Was Burke Involved? # 4

[DrollForeignFaction]

I'd just like to say like... for all the bdi people...why would he go on dr Phil? Why would john keep giving interviews? If they had something to do with it, their attys would have them stay quiet. Read john Douglas opinion on the cases that haunt us. This was done by a disturbed yet criminally inexperienced individual. The police should have pounded everybody at johns work or people related to his coworkers.

But surely you'd agree that if one of the Ramseys WAS involved they were criminally inexperienced and undoubtedly somewhat disturbed...just saying.

As for why Burke would go on Dr. Phil if he was guilty, who knows. It certainly didn't end up being a good PR move because so many people thought he came off as strange. But Lin Wood himself admitted that it was a preemptive strike against the BDI CBS special that came out a few days after the interview - get Burke's side of the story out there, make him sympathetic. He was only on screen about 1/3rd of the time anyway, the show was primarily dedicated to the usual pro- Ramsey rehash and spin from LW and JR. Desperate times, desperate measures.


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[Wasp27]

I don't think he came off as strange. this happened when he was a little boy and he has to keep living his life. Can you imagine what it must have been like for him? He will never be able to live a normal life. And those knocking john Douglas I'm curious as to why...I' agree with a lot of his ideas about certain cases i.e. Jack the Ripper.

 

[Wasp27]

I don't think john is dumb enough to think the way everything went down was a good idea. I honestly think if it were an accident either bdi or Pdi he would have handled it rationally

 

[kanzz]

I'd just like to say like... for all the bdi people...why would he go on dr Phil? Why would john keep giving interviews? If they had something to do with it, their attys would have them stay quiet. Read john Douglas opinion on the cases that haunt us. This was done by a disturbed yet criminally inexperienced individual. The police should have pounded everybody at johns work or people related to his coworkers.

OK - I'm a BDI, so I'll take "BDI for $400", Wasp27.

How about:
Reverse psychology?
Brainwashed?
He's convinced himself he didn't do it? (because sociopaths can actually do that)
Or just.. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

At any rate - he did. And it backfired, imo. And many criminals have liberally spoken out about their alleged innocence in the past when we all knew they we guilty. So, it doesn't wash with me.

 

[kanzz]

I don't think john is dumb enough to think the way everything went down was a good idea. I honestly think if it were an accident either bdi or Pdi he would have handled it rationally

Strangling someone isn't an accident, imo. But I would agree that I don't think JR probably thought it was a good idea. I think he probably got sucked into PR's vortex that morning - but he became complicit in this crime nonetheless.

 

[Rott Mom]

Re the DP interview, DP asked BR...why do an interview now? I expected him to say that the
killer needs to be caught. Instead BR answers - something along the lines of - There is still so
much public fascination. IMO - just weird.

 

[Rott Mom]

I've been checking in with her. She is recovering from being ill, but sounds to be on the mend.
See this is another reason I love websleuths. We care about one another.

Please send my love & prayers to her.

 

[singularity]

Read john Douglas opinion on the cases that haunt us. This was done by a disturbed yet criminally inexperienced individual. The police should have pounded everybody at johns work or people related to his coworkers.

I've read every Douglas book. He's a genius but when it comes to the Ramsey case.....he didn't know his *advertiser censored* from his elbow.

IMO he was brought in early by Team Ramsey to taint him so he couldn't be a factor further down the road if he was ever brought in by BPD, FBI,etc. to help advise them on the case. Once Douglas claimed it was an intruder, Ramseys had no more use for him. Douglas claimed IDI without even getting to look at any of the evidence. One interesting thing about his profile of the killer is that half of it would fit someone in the house.....especially Patsy.

I always thought there are at least two people on earth who could've solved this case if they were handed all the files and could've interviewed the Ramseys.....Douglas and Ressler. Ressler is dead and Douglas ruined his reputation to an extent by defending the Ramseys when he didn't know all the facts.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I don't think he came off as strange. this happened when he was a little boy and he has to keep living his life. Can you imagine what it must have been like for him? He will never be able to live a normal life. And those knocking john Douglas I'm curious as to why...I' agree with a lot of his ideas about certain cases i.e. Jack the Ripper.

I can't speak to his thoughts on other cases but here's why I don't trust his opinion on the Ramsey case.

