UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #11

[db09striker]

I've asked this too jessie. I know we keep hearing he couldn't have walked out but we did more or less prove a few threads ago that looms lane could have been a way out. I know they searched the route back to Hon but don't know at what point they started. With the unconfirmed sightings I was wondering if the times and the route matched at all. E.g. did they search from the A14 north to Hon only or where?

It's so confusing.

A few mentions online saying he could not have left that horseshoe area without being seen on CCTV, but also people mentioning that he could have done.

A recent BBC article says:

Mr Mckeague turned right into a loading bay area, known as the "Horseshoe", behind Greggs, at 03:25 BST.

The area is closed off by buildings and the rooftops have been searched and analysed by police.It has been proven that an individual cannot leave the area on foot without being seen on CCTV, but Mr Mckeague was not caught on camera again.

 

[Jean-Claud]

I'm thinking either someone holding their end of night take away the same way as Corrie was, or maybe someone with their left arm in a sling? x

I see a small framed, short haired if any/balding gent, wearing poss green or similar T' shirt and some form of styled cargo pants, (poss DPM), dark boots, almost squaddie like in appearance, carrying an upside down guitar over his left shoulder?

 

[guruagain]

He could not have left "On Foot" without being seen is what has been said. I kind of agree with that. If he had walked back the way he came he would be seen by greenwoods cam , past cornhill on their camera, up the alley then the adnams cam would have picked him up, down Shortbrackland then some other private cameras would have seen him, anywhere else and you have dashcams, home cctv, witnesses etc.

 

[jessie]

He could not have left "On Foot" without being seen is what has been said. I kind of agree with that. If he had walked back the way he came he would be seen by greenwoods cam , past cornhill on their camera, up the alley then the adnams cam would have picked him up, down Shortbrackland then some other private cameras would have seen him, anywhere else and you have dashcams, home cctv, witnesses etc.

I do understand what you are saying, but in that case why are there not more CCTV images of these unidentified figures?

With CCTV covering the area surely better images of these final (6 is it?) figures could be made public?

This alone makes me think C was able to leave the HS without being seen on CCTV - it doesn't appear that CCTV has as much coverage as has been stated? imoo

 

[Shiressleuth]

The police have had twelve weeks and have details of only 4 vehicles, 1 of which has been discounted (the bin lorry). As they have identified the other 3 and are not in a hurry to follow them up I can only guess they are not important. So that leaves walking out around, over or thru the buildings or still in the buildings as the remaining options. Having seen the quality of the stills and cctv of the 40 or so people around at the time I think it would be very easy to leave unrecognised as a blob on the Cornhill camera. As the only sightings (unconfirmed) have been on foot we should give that option some credence IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I also remember it being said there were no flats in the horseshoe, then a week ago we find out about focus accomodation so we should not believe all we hear until we are satisfied ourselves 100%.

 

[db09striker]

I've never been a supporter of the bin lorry theory. Only for the simple fact I really can't see him climbing in a bin for any reason!

I honestly believe he got in a car, whether it was voluntary or not I keep changing my mind. I don't believe he was in BSE for long after we last seen him on CCTV. I do believe he is dead though, and my heart bleeds for his poor mother 

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People have been known to sleep in those big bins. People have been known to get crushed by bin lorries when the bin has been collected in the morning.

I don't know many people who would sleep in the entrance of a shop. I have never seen anyone do it except homeless people. I would not even contemplate it. So if he's happy to sleep there, I'm sure he'd sleep in a bin.

There have been times I have been so drunk and so knackered I can't be bothered to move. I think he got to that stage and just thought screw it - the most comfortable place to lie down is in this bin.


The car theory - well there is 1 car that hasn't been ruled out and was there 'apparently for no real reason' (Whatever that means'. I believe every other car there has been ruled out. No idea why 3 months down the line - there seemingly isn't more Police work on this. If Corrie did get into a car dead or alive, voluntarily or un-voluntarily who could this 'murderer' have been?......

- A complete stranger that was out to murder a stranger?.......how often does that happen? Must be extremely rare?

- A stranger that tried to mug Corrie and ended up killing him so chucked Corrie in his boot and drove off?

- A stranger that got chatting to Corrie and offered him a lift or a place to stay, something went wrong, maybe they did drugs, Corrie died, the stranger has Corrie's body somewhere?

- A friend he had arranged to meet. Unlikely a friend would kill him + surely the Police would be able to trace any messages/calls Corrie had with friends.

