Discussion of "Overkill - The Unsolved Murder of Jon Benet" doco crime scene footage

[Cranberry]

Thank you ZoriahNZ for the screen caps. The photo in #17 shows the cellar door knob. I had read about the door handle in the interviews, and was surprised to read in PW's book there wasn't a door handle, only a plate covering the hole. Here is an excerpt from :Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later:

(snip) The door to the storage room was about five feet into the boiler room and in direct line of sight of the staircase. The old door had no handle. It was painted bright white, and a black metal plate covered the space where a handle would otherwise have been located. The door led to a room that had been used to dump and store coal from the main floor when the home was originally built in 1927. The Ramsey family used the room as a space to store Christmas decorations and presents as well as window screens and other construction paraphernalia. At the top of the door, a makeshift block of wood was held in place by a screw. A latch that hung straight down from the block of wood kept the door closed when it was...(snip) Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later

But there is a door knob, as shown in the screen cap - I wondered about JB possibly hitting her head on the knob, or falling onto it in a scuffle, or even dropped on it, it was so dark down there. I believe she was 47 inches tall, and a door knob would be around 36 inches from the floor, would you say?

 

[kanzz]

Thank you ZoriahNZ for the screen caps. The photo in #17 shows the cellar door knob. I had read about the door handle in the interviews, and was surprised to read in PW's book there wasn't a door handle, only a plate covering the hole. Here is an excerpt from :Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later:

(snip) The door to the storage room was about five feet into the boiler room and in direct line of sight of the staircase. The old door had no handle. It was painted bright white, and a black metal plate covered the space where a handle would otherwise have been located. The door led to a room that had been used to dump and store coal from the main floor when the home was originally built in 1927. The Ramsey family used the room as a space to store Christmas decorations and presents as well as window screens and other construction paraphernalia. At the top of the door, a makeshift block of wood was held in place by a screw. A latch that hung straight down from the block of wood kept the door closed when it was...(snip) Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later

But there is a door knob, as shown in the screen cap - I wondered about JB possibly hitting her head on the knob, or falling onto it in a scuffle, or even dropped on it, it was so dark down there. I believe she was 47 inches tall, and a door knob would be around 36 inches from the floor, would you say?

PW often gives me reason to wonder if she might be intellectually challenged. Minimally, she's a wingnut. smh

"The door to the storage room was about five feet into the boiler room..."? Is the WR part of the boiler room? I never saw in that way. Nothing makes sense on Planet Ramsey.

And wasn't JR thought to be PW's source for much of her book?

 

[Ambitioned]

Her antenna doesn't pick up all the channels.

 

[Cranberry]

Well, I can never figure out the house, so I was confused to begin with - but it reads like she is talking about the wine cellar door unless there is another door. But what she was writing about was when JR went down to the basement and found JB. If memory serves, didn't BPD take that whole door as evidence? yes, here it is from the search warrant - Door from basement (14KRV)14KRV

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Thank you ZoriahNZ for the screen caps. The photo in #17 shows the cellar door knob. I had read about the door handle in the interviews, and was surprised to read in PW's book there wasn't a door handle, only a plate covering the hole.

(snip by me)

But there is a door knob, as shown in the screen cap - I wondered about JB possibly hitting her head on the knob, or falling onto it in a scuffle, or even dropped on it, it was so dark down there. I believe she was 47 inches tall, and a door knob would be around 36 inches from the floor, would you say?

You are correct, and once again Paula Woodward is shown to be wrong wrong wrong. That's why examining all of the crime scene photos and footage we can get hold of is sooo important. Ramsey apologists in particular seem to excel at pushing misinformation to suit their version of events. Either that or they just don't do the legwork to confirm the facts and blindly regurgitate what they've been told by the Ramsey defense team. Over time the story changes and morphs into a different reality more convenient to them.

They can't go back and change time, however, so that's why the original photo/video evidence is invaluable in giving clues as to what happened, but also pointing out inconsistencies in the testimonies of those involved.

 

[flourish]

PW often gives me reason to wonder if she might be intellectually challenged. Minimally, she's a wingnut. smh

"The door to the storage room was about five feet into the boiler room..."? Is the WR part of the boiler room? I never saw in that way. Nothing makes sense on Planet Ramsey.

And wasn't JR thought to be PW's source for much of her book?

Totally random question.