He was hired by the Ramseys' lawyers as a paid expert so he has a vested interest in saying they were not involved. The lawyers first contacted his colleague Greg McCrary who declined their request because he knew statistically the parents were likely to be involved. Douglas never had access to any police evidence or even the autopsy report. He was briefed by the Ramseys lawyers who apparently lied to him about having access to the report, or he was mistaken - either way he was embarrassed on TV when he was confronted with the fact that their lawyers did not in fact have the report he claimed they had. He talked to John first because at the time John was the logical suspect as the only adult male in the house. But he never talked to Patsy alone but instead brought her in after he decided John wasn't the killer - a big mistake because SHE would turn out to be the prime suspect. Posters have posted excerpts from his previous writings about staged crime scenes and familial involvement that sound eerily similar to the Ramsey crime - but directly contradict everything he's written about the case. It's as if in this one specific situation his judgement flew out the window. Certainly his colleagues McCrary and Robert Ressler didn't agree with his assessment.


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[Padron18]

Alot of years have passed since the killing of Jon Benet Ramsey, but the one who I firmly believe that was responsible for her death is still alive and the other has passed on also. Burke Ramsey is the one responsible for his sisters death and his mother covered it up nicely. Burke was known to abuse his sister and the family, friends and neighbors knew of this. On one account he got so mad and jealous of Jon Benet that he took a golf club and hit her across the face resulting in stitching on the side of her face, then on other accounts he has been known to slip into her bedroom and beat her up leaving bruises on her eyes and face. Burke in my opinion to this day was serially abusing her and with threat he would control her. That night he went got her up to go down stairs to the kitchen and eat some Pineapple so Burke fixed them a bowl, that's one piece Patsy missed to clean up because the Police didn'the. They found Patsy's fingerprintso on the bowl and spoon, but they also found Burke and Jon Benet fingerprints on the bowl and spoon, but when tested for DNA only Burke and Jon Benet came back as hits in the pineapple and along the bowl. When the Autopsy was performed they found undigested pineapple in her stomach and both John and Patsy told the Police when questioned said she had No Pineapple that Night nor the days before her death, but the Police investigators found the bowl and some pineapple still left in the on the table in the Kitchen. Now this is where Patsy makes her Cleaning Party. After writing the letters found on the back stairwell and calling 911 Patsy immediately called her's and John's friends to come over and she even asked a few of her closest neighbors to come in for support, but when the Police arrived Patsy and her friends were cleaning the house, vacuuming, dusting the whole 9 yards, one Investigator told them to stop because this is still an active ongoing Crime Scene due to a Child being Kidnapped or at least they thought at that point. Why would you as a Mother knowing your child has been taken and you're directing friends to clean and your right behind them cleaning away. Now during the Autopsy it showed that Jon Benet had been sexaully abused by a foreign object, strangled by the Gauraut they found in the Basement by her body, the Coroner's report said she fought back because she managed to get her fingers in between her neck and the Gauraut. So in my opinion her attacker could not have been an Adult Male or Female, because either one would have more control over her without her fighting back with that much resistance. Plus to finish her off because the Gauraut didn't do the job so they had to Finish with the Blow to her Head. That is why I feel Burke Killed his little Sister. Jealousy, Abusive, and Psychological I believe he had deep, dark rooted problems. Even when the Police asked to talk too Burke, Patsy told them No, but one of their Qualified Psychologist could sit and talk with him only. After all the evidence I have seen and testimony I have heard it's my opinion that Burke got in over his head that night lost total control and Killed his Sister on Dec. 26. Patsy was awoken to Burke and his commotion's afterwards and she knew she was going to lose another child or Cover it up. She made her decision that night or very early that morning. John he had to roll with the plan Patsy layed out.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Nice post, Padron18! I did have some disagreements with a few of your assertions, though.

Alot of years have passed since the killing of Jon Benet Ramsey, but the one who I firmly believe that was responsible for her death is still alive and the other has passed on also. Burke Ramsey is the one responsible for his sisters death and his mother covered it up nicely. Burke was known to abuse his sister and the family, friends and neighbors knew of this. On one account he got so mad and jealous of Jon Benet that he took a golf club and hit her across the face resulting in stitching on the side of her face, then on other accounts he has been known to slip into her bedroom and beat her up leaving bruises on her eyes and face.

You're right about the first part. Ex-friend Judith Phillips told CBS that although Patsy later told police Burke hit JB's face accidentally with the golf club, when it originally happened Patsy told Judith that Burke had lashed out at JB in a rage. But while Burke has admitted that he would sometimes go to JB's room at night (and vice versa) I've never seen any report that he snuck in to beat her or gave her any injuries.

Burke in my opinion to this day was serially abusing her and with threat he would control her. That night he went got her up to go down stairs to the kitchen and eat some Pineapple so Burke fixed them a bowl, that's one piece Patsy missed to clean up because the Police didn'the. They found Patsy's fingerprintso on the bowl and spoon, but they also found Burke and Jon Benet fingerprints on the bowl and spoon, but when tested for DNA only Burke and Jon Benet came back as hits in the pineapple and along the bowl.

