GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #4 *Arrests*

[Gaius]

My point of view is that the bargaining process is difficult because unbalanced. One side has not much to put on the table. The other side has much to be foregone if more mistakes are made. Both sides are savvy players.

In the US, a homicide could be (1) first degree murder, (2) murder (second degree), (3) voluntary manslaughter, (4) involuntary manslaughter, and (5) justifiable homicide. However, Florida jurisdiction could be different.
KM will plea, sooner or later. To date, she did not get the deal she and her lawyers wish to get, yet. It is obvious that her lawyers would like something such as 3rd or 4th degree. Also, there is perhaps a bargain about “to what extent she will sing? Will it be for a short aria? Will it be for the full opera?”
The more KM sings, the closer she goes toward 1st or 2nd degree. If she does not sing at all, it appears that the State of Florida will keep the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] degree, for sure. What should she do?
KM has been charged with 1st degree, then 2nd degree, and then 1st again. In the published video, LR says: “Katie is the woman in the middle doing everything. It’s all because of Katie, man.” LR pleaded guilty to 2nd degree and was sentenced.
Comparing the roles of LR and KM, if LR is to be believed (he has been believed by the court of law), LR was the driver of the triggerman. He knew only that it is a hit instead of a burglary when they were in town. LR got 2nd degree.
On the other hand, KM is indicted for the recruitment of lover #1 to kill, described in the Probable Cause of lover #1 by “Call records show Magbanua as one of Charlie’s top contacts” as an active participant in the chain of actions, and pointed by the LR video as “It’s all because of Kathie, man.” Is she equally responsible as LR, or more responsible than LR? Does she deserve 2nd degree also?
Could it be the case that the State of Florida says “1st degree, without capital punishment”? Could it be the case that KM and her lawyers say “4th degree”? The delay appears to be about bargain. The lawyers are holding up with a hope of the best affordable deal.
It would be very surprising if the State of Florida would accept anything less than the 2nd degree, for KM. Also, the questions about “2nd degree for what? 3rd degree for what?” are important parts of the bargain. Or, should I write, “2nd degree for how many probable actors? 3rd degree for how many probable actors?” CBSNEWS reported LR saying “He also said the trio were hired because Markel’s ex-wife wanted full custody of their two children.” Has WA some responsibility in this, according to the State of Florida, based on such statement? Then, there were already some attempts by the State of Florida to cast a large net, “Probable cause affidavit for CA”, but it did not work. Thus, the State of Florida eyes CA. Then, their parents’ name also appeared in several pages of those court documents, sometimes in a less than inactive by-stander ways. It could be the case that the State of Florida will not let go of this KM witness with less than full disclosure of the role of all actors, from the Soprano to the Coloratura to the Soubrette to whoever played in the scene!

 

[DexterMorgan]

Would it be considered relevant if they were telling KM that she would go free, no need to squeal on the A family?

Is it clear to law professionals that she will serve time or could that advice be considered a possibility?

I am confusing myself...

I am asking if it looks suspicious if they tell her something that would be contrary to what most professionals think is in her future?

You could pay my doctor bills but still not be privileged to certain info due to the confidentiality clause.

Now of course you can refuse to pay for certain things. So if the Adelsons are paying; Then they would probably stop if she starts hinting at taking a plea deal. Idk

 

[Russian Blue]

I bet the billing stays up to date.

 

[lauriej]

I know for a fact CA monitors this thread. The dragnet is tightening.

..good to know.

..hi CA , and WA !

..I'm sure you realized a while back that it was rather idiotic of you to hire hitmen well within that 6 degrees of separation.

..oh well, too late for that now.

..LE aren't idiots.

..best be starting to get your affairs in order...pre arrests, trials, convictions.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Charlie was jealous of Dan jmo

 

[AS-W]

Yes. Weird family.
It's as though everyone except the brother in upstate NY worships at the alter of Wendy. She must not be made to be unhappy.

 

[TacoChip]

Charlie was jealous of Dan jmo

I don't know why you would think that, unless he was "in love" with his sister. As successful as DM was - CA was considerably more successful. Please elaborate. Also I never felt that the little snippet of video of her talking to police the day of the murder was credible. The only thing that makes her look innocent is when she mentions her brother's ongoing joke about hiring a hit-man.I am confused as to why she would say that guilty or innocent.
I think she knew about all of this from the start.

