What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[Veronica10]

UK,

My counterpoints in red.

"Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?"

I think JB was unconcious...she did not fight at all. I think a flashlight was used to help the stager see. I don't think the darkness prevented the person from staging the scene.

"Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!"

I think she was wiped down prior to her actual death. The longjohns were placed on her after cleaning. She maybe had a post-mortem release of urine after the re-dress. Also, I believe the wipe down was to remove feces. I think the tiolet rage may have involved a bowel movement.

"JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked clothing because these did not matter to her killer or the person who staged the wine-cellar crime scene!

What did matter was hiding the sexual assault!"

I don't think they were hiding a sexual assault...I think they were staging one. I am of the school which doesn't believe JB was sexually abused prior to that night. I think the damage to her hymen may have been from Patsy using a douche on her. I just don't see the tell-tale signs of JB being sexually abused (she was confident, and out-spoken, gregarious, etc.). This is purely a gut feeling for me. I can totally see Patsy using a douche due to her own fears of ovarian cancer, female cleanliness, and JB's recurring infections.

 

[Solace]

UK,

My counterpoints in red.

"Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?"

I think JB was unconcious...she did not fight at all. I think a flashlight was used to help the stager see. I don't think the darkness prevented the person from staging the scene.

"Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!"

I think she was wiped down prior to her actual death. The longjohns were placed on her after cleaning. She maybe had a post-mortem release of urine after the re-dress. Also, I believe the wipe down was to remove feces. I think the tiolet rage may have involved a bowel movement.

"JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked clothing because these did not matter to her killer or the person who staged the wine-cellar crime scene!

What did matter was hiding the sexual assault!"

I don't think they were hiding a sexual assault...I think they were staging one. I am of the school which doesn't believe JB was sexually abused prior to that night. I think the damage to her hymen may have been from Patsy using a douche on her. I just don't see the tell-tale signs of JB being sexually abused (she was confident, and out-spoken, gregarious, etc.). This is purely a gut feeling for me. I can totally see Patsy using a douche due to her own fears of ovarian cancer, female cleanliness, and JB's recurring infections.

First person on this Board I have heard say the "douche" thing and I AGREE. I think it was a regular thing with her and that is what the crying and the screaming was about in the bathroom almost on a daily basis. I think the internal injuries to JonBenet could have been the same with this procedure. And your last sentence is pretty much right on from where I stand.

 

[JMO8778]

Or maybe she was using a med for yeast infections????Is this why her med records were hidden????The applicator would be about the same size as a douche,I believe.

I think JB was wiped down b/f the strangulation and the urine was released upon her death,and not noticed by the stager,(altho I don't rule out a sexual assualt),it just seems the stager was trying to make this appear to be something so far out that a parent couldnt have possibly done it.and sadly,some have bought into it,just as they did with the RN (that I think PR wrote).

 

[Veronica10]

First person on this Board I have heard say the "douche" thing and I AGREE. I think it was a regular thing with her and that is what the crying and the screaming was about in the bathroom almost on a daily basis. I think the internal injuries to JonBenet could have been the same with this procedure. And your last sentence is pretty much right on from where I stand.

Solace,

I voiced my opinion on the douching issue back in November and a poster SLAMMED my theory. I did not persist because I am new and not an experienced poster. But I think you are right. I think the damage to the hymen was from douching. I don't think she was sexually abused. She was too outgoing, vocal and confident to be someone's victim.

I totally agree with you on this. And to me it is a very Patsy thing to do (however inappropriate for a 6 year old).

 

[Veronica10]

Or maybe she was using a med for yeast infections????Is this why her med records were hidden????The applicator would be about the same size as a douche,I believe.

I think JB was wiped down b/f the strangulation and the urine was released upon her death,and not noticed by the stager,(altho I don't rule out a sexual assualt),it just seems the stager was trying to make this appear to be something so far out that a parent couldnt have possibly done it.and sadly,some have bought into it,just as they did with the RN (that I think PR wrote).

Agreed, the staged sexual assault was done to point away from the parents. A parent would NEVER do that, right? I don't think it was to hide a previous rape, I think it was to direct police towards a stranger, an intruder.

