IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[Eileen730]

If someone hitchhiked into the area.. what do they do once they're covered in blood, dirt, mud, etc.. from the crime? How could you get away unnoticed without driving there? What if you get scratched, injured, etc.. Anything like that will draw more attention to yourself if you are relying on someone else for transportation who isn't involved. It's way too risky to *not* drive there. Unless you lived within walking distance but that makes it even more risky. If the person(s) parked at that cemetery, there is a tree there which can obscure the vehicle. The very few amount of people who live in that area are not constantly monitoring the cemetery for "suspicious" vehicles parked there. At least not before this happened. The nearest resident to the cemetery said he was out of town that day so he wouldn't have seen any cars parked there. It's such a prime location for access to the area that police have been using it to get in and out of the crime scene.

How about a motorcycle?

 

[Jethro4WS]

The problem I have with that is why would he bring them back to that hard to get to location. Would have been easier to leave them some other place. Either hidden or on the side of a road.

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Bringing the girls back to an area that was already searched might buy the person more time. The longer time goes on the more favorable it is to the killer.

My current working theory is that the video with the audio was recovered prior to finding the girls because of the FBI presence so early on the day they were found. They would almost of had to been there by the time the girls were found - at least based on what was said about the FBI processing the scene which I believe came up in the first briefing after the girls were found.

 

[Lionheart1980]

If this link is allowed, it's quite fascinating. He points out the areas to be careful of. I think this has been posted before.
Walking on the bridge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK8DJVW890

Digging the elevator music on that video.

A quick check-in before work :
On the topic of sleuthing victims' family members. I fully support not blaming any of the family members in this or any other forum. That is best left to LE. But there is a fine line between doing that and looking into an inadvertent, secondary role that family "may" have played. That type of involvement should not be ruled out until the perp is finally ID'd and caught. Because it happens. Some uncle or auntie or 3rd cousin, in a hypothetical family, may have pissed off a killer for something as simple as stealing something, cheating someone, making someone look like a total fool, filing a civil or criminal complaint against someone, etc.. Where I used to live (private) this stuff happened. Some people or organizations employ revenge like Klingons do.
So even though we ought not to mention family here, except in support of them, it is wise to not develop tunnel vision on the question "WHY?". Why these girls? The police said it was "complicated" (sorry if I don't have that link), so it may have been a combination of revenge for one thing and a perp (hired or not) who happens to be a real deviant. That would qualify as complicated. I suggest that we widen our potential field of vision and really think outside our personal boxes. I am NOT suggesting that anyone name names or implicate a family member on here.
All of the above is MOO.

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[stormymama]

I agree. 65 foot high bridge into shallow water probably would have killed her or gravely hurt her. So why drag her corpse or unconscious body all the way to the crime scene? He would have had to hide her to hide more time with his still living prey or the whole point of whatever we was attempting just makes no sense.
Jmo.

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I don't think he pushed anyone off the bridge. I think he could have threatened it to get them to go with him.

 

[dbsabzb]

I have seen a few mentions about the crime scene/area, with people surprised that it is so easily accessible given there still appear to be searches ongoing. I thought this as well, but then wondered - is it possible this is on purpose, with LE hoping the perp will revisit the area?

 

[ninij9]

So I have a question and I'm really not trying to be offensive, just wanting information. There are MANY posts with maps describing whether or not they crossed the whole bridge, which hill they went down, did they cross the creek, etc.

I'm willing to put time into learning that information, and studying those maps, but is there a purpose to that other than just pure idle curiosity? Would knowing the path they took and cross or not crossing the creek help in any way to solve who the perp is?

Again, I may have missed the significance. Thanks!

Your question made me stop short. For us, there is no gain to learning this other than trying to put pieces together. I don't think it would provide any knowledge to help assist identifying perp unless something is found along the route, like say his wallet with ID in it.

I'm pretty sure LE has a working idea of route as they have the full recordings and access to the area for 2 weeks now.

Do for my part it's curiosity. It keeps me interested as well as keeps my mind off of the actual horrific crime itself. I can't speak for others here though.

Good question.

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[mpnola]

There is a video on youtube of a gentlemen crossing and filming the walk the entire length. Sorry no link.

Exactly! Was a video made because it is not that common for people to actually cross it? It is scary! Of all of our members who have been there or visited, I can't remember one saying they crossed it. Maybe went out a bit and took a pic. But, I am not local, so I really don't know. It is just a thought that this guy seems to be one of the few who are comfortable going up and crossing.

I said it before, this guy operates on adrenaline. Everything surrounding that day was shrouded in high risk behavior. I can guess that the seen likely reflected that. My heart is so heavy for those sweet girls who should only know sleepovers with their bestie and exploring trails for interesting finds right now.

In my opinion, this guy will be able to feed on this adrenaline and the ability to dodge the search for him, for a little while. But, if the trail goes cold and the search is not as intense, it is only a matter of time before he needs his rush again. They better find him! Quickly. I personally think it is just one guy. These monsters don't generally like to share. How do you find another monster anyway? I mean, how does that first convo ever come up? (rambling. sorry)

 

[Superslash]

I really wish there were more verified evidence for us to go on....

Even if there were, we are all trying to make sense of nonsense!

 

[LadyL]

If it was an internet lure, I think the perp would've been savvy enough to take any devices the girls had on them.

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[WebSight]

Yikes. I'd get halfway across on my hands and knees then have to evacuated by helicopter.

I am with you there.

We decided to walk up the Eiffel Tower rather than wait in line for the elevators. I was very brave going up, didn't look down or out, just straight ahead. Stayed against the wall at all times on the lookout platform.