- A planned hook-up, maybe with someone from a dating site. Though rare for a woman to kill a man? So maybe a guy posed as a girl or maybe Corrie was on Grindr (there have been a few recent news stories about men on Grindr killing men they meet). Though surely a car would be seen coming to pick Corrie up? I haven't read anything about cars coming to that horseshoe area, just about the cars that were already parked there. Also wouldn't Police be able to get hold of any messages sent by dating apps/websites?


It would be good to know if the cars that were already parked there were the only ones in that horseshoe area all night and what times they left. Surely if any of those cars left within 2 hours of Corrie's last appearance on CCTV - those cars would be hunted down and the drivers spoken to and thoroughly investigated.

What are the police doing - if as I've heard - 1 of the cars/drivers has not been thoroughly investigated??????

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I do understand what you are saying, but in that case why are there not more CCTV images of these unidentified figures?

With CCTV covering the area surely better images of these final (6 is it?) figures could be made public?

This alone makes me think C was able to leave the HS without being seen on CCTV - it doesn't appear that CCTV has as much coverage as has been stated? imoo

I wonder if there are more images but the Police only release the ones just good enough so that the people themselves or someone close to them come forward?

I also think (YMMV) that it is quite difficult to picture multiple camera locations, factor in fixed and rotating ones and then work out where/how you could get by without being captured.

For example: Take the two people in the 03:26 Adnams CCTV. They were hugging the museum when walking toward McD's and *if* they stayed on that side and turned left to the horseshoe I don't think they would be captured on the Cornhill camera. They would if they turned right toward Looms Lane, though. So they could *in theory* go to a parked car in the horseshoe and Corrie blags a lift?

So I think it is possible to avoid one or maybe two cameras but not all three/four we know about. Am I making any sense here?

 

[suzyjackson]

I realize Corrie's mother and uncle have been very open in the media regarding their occupations so I'm not snipping this, but please folks, do not sleuth him to find this out.

If he has said what he does for a living in an interview or it is in MSM, that's fine. But if not, he's off limits to sleuthing.

Thanks

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to sleuth him, it was in connection with the posts about calling Corrie during breaks, I was wondering if he did the type of job where his phone useage would be limited to certain times of day

 

[Dcflag]

What does your mum see?

Sadly I left hers yesterday or I'd show her and ask her 😂 Every time over xmas I brought anything up she'd shake her head and be all conspiracy theory on me. More than meets the eye and all that.

 

[Inside_out]

People have been known to sleep in those big bins. People have been known to get crushed by bin lorries when the bin has been collected in the morning.

I don't know many people who would sleep in the entrance of a shop. I have never seen anyone do it except homeless people. I would not even contemplate it. So if he's happy to sleep there, I'm sure he'd sleep in a bin.

There have been times I have been so drunk and so knackered I can't be bothered to move. I think he got to that stage and just thought screw it - the most comfortable place to lie down is in this bin.


The car theory - well there is 1 car that hasn't been ruled out and was there 'apparently for no real reason' (Whatever that means'. I believe every other car there has been ruled out. No idea why 3 months down the line - there seemingly isn't more Police work on this. If Corrie did get into a car dead or alive, voluntarily or un-voluntarily who could this 'murderer' have been?......

- A complete stranger that was out to murder a stranger?.......how often does that happen? Must be extremely rare?

- A stranger that tried to mug Corrie and ended up killing him so chucked Corrie in his boot and drove off?

- A stranger that got chatting to Corrie and offered him a lift or a place to stay, something went wrong, maybe they did drugs, Corrie died, the stranger has Corrie's body somewhere?

- A friend he had arranged to meet. Unlikely a friend would kill him + surely the Police would be able to trace any messages/calls Corrie had with friends.

- A planned hook-up, maybe with someone from a dating site. Though rare for a woman to kill a man? So maybe a guy posed as a girl or maybe Corrie was on Grindr (there have been a few recent news stories about men on Grindr killing men they meet). Though surely a car would be seen coming to pick Corrie up? I haven't read anything about cars coming to that horseshoe area, just about the cars that were already parked there. Also wouldn't Police be able to get hold of any messages sent by dating apps/websites?


It would be good to know if the cars that were already parked there were the only ones in that horseshoe area all night and what times they left. Surely if any of those cars left within 2 hours of Corrie's last appearance on CCTV - those cars would be hunted down and the drivers spoken to and thoroughly investigated.

What are the police doing - if as I've heard - 1 of the cars/drivers has not been thoroughly investigated??????

