees in extremely extenuating circumstances, and throwing open the borders to any and every alien claiming refugee status who wants to be "resettled" here. Especially if those refugees have ALREADY claimed asylum in another country, and have been settled there for an extended period-- many years, in some cases. Such as the 2000 that Australia "wants" the U.S. to take off their hands, or examples like Artan's family, who had ALREADY been cared for under UNHCR status in Pakistan for SEVEN years. And NO, Artan and his family were NOT in a refugee camp in Pakistan-- links upthread. Resettlement should never be a "work around" for legal immigration, and IMO, has been vastly abused as an immigration "policy".

And further (IMO), religious organizations should have no part in profiteering from, or directing any activities related to "resettling" refugees in the U.S. States and municipalities should have the final say on whether they can, or are willing, to absorb and eternally support large volumes of resettled refugees. They should never be "dumped" on any city or state. Religious groups can have a place in this process, but should never have any administrative role, IMO. They can administer, direct, and operate NGOs outside the U.S. as they desire, and as the host countries desire. IMO.

These kind of policies are not "hate" for refugees from anywhere. It's prudent policy on a number of levels, not the least of which is safety and security for Americans, and U.S. economics. We (the U.S.) cannot accept enough war and economic refugees to make any kind of dent in the world situation, and our efforts and money are MUCH better and more effectively spent helping refugees (economic and civil/ war) in place in their own regions and countries. Our ridiculous and hapazard lottery system for refugees and resettlements only breeds more and more resentment and fraud on the part of those who will do anything to get to come here-- and once here, they NEVER return to their own countries, even when the situation they left improves.

Immigration (real, legal immigration, not fraud and illegal alien migration) is a very serious issue that affects many layers of our country if not managed prudently. Severely limiting refugees that can never be properly vetted, from regions where there is profound hatred of western lifestyles and terrorism, who never intend to assimilate to American ideals or lifestyles, is simply common sense and prudent. There are about 30 countries from which we should not accept any routine immigration or refugees, IMO, because it is simply not in the interest of America to do so-- and yes, many are middle eastern or north african countries. American needs should come before the desires of potential immigrants, IMO.

And before we proceed to take more middle eastern or north african refugees into the U.S., we need to have a serious national conversation about exactly "WHY" most of the wealthiest muslim-majority nations on earth DO NOT TAKE A SINGLE middle eastern or north african refugee into their countries. Not a single one. Why do you suppose that is?

Saudi Arabia, in one week, could solve the entire middle eastern and north african refugee situation. They have approximately 1.5 million beds sitting EMPTY waiting for the next haj. These have sanitation, water, electricity, air conditioning, hardened structures, and bricks and mortar apartment buildings. Sitting EMPTY 11 months of the year. In the muslim holy cities of mecca and medina, where refugees would not only be cared for physically, but would be in a place that is holy to them, in a culture that understands them and accommodates their beliefs into every aspect of life. This is where these refugees compassionately and ethically belong, IMO, not in America.

Rbbm.
This is the part that i do not understand, why don't some wealthy Muslim countries take in more migrants and refugees?
we need to have a serious national conversation about exactly "WHY" most of the wealthiest muslim-majority nations on earth DO NOT TAKE A SINGLE middle eastern or north african refugee into their countries. Not a single one. Why do you suppose that is?
 
Because they don't want to become targets and a lot of them have financial ties to the region.
 
That's their goal, and anti-refugee people are all for it. ISIS wants us to hate ALL Muslims in an effort to cause the West to bully Muslims back to their homeland so ISIS can control them (and have more young people to recruit). I personally refuse to fall for that tactic. I'll welcome refugees with an open heart rather than fall into the trap ISIS lays for me, hating them openly and blindly because there are those among them ready to do violence. There are those among all of us ready to do violence. Love and acceptance will show refugees that ISIS has been lying to them when they say the West hates them. OR, alternatively, we can openly hate and discriminate against them, driving them BACK to ISIS, giving ISIS more bodies to recruit and more anger toward us. Make your choice.

I think it is more complicated than that. Islamic extremism began way before the reign of ISIS.
 
I think it is more complicated than that. Islamic extremism began way before the reign of ISIS.

