CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[CARIIS]

I found a picture of the inside of the Dennys in Oakland. Looks like similar color walls, floors, and the picture of the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. I can't figure out how to post the picture here, but go to this link, and the first picture with the lime greenish colored walls is the one that I'm referring to.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...ved=0ahUKEwj3zfuflurQAhWowVQKHZJBCiAQoioIbjAK

Terrific sluething TY!!

 

[LaborOfLobe]

i just listened to fire victim Cash Askew's music on youtube, it's so gorgeous and beautiful.

Them Are Us Too, song called Eudaemonia

[video=youtube;hA2onxrh_9g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA2onxrh_9g[/video]

On the Them Are Us Too FB page, there is a post from December 6 that says something like "this is the last song Cash and I recorded together". Not an exact quote.

The song is called Angelene and it is amazing!

 

[CARIIS]

That picture disturbs me greatly. It seems like they are having a good smirky time

Hi Human

I agree- there was something that really bothered me about the pic. In the gut - and it is interesting the way you worded it-- my initial reaction was this is not a Dennys and it was taken BEFORE the tragedy.


And the way your worded is actually what struck me (but did not know why) and its true - this just does not "emotionally" look like a group of folks who just went thro some horrific part of living.

 

[Tricia]

This is about the fire in Oakland and the victims.

Do not get political on this thread. Your politics are not the topic here.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[alucardsdream]

There is a lot of justifiable anger about this entire situation. I'm definitely one of the people that feels a lot of contempt for Ion and I do think many of his actions were outrageous enough that he should be held accountable in a court of law. But no matter how much anger we have - at Ion, at the building owner, at the total system breakdown that put so many lives at risk - we need to keep in mind that there is a community in mourning right now. Emotions are high on all sides and everyone mourns in a slightly different way. I think the most important thing right now is showing support for all the innocent victims and their families. No matter who we feel is responsible, nothing will take away their pain right now. I know anger is a stage in the grief process but a lot of the families probably haven't reached that point yet. All we can do is support them right now.

 

[Jax49]

Apologies if this was posted already.

The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/11/oakland-fire-ghost-ship-last-hours/

Ohr, the doorman, had just left his post to walk down a hallway to the bathroom when he heard the voice of a young woman. Her tone was strange, questioning: “Is that a fire?”A moment later, another woman’s voice, a little louder, a bit frantic, but not a scream: “Fire, fire!”

Ohr heard the crackling and saw the eerie glow. He raced to his studio through the maze he knew so well, and didn’t waste time with the lock. Instead, he kicked in the door and grabbed the biggest of the fire extinguishers he kept near his jewelry-making equipment. Perrault, who lived next to Ohr, grabbed his own fire extinguisher. With a third resident, they faced the fire.

The extinguishers might as well have been squirt guns to the inferno swirling up the rows of pianos and Tibetan screens and cotton tapestries, then sweeping in waves across the ceiling. The back of the building was in flames. The three men dropped their extinguishers and ran toward the front, screaming “Fire! Fire! Fire!” every step of the way.

Ohr had made it back through the darkness to the place where he had started the night: the front door.

Those around him shined their cellphone lights on the doorway as he screamed, “The door is this way!”

The front door kept swinging closed, so Ohr held it open, still bellowing so his voice could be heard — “the door is this way!” He said he watched as 20, 30, 50, maybe 70 people fled the fire to safety.

“It chased people to the door,” he would later say. “It was terrifying. It was the most hellish thing I’ve ever seen.

“After two minutes, no one else came out.”

No firefighter ever found the main staircase. The one better suited for a tree house than a warehouse was consumed in minutes, officials would later confirm. The firefighters had no way to climb up, and the dancers and the DJs had no way to get down.

Absolutely heartbreaking details.

 

[JaimeSommers]

There is a lot of justifiable anger about this entire situation. I'm definitely one of the people that feels a lot of contempt for Ion and I do think many of his actions were outrageous enough that he should be held accountable in a court of law. But no matter how much anger we have - at Ion, at the building owner, at the total system breakdown that put so many lives at risk - we need to keep in mind that there is a community in mourning right now. Emotions are high on all sides and everyone mourns in a slightly different way. I think the most important thing right now is showing support for all the innocent victims and their families. No matter who we feel is responsible, nothing will take away their pain right now. I know anger is a stage in the grief process but a lot of the families probably haven't reached that point yet. All we can do is support them right now.

