IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #13

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I think 50's is about right.

IMO, law enforcement should be aware that our killer may try to disguise himself with the use of a cane, a walker, or even a wheelchair.

He may go so far as to fake a missing limb such as an arm or a leg.

And yes, I have passed this on to the FBI.

Or maybe this "old" 50 year old geezer is now camouflaging himself by wearing skater gear and riding a skateboard?

I don't think 50 is very old...

But I am almost OUT of the 50's... And into the next decade...

So I might be a bit biased...

:giggle:

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

I found It odd that they were not ID'd until after the autopsies. Is that normal with them being found the next day?

Per a friend in LE, they could not allow the family to the scene of the crime or they would contaminate it. Therefore, the girls had to be ID'ed at the coroners.

 

[heidi76]

Is it against the rules to post a link to the sheriffs sex offender registry page? Because there is an interesting non compliant sex offender in Delphi who has a history of sexually abusing minors

I have no info that suggests the girls were sexually assaulted that is pure speculation on municipal part

No not against the rules, but has been discussed numerous times ❤

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[#1nana]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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[monkeypants]

Found this article again, my thoughts are, jmo, that perhaps LE thinks and knows by evidence they have that there is another person involved....

We have other information that we’re not sharing,” Bursten said, before saying that more than one person might have been involved in the incident.

“Since Wednesday, February 15th, law enforcement officers have distributed a photo of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail,” state police said in another news release Sunday. “The photo appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie. During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

Although both the image and the audio came from Liberty’s cellphone, Bursten said that it was not yet clear whether the voice on the recording was that of the man in the picture.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ording-of-three-words/?utm_term=.d4896bb8c851

Yep I agree. I truly feel there was at a minimum 2 people involved and not random just based on studying LE statements

 

[monkeypants]

Is it against the rules to post a link to the sheriffs sex offender registry page? Because there is an interesting non compliant sex offender in Delphi who has a history of sexually abusing minors

I have no info that suggests the girls were sexually assaulted that is pure speculation on municipal part

I'm fairly certain it's on the last thread and even more certain RSOs were gone thru with a fine tooth comb

 

[BFan60]

What tip? Please use the reply with quote when you're posting about something specific because this thread is moving so fast. Thanks!

i did the same right after the PC

 

[Elainera]

Remember what LE said when to first happened, they reminded parents to be aware of what their kids are doing online.

The did not use the word 'online'. They merely said be aware what your kids are up to.

The cemetary seems like a good exit. Also if you walk the creek to the east there is another bridge. Idk if that would be a good place to park or how steep the bank is.

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Good thought! Could one of the very talented map makers here please show us that possible path?

 

[GGE]

I remember a poster a ton of comments back asking about the possible suspect using an RV and wondering if there were any RV parks nearby. The poster also asked if the lyric and elizabeth case has close RV parks. I used to live by there and yes it has a lot of close RV areas. I don't know though, I feel like an RV would put a big target on the suspect.

Also, cause of death was not released in the lyric and elizabeth case, and all these years later it still has not been released. I am hoping that for the sake of the other families that this person is the one who did it. To have no closure would be terrible. I always thought that the L & E case suspect had killed before. To take two people at once is pretty risky and I feel the same on this case.

That was me, thank you for your reply. I agree with your second paragraph as well.

 

[kittymittons]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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Very interesting. Thanks for your perspective!


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[Deleted member 278]

Why were searchers there today, #1nana?

 

[Oregonmama]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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Thank you for this! #3 is perhaps one reason there are billboards regarding this case in most of the country......

 

[DavidC]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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Fantastic stuff! Thank you so much for your efforts!

#3 really got me because when I look at the map I too realized that if they crossed the interstate then anyone driving by could have seen them.

 

[#1nana]

Trail back to the bridge. As you can see the small parking here is right on the road in front of the house across the street. The trail splits. One goes down towards the river. The other, to the left runs parallel to 350 N. and takes you to the bridge, not far from the road.

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[DeDee]

This is probably not important but might give some indication as to how often Liberty was uploading to snapchat. I think the 2 pictures might actually be taken from the same spot but she turned around. The first photo was taken, showing Abigail just past the creek. Liberty obviously walking ahead of her, turns around, takes that photo. She turns back around facing southeast, continuing to cross the bridge and takes another photo from nearly the same location. As I mentioned in an early post those planks are about 140 feet apart. You can see in the photos that its almost like a mirror image of the tracks, that's because if you're facing northwest on that part of the bridge the planks are off to your right and if you turn around 180 degrees, theres another facing your right. That would place Liberty between the 2nd & 3rd plank off to the side of the tracks across the bridge for both of the photos. The image quality looks terrible after it was scaled on this site. The red letters say "Shadows cast to the RIGHT in the picture with Abigail and Shadows cast to the LEFT in the other photo". This is important because it shows that she must have been facing the opposite direction when taking the 2nd photo. Which places her either before that 3rd plank. If you check google earth, you can see that the 5th plank (the only other possible option) does not have that extra piece of wooding coming off of it.

I'm almost positive she was standing in nearly the same location for both photos as shown here. Between the 2nd and 3rd planks off to the sides of the bridge.

I think the 2 pictures might actually be taken from the same spot but she turned around.
I'm almost positive she was standing in nearly the same location for both photos as shown here. Between the 2nd and 3rd planks off to the sides of the bridge.