Not sure if sleeping/climbing in bins is a regional thing or not? I've never seen or heard of anyone doing this where I live so maybe that's why it seems so alien to me?

I think I'm still swaying towards my original theory from week 3 and that's a meet up from tinder/grindr turned bad and his body has been dumped somewhere not searched yet.

The other theory I have is that he was meeting either a man or woman (?wife) of an American usaf personnel and it's went wrong from there. It doesn't sit right with me that the usaf bases haven't been searched or personnel questioned.

Dunno but I'm going with sexually motivated either way x

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[PickleWickle]

I concur with this post. However I'm sticking with the fact that Corrie went out, got intoxicated, arranged a rendezvous with someone either online or via text...

I then believe the said person had to travel to meet Corrie. Hence him sitting down and dozing off in the doorway for an hour or so after getting food as he waited. From there I believe Corrie met someone in a discrete place and subsequently was driven off and the we now have a missing person.

The recent Stephen Port case shows how the murky world of dating and sex sites and how anyone from any background can get caught up In it.

The being asleep in the bin is however far fetched but very much realistically possible.

An interesting point I thought of earlier. If I'm right In saying Corrie was ejected from the club for being drunk. In my experience that's somewhat over the top. Is it possible he had words with the doorman? Could this be a line of enquiry?

 

[Muriel MayBee]

I concur with this post. However I'm sticking with the fact that Corrie went out, got intoxicated, arranged a rendezvous with someone either online or via text...

I then believe the said person had to travel to meet Corrie. Hence him sitting down and dozing off in the doorway for an hour or so after getting food as he waited. From there I believe Corrie met someone in a discrete place and subsequently was driven off and the we now have a missing person.

The recent Stephen Port case shows how the murky world of dating and sex sites and how anyone from any background can get caught up In it.

The being asleep in the bin is however far fetched but very much realistically possible.

An interesting point I thought of earlier. If I'm right In saying Corrie was ejected from the club for being drunk. In my experience that's somewhat over the top. Is it possible he had words with the doorman? Could this be a line of enquiry?

OK fellas you've had a lot to drink - are you up to a hook up? Are we looking at something not very realistic?

 

[MidsummersDay]

It's so confusing.

A few mentions online saying he could not have left that horseshoe area without being seen on CCTV, but also people mentioning that he could have done.

A recent BBC article says:

Mr Mckeague turned right into a loading bay area, known as the "Horseshoe", behind Greggs, at 03:25 BST.

The area is closed off by buildings and the rooftops have been searched and analysed by police.It has been proven that an individual cannot leave the area on foot without being seen on CCTV, but Mr Mckeague was not caught on camera again.

I don't see as confusing db09.
I'm calling great piles of turtle dropping on this article as it's misleading.
Firstly, the area is NOT closed off by buildings. It's revered to as the 'Horseshoe' as it is a car/van/LGV vehicle turnaround area. A pedestrian walk through bisects the Tarmac turnaround. The is one way in/out for vehicles and three ways in/out for pedestrians.
Secondly, an individual CAN leave the 'Horseshoe' area on foot without being seen or caught on CCTV. It's a rarity granted, but it can be done. The chances of Corrie being in the short window of opportunity when the Greenwoods camera points the other way is slim but possible.
We do NOT know if he was caught on camera again as the released CCTV footage has been selective to say the least (IMHO) and very, very localised. We DO NOT know if he was caught on camera alighting a vehicle in the 'Horseshoe', inside a vehicle heading from the 'Horseshoe', or missing the CCTV momentarily and then alighting a vehicle as Short Brackland starts proper.

Poor newspaper reporting and shoddy editing by the media at work again. I make no wonder we're on Thread 10!!


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[MidsummersDay]

I see a small framed, short haired if any/balding gent, wearing poss green or similar T' shirt and some form of styled cargo pants, (poss DPM), dark boots, almost squaddie like in appearance, carrying an upside down guitar over his left shoulder?

I'm not feeling that Jean Claud. I'm not sure (as macho as I am) that I'd feel comfortable or safe with a guitar blocking 180' of my vision at night.


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[MidsummersDay]

I think we need to conclude where our consensus by our forum voting is so far. I'll do another poll in the new year when we can settle the dust on what we're deliberating at the moment if you wish?

Corrie left the night club and arranged a hook up.
Corrie goes to 'Horseshoe' area to meet hook up.