JonBenet's fingerprints were not found on the bowl or spoon, and they did not test the bowl or spoon for DNA. Patsy and Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl and only Burke's fingerprints were found on a glass next to the pineapple.

When the Autopsy was performed they found undigested pineapple in her stomach and both John and Patsy told the Police when questioned said she had No Pineapple that Night nor the days before her death, but the Police investigators found the bowl and some pineapple still left in the on the table in the Kitchen. Now this is where Patsy makes her Cleaning Party. After writing the letters found on the back stairwell and calling 911 Patsy immediately called her's and John's friends to come over and she even asked a few of her closest neighbors to come in for support, but when the Police arrived Patsy and her friends were cleaning the house, vacuuming, dusting the whole 9 yards, one Investigator told them to stop because this is still an active ongoing Crime Scene due to a Child being Kidnapped or at least they thought at that point. Why would you as a Mother knowing your child has been taken and you're directing friends to clean and your right behind them cleaning away.

Technically, it wasn't Patsy's friends (Barb Fernie and Priscilla White) who were cleaning that morning. It was the two victim advocates the police department called who started cleaning up after the CSIs left fingerprint dust all over the house. So Patsy wasn't really responsible for the cleaning, she was just lucky it happened.

Now during the Autopsy it showed that Jon Benet had been sexaully abused by a foreign object, strangled by the Gauraut they found in the Basement by her body, the Coroner's report said she fought back because she managed to get her fingers in between her neck and the Gauraut. So in my opinion her attacker could not have been an Adult Male or Female, because either one would have more control over her without her fighting back with that much resistance. Plus to finish her off because the Gauraut didn't do the job so they had to Finish with the Blow to her Head. That is why I feel Burke Killed his little Sister.

Actually, it's commonly accepted that JB was hit on the head first and then strangled. By the time she was strangled she most likely would have been knocked unconscious and would be unable to struggle against the ligature with her fingers. Proponents of the intruder theory have long claimed that the marks on her neck came from her nails scratching against the rope, but nothing in the actual autopsy report suggests that. It's a myth.

Jealousy, Abusive, and Psychological I believe he had deep, dark rooted problems. Even when the Police asked to talk too Burke, Patsy told them No, but one of their Qualified Psychologist could sit and talk with him only. After all the evidence I have seen and testimony I have heard it's my opinion that Burke got in over his head that night lost total control and Killed his Sister on Dec. 26. Patsy was awoken to Burke and his commotion's afterwards and she knew she was going to lose another child or Cover it up. She made her decision that night or very early that morning. John he had to roll with the plan Patsy layed out.

 

[BoldBear]

JonBenet's fingerprints were not found on the bowl or spoon, and they did not test the bowl or spoon for DNA. Patsy and Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl and only Burke's fingerprints were found on a glass next to the pineapple.

JB had a chore checklist: Walk dog, make bed, take plate to sink, etc....

Her dishes could have found their way back to the kitchen sink and been inadvertently washed. No one knew the importance of the pineapple until the autopsy.

All these dropped balls and no pit to play in.

 

[BBB167893]

And those knocking john Douglas I'm curious as to why...I' agree with a lot of his ideas about certain cases i.e. Jack the Ripper.

Because he didn't look before he leaped.

 

[BOBON]

I'm new here so forgive me if I'm bringing up something that has already been mentioned.

I noticed the items mentioned on the cbs special were obviously part of the crime such as the pineapple, railroad track and flashlight. What I noticed is that from what I recall, the roll of duct tape and thread (rope) the investigators were unable to find where they originated from. I assume that's because it was thrown out during that hour and a half JR went missing. However, the pineapple, flashlight and railroad track were still in the house. I believe BR did not tell his father the truth on how he hurt Jonbenet. If he did, the evidence would have been trashed. It explains why you hear him ask "what did you find?" On the phone while still on the line with the police operator. He was asking JR that as he was coming up from the basement. He was curious if his dad found out the real cause (railroad track, flashlight). I'm sure BR's story to his parents was he only punched her or something to that affect.

So the flashlight theory... makes sense. Especially since I'm sure they snuck downstairs a lot to play and did not want to wake the parents. The flashlight was left in the kitchen area. If that is the weapon that killed her, how was she able to walk to the basement from the kitchen after being hit? Or did he chase her after she took the pineapple and grabbed the flashlight to follow her in the basement? The cbs story did not explain that or maybe I zoned out.

BR would not even say the word pineapple to the psychologist two years later. That interview made me believe 100% believe it all originated over the pineapple. He did not want to say the word to give the therapist "pleasure" (in BR's mind) knowing he was right. BR wants to call all the shots and be in control in his interviews as a kid. No normal children without mental health issues would reenact a crime like that. I was shocked he said hammer. He either has a Wes craven imagination or he is in fact the one that killed her. How ironic the game he was playing with the psychologist was "guess who?"

