WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

[mrseeker]

Do you know for definite he picked that name because it meant something to him then? I thought we were still in between whether it meant something or whether it was just a name. I mean, like I said up thread, my username is not my real name but it's what people call me, it means something to me, so I do agree it meant something to him.

It's a fairly obscure literary name, and that character tries to hang himself. It could be a simple as a macabre private joke.

 

[Brainy]

I do think he was contemplating suicide if not planning it. I just think he chose that moment more suddenly. He would not have to die of exposure by walking into the wilderness. He could gave hung himself on a tree. I wonder if he realized he was running out of money. Could there be a western union window somewhere nearby? Its too many years to check on memories, but perhaps he was growing more desperate. I brought up the wilderness, because he seems to have gone pretty far to hide his identity, but wouldn't had worked even better if he hid his own body so to speak by walking miles away from everyone? I not sure he thought it all through, or perhaps just reached a point it did not matter.

Mrseeker, interesting thoughts shared by you. Thank you. It could have happened, but certain details about his personality explain why he just didn’t walk into wilderness to never be seen again. The way he neatly put his money on the table, the way he was groomed and dressed… he wanted it done nicely and cleanly and with certain privacy. I think hanging himself outside wouldn’t be so “clean”. He had the privacy in that tiny motel room. The way he carried out his suicide… it just doesn’t make me think that he did it because he became desperate in any sudden way. It was so meticulously planned. I do think Lyle picked this specific spot to die.
Like I mentioned in my previous spot, he was kneeling… he could have stood up and choose not to die. I know that lots of people who commit suicide and end up staying alive do regret attempting suicide. If it just a sudden decision, they’re just more likely to change their mind. I think he had thought about it for a while and even thought of specific ways of taking his own life.

 

[Brainy]

It's a fairly obscure literary name, and that character tries to hang himself. It could be a simple as a macabre private joke.

Yep. He could have just read the book shortly before his death and it kind of stuck with him as maybe he had contemplated hanging himself like the character.

 

[Brainy]

Side note: I don’t think Lyle was reported missing. If he was missing, he would be identified far more easily. There would be a match based on all the identifying information available on Lyle.
I don’t know how much time I have spend going through pages and pages of missing people, examining even those who even remotely be Lyle. Absolutely none… none fitting the description. Lyle has a very defined jaw line, eyebrows… easily identifiable facial features…
If you guys know the Grateful Doe case, he had been dead for years but he wasn’t identified until last year. His family never reported him missing, they just thought he went away and decided not to contact them again. I think his mom ended up reported him 18 yrs after his disappearance. This could be the case with Lyle as well. I think chances are pretty high that on one is looking for him. Perhaps his family has assumed over time that he went away and decided to start life over without keeping in touch with them.

 

[DakotaMayi]

It's a fairly obscure literary name, and that character tries to hang himself. It could be a simple as a macabre private joke.

Oh right. I knew this was a character name but didn't realise the connection between hanging.

 

[Roselvr]

I wonder if the authorities know who he was and never pursued it because he worked for them or maybe he was in witsec.

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His original LE that used to post here as coldcaseman is now the ME there. He is dedicated to identifying Lyle. He has done everything in his power to do that even contacted the FBI.

The only thing I don't think his LE knew about was that his records/ photos were released via Freedom of information act. There were supposed to be more files released that were stopped from what I heard. I recently tried to get files for a NY John Doe and was denied due to HIPAA laws.

I do think he was contemplating suicide if not planning it. I just think he chose that moment more suddenly. He would not have to die of exposure by walking into the wilderness. He could gave hung himself on a tree. I wonder if he realized he was running out of money. Could there be a western union window somewhere nearby? Its too many years to check on memories, but perhaps he was growing more desperate. I brought up the wilderness, because he seems to have gone pretty far to hide his identity, but wouldn't had worked even better if he hid his own body so to speak by walking miles away from everyone? I not sure he thought it all through, or perhaps just reached a point it did not matter.

You're right, he could have gone in the woods but wanted to be found.

Do you know for definite he picked that name because it meant something to him then? I thought we were still in between whether it meant something or whether it was just a name. I mean, like I said up thread, my username is not my real name but it's what people call me, it means something to me, so I do agree it meant something to him.

Until he is identified there's no way to know how he picked the name and if it is his real name

Someone mentioned that the name he assumed might have possibly been his real name. If it was his real name the authorities would be able to verify that. There is a social security number, driver's license and many other records and government system that would confirm his identity if his name was indeed Lyle Stevick. I mean, this person has had a job before, has paid taxes and has a credit histroy. Even the most low key, out of radar people can be confirmed and verified of their identity. In my opinion, and i believe it is pretty obvious with all the facts given that Lyle Stevick wasn't this young man's real name.

well, I think yeah, his name change did have everything to do with his plans of not wanting to be known or identified. I mean, this person had disposed of almost all personal belongings includin critical things like identification. He definitely didn't want to be identified, and if he thought he could be one day and took every single step that he could to make sure it is as challenging as it can be.