 

[JMO8778]

yeast infection doesn't necessarily mean she was sexually abused..I think some antibiotics can cause it as a side effect.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

I voiced my opinion on the douching issue back in November and a poster SLAMMED my theory. I did not persist because I am new and not an experienced poster. But I think you are right. I think the damage to the hymen was from douching. I don't think she was sexually abused. She was too outgoing, vocal and confident to be someone's victim.

I totally agree with you on this. And to me it is a very Patsy thing to do (however inappropriate for a 6 year old).

Veronica,

Sorry you were slammed (and why because sexual abuse is the only possible answer) No. The more I think about this case, I believe you are right. I have been up and down on this case. But the more I think about it the sexual abuse does not sit right with me. Just does not. The fact that she had chronic infections and that it appeared that she was sexually molested makes me think the damage was from douching.

What was all the screaming going on in the bathroom, every day, or almost everyday. Come on something was going on with Patsy and JonBenet. What could it have been - douching? She is injuried, she is tiny, she has chronic infections - sounds reasonable to me Veronica. And one could very well injure a squirming child if they were trying to do what we are suggesting. Very easily.

As far as sexual abuse by John. His other kids never reported anything. I realize that this is a secret, and people don't report things, but I don't see it. I don't think Patsy would have allowed it. I may get slammed for that one. But Patsy is a very very strong person and that is not going down with her. It would humiliate her and she does not cotton to humiliation in my book.

Why the killing? I can see the rage in Patsy. You can just tell by her face that she is plenty capable of rage. Probably get slammed for that one. But I believe it more often than not, one can tell a lot about a person by their face. She is tough. Soooooooo, She is definitely taking medication. I would bet money on it. I will just say it. Definitely. Had a couple of glasses of wine and is exhausted. She has been up since the crack of dawn, opened presents, made breakfast, had kids over to play with Berke, John went to the airport to check on the plane, then Patsy played with Jon Benet, fixed some sort of lunch (she thinks), dyed her hair and got everyone ready to go to the Whites. But before that, they went up to the moutain to see a cross or something and Jon Benet wanted to get out and touch it. IT WAS A FULL DAY. I am exhausted just thinking about it. Then went to the Whites, socialized, had some wine, left at 9:00 dropped off some gifts, came home and Patsy is in no mood so don't f%$# around. And JonBenet, either had an accident and it infuriated Patsy again or was very sassy to Patsy. There was something going on in the bathroom - the hair ties are all over the floor, the red turtleneck is in a ball. I don't know if the jeans from JonBenet are in the bathroom, but there is a picture in evidence of jeans scrunched up like someone stepped out of them and they are soiled. There are also fibers from the garrote that were found in the bed.

As I said before, Cyril Wecht, although I don't like his sexual asphixiation theory, presents evidence of bruising on both sides of Jon Benet's head (on the inside) as if someone shooked her frantically. Now that is interesting.

 

[JMO8778]

Veronica,

Sorry you were slammed (and why because sexual abuse is the only possible answer) No. The more I think about this case, I believe you are right. I have been up and down on this case. But the more I think about it the sexual abuse does not sit right with me. Just does not. The fact that she had chronic infections and that it appeared that she was sexually molested makes me think the damage was from douching.

What was all the screaming going on in the bathroom, every day, or almost everyday. Come on something was going on with Patsy and JonBenet. What could it have been - douching? She is injuried, she is tiny, she has chronic infections - sounds reasonable to me Veronica. And one could very well injure a squirming child if they were trying to do what we are suggesting. Very easily.

As far as sexual abuse by John. His other kids never reported anything. I realize that this is a secret, and people don't report things, but I don't see it. I don't think Patsy would have allowed it. I may get slammed for that one. But Patsy is a very very strong person and that is not going down with her. It would humiliate her and she does not cotton to humiliation in my book.