Most parents would have sent their kids back in school for the child's well being. I found that peculiar. Perhaps they were worried he might "talk" to peers.

Also, I think I recall some footage that showed Christmas lights on the morning the cops came when the note was found. So, I guess the parents never went to bed then? They were up all night staging the scene if that's the case.

That poor little girl. I know they will one day solve this and so many psychologists and criminal investigations in the future will benefit in knowing the red flags to look for. That poor girl seemed to be scared everyday in that house, which explains the bed wetting. Ugh and her brother with the fecal matter on her Christmas gift candy in her bedroom. She had no privacy in that house. I had a bully brother growing up and it was awful. He would act out or hurt me if I had any attention. I can emphasize with the scenario unfortunately.

And yes the attorney LW is in fact known as a "sleazeball" in the atlanta area. That's all I will say about him. I have not seen the entire dr. Phil interview yet, only parts. I'll be watching that next. Praying this girl gets justice.

Sara

Good points. I believe the garrote wasn't a garrote but a makeshift pull string to move her body. If an adult would have knocked her out/wounded her, they could have easily picked her body up. A kid does not have any strength so it would make sense a kid (burke) made this as a quick way to transport her body and attempt to hide her. That's also why there are signs of friction on her neck ..but I'm speculating.
That makes me wonder where the body s original location might have been

 

[kanzz]

Open letter to Burke Ramsey:

Her name is JonBenet. People will always remember her. She will always be more than you, better than you. And she will always carry your father's name. Unlike you, people will always care about her.

Yes, twenty years have passed, but still JonBenet is the shining star and you are but a bugaboo in the background. Nothing has changed except for the fact that more people support JonBenet now than they ever would have otherwise. Live with it, Burke.

 

[Ambitioned]

Open letter to Burke Ramsey:

Her name is JonBenet. People will always remember her. She will always be more than you, better than you. And she will always carry your father's name. Unlike you, people will always care about her.

Yes, twenty years have passed, but still JonBenet is the shining star and you are but a bugaboo in the background. Nothing has changed except for the fact that more people support JonBenet now than they ever would have otherwise. Live with it, Burke.

Perfectly stated! :loveyou: I hope you wrote that in as letter to the editor.

 

[TeaTime]

The BIGGEST bit of evidence that makes me think that BR was involved is that he was not afraid after his sister was murdered.

Every kid I have ever known was afraid of non-existent monsters under the bed or in the closet. This kid has his sister taken from her room down the hall and murdered and has no fears, he felt safe.

But, he wasn't curious about the morning phone call, the crying and screaming, the police and friends in the house or why he was being ushered out and over to the White's house, so maybe he just lacks emotion. And besides, he had to get on with life.

 

[kanzz]

The BIGGEST bit of evidence that makes me think that BR was involved is that he was not afraid after his sister was murdered.

Every kid I have ever known was afraid of non-existent monsters under the bed or in the closet. This kid has his sister taken from her room down the hall and murdered and has no fears, he felt safe.

But, he wasn't curious about the morning phone call, the crying and screaming, the police and friends in the house or why he was being ushered out and over to the White's house, so maybe he just lacks emotion. And besides, he had to get on with life.

You're absolutely right, TeaTime. That IS the most telling piece - that he wasn't afraid, and that he was just getting on with life. Hell, that brat might just as well have been singing "Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead." To me, that's how telling it was.

 

[OliviaG1996]

The BIGGEST bit of evidence that makes me think that BR was involved is that he was not afraid after his sister was murdered.

Every kid I have ever known was afraid of non-existent monsters under the bed or in the closet. This kid has his sister taken from her room down the hall and murdered and has no fears, he felt safe.

But, he wasn't curious about the morning phone call, the crying and screaming, the police and friends in the house or why he was being ushered out and over to the White's house, so maybe he just lacks emotion. And besides, he had to get on with life.

To add to that, if BR knew one of his parents killed his sister "by accident", why wouldn't he show any signs of being scared or distrusting of them that morning, especially if this parent (or both) had violent tendencies before this?

 

[Tortoise]

The BIGGEST bit of evidence that makes me think that BR was involved is that he was not afraid after his sister was murdered.

Every kid I have ever known was afraid of non-existent monsters under the bed or in the closet. This kid has his sister taken from her room down the hall and murdered and has no fears, he felt safe.

But, he wasn't curious about the morning phone call, the crying and screaming, the police and friends in the house or why he was being ushered out and over to the White's house, so maybe he just lacks emotion. And besides, he had to get on with life.

Except, he said, as a child, he was scared. And Officer French said he was crying as he walked to the car. And he was curious, we heard him in the background of the call asking questions.