Every record is not online yet. We won't know if it's his name until he is identified.

 

[Buttons]

I don't believe Lyle Stevik was his real name. In the book, Lyle contemplates taking his own life but doesn't go through with it. It's too much of a coincidence, especially when you consider the fact that he also gave a fake address. He had no identification on his person and no belongings that could allude to who he was. He clearly wanted to obscure his identity but it's unclear as to why he felt the need to do so.

Speaking of the lengths he went to, I wonder how he'd feel if he knew how many people were trying to identify him - even going as far to seek isotope testing on his tooth enamel and hair. It's difficult because it seems as though he truly wished to depart from this life anonymously and one has to wonder if he had his reasons.

If he would have committed suicide in the woods, it's possible a family or young person could have discovered him and I imagine he knew that and knew how traumatizing it would be for them. He left more money than was necessary for the room, presumably as a sort of compensation, because he knew one person discovering his body would be traumatic enough. I think Lyle was considerate of others and that poses the question, was he obscuring who he was for someone else? I believe he checked in to that motel with every intention of committing suicide and could have concluded that it wouldn't matter to him if they knew who he was because he'd be gone but was thinking of those he was leaving behind. Perhaps he came from a family who considered suicide and depression (assuming he suffered with depression or a similar disorder) taboo and he didn't want to cause embarrassment, or he could have been ashamed of it himself. It could be simply because he wanted to shield his friends and family from grief. It could be because he was afraid someone would track him down if he used his real name and try to talk him out of it. There's so many possibilities and even if we were to learn of his real name tomorrow, we may never gain insight into his reasons for doing what he did.

As for being reported missing, Lori Ruff was only identified through familial DNA and was never in any missing persons database because she told her family not to look for her. It's not a stretch to believe Lyle could have told his loved ones the same.

 

[Equestrianista]

I wonder if they will ever do the same with Lyle's DNA as what they did with Lori Ruff's DNA? If they could find a familial DNA match, then like with Lori, they could show them his photo and see if they recognize him...

Any talk of this being done?

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

His original LE that used to post here as coldcaseman is now the ME there. He is dedicated to identifying Lyle. He has done everything in his power to do that even contacted the FBI.

The only thing I don't think his LE knew about was that his records/ photos were released via Freedom of information act. There were supposed to be more files released that were stopped from what I heard. I recently tried to get files for a NY John Doe and was denied due to HIPAA laws.



You're right, he could have gone in the woods but wanted to be found.



Until he is identified there's no way to know how he picked the name and if it is his real name



Every record is not online yet. We won't know if it's his name until he is identified.

I dont get why it would be stopped unless they knew who he was...unless that is standard practice.

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[Maggie_Mayz]

I wonder if they will ever do the same with Lyle's DNA as what they did with Lori Ruff's DNA? If they could find a familial DNA match, then like with Lori, they could show them his photo and see if they recognize him...

Any talk of this being done?

I am not sure it is possible.

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[Equestrianista]

Maggie_Mayz, why do you feel it would not be possible? Wouldn't it possibly yield the same outcome as Lori Ruff [aka Kimberly McLean] if they were to at least try the exact same technique with Lyle?

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Maggie_Mayz, why do you feel it would not be possible? Wouldn't it possibly yield the same outcome as Lori Ruff [aka Kimberly McLean] if they were to at least try the exact same technique with Lyle?

I think there was a discussion about this earlier in the thread. I think the type of DNA that is required they do not have.

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[Roselvr]

I think there was a discussion about this earlier in the thread. I think the type of DNA that is required they do not have.

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You're not remembering right. Coleen asked LE, I don't know the answer

I dont get why it would be stopped unless they knew who he was...unless that is standard practice.

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How about his family didn't need to see pics of him hanging

 

[Roselvr]

His original LE that used to post here as coldcaseman is now the ME there. He is dedicated to identifying Lyle. He has done everything in his power to do that even contacted the FBI.

The only thing I don't think his LE knew about was that his records/ photos were released via Freedom of information act. There were supposed to be more files released that were stopped from what I heard. I recently tried to get files for a NY John Doe and was denied due to HIPAA laws.

You're right, he could have gone in the woods but wanted to be found.

Until he is identified there's no way to know how he picked the name and if it is his real name

Every record is not online yet. We won't know if it's his name until he is identified.

I dont get why it would be stopped unless they knew who he was...unless that is standard practice.