Why the killing? I can see the rage in Patsy. You can just tell by her face that she is plenty capable of rage. Probably get slammed for that one. But I believe it more often than not, one can tell a lot about a person by their face. She is tough. Soooooooo, She is definitely taking medication. I would bet money on it. I will just say it. Definitely. Had a couple of glasses of wine and is exhausted. She has been up since the crack of dawn, opened presents, made breakfast, had kids over to play with Berke, John went to the airport to check on the plane, then Patsy played with Jon Benet, fixed some sort of lunch (she thinks), dyed her hair and got everyone ready to go to the Whites. But before that, they went up to the moutain to see a cross or something and Jon Benet wanted to get out and touch it. IT WAS A FULL DAY. I am exhausted just thinking about it. Then went to the Whites, socialized, had some wine, left at 9:00 dropped off some gifts, came home and Patsy is in no mood so don't f%$# around. And JonBenet, either had an accident and it infuriated Patsy again or was very sassy to Patsy. There was something going on in the bathroom - the hair ties are all over the floor, the red turtleneck is in a ball. I don't know if the jeans from JonBenet are in the bathroom, but there is a picture in evidence of jeans scrunched up like someone stepped out of them and they are soiled. There are also fibers from the garrote that were found in the bed.

As I said before, Cyril Wecht, although I don't like his sexual asphixiation theory, presents evidence of bruising on both sides of Jon Benet's head (on the inside) as if someone shooked her frantically. Now that is interesting.

yes,the condition of her room leads me to believe it was PR,not JR,struggling with her.
I don't rule JR out completely,esp if he helped with the staging,but it seems most things point to PR.

 

[UKGuy]

UK,

My counterpoints in red.

"Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?"

I think JB was unconcious...she did not fight at all. I think a flashlight was used to help the stager see. I don't think the darkness prevented the person from staging the scene.

"Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!"

I think she was wiped down prior to her actual death. The longjohns were placed on her after cleaning. She maybe had a post-mortem release of urine after the re-dress. Also, I believe the wipe down was to remove feces. I think the tiolet rage may have involved a bowel movement.

"JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked clothing because these did not matter to her killer or the person who staged the wine-cellar crime scene!

What did matter was hiding the sexual assault!"

I don't think they were hiding a sexual assault...I think they were staging one. I am of the school which doesn't believe JB was sexually abused prior to that night. I think the damage to her hymen may have been from Patsy using a douche on her. I just don't see the tell-tale signs of JB being sexually abused (she was confident, and out-spoken, gregarious, etc.). This is purely a gut feeling for me. I can totally see Patsy using a douche due to her own fears of ovarian cancer, female cleanliness, and JB's recurring infections.

Veronica10,

"Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!"

I think she was wiped down prior to her actual death. The longjohns were placed on her after cleaning. She maybe had a post-mortem release of urine after the re-dress. Also, I believe the wipe down was to remove feces. I think the tiolet rage may have involved a bowel movement.

If she was wiped down prior to her death, how do you explain the blood smears on her size-12 underwear and that of her genitalia?

If her wipe down was to remove feces, why did they leave her feces soiled pants/jeans lying on the bathroom floor, this is just as negligent as leaving her wearing urine-soaked underwear?

I am of the school which doesn't believe JB was sexually abused prior to that night. I think the damage to her hymen may have been from Patsy using a douche on her.

Coroner Meyer who actually performed her autopsy was of the opinion that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and that in addition to her acute injuries, some were chronic. The enlargement of JonBenet's hymen was atypical for girl of her age group. This is not evidence of douching it is evidence of sexual activity, and Coroner Meyer intimated that he considered it predated the time of her death. Definitively Coroner Meyer did not suggest her vaginal injuries may have been caused by one or more methods one of which was douching, he never mentioned it.

This is purely a gut feeling for me. I can totally see Patsy using a douche due to her own fears of ovarian cancer, female cleanliness, and JB's recurring infections.

My understanding is that douching has the opposite effect and is more likely to lead ovarian infections, since the douching removes the bodies natural anti-bodies and helpful bacteria that would defend against infection?


There were three people in that house and any one of them may have killed JonBenet.

JonBenet may have endured the discipline of pageants and accompanying sexual abuse for years, her family life was dysfunctional, to simply blame it all on Patsy as a rage incident appears somewhat simplistic to me.