Thank you, and all others who post imagery. I see the shadows and agree with your assessment. Maybe this is why GH removed his video, that is, if it contained erroneous data.

What is your impression on this important find in relation to where BG led the girls?
#1nana patiently waiting to get those images and for your impressions on the field trip. :tyou:

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

Are there any similarities to these two missing IN girls? I know a number of us feel this wasn't his first rodeo.

Lauren and Emily Stratton

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1285083/1

The girls' names get me all the time:

Libby + Abby
Lyric + Elizabeth
Lauren + Emily

L and a vowel

Not that a crime-of-opportunity SK would know their names. A planner might.

A coincidence, I'm sure. Sort of. Kind of. Not really?


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[Elainera]

Gives a little bit more info..... states the girls were found 60 feet from the water and Libby's grandfather thanked the volunteer searchers that took time off work and staying out all night.....I didn't think they searched all night but according to the grandfather they did continue to search through the night.

http://people.com/crime/abigail-williams-liberty-german-slain-indiana-teens-5-things/

Perplexing that they didn't find the girls that night. Surely they had torches, and the trees have no foliage. I can only guess they didn't want to go down the slope in the dark.

 

[Novelist]

Where do I begin? Made the jog to Delphi today. Completely changed everything I had thought and/or envisioned in my head. I live in a small town but this town....super small.

1. I live about 2 hours away. Didn't know the area at all. Took me an hour to find the bridge. And that's using GPS. GPS took me all over. I finally had to stop and ask someone. The GPS kept taking me to the trail head which is in town at Riley Park. So IMO this BG had to have known the area. And to actually chance into two girls by theirselves--no way. Well except....See #3

2. This trail is not nearly as "back woods" as I thought. There is an area right off the road where maybe two cars can fit to walk back. The bridge is only half a mile from the road/parking spot. Very open. Had I not known what happened there I would never have worried about being there alone. Especially during the day. Anyone that parked right there was right on the road and fully visible to anyone going by.

3. There are 3 areas to park and get to the bridge. In town on Washington Street, and another little spot right beside the Hoosier Highway. If you park here, you literally walk over the interstate. The wooden bridge is probably
A half a mile to a mile past that. Mind you this basically runs parallel to the road. Not deep into the woods like my mind thought. It runs parallel to 350 N. The mere fact that these girls could have walked over the interstate....was jaw dropping for me. I assumed there was only one area to hop on the trail. When I saw these two girls could have possibly walked across the interstate was a game changer for me. So, do we know where the sister dropped them off? Town? Off Hoosier Highway or right at the gate leading back to the bridge? God knows who saw them if they crossed over the interstate.

4. They found the girls on the Northeast side of the bridge, 50 yards from Deer Creek. Closest side to the entrance/parking on the same side as 350. I know this because I asked the searchers out scouring the area. Their main focus today was on the Northeast side of the bridge along the woods/field facing the road. They also had dogs.

5. If I counted one man/boy wearing a camo hat, blue coat, baggie jeans and a hoodie, I counted 30. In fact while driving around trying to find this place I stopped to ask a searcher and it was one of the girls uncle. Wearing a blue coat, camo hat and baggie jeans. This suspect looks like every other man in town. Just a note the uncle said he'd called some friends and family to come and search "their way". I gathered they weren't real pleased with maybe the lack of searching from PD. This was disheartening.

6. The cemetery is within visual distance from the entrance gate/parking to the bridge. Not far at all.

7. After driving over to the cemetery it dips down a little the further back into the cemetery and kind of hides a vehicle. Once back there the PD had big flood lights up facing the woods there. There was a path at the back of the cemetery that had a "no trespassing-private property" sign. The searches had a map out and seemed to focus a lot on this area.

8. Like every other trail there was random trash, cigarette butts all over. Not sure how they determine what's been there a month to what was there the day of the crime.

My summary, IMO this was so much more brazen than I ever thought. It wasn't desolate and deep woods. It was just right off the road. If it took me an hour to find this bridge, it couldn't have been someone who just randomly was at the same place at the same time who didn't know the area. Unless--they saw the girls as they were driving on Hoosier Highway and turned back to locate them. Even then it would be difficult to find which way they went ext. IMO he didn't park at the main entrance to the bridge. It was right on the road, right across from a house. Anyone and everyone would have see his vehicle there. It appears to me he parked in the cemetery, went down the path marked private property, met up with the girls at the north end of the bridge (opposite of what I thought) and cut east back towards the road/cemetery. It's a very hilly area. "Down the hill" could have occurred anywhere. He committed his crime in the woods closest to the cemetery, close to his vehicle and drove away.


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Wonderful insite! Really puts things in perspective. Thank you for your time. I would have gladly gone with you (and brought the fiance) if you felt worried about being there alone. Please be careful to all that do this now or in the future.

It saddens me that the locals are frustrated with LE thinking they are not looking enough. I was worried about that. I spoke with a retired LE last week and he broke down the "clusterf@$%" multi agancies can cause.

 

[Gardenista]

Thank you, and all others who post imagery. I see the shadows and agree with your assessment. Maybe this is why GH removed his video, that is, if it contained erroneous data.

What is your impression on this important find in relation to where BG led the girls?
#1nana patiently waiting to get those images and for your impressions on the field trip. :tyou:

GH re-did that video--it's on his youtube channel, but he didn't change much of anything.

 

[Elainera]

Do u have a link?

In the first post of each thread is a link to the media thread.