Ion and his wife should spend the rest of their lives behind bars. Those who survived should be treated with empathy and respect, whether they have forgiven Ion or not.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[MsMarple]

I read an interesting book called "The Rise of The Creative Class" which advocates attracting creative people to cities and what kinds of things attract them. There is data in the book to back up the idea that creative people are needed in a community for economic health. Of course all creative people don't want or need to live in a commune-type situation, but having a workplace where the synergy between the different disciplines can flow together is incredibly stimulating. I experienced that briefly in the studio I was renting. We had an open house with a street festival going on outside with live music coming in. I was working in my space and feeling "in the zone". We had guest artists exhibiting and the public walking through and interacting and asking questions. The level of quality of work I was doing was at peak level. It was all safe and permitted and legal and above board. If only we could have sustained it financially. I sure do understand the appeal.

I'm also intrigued by the idea of building with shipping containers. I've seen some lovely pictures of repurposing them for homes.

Some creative ideas here in trying to help preserve artist collectives in a safe manner. A new web site called "saferspace" is also trying to help the artist community From the site:

safer spaces is an attempt to organize for and with those wanting to respond to tragedy with care. while we weep for those lost in oakland, we are concerned about the endangerment & danger of the spaces in which underground DIY culture exists nationally. we believe that by organizing collective local and national efforts, we can see these communities flourish and see to it that this never happens again.

http://saferspac.es/

IMO that's a wonderful way to make use of members of the community who are professionals, like electricians, carpenters, etc. and want to donate their time helping artist collectives. I think if they are released from liability or at least partly released then many would step forward. Customize city codes specifically for warehouse collectives. Find an insurance company willing to write a policy.

On a personal note but relevant to the discussion, I'm older than the Oakland artists but am a musician. Luckily I don't depend on it to make a living, lol, but I'm very involved in the music community. We share some things in common but in different ways. We don't live together but when we get together for sessions and festivals we are very much like a big family.

I get what the artists and musicians in these collectives strive to build. In my case we actually have built a couple of venues for our music and more - but being an older crowd for the most part we not only have some money to invest we also found wealthy sponsors and managed to accrue enough money to create safe buildings. Of course, this is all in small towns in Washington. While I'd love to see fundraisers for building safe warehouses or even renovating them the cost of doing so in a city like Oakland is probably astronomical.

It seems like if a city can buy property to make a park then it could buy property for artists. It's not like these warehouses are in the middle of a multi-million dollar housing development. It would be similar to Habitat for Humanity I guess, but on a larger scale.

Anyway, enough dreaming for now - I'm rambling again. :blushing:

 

[human]

Apologies if this was posted already.

The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/11/oakland-fire-ghost-ship-last-hours/







Absolutely heartbreaking details.

What an article. I know many firefighters and marvel at their courage. Crawling tbrough that building looking for people to save knowing the whole time something could collapse on them.

Years ago a 9 year old boy perished in a fire by my house. He was hiding from the fire in a closet.

The firefighters at that fire talked about the grief even 20 years later.

Amazing brave selfless people

 

[Tony1902]

I do not wish to hang on the side of the landlord, since I know virtually nothing, but as the wife of someone who owns a condo in the Bay Area, I can tell you that it took us over two years to evict a tenant, at the cost of over $10k in travel & attorneys' fees & annoying communications. All to get rid of someone who was running an active *advertiser censored* site in a high-end condo despite signing a rental agreement that prohibited any business activities in the condo. A nightmare. The agency we used for the rental agreements alledgedly did a thorough background & credit check & still missed the red flags that appeared when I did a small amount of Internet research. My husband relied on them, much to his financial & emotional dismay.

 

[Jax49]

What an article. I know many firefighters and marvel at their courage. Crawling tbrough that building looking for people to save knowing the whole time something could collapse on them.

Years ago a 9 year old boy perished in a fire by my house. He was hiding from the fire in a closet.

The firefighters at that fire talked about the grief even 20 years later.

Amazing brave selfless people

This quote brought it home for me. They tried so hard and were fated to fail because it was a deathtrap.

Just before dawn, after an exhausting night, Robertson and his fire crew finally returned to Station 4. After filling out paperwork, he gathered his firefighters. They still didn’t know how many had perished inside. But they knew they hadn’t saved a single soul.

“Take care of your mental health. Don’t do something self-destructive. I know this is hard to deal with,” Robertson told them.

 

[Foxfire]

Apologies if this was posted already.

The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/11/oakland-fire-ghost-ship-last-hours/







Absolutely heartbreaking details.

"Heart wrenching"! 'The last hours of Oakland’s Ghost Ship warehouse conflagration will haunt the victim's families, friends, and loved ones, as well as the firefighters and other first responders for decades to come'..

