IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #5

[vliam]

Interesting thought. Maybe suspect knew Mr. L would be out and about on his property for some definite reason. Maybe Mr. L should think about who could know that (a friend, neighbour, handyman, etc).

The owner has twenty five acres of trees. The house isn't on the property so it's probably safe to assume that he's rarely there. I don't think he was tracking the owner's movements.

We've got a dozen acres that we live on. I have no idea what goes on beyond the first couple.

 

[cathdawg]

The obituaries state that Abby died Feb 14th and Libby Feb 13th. So if this is true, the Perp would have left the area after midnight.

 

[monkeypants]

The obituaries state that Abby died Feb 14th and Libby Feb 13th.

That doesn't mean anything. The family writes those. One chose day of disappearance the other day of recovery.

 

[Bob Saccamano]

"At 63 feet above Deer Creek, it is believed to be Indiana’s second highest bridge after the Tulip Trestle near Bloomfield in northeastern Greene County."
https://www.indianalandmarks.org/endangered-property/monon-high-bridge/

Yep. The grade is severe at the North end of the bridge. It is very steep along the bank heading upstream around the bend until it reaches the drainage ditch that comes out the south end of the cemetery. The topo attached has 10' contours. Those drainage ditches and severe slopes are why Mr. Logan stated that he had to have walked them down there as it would be impossible to carry or drag one person down there, let alone 2. It would also be tough terrain to chase someone.

In my opinion, he had to either lead them there with a weapon that compelled their cooperation or they had ventured off the trail down to the flat area upstream at the bend of the creek and the perp snuck up on them. The fact that a witness mentioned seeing the man on the trail, but not the girls would lead me to believe that she saw him after the crime had been committed. I have a hard time believing that he committed the crime AFTER encountering a separate witness, however, it is possible. I wish we knew more about what she saw, how close, what direction was he heading, was he near the bridge, etc?

 

[TheOtherChristina]

I know this guy is a creep (to put it way too mildly), but I am guessing he didn't come off as a creep at first to the girls. I don't think he pounced on them out of the blue, but somehow cajoled them and enticed them into an area where he could then control them.

So, what could he say *AND* who could he be to pull that off?

Was he a familiar face to them? Or maybe someone who comes off as "dad like" and knows how to chat with that age group? Maybe not someone who looks and acts like a drifter, but rather someone who looks and acts like a regular guy from the area out for a walk.

jmopinion

This is a really interesting line of thinking. Ted Bundy successfully used many ruses with the girls he targeted. The suspect could have pretended, like Bundy did, to be injured or otherwise vulnerable or in need of help for himself or a pet. He could have taken on the guise of an authority figure: firefighter, police, coach, parent. Or he could have been a familiar face.

I know that comments from LE have suggested that this crime is somehow related to parents not knowing what their children are up to, but I have a hard time seeing that. Maybe I just don't want to believe it.

 

[marypretzels]

And it looks like such a wonderful place to hike...

 

[Tulessa]

Gosh, our old train bridge is 150 feet, and people jump and post it on youtube.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

The obituaries state that Abby died Feb 14th and Libby Feb 13th.

We are guessing one family used the last date they were seen and the other the date they were found deceased.

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[jillycat]

I truly think he saw the girls on the bridge. Heck may have even crossed paths on the bridge. The girls might have been "weary" of him but I doubt he caused a lot of concern to them while on the bridge. I think the girls went further and closer to the cemetery which is how he was able to contain them and avoid being seen. I would suspect the girls truly thought he was long gone, before the actual events took place. I also think the photos came from a different persons footage on the bridge that day. Wether it was an earlier encounter before the girls arrived or around the time of the girls arrival. Which is why there are only these two photos, because the person started filming other sights at that time. Perhaps the perp saw the person using the phone which is what prompted the change in his walk, maybe to "avoid" getting in their way. Not the girls but someone else on the trails. Just my take, if it had come from the girls phones then he had to have encountered them on more than one occasion during that brief time and I have to think that would have alarmed them.

I've considered that that the footage might have come from another person's phone, but what about that would contribute to police naming him as the suspect, when others were on the bridge that day too? Not challenging your scenario, it just poses that to me.

 

[bye4now]

There's something causing the bulge in front, and it's not his body. I think it's a backback, worn backwards, but concealed by the jacket and scarf. Maybe even underneath a sweater or hoodie.

I was thinking it was a fannie pack...


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[galaxygal]

What we know:

The girls were where they were supposed to be that afternoon. School was not in session.
They were murdered.
There is a photo of a suspect. The "totality of evidence" points to him according to statement from LE.
LE believes the suspect attempted to disguise himself. LE has asked people to report seeing an individual walking or hitch hiking on the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. later that Monday afternoon.
The suspect has not been identified by anyone.
LE continues to search the area.
The girls were reported missing on Monday at 5:30 pm when they were no shows for a 3:30 pick up at the location they were dropped off.
The last recorded activity was a snap chat photo at 2:07 pm.
Their bodies were found on private property in the vicinity the next day in early afternoon.
The property owner had been in Lafayette the day they went missing.
A search warrant issued for the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Rd. found nothing.

What am I missing?

LE say the girls planned to hike a local trail, and authorities have received no information suggesting they planned to meet anyone else on that trail.

