Was Burke Involved? # 4

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Wasp27 said:
He did cry. Unless you were physically present with him these last 20 years then how do you know he never cried? Again, people go through all sorts of trauma and yes, they move on. They're not sobbing on floor every day for two decades.
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So you were with him and saw him cry?
 
It's possible that the fecal smearing and the molestation were connected. I was going to post some links here to something known as "paraphilia" but the information in the links is so graphic I thought it best to let each person Google the word if you want to. Basically, one form of paraphilia (one of many) involves the merging of elimination and sexual aggression, experimentation, or gratification. In some cases fecal smearing and sexual acts are combined, in some the sight or smell or act of producing feces also produces arousal, and in others gratification is achieved by applying the feces to other persons or to someone else's personal items or personal space.

In some articles I read, these behaviors began in early childhood, when a child found the act of elimination pleasurable and later it became blended with other pleasurable acts.

The fecal smearing in the Ramsey house may involve much more than potty training problems and/or the desire to ruin something that belonged to JonBenet, like her box of candy. It might have been intricately involved also with the molestation and with everything that happened Christmas night.
 
DeDee said:
His strangest reaction to his mother's death threat was fecal smearing. That is not normal behavior for a 4yo. It became an escalating problem before JB died. Her box of chocolates tells us that much.*snip*
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According to Kolar in his ama, that box was never collected for testing so, to me, it's rather disingenuous to say whose fecal matter (if that's what it is) it was.
 
icedtea4me said:
According to Kolar in his ama, that box was never collected for testing so, to me, it's rather disingenuous to say whose fecal matter (if that's what it is) it was.
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Well its a little coincidental that they find chocolates with what they think is feces smeared on them, then later learn from the housekeeper that Burke had a habit of smearing feces on things. But you're right, probably just a coincidence.
 
andreww said:
Give your head a shake. Nothing about Burke Ramsey's "performance" was normal. What little he has said about that night has been contradictory to what his parents have said as well.

And I'll save you time because I know that you are going to play stupid about that as well...

Parents: We carried Jonbenet upstairs
Burke: Jonbenet walked up in front of me

Parents: Burke was asleep until after the cops arrived
Burke: I was awake the whole time

Parents: What flashlight?
Burke: I used the flashlight to sneak downstairs

This kid said very little about that night, yet every word out of his mouth is at odds with the parents story. Why?
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I don't know about the playing dumb part.

But, the ransom note, along with inconsistencies like those you listed, are the primary reasons the IDI theory hasn't held any weight in my mind for more than a decade.
 
yllek said:
I don't know about the playing dumb part.

But, the ransom note, along with inconsistencies like those you listed, are the primary reasons the IDI theory hasn't held any weight in my mind for more than a decade.
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I think the parents immediate reluctance to be interviewed was what convinced me that this was an inside job. I felt that their TV appearances were more acting than genuine as well. As far as Burke's involvement, its hard to say when I seriously started thinking about him as the main suspect. I do remember early in the investigation being curious about him but let that go when Thomas said that he was a normal kid and he felt sorry for him. I don't know what Thomas was thinking because that kid seemed anything but normal in the interviews I've seen. I guess he was blinded by the fact that he saw so much deception from Patsy and he didn't stop to think that the deception was to protect Burke.
 
This is for Wasp who thinks there was in intruder and that half of everything I posted has been 'debunked".


TeaTime said:
I'll take the bait:

Kidnappers take their victims away, as do sexually motivated child predators. Criminologists tell us these statements are true. Kidnappers take the victim from the site of abduction and child predators take the child to a private location so that there is less chance of being apprehended in the act. I am sure you are not suggesting that these facts are debunked.

I am sure you can find a case where a kidnapper did not take the child from the scene of the abduction, instead killing the child on the spot, but I do not think you will find one who left the child in its home with a 2.5 page ransom note as well. I am sure you can find a case where a child sexual predator offended in the child's home while the parents slept and murdered the child and hid it's body in the home, but again not with a ransom note.

Mothers do not write RNs for strangers. Do you know of any case in which a mother wrote an RN for a stranger abduction of her child? If so I would like to read about it. There were over 200 similarities between the RN and PR's handwriting examples, far too many to ignore.

Fiber evidence links PR and JR to the staging. Fact. Fibers matching PR's jacket were entwined in the cording around the child's neck and fiber from JR's shirt were located on the child's vaginal area.

They lied, and lied and lied. FACT.

They had lawyers before the body was removed from the house. Fact. By the afternoon, Bynum had contacted the law firm that would represent the R's, arrangements were made and FW was interviewed by them and their investigators and the body was not removed from the house until 8pm in the evening.

They wouldn't talk to LE for 4 months. FACT. Their first interview with LE was April 1997, 4 months after the murder.i

They tried to make arrangements to leave Boulder within 1/2 hour of finding the body. FACT. As observed and reported by LE on the scene.

Prior sexual abuse. FACT. As reported on the autopsy report by the ME. CHRONIC sexual abuse evidence by an eroded hymen and healing injuries in the vagina.

No signs of forced entry. Fact. As reported by the first officers on the scene as well as by CSI analysts who took apart locks to determine if they were jimmied.

"He didn't mean to kill her, he wrapped her in a blanket." FACT. Stated by JR as witnessed by their own preacher as JR carried JBR's body up the basement stairs.

"We didn't mean for this to happen." FACT. Stated by PR to a friend as she lamented at the Fernies' house on the night of the murder.

"This is an inside job." FACT. Stated by JR to Det. Arndt.

"Burke was asleep", "we didn't know it but Burke was awake", Burke is on the 911 call. FACT. Stated by the parents and concluded by investigators. The enhanced 911 call was played for the GJ which only hears and sees credible evidence.