I'm well aware how complicated it is and you're right, there were other organizations with the same mindset, the same goal. This is just another name for it. It applies across the board.

I have quite a lot of experience in this particular arena.
 
Because they don't want to become targets and a lot of them have financial ties to the region.

How is this any different than the US not wanting to be a target or the financial ties the US has with these regions?

Imo, it is nonsensical that a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia would not lend a hand to refugees from their own religious faith. I'm certain the Koran has many teachings regarding how one should help their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters.

A recent report from the U.K. shows assimilation among Muslims living in the U.K. is being thwarted by the oppression of Muslim women by their own husbands and extended families. Once again we see the word "isolation". This is not acceptable behavior in the US, by any means. How can a person properly integrate when their OWN religious faith does not support the basic core values of the country where they have relocated? On the flip side, there is no way I would be able to adjust to the common beliefs of a country practicing a radical version of Sharia Law. JMO.

UK Muslims Not Integrating: New Report

Moreover, Casey found that in some predominantly Muslim areas, she “met far too many women who are suffering from the effects of misogyny and domestic abuse, women being subjugated by their husbands and extended families. Often, the victims are foreign-born brides brought to Britain via arranged marriages.

They have poor English, little education, low confidence, and are reliant on their husbands for their income and immigration status. They don’t know about their rights, or how to access support, and struggle to prepare their children effectively for school.”

These women’s lack of education, isolation and subjection to their husbands could very well leave a group rich in potential anti-extremist sentiments powerless. Muslim women are often the first to realize the extremism is, most of all, extremely wrong, since they are the first to be its victims.

The combination of the two factors -- the distrust of Islam by non-Muslim British citizens and the oppression of Muslim women -- create the sort of environment that is most likely conducive to radicalization.

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/uk-muslims-not-integrating-new-report
 
I'm well aware how complicated it is and you're right, there were other organizations with the same mindset, the same goal. This is just another name for it. It applies across the board.

I have quite a lot of experience in this particular arena.

I dont agree that our best option is to open our borders to as many Muslims as want to move in here. I don't think it worked out well for France or Germany or Sweden or Brussels. I do not want to ignore what we should have learned from watching European immigration. JMO
 
In my opinion, there is a profound difference between extending asylum, which should (properly applied) be extended to very few refugees in extremely extenuating circumstances, and throwing open the borders to any and every alien claiming refugee status who wants to be "resettled" here. Especially if those refugees have ALREADY claimed asylum in another country, and have been settled there for an extended period-- many years, in some cases. Such as the 2000 that Australia "wants" the U.S. to take off their hands, or examples like Artan's family, who had ALREADY been cared for under UNHCR status in Pakistan for SEVEN years. And NO, Artan and his family were NOT in a refugee camp in Pakistan-- links upthread. Resettlement should never be a "work around" for legal immigration, and IMO, has been vastly abused as an immigration "policy".

And further (IMO), religious organizations should have no part in profiteering from, or directing any activities related to "resettling" refugees in the U.S. States and municipalities should have the final say on whether they can, or are willing, to absorb and eternally support large volumes of resettled refugees. They should never be "dumped" on any city or state. Religious groups can have a place in this process, but should never have any administrative role, IMO. They can administer, direct, and operate NGOs outside the U.S. as they desire, and as the host countries desire. IMO.

These kind of policies are not "hate" for refugees from anywhere. It's prudent policy on a number of levels, not the least of which is safety and security for Americans, and U.S. economics. We (the U.S.) cannot accept enough war and economic refugees to make any kind of dent in the world situation, and our efforts and money are MUCH better and more effectively spent helping refugees (economic and civil/ war) in place in their own regions and countries. Our ridiculous and hapazard lottery system for refugees and resettlements only breeds more and more resentment and fraud on the part of those who will do anything to get to come here-- and once here, they NEVER return to their own countries, even when the situation they left improves.

Immigration (real, legal immigration, not fraud and illegal alien migration) is a very serious issue that affects many layers of our country if not managed prudently. Severely limiting refugees that can never be properly vetted, from regions where there is profound hatred of western lifestyles and terrorism, who never intend to assimilate to American ideals or lifestyles, is simply common sense and prudent. There are about 30 countries from which we should not accept any routine immigration or refugees, IMO, because it is simply not in the interest of America to do so-- and yes, many are middle eastern or north african countries. American needs should come before the desires of potential immigrants, IMO.

