Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #11

[ShellyGale]

Okay, cool
So at least if there was one detective who suspected they were linked he would probably have looked for the missing clothing or evidence of a car going into the Karrakatta Cemetery then. It's such a straight run, just a couple of minutes up the road.

Slightly off.
It was suspected of being linked but nothing was absolutely certain until the first evidence of a link in 2009 , then the was the well known official link in 2015.

Certain top detectives had a hunch it was connected imo . Google Terry Gorman karrakatta detective

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[Grok]

Just using this to jump off. What annoys me is how people (police, society) put women into categories and use those categories to act as if "oh so-and-so couldn't have killed that person because she was a sex worker and he only killed 'good girls'" or the reverse of that. It is that kind of Madonna/*advertiser censored* dichotomy that has tripped up LE enforcement in the past and I still think they have a long way to come, tbh. How many women didn't come up on their radar because they havent fit the very strict mold of "blond, nice, middle class good girls". It is a very narrow view and does no one any favors.

I had a rant about that a while ago. I also think the families perpetuate the good girl image because if they don't the cops, media and public lose interest in the case. The forgotten women of Northbridge for example.

 

[123sniff]

Experts predicted CSK had potential to be Australia's worst serial killer. I wonder if Lisa Jane Brown got caught up in his net. Lisa was a working girl based out of Hyde Park in Northbridge and went missing in the early hours of Tuesday 10 November 1998. I lived next to the park when she was taken and we had a clear view from our front yard of the pathway leading into the park from Palmerston St. I remember seeing her there for a few weeks/months before she went missing and suspect she hadn't been working long as she was only 18. She always wore the same clothes – I remember how small she was and the light coloured blue denim jeans. My wife used to walk home from work in Perth and always had to change her path to avoid seedy stalkers. I asked her if she remembered being stalked by a white commodore station wagon but she can't recall specific vehicles.
Respectively Snipped.

There's been lots of discussions regarding other missing women around WA, but what strikes me about the CSK was he seemed to have a 'type'. Can someone please advise on whether serial killers are known to change their 'type' of victim (not MO)? Is it feasible we have a predator who starts off selecting 'nice' underwear to steal, and 'nice' girls to attack and then moves to street workers because they're an easier target?

 

[ShellyGale]

If you had easy access to a boat and you wanted to get rid of a body, surely that's easier and more efficient in most respects than trying to bury someone in the bush. I've spent a bit of time sailing with pro fishermen, some have a dark sense of humour and crack jokes for example, about how fast reef sharks can disappear a body.

The idea of a boat was canned when someone mentioned it. A one off trip to rotto for a long weekend is that so unusual? I'm not sure why people didn't like that theory.

 

[meticulously]

How is the search for SS going ? Many have tried to find s.s via private searching & sleuthing , what are the chances of a confession or info from the perpetrator of sarahs disappearance ? Surely that option should be exhausted before any other method is utilized ? If bra isn't responsible then the current searching could fail . Sorry to dampen on the great map work sleuthed lately. Im just not confident sarah will be located , as yet ...
Anyone concerned with the chances or will they never give up ?
#finding Sarah


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[ShellyGale]

Yes, I think they can change their type. Typically, whoever is the weakest they go for. I was reading this last night, busts a few myths.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

There's been lots of discussions regarding other missing women around WA, but what strikes me about the CSK was he seemed to have a 'type'. Can someone please advise on whether serial killers are known to change their 'type' of victim (not MO)? Is it feasible we have a predator who starts off selecting 'nice' underwear to steal, and 'nice' girls to attack and then moves to street workers because they're an easier target?

 

[CuriousChum]

I am not sure why there is so much time on the back door stuff. I really don't think CSK managed to get a girl out of the back entrance to the club to the carpark to abduct her....

I raised this question because the scenario I (and others) proposed was that it appeared from the CCTV footage that JR had a vested interest in someone inside the Conti Hotel, and most likely was an employee (read previous posts as to why).

MM, who approached JR, IMO did so briefly (20 secs) before turning back to Gugeri Street. Legs walking back are visible on CCTV (yes debatable but I am assuming its MM).

I proposed that the employee said to JR (either directly or indirectly, colleage etc) that he would finish up, get his car and pick her up, presumably at 12pm......knockoff time?? To do this, I asked the question “Can staff exit through a rear door to get to their cars?”.

If so (and it sounds like it was possible?), then presumable JR could have got impatient and decided to walk around to the carpark via Gugeri Street and meet then employee there, and was blitzed on the way, possibly my MM.
JMO

 

[123sniff]

How is the search for SS going ? Many have tried to find s.s via private searching & sleuthing , what are the chances of a confession or info from the perpetrator of sarahs disappearance ? Surely that option should be exhausted before any other method is utilized ? If bra isn't responsible then the current searching could fail . Sorry to dampen on the great map work sleuthed lately. Im just not confident sarah will be located , as yet ...
Anyone concerned with the chances or will they never give up ?
#finding Sarah


.

JR & CG were found by random passers-by. IMO if Sarah hasn't been stumbled upon in the last 20 years, she's most likely well-buried or in water.

 

[rhythymz]

Just thinking out loud here.... why does a guy on a good salary living seemingly quite modestly need to supplement income by selling lawn mowers? Just a hobby I guess.