So this house was originally built in 1927, then the Ramsey's remodeled. I'm sure there were other changes in the interim, too. So this basement bathroom and separate shower... Was it like a mud room originally? Why the bathroom down there at all? Did it have indoor plumbing originally? The powder room and separate shower down there confuses me... Oh! Was it servant's quarters originally?

I looked at a house once which had been split into an upstairs and downstairs duplex. The basement apartment had the toilet in a weird little cubby in the bedroom with the shower and sink in the actual bathroom.

Just curious. This house is a trip, layout wise, and some of it makes sense while other stuff not so much... Like the laundry chute... Where was it exactly and where did it go exactly? (since I'm being totally random... I once slid down my grandma's laundry chute when I was tiny, like maybe 3...it was super scary fun!)

 

[kanzz]

Totally random question.

So this house was originally built in 1927, then the Ramsey's remodeled. I'm sure there were other changes in the interim, too. So this basement bathroom and separate shower... Was it like a mud room originally? Why the bathroom down there at all? Did it have indoor plumbing originally? The powder room and separate shower down there confuses me... Oh! Was it servant's quarters originally?

I looked at a house once which had been split into an upstairs and downstairs duplex. The basement apartment had the toilet in a weird little cubby in the bedroom with the shower and sink in the actual bathroom.

Just curious. This house is a trip, layout wise, and some of it makes sense while other stuff not so much... Like the laundry chute... Where was it exactly and where did it go exactly? (since I'm being totally random... I once slid down my grandma's laundry chute when I was tiny, like maybe 3...it was super scary fun!)

I haven't seen any floor plans of the house prior to the R remodel. These are from the architect's drawings for the R's, and I don't think we know anything about original vs R era.

I don't know why this basement would have ever had a mud room as it doesn't have an entry from the outdoors. Most homes I've been in with basements of any size have had bathrooms in them. The shower might have been added later than the original home, imo. I once had a house that was built in 1920 - 5K sq ft of living space, 2 story with basement that had been refinished by the prior owners c.1970 to include a full kitchen and a bath that had been converted from half to full (so their grown son and his new wife could live there when they were newlyweds).

The laundry chute? I've never even tried to figure out that one!

 

[Ambitioned]

Years ago, when my parents moved to Mt. Lebanon, PA I was confused why there was a basement bathroom and shower down there. It was freaking cold. I was told it had been servant quarters previously. Since then it's been changed into a two bedroom quarters for guests.

It would be fascinating if someone got their hot little paws on the Ramsey blueprints before the remodeling. I checked out some blueprints of other Boulder homes and they make sense, unlike the Ramsey home.

 

[TeaTime]

Well, families used to live in multi-generational houses so basement bedrooms with closets (like the ones here) and a bathroom and shower would be pretty normal and the original house would have been really fancy in 1927. Someone with lots of money built the original house. Then someone with lots of money and no understanding of architecture slammed a 3 story box onto it.

I bet it was once a beautiful home.

 

[Tadpole12]

mark on right wrist/
yellow bracelet on her right wrist/
loose right wrist binding over top of sleeve

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/08/14-2.html

"The former Little Miss Colorado had a red heart drawn on the palm of her left hand and was wearing a yellow bracelet on her right wrist - the same wrist a white cord was wrapped around - with "JonBenet" engraved on one side and "12-25-96" on the other.""

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-cord-garrote.htm\

"A single loop of white cord was around the right wrist, tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the doctor easily slid it free. There were 15 1/2 inches between that loop and a loop on the other end, which once apparently had bound the left wrist."


.

 

[BoldBear]

Thank you ZoriahNZ for the screen caps. The photo in #17 shows the cellar door knob. I had read about the door handle in the interviews, and was surprised to read in PW's book there wasn't a door handle, only a plate covering the hole. Here is an excerpt from :Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later:

(snip) The door to the storage room was about five feet into the boiler room and in direct line of sight of the staircase. The old door had no handle. It was painted bright white, and a black metal plate covered the space where a handle would otherwise have been located. The door led to a room that had been used to dump and store coal from the main floor when the home was originally built in 1927. The Ramsey family used the room as a space to store Christmas decorations and presents as well as window screens and other construction paraphernalia. At the top of the door, a makeshift block of wood was held in place by a screw. A latch that hung straight down from the block of wood kept the door closed when it was...(snip) Woodward, Paula. We Have Your Daughter: The Unsolved Murder of JonBenét Ramsey Twenty Years Later

But there is a door knob, as shown in the screen cap - I wondered about JB possibly hitting her head on the knob, or falling onto it in a scuffle, or even dropped on it, it was so dark down there. I believe she was 47 inches tall, and a door knob would be around 36 inches from the floor, would you say?