.

 

[Veronica10]

UK,

"If she was wiped down prior to her death, how do you explain the blood smears on her size-12 underwear and that of her genitalia?

If her wipe down was to remove feces, why did they leave her feces soiled pants/jeans lying on the bathroom floor, this is just as negligent as leaving her wearing urine-soaked underwear?"

I think the blood on the size 12 undies came from an internal injury in her vagina, it trickled down after her death. It may not have reached the outside of her body for a while. I don't think anyone noticed the soiled undies balled up inside the pants in the bathroom. I don't think the soiled undies/pants had anything to do with the incident that occurred on the night of 12/25...that's why they were left there. I think the upstairs of the house was quite unkempt. Lots of clothes everywhere etc.


"Coroner Meyer who actually performed her autopsy was of the opinion that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and that in addition to her acute injuries, some were chronic. The enlargement of JonBenet's hymen was atypical for girl of her age group. This is not evidence of douching it is evidence of sexual activity, and Coroner Meyer intimated that he considered it predated the time of her death. Definitively Coroner Meyer did not suggest her vaginal injuries may have been caused by one or more methods one of which was douching, he never mentioned it.

My understanding is that douching has the opposite effect and is more likely to lead ovarian infections, since the douching removes the bodies natural anti-bodies and helpful bacteria that would defend against infection?"

I think JB may have been digitally penetrated that night (with a gloved finger along with paintbrush). However, I think the damage to her hymen over time (the chronic injuries he examined) may have been from douching. You're right about douching removing the antibodies and it actually being counter-productive, but that is not believed by everybody. Many old school women swear by them and use them quite routinely. They would not be on the market and a large part of the feminen hygiene market share if people were not using them (for benefit of the female body or not). This is my theory after pouring through all information I could. My gut tells me she was not sexually abused. I think JB was a "sparkplug" and would not have allowed abuse. She also was quite vocal and not afraid to speak out.

"There were three people in that house and any one of them may have killed JonBenet.

JonBenet may have endured the discipline of pageants and accompanying sexual abuse for years, her family life was dysfunctional, to simply blame it all on Patsy as a rage incident appears somewhat simplistic to me."

Rage incidents DO happen and it is not simplistic to me at all. In fact, I think Patsy was a prime candidate to lose her shizz and snap.

 

[Veronica10]

Veronica,

Sorry you were slammed (and why because sexual abuse is the only possible answer) No. The more I think about this case, I believe you are right. I have been up and down on this case. But the more I think about it the sexual abuse does not sit right with me. Just does not. The fact that she had chronic infections and that it appeared that she was sexually molested makes me think the damage was from douching.

What was all the screaming going on in the bathroom, every day, or almost everyday. Come on something was going on with Patsy and JonBenet. What could it have been - douching? She is injuried, she is tiny, she has chronic infections - sounds reasonable to me Veronica. And one could very well injure a squirming child if they were trying to do what we are suggesting. Very easily.

As far as sexual abuse by John. His other kids never reported anything. I realize that this is a secret, and people don't report things, but I don't see it. I don't think Patsy would have allowed it. I may get slammed for that one. But Patsy is a very very strong person and that is not going down with her. It would humiliate her and she does not cotton to humiliation in my book.

Why the killing? I can see the rage in Patsy. You can just tell by her face that she is plenty capable of rage. Probably get slammed for that one. But I believe it more often than not, one can tell a lot about a person by their face. She is tough. Soooooooo, She is definitely taking medication. I would bet money on it. I will just say it. Definitely. Had a couple of glasses of wine and is exhausted. She has been up since the crack of dawn, opened presents, made breakfast, had kids over to play with Berke, John went to the airport to check on the plane, then Patsy played with Jon Benet, fixed some sort of lunch (she thinks), dyed her hair and got everyone ready to go to the Whites. But before that, they went up to the moutain to see a cross or something and Jon Benet wanted to get out and touch it. IT WAS A FULL DAY. I am exhausted just thinking about it. Then went to the Whites, socialized, had some wine, left at 9:00 dropped off some gifts, came home and Patsy is in no mood so don't f%$# around. And JonBenet, either had an accident and it infuriated Patsy again or was very sassy to Patsy. There was something going on in the bathroom - the hair ties are all over the floor, the red turtleneck is in a ball. I don't know if the jeans from JonBenet are in the bathroom, but there is a picture in evidence of jeans scrunched up like someone stepped out of them and they are soiled. There are also fibers from the garrote that were found in the bed.