<snipped from article linked & BBM>

Just before dawn, after an exhausting night, Robertson and his fire crew finally returned to Station 4. After filling out paperwork, he gathered his firefighters. They still didn&#8217;t know how many had perished inside. But they knew they hadn&#8217;t saved a single soul.

&#8220;Take care of your mental health. Don&#8217;t do something self-destructive. I know this is hard to deal with,&#8221; Robertson told them.

His shift over, Robertson &#8212; father of a 21-year-old daughter and a school-age son &#8212; showered and drove home. His wife greeted him when he walked in the door about 6 a.m. He opened his mouth, but no words came out. They embraced, and Robertson started sobbing. She had never seen him break down like that before...

 

[Jax49]

"Heart wrenching"! 'The last hours of Oakland&#8217;s Ghost Ship warehouse conflagration will haunt the victim's families, friends, and loved ones, as well as the firefighters and other first responders for decades to come'..

It took me three attempts to read it...I was crying too hard to see. None of those involved will ever be the same. MOO

 

[CoreyRocks]

I would have been right there with you, MsM!

There is a little girl around the 2:00 mark on the left side.

 

[CoreyRocks]

To give an idea of what it was like to attend an event at the Ghostship. If I was in my 20's and living in Oakland I may very well have been there that night.

[video=youtube;p6toXmP6QO8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6toXmP6QO8&t[/video]

Should have included the video. I see a little girl.at around the 200 mark on the left.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I dont know, that pic sure does not look it was taken i a Dennys!!
6
Compare and contrast !! Funny!

Ha

What kind of hold does Ion have on them? Seems cultish like some have mentioned. Moo.

 

[BritsKate]

Ion and his wife should spend the rest of their lives behind bars. Those who survived should be treated with empathy and respect, whether they have forgiven Ion or not.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Just to bounce off of your post, I think it's also important to remember it doesn't take one who is 'weak-willed', drug-addled, or dim-witted to fall prey to a psychopath/abusive personality/malignant narcissist. These types of personalities are so predatory and spend their entire lives perfecting their manipulations. Any type of presumed vulnerability is exposed and exploited to their gain. They learn your biggest hopes, your deepest fears, your beliefs and values - and weaponize every single one of them.

JMO and FWIW

 

[CoreyRocks]

i just listened to fire victim Cash Askew's music on youtube, it's so gorgeous and beautiful.

Them Are Us Too, song called Eudaemonia

[video=youtube;hA2onxrh_9g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA2onxrh_9g[/video]

What a beautiful voice. I'm crying at such a tragic loss.

 

[MsMarple]

Just to bounce off of your post, I think it's also important to remember it doesn't take one who is 'weak-willed', drug-addled, or dim-witted to fall prey to a psychopath/abusive personality/malignant narcissist. These types of personalities are so predatory and spend their entire lives perfecting their manipulations. Any type of presumed vulnerability is exposed and exploited to their gain. They learn your biggest hopes, your deepest fears, your beliefs and values - and weaponize every single one of them.

JMO and FWIW

I used the term "weak-willed" upthread - I should have been clearer in that "vulnerable," like you say, is probably more accurate. I encountered a few Dericks when I was very young, 13 to 15 and yes, I saw intelligent, loving friends go off the rails following these dudes. I can see how Derick and his wife can suck people in like ramen noodles when they are living on the fringe of society and undervalued as people. It's just heartbreaking.

 

[MsMarple]

Investigative report from the New York Times:

OAKLAND, Calif. — New York Times reporters are investigating the devastating fire that killed 36 people this month at a warehouse called the Ghost Ship in Oakland, Calif. We’re also doing something new: providing regular updates on our findings. Do you have information, advice or feedback? Send email to oaklandfire@nytimes.com.

The first update can be found here .
...
For about 20 years, Griselda Ceja and her family rented a portion of the building next to the burned warehouse. From there, Ms. Ceja ran a beauty salon she called Griselda’s. (The salon is still listed on Google Maps.)

“She never took care of the building,” Ms. Ceja said. “We were scared. We were all scared.”

Ms. Ceja, 43, described troubling conditions: a circuit box and light fixtures that sparked as she dried customers’ hair. A blocked emergency exit. An aged electric system that failed constantly. There were also rats in the walls and holes in the floors.

She wanted to go elsewhere but couldn’t afford to, she said.

Ms. Ceja said she complained frequently to Ms. Ng and her relatives, communicating through letters, phone calls and text messages. After about a year, Ms. Ceja said, the Ngs added a second circuit box, an effort to stop the sparking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/us/the-oakland-fire-what-we-know-about-the-warehouse-owner.html