JR did not mention the broken window to anyone. FACT. JR went into the basement before anyone else, ostensibly looking for entry/exit points, noticed the window he had broken earlier that year but didn't mention it, or his trip into the basement, to anyone until FW went with him down there.
.
They pretended that the damaged door knob was new when all their friends knew it had been damaged a long time ago. FACT. The story ran in the NE and was the turning point for the Fernies' support of the Rameys because they knew that the door lock had been damaged long before the murder. However, the Ramseys allowed that story to continue to confuse the case and did not admit that it was damaged long before the murder. Why would they allow a falsehood to enter the case? What purpose would it serve?

"I didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it and . . we didn't know who did it." FACT. A direct quote of PR during her interview with LE.

"Keep your babies close" says PR while JR mouths the words in CNN interview. FACT. Direct quote of PR during CNN interview and the video shows JR mouthing the words as she speaks.

The RN was from PR's notepad, using her pen and in her linguistics, her letter style and her penmanship. FACT. Established by forensic analysis of the pad and pen, notably PR's style of writing and word use.

The paintbrush was PR's. FACT. Bristled end found in her paint tray.

Burke has High Tech boots despite PR and JR claiming complete ignorance of what these were. FACT. BR admitted he had boots with compasses on them (High Techs) and there is a photo of him wearing the boots which PR bought for him and which she denied knowing anything about. Then BR explains on DP how his boot prints would be in the WC, "I was in the basement all the time., so. . ."

They wouldn't ID their own flashlight, which was wiped clean of prints and which was loaded with batteries which were also wiped clean of prints. FACT. From interviews of the Rs by LE. Analysts could find no prints on these items as they had been wiped clean.

"Santa" fed her pineapple from a bowl with prints from PR and BR on it, with a 'too big", "good" spoon, next to a glass with BR's prints on their own kitchen table and PR just couldn't comprehend who would serve pineapple that way. BR nearly choked when he saw of photo of the bowl of pineapple and acted as though he had no idea what was in it. FACTS. The Rs tried to suggest that Santa fed her pineapple, both parents scrambled to distance themselves from the bowl and it's contents by stating things like 'I would never serve it that way", "that spoon is too big", "that is the good silver, not from the kitchen". BR nearly crapped his pants when shown a photo of the bowl of pineapple and asked if he could recognize what was in it - he couldn't, despite it being obvious. Read the transcripts and watch BR in the video of his social worker interview.

"She was in a red turtleneck." FACT. Quoted from PR by first responders when asked what JBR wore to bed.,

"She walked upstairs on her own." FACT. Quote of BR when asked how JBR got into the house and upstairs that night.

"JR carried her upstairs." FACT. Quotes of both PR and JR.

BR went downstairs, alone, after everyone else was asleep and was there at the time that the head injury would have been sustained. FACT. From the mouth of BR during the Dr. Phil interview. Timing concluded by statements made by the family about arrival at home time and bed time, the autopsy report, the estimated time of death and the estimated time between the head blow and the strangulation.

BR pretended to be asleep and his parents pretended he was asleep despite him being awake and present with them at the time of the 911 call. FACT. BR told us he pretended to be asleep as did his parents yet he was awake and present for the 911 call and his friends parents stated that he was an early riser, never known to sleep past 5 am, and surely not until 7am as suggested by the parents on that morning.

"We're not speaking to you. FACT. JR is heard saying this very clearly on the 911 tape.

"I found her at 11:00." FACT. JR quoted by Melinda's BF as to what JR said when he confronted his older kids about JBR's death.

"We aren't angry. We forgive the killer. We just want to know why." (7 days after the murder)
FACT. Parents from the CNN interview 7 days post murder.

GJ indicted both parents for child abuse resulting in death and for being accessories after the fact by helping the murderer, whom they knew to be the murderer, avoid consequences.
FACT. Read the GJ documents which were made public.

There was no intruder. It was a myth invented by Lou Smit who never saw the actual crime scene or the body and who came up with a theory, after having a religious experience in the Ramsey car praying with them, that he fitted with hand picked evidence to support his claim while ignoring all evidence that proved the complete absence of an intruder.
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FACT. Lou Smit was brought into the case long after the crime scene had been processed, in fact, the house had been emptied of all contents by movers, long after JBR was buried, prayed with the Rs in their vehicle and determined that these good Christians could not have killed their child, then proceeded to do what no detective does - fit the evidence to a theory and exclude all evidence that didn't fit the theory.

Wasp, you wrote that you have followed this case for 20 years. Perhaps you have not spent the time to study the evidence in depth as many here have for if so, you could not possibly say that half of these statements were debunked and expect to be taken seriously.

You are entitled to your opinion on everything but if you state that something was debunked, be prepared to be called out on it.
 
Rott Mom said:
Also, going back to BR's interview w/ DP - Keep in mind, LW is DP's attorney. The words that
haunt me from DP re BR - "he's socially ackward". OMG - he's a grown man. How much more
coddling is he going to get? Sorry - Rant!!!
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Oh, I see. So, according to you, it's absolutely, positively 100% impossible for any adult to be socially awkward.
 
Ambitioned said:
And the coldness/detachment. When he was being questioned about what happened, he was asked if he had any questions for the cops. He said yes and then, "Is that a real Rolex?" :shocked2: Wtf?!

Just getting on with his life I suppose.
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It looks like you've never heard of people who distract themselves with other things so they don't have to face something horrible.
 
TeaTime said:
No theory is worshiped here but the intruder theory is too ridiculous to consider. We may as well discuss aliens from outer space as an intruder - both are fiction.
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And both have been discussed here many times lol.
 
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