As I said before, Cyril Wecht, although I don't like his sexual asphixiation theory, presents evidence of bruising on both sides of Jon Benet's head (on the inside) as if someone shooked her frantically. Now that is interesting.

Well, you have found someone who firmly believes in the douching theory as you do. I have a strong instinct about this one. I don't think chronic sexual abuse was happening in that house. I just don't. Dysfunctional and weird, yes. The pagaents, the over-the-top Mom, the disconnected Dad, the strange Burke (bee-bop-beep), and the mega-JonBenet. But JB was outgoing, vocal, and fun. Purely from the gut...I don't think it was happening. The screaming in the bathroom between Patsy and JB cements this for me. I keep coming back to this being the answer for a damaged hymen. So right you are, Patsy would have twisted John's balls off if he ever touched JB. And I don't believe he ever would have.

I also see the rage behind the perfect facade. I do not believe for a second that Patsy was the genteel Southern lady she wanted everyone to see. She was a master. I think the real Patsy was the one that wanted to survive cancer so that "blond down the street" wouldn't get her husband. Patsy was a tiger. She would not be out-done by anyone. I think she was the head of the household and the family architect for sure.

In the ten years past, John has tried to portray his wife as a gentle little mouse...how unbelievably laughable that is. Remember he said he had never seen her get angry...give me a break. Again, how freakin laughable is that. The blond comment was the real Patsy. Remember she helped build that multi-million dollar business, and I think she was truly the power player in the Ramsey household. I think her life and her kids (especially JB), and her house and everything else HAD to be perfect and to me that is a recipe for some serious psychiatric issues. I think Patsy had some serious, serious issues prior to 12/25/06. To me, what occurred and who did it was common sense.

 

[UKGuy]

UK,

"If she was wiped down prior to her death, how do you explain the blood smears on her size-12 underwear and that of her genitalia?

If her wipe down was to remove feces, why did they leave her feces soiled pants/jeans lying on the bathroom floor, this is just as negligent as leaving her wearing urine-soaked underwear?"

I think the blood on the size 12 undies came from an internal injury in her vagina, it trickled down after her death. It may not have reached the outside of her body for a while. I don't think anyone noticed the soiled undies balled up inside the pants in the bathroom. I don't think the soiled undies/pants had anything to do with the incident that occurred on the night of 12/25...that's why they were left there. I think the upstairs of the house was quite unkempt. Lots of clothes everywhere etc.

Veronica10,

I think the blood on the size 12 undies came from an internal injury in her vagina, it trickled down after her death.

But Coroner Meyer noted that she had been wiped down after bleeding since there were blood smears on her thighs and no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!

Which means her urine soaked longjohns were ignored in favor of removing the blood!





.

 

[Veronica10]

UK,

"But Coroner Meyer noted that she had been wiped down after bleeding since there were blood smears on her thighs and no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!

Which means her urine soaked longjohns were ignored in favor of removing the blood!"

Is it possible there was initial bleeding from the internal injury, it was wiped down, longjohns put on, death occurred, post-mortem release of urine, then additional blood trickle down after.

Also, not sure what you mean by "no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!".

This discussion had made me want to go back and look at the coroner's report.

 

[Solace]

UK,

"But Coroner Meyer noted that she had been wiped down after bleeding since there were blood smears on her thighs and no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!

Which means her urine soaked longjohns were ignored in favor of removing the blood!"

Is it possible there was initial bleeding from the internal injury, it was wiped down, longjohns put on, death occurred, post-mortem release of urine, then additional blood trickle down after.

Also, not sure what you mean by "no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!".

This discussion had made me want to go back and look at the coroner's report.