On the way down I froze and literally thought they would need to have some one come get me. I managed to get to the bottom but it was step by step, painfully slow, in tears the whole time. :notgood:

 

[Gunther Toody]

With all due respect to Gray Hughes and his expert video, while I think it is 100% accurate as to placement on the bridge, I don't think he took them down the south end.

I think they encountered him more than once. I think they turned around to come back to the north end and he was either ahead of them, and then waiting or following behind.

I think he took them down the north end and they never crossed the creek. I think doing that would have been way too risky if someone spotted them...it wasn't warm enough to have someone not think WTH are they doing? Coming down the north end and following the creek makes more sense to me.

I think Libby captured his photo in her video at first while simply filming and then maybe because they got scared. I don't think you can rush across that bridge to escape.

I do think he made his escape via the field next to the cemetery.

JMO...and in all honesty, I don't think it matters. No one has come forward to place them at either end and we know where they ended up. We sleuth this because we can't do much else.

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I am having a hard time with this as well and alluded to the fact in a previous post.
If the three of them walked back to the North end, their walk had to be cordial. I can't imagine the girls running in terror across that bridge, nor can I imagine him dragging them across.

Or..

the video is not accurate and they never were on the South end of the bridge.

 

[heidi76]

Just for clarification, this original report was referencing a channel 59 report WHICH LE DISPUTED when channel 18 interviewed LE for follow up.

"The sheriff said that the media reports that there was DNA are false, or at least not confirmed.

"CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby is clearing up some misconceptions about the Delphi double homicide case released by other media outlets this week.Leazenby told News 18 he has never confirmed DNA evidence was recovered in this case. He said there is some evidence in this case, but he does not want to reveal what that is in order to protect the integrity of the investigation. He did confirm, however, any evidence has been “fast-tracked” to be evaluated in this case.""

http://wlfi.com/2017/02/24/carroll-co-sheriff-clears-up-misconceptions-on-delphi-double-homicide/

/carroll-co-sheriff-clears-up-misconceptions-on-delphi-double-homicide with video

Thank you! I really was hoping.

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[pugsly]

Just thinking out loud here - he gets the one to help him carry the other to the spot. Easy compliance right there - she won't run and leave her wounded friend. Yuck.

If they were on the southern end of the bridge, it doesn't look to be that high up, so she may not even have been injured too badly. Just injured enough.

 

[Inthedetails]

That's exactly what I think it was......LUCK!
Seems there really was no one around to see him.
Even with a day off school no groups of kids out there.
A stray person here and there is all it seems.

But he couldn't have counted on that. I think he had an isolated spot picked out and/or a building somewhere.

Once he got control of the girls, I think the rest of the crime went fast. He knew what he wanted and followed the scenario planned in his head.

I think he knew the girls would be there that day. He couldn't know if the bridge area would be busy, so he lured them off the main trail.

I see it as planned.

jmopinion

 

[Jethro4WS]

We have discussed not calling 911.

At a recent self defense class, we were told seasoned police officers can't even manage to call 911 in certain situations.

Off duty cop is attacked, has to fire on attacker and can't manage to call 911 due to adrenaline, fear, etc. We were told to NEVER rely on dialling 911. Fight. Run. Do whatever you can to get away. Do NOT consider dialing 911.

There is a feature on smartphones that operates like a panic button. On my android phone, for example, if you hit the button on the side 3 times rapidly it will send messages to one or more people in a list I supply of emergency contacts, it will take a photo from front and rear cameras and record 5 seconds of video.

 

[ninij9]

If someone hitchhiked into the area.. what do they do once they're covered in blood, dirt, mud, etc.. from the crime? How could you get away unnoticed without driving there? What if you get scratched, injured, etc.. Anything like that will draw more attention to yourself if you are relying on someone else for transportation who isn't involved. It's way too risky to *not* drive there. Unless you lived within walking distance but that makes it even more risky. If the person(s) parked at that cemetery, there is a tree there which can obscure the vehicle. The very few amount of people who live in that area are not constantly monitoring the cemetery for "suspicious" vehicles parked there. At least not before this happened. The nearest resident to the cemetery said he was out of town that day so he wouldn't have seen any cars parked there. It's such a prime location for access to the area that police have been using it to get in and out of the crime scene.

Police already mentioned a discarded duffle. Maybe they think he changed? Maybe he parked miles away upstream and trekked back. It's just my personal opinion that he walked in and walked out. Nothing more. Just thoughts floating around my little pea brain.

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[ninij9]

I have seen a few mentions about the crime scene/area, with people surprised that it is so easily accessible given there still appear to be searches ongoing. I thought this as well, but then wondered - is it possible this is on purpose, with LE hoping the perp will revisit the area?

From your post to God's laptop!!

I truly pray he's that dumb[emoji120]

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[travelbug]

I think it could be worth exploring whether the Logan property had any sort of security cameras. If not, the perp(s) could have simply parked there and left from there after leaving the girls bodies. That would also mean figuring out who knew that Mr. Logan was out of town that day. imho

 

[thekarmabus]

There is a feature on smartphones that operates like a panic button. On my android phone, for example, if you hit the button on the side 3 times rapidly it will send messages to one or more people in a list I supply of emergency contacts, it will take a photo from front and rear cameras and record 5 seconds of video.

I believe the Apple iPhone only has this for India users. Not sure why.


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[BFan60]

I am with you there.

We decided to walk up the Eiffel Tower rather than wait in line for the elevators. I was very brave going up, didn't look down or out, just straight ahead. Stayed against the wall at all times on the lookout platform.

On the way down I froze and literally thought they would need to have some one come get me. I managed to get to the bottom but it was step by step, painfully slow, in tears the whole time. :notgood:

I freaked out in a Hall of Mirrors in Fishermans Wharf and had to be rescued.