IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #22

[otto]

It seems to me that either he walked back across the creek, up the hill, across the bridge, down the path and to the public parking before it was dark, or his car was parked somewhere on the access road under the bridge.

Were there any other people in this popular teenage-girl friendly park close to 5 PM who walked to the bridge that day?

 

[otto]

Is the Moron Bridge Park the sort of place that people go to earlier in the day so that they can hike a couple of miles, or is it the sort of place that people go to at 2 in the afternoon? Is the Monon Bridge Trail a 1 hour hike including crossing the bridge?

They had scheduled one hour until they were picked up, right? I'm guessing, but after watching video of the area, crossing the bridge seems like more than a one hour hike return trip.

Has this been discussed? Why were they so far across the bridge if they had only one hour?

 

[Cryptonite]

It seems to me that either he walked back across the creek, up the hill, across the bridge, down the path and to the public parking before it was dark, or his car was parked somewhere on the access road under the bridge.

Were there any other people in this popular teenage-girl friendly park close to 5 PM who walked to the bridge that day?

He could have walked to Wilson's bridge to make his exit ,another 3/4 of mile east

 

[Considering]

It seems to me that either he walked back across the creek, up the hill, across the bridge, down the path and to the public parking before it was dark, or his car was parked somewhere on the access road under the bridge.

Were there any other people in this popular teenage-girl friendly park close to 5 PM who walked to the bridge that day?

He could have but I don't think he parked in the public parking area. There's little space to park there and it's right on the road. I think if he had parked there, people would have noticed a vehicle and LE would have mentioned it.

 

[Cryptonite]

He could have walked to Wilson's bridge to make his exit ,another 3/4 of mile east

North side of creek is not as rough

 

[otto]

He could have but I don't think he parked in the public parking area. There's little space to park there and it's right on the road. I think if he had parked there, people would have noticed a vehicle and LE would have mentioned it.

Thanks! So it's quite possible that he parked along the access road, but that would also suggest that he had a plan of meeting two young girls or a single woman along the bridge. It's quite a lot to do to park some distance away, cross the creek, climb the hill, and cross the tracks for a possible encounter with a suitable victim .... and suddenly voila ... two young girls who are much farther away than they should be for their pick-up time.

 

[Cryptonite]

Is the Moron Bridge Park the sort of place that people go to earlier in the day so that they can hike a couple of miles, or is it the sort of place that people go to at 2 in the afternoon? Is the Monon Bridge Trail a 1 hour hike including crossing the bridge?

They had scheduled one hour until they were picked up, right? I'm guessing, but after watching video of the area, crossing the bridge seems like more than a one hour hike return trip.

Has this been discussed? Why were they so far across the bridge if they had only one hour?

Actual trail ends at the beginning of high bridge

 

[otto]

Actual trail ends at the beginning of high bridge

Thanks. From viewing video, I thought there was a path through the forest before reaching the train trestle. Is that a 2 minute walk, or a 20 minutes walk? I had the impression that it was 20 minutes - don't know why.

 

[Confusion]

Not sure where I saw it but I think 12:30, can anyone else confirm?

I thought it was 12:15, but it may have been 12:30. Somewhere in that general time frame anyway.

Is the Moron Bridge Park the sort of place that people go to earlier in the day so that they can hike a couple of miles, or is it the sort of place that people go to at 2 in the afternoon? Is the Monon Bridge Trail a 1 hour hike including crossing the bridge?

They had scheduled one hour until they were picked up, right? I'm guessing, but after watching video of the area, crossing the bridge seems like more than a one hour hike return trip.

Has this been discussed? Why were they so far across the bridge if they had only one hour?

It wasn't a 1 hour hike. They were dropped off at 1:00 and were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30. The last picture (the one of Abby on the bridge) was uploaded just after 2 and I believe those of the guy were taken at 2:30.

 

[Cryptonite]

Thanks. From viewing video, I thought there was a path through the forest before reaching the train trestle. Is that a 2 minute walk, or a 20 minutes walk? I had the impression that it was 20 minutes - don't know why.

From where they were dropped of 15 min easy

 

[Considering]

Thanks! So it's quite possible that he parked along the access road, but that would also suggest that he had a plan of meeting two young girls or a single woman along the bridge. It's quite a lot to do to park some distance away, cross the creek, climb the hill, and cross the tracks for a possible encounter with a suitable victim .... and suddenly voila ... two young girls who are much farther away than they should be for their pick-up time.

There's the possibility of him parking a vehicle (if he had one) at the back of the cemetery, too.

 

[otto]

From where they were dropped of 15 min easy

Let's go with 15 minutes from being dropped off to the beginning of the rotting trestle bridge. One of our websleuthers walked across the bridge. I wonder how long it took? If it takes 20 minutes, that means 1h10m round trip. Was their pick-up time at 3PM, or 3:30? If we go with 3:30PM pick-up time, that gives them 20 minutes to walk on the other side of the bridge before returning. If we go with 3PM, then they would have been late.

How long does it take to safely cross the bridge as a child?
How long did the children plan to be at the park?

Does it add up?

 

[otto]

I thought it was 12:15, but it may have been 12:30. Somewhere in that general time frame anyway.