And before we proceed to take more middle eastern or north african refugees into the U.S., we need to have a serious national conversation about exactly "WHY" most of the wealthiest muslim-majority nations on earth DO NOT TAKE A SINGLE middle eastern or north african refugee into their countries. Not a single one. Why do you suppose that is?

Saudi Arabia, in one week, could solve the entire middle eastern and north african refugee situation. They have approximately 1.5 million beds sitting EMPTY waiting for the next haj. These have sanitation, water, electricity, air conditioning, hardened structures, and bricks and mortar apartment buildings. Sitting EMPTY 11 months of the year. In the muslim holy cities of mecca and medina, where refugees would not only be cared for physically, but would be in a place that is holy to them, in a culture that understands them and accommodates their beliefs into every aspect of life. This is where these refugees compassionately and ethically belong, IMO, not in America.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/14/mecca-hajj-saudi-arabia

http://www.ibtimes.com/hajj-2014-saudi-arabia-muslim-pilgrimage-big-business-1700108

Is Saudia Arabia not a western ally? Is the Saudi royal family not close friends and business partners with the Bush family?
 
I dont agree that our best option is to open our borders to as many Muslims as want to move in here. I don't think it worked out well for France or Germany or Sweden or Brussels. I do not want to ignore what we should have learned from watching European immigration. JMO

How do you get to the conclusions you constantly seem to reach based on what people say?
 
How is this any different than the US not wanting to be a target or the financial ties the US has with these regions?

Imo, it is nonsensical that a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia would not lend a hand to refugees from their own religious faith. I'm certain the Koran has many teachings regarding how one should help their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters.

A recent report from the U.K. shows assimilation among Muslims living in the U.K. is being thwarted by the oppression of Muslim women by their own husbands and extended families. Once again we see the word "isolation". This is not acceptable behavior in the US, by any means. How can a person properly integrate when their OWN religious faith does not support the basic core values of the country where they have relocated? On the flip side, there is no way I would be able to adjust to the common beliefs of a country practicing a radical version of Sharia Law. JMO.

UK Muslims Not Integrating: New Report



http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/uk-muslims-not-integrating-new-report

We can't control what other countries do. We can't control what another religion dictates their women do. All we can ever do in regards to anything in our lives is control how we act and react and behave. Setting an example of love and acceptance (and no, not just letting anyone in willy nilly but following procedures) is the only thing we can do. Hate and discrimination has never and will never work. It never worked for the Jews, it never worked for the Japanese during the first wars, it doesn't work now for Muslims.


All JMO. <3
 
Rather than derail the thread with a protracted discussion of the nature of our U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia, I think a more relevant area of discussion is “how” did Artan come to be in the U.S. at all.

And that would be a thoughtful, pragmatic, and fact-based discussion of the Refugee Resettlement Program. An examination of the Refugee Resettlement Program would include how it has been, and continues, to be used for diplomatic and political purposes, and not for the “good” of the “refugees” or American citizens and communities. Artan and his family are the “poster” family for all that is wrong with our Somali “refugee resettlement” program and policies, IMO. He and his family should never have been eligible to come to the U.S. using the “refugee resettlement program”.

Any reasonably thoughtful American citizen should question WHY we continue to this day to import very large numbers of “Somali refugees” who are only distantly connected to Somalia and its violence, and have been resettled for many years in UNHCR asylum countries. Or even BORN in the countries their parent/s have sought asylum or refugee status in-- meaning, these now young-adults have never even set foot in the country they claim "refugee status" from. That means they are not refugees at all, but using the status of their familial connections to CLAIM refugee status for the sole purpose of circumventing legal immigration procedures.

Artan and his family are the perfect example of why this particular policy should have a lengthy and immediate moratorium. The answers to “why” people like Artan and his family are here under this program are very complex, and have little to nothing to do with asylum issues, or legitimate refugee issues they faced. There is a great deal of fraud in this program, as links upthread demonstrate. (Indeed-- the "family reunification" program for north africans was suspended by the U.S. for 4 years recently due to multiple areas of fraud.)