Where was all that money going? Should we be thinking about some sort of addiction?

 

[Mel 1303]

Where was all that money going? Should we be thinking about some sort of addiction?

Computer equipment maybe? If he is a big gamer, he probably spends his time indoors on a computer. While he may not have spent much time on his yard, I reckon he has a great computer system.

 

[ShellyGale]

IMO yes we could be thinking of some sort of addiction or substance abuse where he was unable to control urges. It's possible the stress of relationships breaking up did it but that doesn't really explain such humble living when two are on good wages. There could be someone who was arrested for dealing around the Claremont area and did time for example, the police might be able to get some information off them. See if he was known.

Where was all that money going? Should we be thinking about some sort of addiction?

 

[Paldog]

Can someone offer any insight as to a loose timeline of the upcoming trial. The court appearance scheduled for the 25th is essentially just a "welfare check" on the accused isn't it? After that, what will the next appreance be ie indictment etc

 

[SherlockSleuth]

Where was all that money going? Should we be thinking about some sort of addiction?

I didn't mean to kickstart a whole new so-called 'line of inquiry', but just thought it was worth keeping in backs of minds.

People do become addicted to prostitutes and other things, so it *could* explain a few things, but it's a long shot at the moment & there's no direct evidence to support it.

Having said that, do I think the CSK engaged the services of prostitutes? Absolutely. Adrian Bailey certainly did. Green River Killer certainly did. Just on the GRK, his kill rate went down when in a relationship. I suspect the same is true for CSK.

 

[CSK?]

There's been lots of discussions regarding other missing women around WA, but what strikes me about the CSK was he seemed to have a 'type'. Can someone please advise on whether serial killers are known to change their 'type' of victim (not MO)? Is it feasible we have a predator who starts off selecting 'nice' underwear to steal, and 'nice' girls to attack and then moves to street workers because they're an easier target?

The CSK definitely had a type, upper class, blonde & attractive, but that is not to say he would never take victims that do not fit that profile. It is very common for serial killers to mix up or change victim type completely, especially when your hunting ground is now known to everyone in Perth including LE.


He chose high risk targets which soon attracted a lot of police and media attention, what better way to fly under the radar than changing victim type to prostitutes etc whom would never be linked unless DNA was matched.

 

[rhythymz]

Can someone offer any insight as to a loose timeline of the upcoming trial. The court appearance scheduled for the 25th is essentially just a "welfare check" on the accused isn't it? After that, what will the next appreance be ie indictment etc

As an indicator, the head-in-the-bag that washed up on Rottnest Island in January 2013 followed by arrests soon after resulted in a trial in October 2014. That was a far less complex matter so my best guess is for a trial in late 2018 at the earliest.

 

[apoptosisfutz]

IMO yes we could be thinking of some sort of addiction or substance abuse where he was unable to control urges. It's possible the stress of relationships breaking up did it but that doesn't really explain such humble living when two are on good wages. There could be someone who was arrested for dealing around the Claremont area and did time for example, the police might be able to get some information off them. See if he was known.

IMO, unlikely to be substance addiction. He seems to be the type of person who needs to be in control of himself and others from what is alleged. It seems too risky if he got caught drug driving, possession of drugs etc. He would be gone. I wonder if he put money into the SD name? Holidays?....

 

[CP345]

Where was all that money going? Should we be thinking about some sort of addiction?

He was saving up in case he needed a QC one day....

 

[The Weaver]

IMO yes we could be thinking of some sort of addiction or substance abuse where he was unable to control urges. It's possible the stress of relationships breaking up did it but that doesn't really explain such humble living when two are on good wages. There could be someone who was arrested for dealing around the Claremont area and did time for example, the police might be able to get some information off them. See if he was known.

He might just simply have a lot of money in the bank

 

[ShellyGale]

LOL He's a real goes right to the edge risk taker, snow dropping, breaking into womens houses when they're asleep and scooping women up off the streets almost under the nose of CCTV when the police knew there was a killer about and driving around with bodies in his car.

IMO, unlikely to be substance addiction. He seems to be the type of person who needs to be in control of himself and others from what is alleged. It seems too risky if he got caught drug driving, possession of drugs etc. He would be gone. I wonder if he put money into the SD name? Holidays?....

 

[troumye]

Just using this to jump off. What annoys me is how people (police, society) put women into categories and use those categories to act as if "oh so-and-so couldn't have killed that person because she was a sex worker and he only killed 'good girls'" or the reverse of that. It is that kind of Madonna/*advertiser censored* dichotomy that has tripped up LE enforcement in the past and I still think they have a long way to come, tbh. How many women didn't come up on their radar because they havent fit the very strict mold of "blond, nice, middle class good girls". It is a very narrow view and does no one any favors.

I think the whole "blonde" thing is coincidental. I think it was a certain kind of demeanour and attitude all girls may have had in common that made them his target. I worked in the same building as Ciara at the time of her disappearance (..... and before people start PMing me and asking for more information.....No I did not know her personally and never spoke to her I just saw now and then when she caught the lift in the morning and afternoons when we were going to our offices) I distinctly remember she had medium/dark brown hair with with some highlights. She was definately a brunette