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How about his family didn't need to see pics of him hanging

I shouldn't reply until I'm fully awake. It's not standard practice to release the whole file or photos of Doe's. For one it would violate HIPAA laws if the person was alive. Another is they do not want family seeing them. Imagine being Lyle's mother, father, wife, sibling or other family and seeing the photos of him hanging. What if Lyle had a small child when he killed himself? That child could be an adult now. Imagine how shocking it would be to see photos of your father hanging himself after going 15+ years wondering why he just left out of your life

I think there was a discussion about this earlier in the thread. I think the type of DNA that is required they do not have.

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You're not remembering right. Coleen asked LE, I don't know the answer

The sleuths on reddit asked Colleen Fitzpatrick if she'd consider working Lyle's case. She said yes, went to LE to ask if they wanted her help. I've given the ME (coldcaseman) info on how this is done about 2 years ago, so he has had time to think about it. I went to reddit a few weeks ago looking to see if there was an update, there is not so we do not know what's going on other then Colleen asked.

 

[Brainy]

I wonder if they will ever do the same with Lyle's DNA as what they did with Lori Ruff's DNA? If they could find a familial DNA match, then like with Lori, they could show them his photo and see if they recognize him...

Any talk of this being done?

You know, I have thought about that so much and wonder why DNA analysis hasn’t been done for Lyle.
I just find it so strange that they have so many details about Lyle but yet very little is known about who he was.

 

[Brainy]

I shouldn't reply until I'm fully awake. It's not standard practice to release the whole file or photos of Doe's. For one it would violate HIPAA laws if the person was alive. Another is they do not want family seeing them. Imagine being Lyle's mother, father, wife, sibling or other family and seeing the photos of him hanging. What if Lyle had a small child when he killed himself? That child could be an adult now. Imagine how shocking it would be to see photos of your father hanging himself after going 15+ years wondering why he just left out of your life





The sleuths on reddit asked Colleen Fitzpatrick if she'd consider working Lyle's case. She said yes, went to LE to ask if they wanted her help. I've given the ME (coldcaseman) info on how this is done about 2 years ago, so he has had time to think about it. I went to reddit a few weeks ago looking to see if there was an update, there is not so we do not know what's going on other then Colleen asked.

How can we contact Colleen or the detectives working on Lyle’s case? It would be very helpful to learn why there hasn’t been any progress.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

Thanks.

 

[Maggie_Mayz]

I shouldn't reply until I'm fully awake. It's not standard practice to release the whole file or photos of Doe's. For one it would violate HIPAA laws if the person was alive. Another is they do not want family seeing them. Imagine being Lyle's mother, father, wife, sibling or other family and seeing the photos of him hanging. What if Lyle had a small child when he killed himself? That child could be an adult now. Imagine how shocking it would be to see photos of your father hanging himself after going 15+ years wondering why he just left out of your life





The sleuths on reddit asked Colleen Fitzpatrick if she'd consider working Lyle's case. She said yes, went to LE to ask if they wanted her help. I've given the ME (coldcaseman) info on how this is done about 2 years ago, so he has had time to think about it. I went to reddit a few weeks ago looking to see if there was an update, there is not so we do not know what's going on other then Colleen asked.

Thank you for this explanation and for jogging my memory now this would have been the better response first. I totally appreciate yor clarification amd viewpoint.

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[Buttons]

I spoke to Mr. Youmans via email today and he kindly explained the DNA situation to me:

I spoke at length with Colleen Fitzpatrick, the woman who solved the Lori Ruff case. The problem is, the DNA profile we have for Lyle is different than one you would get from a company like Ancestry. We need a Y-DNA profile, and from what I have learned, the profile is different. I had hoped to submit our profile to one of the Ancestry companies, but from what I understand, they won’t cooperate, as they don’t want to be associated with Law Enforcement. I understand their reasoning, as they don’t want people to submit a saliva sample to find their ancestors, and wind up getting arrested for some old crime, where their DNA was in CODIS. I’ve tried to get Lyle’s DNA profile from the University of North Texas DNA database, but they won’t release it to me. They said they would give it to another government lab, as the DNA sequence is so long, that a lab would know which section to compare.

If I had known about companies like Ancestry and 23 and me back in 2001, I probably could have obtained a saliva sample from Lyle and submitted it to the private company, but all we took was a blood sample that I submitted to the University of North Texas, and the profile was run through CODIS.

Lane Youmans
Grays Harbor Coroner

 

[Brainy]

I spoke to Mr. Youmans via email today and he kindly explained the DNA situation to me:

This just sent chills down my spine… that a company would simply refuse to cooperate. Well, I do understand that they do not want to be tied to something that may potentially harm them, it still doesn’t justify why they just refused to help. It just made me think of the greedy, small-minded world that we live in. Simple steps that can be taken to give this young man back his name is not in their interest. Of course it wouldn’t be. To them, he was just another, dead, gone and forgotten, nobody of any high value. I bet if he was connected to a celebrity their company and the media would be all over this case, and guess why, because people like this in business world are who we have in our society… people who are only focused on their side of the story.