Woodward didn't have a good grasp of the house. Her facts were often directly from the Ramseys and it didn't seem like she did a lot of fact checking.

 

[BoldBear]

This was great footage. It made a lot of details more clear.

One thing I noticed that I never questioned was JB's pillow at the foot of her bed. I know it's splitting hairs, but to move a pillow to the foot of the bed means you're either doing something with the pillow or the covers the pillow sits on. It's an action that can appear to have no purpose, but it isn't just done randomly.

The second thing I noticed was the greater amount of detail on the RN. Many other copies are washed-out. With this copy you can, in fact, see where previous pen marks bled through the previous page. Take a sharpie and a notepad. Experiment writing on it with your normal writing. For the most part you don't get much bleed through. It's only when you pause the pen for whatever reason that you get it to bleed through. This can give away the speed at which someone is tracing the letters across the page.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Well, families used to live in multi-generational houses so basement bedrooms with closets (like the ones here) and a bathroom and shower would be pretty normal and the original house would have been really fancy in 1927. Someone with lots of money built the original house. Then someone with lots of money and no understanding of architecture slammed a 3 story box onto it.

I bet it was once a beautiful home.

I totally agree with you. Every time I see a photo of the back view of the house I can't help thinking what a monstrosity it looks. The huge new back part is totally out of keeping with the original frontage, with it's pretty gables.

It's a bit like the R's themselves - a well presented public front, but the rest isn't so important.

 

[digginin]

Please check the picture in her hand. Could it also be a "stickman" on the right side. Both are thing kids like to draw on themselves.

 

[Tadpole12]

This was great footage. It made a lot of details more clear.

One thing I noticed that I never questioned was JB's pillow at the foot of her bed. I know it's splitting hairs, but to move a pillow to the foot of the bed means you're either doing something with the pillow or the covers the pillow sits on. It's an action that can appear to have no purpose, but it isn't just done randomly.

The second thing I noticed was the greater amount of detail on the RN. Many other copies are washed-out. With this copy you can, in fact, see where previous pen marks bled through the previous page. Take a sharpie and a notepad. Experiment writing on it with your normal writing. For the most part you don't get much bleed through. It's only when you pause the pen for whatever reason that you get it to bleed through. This can give away the speed at which someone is tracing the letters across the page.

Margin detail visible # 3 jpg

 

[kanzz]

RE: The RN - it appears to me this photo was taken after it was dusted for prints. See the left margin:

Click here for LARGE version

I downloaded all the pics from mediafire to my machine and then uploaded to a new pinterest pg. (Thanks, ZoriahNZ.. hope you don't mind!). In the process, the uploaded pics are very large.

 

[buggiegirl]

Someone with lots of money built the original house. Then someone with lots of money and no understanding of architecture slammed a 3 story box onto it.

You are so right about this! The addition the Ramseys put on that house is so ugly. They didn't even try to keep the same style of architecture.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Thanks for this thread and the screenshots, ZoriahNZ! Also, thanks to Tadpole for the embedded YouTube of the Reelz program.

On the RN - this is the first time I noticed that none of the "U"s on the RN have a tail. If you are used to writing your "U" with a tail on the right side, it would be really hard to stop for the entirety of letter. I see in the screenshot Zoriah posted of PR's exemplars, she does have tails on her "U"s.

Hmmm, I wonder who writes their "U" without a tail.

 

[Tadpole12]

JonBenet video links – Fall 2016
FFJ

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?10391-JonBenet-video-links-–-Fall-2016

*************************

Just wanted to add the reference,
and to thank cynic, and the FFJ crew for their
multitude of resources and generosity

 

[madeleine]

Thanks for the photos and videos.

The new crime scene pics, especially the ones with Jb by the tree, made me realize I don't hate her killer, I hate the BPD and Linda Arndt. What happened that morning at the crime scene made this case impossible to solve without a confession IMO.

I wouldnt write books nor appear on national tv if I were them. I would HIDE. Shame on you idiots.