The Refugee Resettlement Program, IMO, and the way it is designed, administered, and carried out, is heavily responsible for creating the conditions in these insular muslim communities that produce radicalization, IMO.

IMO, we need an immediate and lengthy moratorium on the entire Refugee Resettlement Program. It will not solve “all” the problems of radical Islamic terrorism on our soil, but it’s certainly one of the pieces we can, and should, control. We should never just shrug our shoulders and decide that radical Islamic terror attacks are something we just have to put up with. We can substantially improve safety for everyone. IMO it’s deeply unethical, morally repugnant not to do everything we can to prevent radicalization and terror attacks of innocents on our soil. And there is a lot we CAN do.
 
Rather than derail the thread with a protracted discussion of the nature of our U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia, I think a more relevant area of discussion is “how” did Artan come to be in the U.S. at all.

And that would be a thoughtful, pragmatic, and fact-based discussion of the Refugee Resettlement Program. An examination of the Refugee Resettlement Program would include how it has been, and continues, to be used for diplomatic and political purposes, and not for the “good” of the “refugees” or American citizens and communities. Artan and his family are the “poster” family for all that is wrong with our Somali “refugee resettlement” program and policies, IMO. He and his family should never have been eligible to come to the U.S. using the “refugee resettlement program”.

Any reasonably thoughtful American citizen should question WHY we continue to this day to import very large numbers of “Somali refugees” who are only distantly connected to Somalia and its violence, and have been resettled for many years in UNHCR asylum countries. Or even BORN in the countries their parent/s have sought asylum or refugee status in-- meaning, these now young-adults have never even set foot in the country they claim "refugee status" from. That means they are not refugees at all, but using the status of their familial connections to CLAIM refugee status for the sole purpose of circumventing legal immigration procedures.

Artan and his family are the perfect example of why this particular policy should have a lengthy and immediate moratorium. The answers to “why” people like Artan and his family are here under this program are very complex, and have little to nothing to do with asylum issues, or legitimate refugee issues they faced. There is a great deal of fraud in this program, as links upthread demonstrate. (Indeed-- the "family reunification" program for north africans was suspended by the U.S. for 4 years recently due to multiple areas of fraud.)

The Refugee Resettlement Program, IMO, and the way it is designed, administered, and carried out, is heavily responsible for creating the conditions in these insular muslim communities that produce radicalization, IMO.

IMO, we need an immediate and lengthy moratorium on the entire Refugee Resettlement Program. It will not solve “all” the problems of radical Islamic terrorism on our soil, but it’s certainly one of the pieces we can, and should, control. We should never just shrug our shoulders and decide that radical Islamic terror attacks are something we just have to put up with. We can substantially improve safety for everyone. IMO it’s deeply unethical, morally repugnant not to do everything we can to prevent radicalization and terror attacks of innocents on our soil. And there is a lot we CAN do.

I don't really disagree with much of what you say here. I have no issues with a moratorium as you suggest. I said in a post awhile back we need to do a very good job at vetting. If there is a problem with the vetting process get it fixed. But that doesn't change my belief that we owe these people refugee status. It is our tax dollars, our policies, our greed that has displaced millions.
Someday it may be us looking for refugee status.
As for the Saudi / America-Bush relations, we can leave that for another day, all I am trying to do is bring the conversation closer to the root cause of the issues we are discussing. JMO
 
Ohio State attacker faulted 'moderate' Muslims in note to family

COLUMBUS, Ohio – A man responsible for a car-and-knife attack at Ohio State University last year left behind a torn-up note in which he urged his family to stop being "moderate" Muslims and said he was upset by fellow Muslims being oppressed in Myanmar, The Associated Press has learned.

Abdul Razak Ali Artan also told his parents in the note, reassembled by investigators, that he "will intercede for you in the day of Judgment," according to the investigative case file of the attack obtained through an open records request.

"My family stop being moderate muslims," says the handwritten note transcribed by investigators and found by Artan's bed in his family's apartment.

He concludes by saying he's leaving his property to his beloved "but yet 'moderate mother.'"

Somali-born Artan came to the U.S. in 2014 as the child of a refugee. He had been living in Pakistan from 2007 to 2014.

Authorities believe Artan's attack was partly inspired by an American-born cleric killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/0...ulted-moderate-muslims-in-note-to-family.html
 

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