INSERT THEORIES HERE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Focus involvement.
Harmed on scene and driven away.
Driven away and harmed.
Driven away and befell An injury.
Etc...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Corrie has an accident/Corrie is harmed and disposed off.


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[Dcflag]

I still think prearranged lift and still alive. I see no evidence yet to say otherwise. Phone in the bin deliberately.

 

[lusijay]

“An interesting point I thought of earlier. If I'm right In saying Corrie was ejected from the club for being drunk. In my experience that's somewhat over the top. Is it possible he had words with the doorman? Could this be a line of enquiry?”


Good point here. I have just asked my partner about this as he has been a doorman for 25 years. In all that time he has never ejected someone for being too drunk. Normally it is the bar staff who will refuse to continue serving a very drunk person more alcoholic drinks, but the door staff are there in case stuff kicks off mainly along with preventing banned items being taken in the establishment. He said the only scenario he can think of where he would eject someone who did nothing wrong, would be if he knew of a threat to their safety, in which case he would explain that it’s best that they leave as they may be too drunk to handle themselves or he just doesn’t want them getting hurt.


As you can imagine we have many friends who are also doormen as they work closely together, and to me it depends on the age of the doormen and the amount of years experience as to what type of doorman they are. The younger ones tend to be employed by G4S and other security companies who pay minimum wage and teach you how to calm people down, “open palms and speak softly” approach kind of stuff. They will often avoid confrontation and not always be able to handle serious situations. The old school doormen who tend to be 35+, who have been working the doors for years will probably have started before there were such things as SIA badges, when you had to be a bit rough around the edges to get the job, no criminal record restrictions, and so learnt the old school way and like a fight and can handle themselves. I find all door staff have a cockiness about them, and a hard man attitude, rightly or wrongly (and this includes my partner!)


Just thought i’d shed some light on how the door security system in the UK is, from an insider angle.


Can anyone link the interview with the door staff?


Hopes this helps in case the doorman avenue gets looked into further.


xx

 

[db09striker]

I don't see as confusing db09.
I'm calling great piles of turtle dropping on this article as it's misleading.

Poor newspaper reporting and shoddy editing by the media at work again. I make no wonder we're on Thread 10!!

It is confusing as I have no idea what the truth is.

The media (not just the BBC) have written that it is impossible to leave on foot without being seen on CCTV.
Corrie's Mum has said herself that he would have needed to do some 'serious parkour' to avoid CCTV. If his Mum believes this when she is pretty outspoken about the Police's investigating into her son's disappearance then it makes me think it is probably fact.

But, like you I have my doubts, and I also, as you also said, have doubts on the competence of the people checking the CCTV. He may well be on CCTV leaving - though someone may have missed it.

It is pretty key to know the answer to this.

It is a joke that Corrie's Mum feels she has to do her own thorough investigating as well as get so much input from the public and get a private investigator in.

I may be completely wrong, but on the face of it this case seems like one that should be fairly easy to solve. 3 months and we don't really know anything. There are still people to be identified, cars still to be identified etc etc...

 

[db09striker]

I concur with this post. However I'm sticking with the fact that Corrie went out, got intoxicated, arranged a rendezvous with someone either online or via text...

The being asleep in the bin is however far fetched but very much realistically possible.

An interesting point I thought of earlier. If I'm right In saying Corrie was ejected from the club for being drunk. In my experience that's somewhat over the top. Is it possible he had words with the doorman? Could this be a line of enquiry?

Being asleep in the bin isn't far fetched. It is relatively common. Just google it and you will see many stories of people sleeping in bins and being crushed to death on collection. I remember hearing on the news about it happening to someone a few years back so that is why this theory makes sense to me, especially as Corrie has seemingly disappeared into thin air.


If the theory of him meeting up with someone is true. Meeting up with someone at 3am is a little strange. To me he seems to be in a state of intoxication where he isn't thinking straight, in that state you don't really think too much about what you are doing, you can't function too well, you just want to lie down. He doesn't seem to be in great shape for a hook-up. Also - wouldn't there be records of any messages/calls he had with anyone he would have hooked up with? I am not sure what data is kept/given out by apps/websites/phone networks to police. Also - apparently he could not leave that horse-shoe area on foot, so if someone picked him up - that vehicle would have been seen on CCTV.

So I don't really agree with this theory.


I don't think the doorman has anything to do with it for many reasons. I'd expect there was more to it than 'being drunk', probably more like doing drunken things..... If you are falling all over the place, harassing people, being sick, being a nuisance - you can get kicked out.