It is very possible that blood trickled down after the fact. Also, Meyer does not mention abuse in the coroner's report, he does mention that fact to Detective Arndt verbally. These injuries most certainly could have been caused by douching. First of all, she is tiny, she has chronic infections and Patsy had voiced concern about them to her friend (cannot remembe the name, it is in PM/PT). A squirming child would have gotten injuries from douching especially if Patsy is doing it in a circular motion to make sure she is clean.

UK says: "no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear!".

The blood on her underwear was her blood mixed with the unidentified older DNA from the underwear (that is believed to have come from a factory worker who handled the underwear when he packaged it).

It is also apparent that there were older injuries which are likened to sexual abuse. They could have been from douching. It is an extremely sensitive area. The walls are lined with a very delicate skin which bleed almost to the touch if it is hard enough. Douching could make her bleed. Remember Patsy is the one doing the douching, she is NOT the one feeling the pain and may very well have thought it necessary and she was not being harmful.

 

[Solace]

Veronica10,


If she was wiped down prior to her death, how do you explain the blood smears on her size-12 underwear and that of her genitalia?

If her wipe down was to remove feces, why did they leave her feces soiled pants/jeans lying on the bathroom floor, this is just as negligent as leaving her wearing urine-soaked underwear?


Coroner Meyer who actually performed her autopsy was of the opinion that JonBenet had been digitally penetrated and that in addition to her acute injuries, some were chronic. The enlargement of JonBenet's hymen was atypical for girl of her age group. This is not evidence of douching it is evidence of sexual activity, and Coroner Meyer intimated that he considered it predated the time of her death. Definitively Coroner Meyer did not suggest her vaginal injuries may have been caused by one or more methods one of which was douching, he never mentioned it. Douching is not meant for little girls. And if it is done to them on a regular basis, it can cause infections rather than eliminate them, it can cause injury if done roughly. Linda Paugh said she heard crying and screaming coming from the bathroom on a daily basis. Patsy kept the door closed, she was screaming, JB was screaming and crying. This is going on almost daily. Injuries could certainly have occured to this very delicate area. Why would a finger be less painful than douching if the right amount of pressure is applied?

My understanding is that douching has the opposite effect and is more likely to lead ovarian infections, since the douching removes the bodies natural anti-bodies and helpful bacteria that would defend against infection? It is more likely to cause infections IF IT IS DONE ON A REGULAR BASIS.


There were three people in that house and any one of them may have killed JonBenet.

JonBenet may have endured the discipline of pageants and accompanying sexual abuse for years, her family life was dysfunctional, to simply blame it all on Patsy as a rage incident appears somewhat simplistic to me. Don't underestimate RAGE; it has killed many a wife, brother, sister, daughter, son and infants and continues to do so in alarming numbers.



.

One more thing about Patsy and her rage. She was once criticized by a woman at her daughter's school and did not speak to the woman for a year. This tells me if you mess with her, she is likely NOT to forget it anytime soon.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I don't know what to think of the douche theory. It's certainly possible Patsy was forcing JonBenet to submit to douching, but...why would a mother want to use douche on a 6 year old child? What did she think was in there that needed to be cleaned out?

 

[Solace]

I don't know what to think of the douche theory. It's certainly possible Patsy was forcing JonBenet to submit to douching, but...why would a mother want to use douche on a 6 year old child? What did she think was in there that needed to be cleaned out?

NP. Patsy would want to douche a 6 year old if she thought the feces and the urine was causing the infections and the wetness of the underwear was keeping the infections going - not realizing that daily douching or almost daily douching would keep the infections going by not allowing the natural body fluids to work.

I can see Patsy doing this. She dyes her hair, she literally takes away her childhood for pageants and constant rehearsals. Why not douching - she is trying to keep her clean. And apparently Jon Benet had a real problem here. Her underwear were soiled almost daily because someone was too lazy to take the time to make sure that she learned this. Patsy says when she was diagnosed with cancer, her mother took charge and completely ignored teaching her anything with regard to this. So Patsy regains her strenth and JonBenet is now wetting her bed and soiling her underwear. Linda Paugh says the sheets were off the bed daily and in the washer. It was an ongoing problem for Patsy.