It wasn't a 1 hour hike. They were dropped off at 1:00 and were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30. The last picture (the one of Abby on the bridge) was uploaded just after 2 and I believe those of the guy were taken at 2:30.

So they were dropped off at 1, and just over an hour later at 2:07PM they were crossing the rotting bridge. They had another hour or so to rendezvous for pickup. It seems to me that they did not have enough time to cross the bridge for any reason other than to turn around and go back to the rendezvous spot if they were going to make it by 3:30PM.

 

[KyMom]

It seems to me that either he walked back across the creek, up the hill, across the bridge, down the path and to the public parking before it was dark, or his car was parked somewhere on the access road under the bridge.

Were there any other people in this popular teenage-girl friendly park close to 5 PM who walked to the bridge that day?

I don't know about close to 5 PM, but a girl came forward and said she'd been there that day, from what I read on here, if correct, it was around 3:49 pm and according to her she saw one guy when she first got there and a couple once she got on the bridge. I personally didn't see any mention of how long any of them were there/what time they may have left.

 

[otto]

I don't know about close to 5 PM, but a girl came forward and said she'd been there that day, from what I read on here, if correct, it was around 3:49 pm and according to her she saw one guy when she first got there and a couple once she got on the bridge. I personally didn't see any mention of how long any of them were there/what time they may have left.

The girls were there at 1PM. They walked to the bridge and started crossing at 1:20PM. At 2:07 they were on the bridge, and by the time they got to the end of the bridge they were in trouble. Let's suppose that by 2:25 they were told to go "down the hill". The then crossed a creek and walked 3/4 of a mile. Let's put the time at 2:45? They were then (presumably) assaulted and murdered. Let's put that at 3:30 or 4PM. Now he has to get out of there as fast as possible.

What happens next in the life of a child predator? Is his car down the access road?

How long was he missing from his usual life? Did he come home happy and relaxed with the usual weight of life temporarily off his shoulders? Was he home in time for dinner? What time did he leave in the morning to be at the bridge when the girls arrived? Was he home for lunch ... not likely if he had to park his car some distance from the bridge and hike far enough to meet the girls on the bridge around 2PM.

 

[otto]

I don't know about close to 5 PM, but a girl came forward and said she'd been there that day, from what I read on here, if correct, it was around 3:49 pm and according to her she saw one guy when she first got there and a couple once she got on the bridge. I personally didn't see any mention of how long any of them were there/what time they may have left.

So she crossed the bridge after 3:49PM. Sundown must be around 6PM? It would be closer to 5PM when she returned to her car? She did this by herself without any concern for the bridge condition?
Do people go there to cross the bridge, turn around and cross it again?

If Libby and Abigail arrived at 1PM and 1h7m later they had still not crossed the bridge, that suggests that crossing the bridge takes them from 1:20 to 2:07 to partially cross the bridge ... 47-53 minutes and they're not yet across once.

Let's assume a minimum of one hour each way on the bridge plus 15 minutes each way to the pick up spot. They were very tight on time. Why didn't someone who was at the park at 3:49, and who crossed the bridge one way at 5:05 not see the suspect either behind or in front of her?

I think we can assume that the suspect did not cross the bridge at dusk or in the dark, but he would have been with the girls, or walking to his vehicle, by 5 in order to have the light.

 

[Elainera]

I'm thinking about the video and audio recordings LE has, and the statements they made. They said

- they are not sure if the recorded voice belongs to the suspect caught on video on the bridge (BG)
- they said about BG that he "at least participated" in the murders

So

- they have seen BG on video but never seen him speak (otherwise they'd know it is his voice on the audio)
- they have seen him do things that show he was "at least" taking part in the crime, but he did not say anything on camera while doing whatever he did
- the crime did not happen on the bridge, so they must have video of him after they left the bridge and arrived at the location where the crime occurred that shows that he is taking part in the murders
- I think it is therefore fair to assume that Libby's phone was not in her pocket or otherwise hidden or lost etc (only recording audio but no picture) after they left the bridge and when the crime occurred, as the video showed BG participating in the crime. Her phone must have been close by and in the open while the crime occurred, at least for some of it.

 

[margarita25]

(Tossing and turning, finally fell asleep, so consumed with all of this...was aWakened out of my sleep with this thought:

RAT visited an adult book store shortly before he killed Alexis Murphy. )

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Let's go with 15 minutes from being dropped off to the beginning of the rotting trestle bridge. One of our websleuthers walked across the bridge. I wonder how long it took? If it takes 20 minutes, that means 1h10m round trip. Was their pick-up time at 3PM, or 3:30? If we go with 3:30PM pick-up time, that gives them 20 minutes to walk on the other side of the bridge before returning. If we go with 3PM, then they would have been late.

How long does it take to safely cross the bridge as a child?
How long did the children plan to be at the park?

Does it add up?

The girls were familar with the bridge.

The walk across is about 8 minutes according to one video I have watched of someone crossing while filming. (IIRC)

 

[otto]

Did the girls reasonably have time to cross the bridge in the 2.5 hours that they had a the park?
Did the suspect park his car at the other bridge (Wilson?)?

What have the people at that park said about vehicles they saw between noon and 7PM Feb 13?