 

[LietKynes]

Hi - I'm new. I've lurked at WS for a long time around various cases and finally wanted to register. But I'm worried that what I want to contribute may be against the TOS so I'm prepared to be embarrassed by having my post deleted (blush). Anyway - I keep thinking about the odd statement the LE made at the early press conference:

[FONT="]“I think people are smart enough in our community to draw their own conclusions about what they should feel and shouldn’t feel,” Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin replied. “Our people are very smart. They are a very good community and they are very strong. And they are able to draw their own conclusions about this whole situation I think quite successfully.”

[/FONT]When I first heard that it was before they had even said the girls had been murdered I believe, and my thought was, "well it was either a suicide pact or a family member of one of the girls and the small town people already probably know which family member it was" - that was the only explanation I could come up with as to why the LE wasn't warning the community to be vigilant, etc.

Well, we know of course that it wasn't a suicide. Which makes me still wonder about family member - even more distant one. I grew up in a small town - in many small towns people are related to almost everyone else in town. So it wouldn't necessarily be an immediate family member - could be a cousin, great uncle, former step father, etc. This would also explain how perhaps the girls would have followed this person. But yet I don't know how the man-on-the-bridge picture would fit into that theory, so obviously there are some issues with my theory.

SABBM

I think a lot of people are wondering about that statement, myself included.

I've not ruled anyone out, either.

It would seem from the evidence presented that the perp is a stranger to both the victims and the family.
But who knows ?
:moo:

Welcome, btw !

 

[NewMama]

I know this guy is a creep (to put it way too mildly), but I am guessing he didn't come off as a creep at first to the girls. I don't think he pounced on them out of the blue, but somehow cajoled them and enticed them into an area where he could then control them.

So, what could he say *AND* who could he be to pull that off?

Was he a familiar face to them? Or maybe someone who comes off as "dad like" and knows how to chat with that age group? Maybe not someone who looks and acts like a drifter, but rather someone who looks and acts like a regular guy from the area out for a walk.

jmopinion

I can picture him trying to be humorous and saying, "Your mom let you come out here with no jacket?! Does she know you're skipping school?" Saying it with a big smile on his face. Heck, I'd smile, too.
I just get a feeling of pure evil from those blurry stills.

 

[cathdawg]

LE must have determined that Abby died on Feb 14th. So the Perp must have been in the area til after midnight. JMO

 

[kittymittons]

I'm wondering has there been any other victims like this before this time in that state or other surrounding states probably around in the last 6 months?Maybe at other parks and recreation areas.

Everyone keeps remembering the Lyric and Elizabeth case, it happened in Iowa in 2012 I believe. Here's a link

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/


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[Hatfield]

What I've been wondering about is the man who was seen there who was dressed in black. Since one girl saw a man and a couple, and the other teens saw the girls and a man (I never heard if they were together or just seen at different times), I've been thinking they were the same guy. Once seen in the clothes he wore before the murders and once after he had changed his clothes and was preparing to leave. I wish they had a description other than just dressed in black or a composite sketch, or something.

The man in black was either the same man the others saw or it means there was even a 5th person there at the bridge around the time of their murders.

I hope LE has reinterviewed everyone there that day.

I found the link below that describes at least 4 others that were there. I changed the witness name to initials.

"A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.
“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” CME wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

"

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

 

[Blythe]

LE say the girls planned to hike a local trail, and authorities have received no information suggesting they planned to meet anyone else on that trail.

I agree. I am not of the opinion that they were meeting up with an SM contact.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

I've considered that that the footage might have come from another person's phone, but what about that would contribute to police naming him as the suspect, when others were on the bridge that day too? Not challenging your scenario, it just poses that to me.

I don't think those variables are exclusive.

Regardless of HOW the photo was acquired, I believe they have other evidence supporting him as the killer.

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[MizStery]

What we know:

The girls were where they were supposed to be that afternoon. School was not in session.
They were murdered.
There is a photo of a suspect. The "totality of evidence" points to him according to statement from LE.
LE believes the suspect attempted to disguise himself. LE has asked people to report seeing an individual walking or hitch hiking on the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. later that Monday afternoon.
The suspect has not been identified by anyone.
LE continues to search the area.
The girls were reported missing on Monday at 5:30 pm when they were no shows for a 3:30 pick up at the location they were dropped off.
There was an official search for them until midnight.
The last recorded activity was a snap chat photo at 2:07 pm.
Their bodies were found on private property in the vicinity the next day in early afternoon.
The property owner had been in Lafayette the day they went missing.
A search warrant issued for the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Rd. found nothing.

What am I missing?

Thanks for your 'What we know' list.

I am adding a 15 captioned slideshow from the TheIndyChannel link provided at the end of my post.

TIMELINE
DELPHI TIMELINE slideshow 1-15 each captioned.Teen girls found dead after disappearing while hiking
A terrible 48 hours for a small community in Carroll County: Two girls, ages 13 and 14, went on a hike and disappeared. The next day, two bodies were found during the search for them and the following day, the bodies were positively identified as the two girls by authorities.




http://www.theindychannel.com/news/timeline-13-year-old-girls-go-missing-bodies-found

 

[vliam]

LE must have determined that Abby died on Feb 14th. So the Perp must have been in the area til after midnight. JMO

I think that's extremely unlikely and it's the job of the medical examiner to make that determination. The families probably provided the information prior to any final report from the ME's office. They just picked a date. The family's guess isn't really proof of anything.