As Veronica said, Patsy is going through Ovarian cancer and is probably nervous about the infections and goes ahead with the douching. I just think the crying from JB coming from the bathroom every day lends credence to this theory.

 

[JMO8778]

Well, you have found someone who firmly believes in the douching theory as you do. I have a strong instinct about this one. I don't think chronic sexual abuse was happening in that house. I just don't. Dysfunctional and weird, yes. The pagaents, the over-the-top Mom, the disconnected Dad, the strange Burke (bee-bop-beep), and the mega-JonBenet. But JB was outgoing, vocal, and fun. Purely from the gut...I don't think it was happening. The screaming in the bathroom between Patsy and JB cements this for me. I keep coming back to this being the answer for a damaged hymen. So right you are, Patsy would have twisted John's balls off if he ever touched JB. And I don't believe he ever would have.

I also see the rage behind the perfect facade. I do not believe for a second that Patsy was the genteel Southern lady she wanted everyone to see. She was a master. I think the real Patsy was the one that wanted to survive cancer so that "blond down the street" wouldn't get her husband. Patsy was a tiger. She would not be out-done by anyone. I think she was the head of the household and the family architect for sure.

In the ten years past, John has tried to portray his wife as a gentle little mouse...how unbelievably laughable that is. Remember he said he had never seen her get angry...give me a break. Again, how freakin laughable is that. The blond comment was the real Patsy. Remember she helped build that multi-million dollar business, and I think she was truly the power player in the Ramsey household. I think her life and her kids (especially JB), and her house and everything else HAD to be perfect and to me that is a recipe for some serious psychiatric issues. I think Patsy had some serious, serious issues prior to 12/25/06. To me, what occurred and who did it was common sense.

she did sound like a control freak..like everything was either 'my way or NO way !!!'
And a bossy,take control kind of person.And a manipulator,for sure.
Could she have been a bit paranoid that JB would get ovarian cancer as well,when she was older,and keeping her extra clean would help prevent it???

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Good lord, I love that post of yours JMO just quoted, Veronica10. You've nailed the Ramsey home dynamic and the real Patsy, imo. JR was gone much of the time - Patsy ran that house and her children and had to be on top of everything all the time to maintain the image she deperately wanted others to see. I don't believe for a second that Patsy was the modest, biddable, perhaps flighty but never ever cross Southern belle she and JR portrayed her as, and I also don't believe she had no idea what was in the bank account or her husband's paycheck and/or bonus, either.

I have to wonder exactly what Patsy's home dynamic as a child was - it seems as though Don Paugh is a manly man and Nedra was the slightly batty woman-behind-the-man and enabler asserting her influence where she could. Perhaps Patsy, being the assertive and gung ho type of person she was, decided to up it a notch and wear the pants more than her mother did because JR was off doing his own thing so often. It seems as though she deferred to John when he acted like he meant business, or whenever she needed to give him the puppy dog eyes and feel taken care of. Just my opinion. Whatever the case, I do feel Patsy had some mental issues that were a result perhaps from genetics, or perhaps from the home she herself grew up in...issues that could result in the unplanned and unintentional death of her daughter.

I can kinda see the douching, and that explains a lot, because I've always had trouble seeing JR as a molester due to lack of evidence proving he was...but the idea of a mother subjecting her daughter to douche at 6 years old is so repulsive that I automatically want to reject it.

 

[JMO8778]

good post,NP.
Since JR had been known to have affairs in the past,I think it's likely he would have done so again,rather than molest JB.I could be wrong though..I don't know what to think of the douching either..is it possible she had a yeast infection(s) and was using an internal med for that?Her ped. did hide her records..
I have a feeling that PR wasn't the type of woman to be ignored,needed a lot of attention,and since JR was gone a lot... was she possibly having an affair herself??
It was said she never set the alarm when he was gone,and wasn't afraid.I think I would be afraid enough to set the alarm if I were alone in such a big house with 2 small kids..maybe someone else was there with her those nights??I've read theories that JB got into the middle of an argument going on that night and was killed.