 

[TacoChip]

She must not be made to be unhappy.

Right? Look at what happened to the last person that made her unhappy, serious consequences.

 

[TacoChip]

An acquaintance of mine; who made me notice this sad story; has a point of view along the following lines. My point of view is different.

.

Thank you for the post, very interesting stuff!

 

[Razz]

I don't know why you would think that, unless he was "in love" with his sister. As successful as DM was - CA was considerably more successful. Please elaborate. Also I never felt that the little snippet of video of her talking to police the day of the murder was credible. The only thing that makes her look innocent is when she mentions her brother's ongoing joke about hiring a hit-man.I am confused as to why she would say that guilty or innocent.
I think she knew about all of this from the start.

Oh wow. CA more successful than Dan? I suspect Dan had a mind that even WA or CA could not keep up with. He met interesting people and traveled to different places. He was happy. (until he discovered the true WA). He had 2 boys. He had his religion. CA? He looks in mouths all day. He had a bevy of mindless girlfriends and boats and cars but the material things were/is not enough. He was never going to succeed in the eyes of his family or with others the way Dan did w/ his.
And all one has to do is look at CA and know he's empty. His brother-in-law had it. He doesn't and never will.

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[TacoChip]

Oh wow. CA more successful than Dan? I suspect Dan had a mind that even WA or CA could not keep up with. He met interesting people and traveled to different places. He was happy. (until he discovered the true WA). He had 2 boys. He had his religion. CA? He looks in mouths all day. He had a bevy of mindless girlfriends and boats and cars but the material things were/is not enough. He was never going to succeed in the eyes of his family or with others the way Dan did w/ his.
And all one has to do is look at CA and know he's empty. His brother-in-law had it. He doesn't and never will.


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I appreciate your perspective, point taken. I guess I see CA as a millionaire playboy who sleeps with attractive women, drives $100.000 cars and owns enough property that he could stop working anytime he chose. He seems to live life on his own term's. But yes DM was extremely successful as well, again your point is well taken.

 

[GordonX]

I appreciate your perspective, point taken. I guess I see CA as a millionaire playboy who sleeps with attractive women, drives $100.000 cars and owns enough property that he could stop working anytime he chose. He seems to live life on his own term's. But yes DM was extremely successful as well, again your point is well taken.

everything is not always what it appears. we don't know his true net worth but i think you're vastly overestimating it. properties and the cars could all be highly leveraged - and we're not even sure exactly what, if anything, he personally owns. assets do not necessarily equal net worth especially when you factor in liabilities. he has not been in practice that long so i question it. i'm sure he HAD a relatively high income $500K+ but if he was as reckless with his finances as he allegedly was with his personal life, i wouldn't be surprised if he's highly leveraged gambler, a big risk-taker, who thinks he's entitled, smarter than everyone else, and can't lose. now that his practice income stream has probably dried up, he could be really scrambling for the exits because he can't service the debt - especially given his mounting legal fees.

 

[Electric Sheep]

I don't know why you would think that, unless he was "in love" with his sister. As successful as DM was - CA was considerably more successful. Please elaborate.

Money can never buy respect, and DM was highly respected.

 

[minusfour]

How long has CA been in practice? 500K is am extremely high estimate for even a specialists income, half of that would still be very high. Being a dentist has it's cool side, at the end of those mouths are interesting people,(and you get to solve problems and work with your head and your hands), but CA seems to almost lack a sense of himself, the girlfriends, flirting with the tougher side etc, which could dovetail in to the family worshipping of Wendi.

 

[Electric Sheep]

How long has CA been in practice? 500K is am extremely high estimate for even a specialists income, half of that would still be very high. Being a dentist has it's cool side, at the end of those mouths are interesting people,(and you get to solve problems and work with your head and your hands), but CA seems to almost lack a sense of himself, the girlfriends, flirting with the tougher side etc, which could dovetail in to the family worshipping of Wendi.

If CA's fees are anything like those of my periodontist, then $500K is a conservative estimate, though I am in Boston, not Florida.

 

[cvaldez1975]

my sister is a dentist and owns her own practice and before overhead she cleared 60k a month. she isn't a specialist and her practice is small.

How long has CA been in practice? 500K is am extremely high estimate for even a specialists income, half of that would still be very high. Being a dentist has it's cool side, at the end of those mouths are interesting people,(and you get to solve problems and work with your head and your hands), but CA seems to almost lack a sense of himself, the girlfriends, flirting with the tougher side etc, which could dovetail in to the family worshipping of Wendi.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Without Harvey Adelsons smarts and properties. CA would still probably be a nobody.

He looks like the type to cheat his way through school since dad would make his career happen regardless.

JMO.

 

[minusfour]

my sister is a dentist and owns her own practice and before overhead she cleared 60k a month. she isn't a specialist and her practice is small.

I'm a dentist and own my own practice too, like you sister's, a small one. Most practice's run at about 60-70% overhead per month. (it might be higher for the "Institute" too, because the hardware used for implants, and the lab fees, and normally very high Some months are better than others too, 60K/month is pretty good, is it the same every month? My practice is closed for three weeks at the moment, for Christmas holidays, (we do have more holidays owed to employees than in the US per year), so we have no income, and stacks of bills, (and staff) that still need to be paid. Does your sister, or CA, have dental school loans outstanding? (Some graduates in the US are leaving dental school with debts of 500K, depending on what school they went to, most seem to be leaving with debts over 350K)

I'm not an American dentist, but lots of things are universal, and I do spend lots of time on American dental forums. Florida is notoriously oversupplied with dentists. The dental industry in the US has been dealt a crippling blow by the insurance industry for many years, patient expectations for out of pocket expense is very low. I know and agree, dentists bring in a lot of money. It is expensive to have even a simple filling done. But that does not translate to huge incomes for most. It may have used too, but it just doesn't now. It is a good income, but not fantastic. I would be seriously surprised if CA's before tax income, from dentistry,is 250K, before he got himself in the news.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I'm a dentist and own my own practice too, like you sister's, a small one. Most practice's run at about 60-70% overhead per month. (it might be higher for the "Institute" too, because the hardware used for implants, and the lab fees, and normally very high Some months are better than others too, 60K/month is pretty good, is it the same every month? My practice is closed for three weeks at the moment, for Christmas holidays, (we do have more holidays owed to employees than in the US per year), so we have no income, and stacks of bills, (and staff) that still need to be paid. Does your sister, or CA, have dental school loans outstanding? (Some graduates in the US are leaving dental school with debts of 500K, depending on what school they went to, most seem to be leaving with debts over 350K)

I'm not an American dentist, but lots of things are universal, and I do spend lots of time on American dental forums. Florida is notoriously oversupplied with dentists. The dental industry in the US has been dealt a crippling blow by the insurance industry for many years, patient expectations for out of pocket expense is very low. I know and agree, dentists bring in a lot of money. It is expensive to have even a simple filling done. But that does not translate to huge incomes for most. It may have used too, but it just doesn't now. It is a good income, but not fantastic. I would be seriously surprised if CA's before tax income, from dentistry,is 250K, before he got himself in the news.

You may be right, I do know her practice is pretty lucrative because she had continuing education and made her own crowns and did Invisalign as well. She actually broke her work wrist a few years ago and is trying to get fully disabled because she can't work to her full potential. she will get 10k tax free a month, I think she was making 25 or so take home when at her full potential. If she gets her disability she plans to work from home writing for dental journals and she will save on daycare for her two girls. Plus her husband got a new job that pays a lot more, he's an engineer but stayed w his company for years because of the flexibility/perks.

Anyways way off topic sorry I would think a snazzy practice in a ritzy area would make more. I know the A's are in the Miami area but I am not familiar w Florida. My sister lives in San Diego but her practice is in a working class area there.


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[Twister]

Anyone notice this, it seems to me that Lat and other usual sources have gone quiet of late? Maybe it was the holidays. Maybe Lat didn't like the reaction he got to his last post and realized he needed to dial back his Wendi-is-so-totally-innocent bias a bit, or just lower his profile. Maybe the wheels of justice are slowly turning.

Dan deserves justice. Why would Garcia and Rivera go to kill him, if they were not paid by someone? A serious question. What on Earth could be the credible, believable explanation that leaves a hired hit by the As just a fanciful fiction?