The Flashlight.....

[Ames]

The only explanation for leaving the flashlight out in plain sight....with it wiped clean of prints....would be that it was part of the staging. If it wasn't meant for staging and actually had been used, they would have hidden it, or destroyed it....the fact that it was wiped clean, and left in full view...points to the fact that they didn't just forget that it was there. It was wiped clean...including the batteries...and then placed on purpose where investigators would see it. The flashlight was just another prop...in their planned out staged cover-up. And apparently it has worked...because there are many IDI's out there...that think that the intruder just wiped the flashlight off, (including the batteries)...after using it to smash JB's head in....and then he just left in in plain view, because he FORGOT to take it with him (how could he have picked it up, and wiped it clean of prints...and then forgot that it was there....it was right in front of him...he was wiping off the prints). Theres also some RDI's that think that the flashlight was the weapon, and the Ramsey's forgot that it was left out....again...I will say...WHY take the flashlight after using it as a weapon, wipe it clean...(including the batteries)...and then place it in full view of the police/investigators? If the Ramsey's or the "intruder" picked the flashlight up AT ALL, (which they did to remove the prints) then that tells me that it wasn't forgotten.The Ramsey's NOR an intruder would have taken the time to wipe it clean, after using it....and then leave it in full few, instead of disposing of it..UNLESS it was merely a prop...part of the staging. I want to know what you nice people here think about this. Flashlight as the weapon....or NOT!

 

[Solace]

The only explanation for leaving the flashlight out in plain sight....with it wiped clean of prints....would be that it was part of the staging. If it wasn't meant for staging and actually had been used, they would have hidden it, or destroyed it....the fact that it was wiped clean, and left in full view...points to the fact that they didn't just forget that it was there. It was wiped clean...including the batteries...and then placed on purpose where investigators would see it. The flashlight was just another prop...in their planned out staged cover-up. And apparently it has worked...because there are many IDI's out there...that think that the intruder just wiped the flashlight off, (including the batteries)...after using it to smash JB's head in....and then he just left in in plain view, because he FORGOT to take it with him (how could he have picked it up, and wiped it clean of prints...and then forgot that it was there....it was right in front of him...he was wiping off the prints). Theres also some RDI's that think that the flashlight was the weapon, and the Ramsey's forgot that it was left out....again...I will say...WHY take the flashlight after using it as a weapon, wipe it clean...(including the batteries)...and then place it in full view of the police/investigators? If the Ramsey's or the "intruder" picked the flashlight up AT ALL, (which they did to remove the prints) then that tells me that it wasn't forgotten.The Ramsey's NOR an intruder would have taken the time to wipe it clean, after using it....and then leave it in full few, instead of disposing of it..UNLESS it was merely a prop...part of the staging. I want to know what you nice people here think about this. Flashlight as the weapon....or NOT!

I am going to say the flashlight was not used as the weapon. Patsy pulled and pushed JonBent and JonBenet slipped and hit her head hard. And the sound was loud I bet. I bet Patsy heard the crack. I read by one forensic that there would have been a loud crack. I think Patsy heard it and started to shake her frantically, hence the brusing on both sides of her brain.

 

[Ames]

I am going to say the flashlight was not used as the weapon. Patsy pulled and pushed JonBent and JonBenet slipped and hit her head hard. And the sound was loud I bet. I bet Patsy heard the crack. I read by one forensic that there would have been a loud crack. I think Patsy heard it and started to shake her frantically, hence the brusing on both sides of her brain.

That's also what I believe happened! Changing the subject here...just heard on the news that Anna Nicole Smith died today...she collapsed in Florida.

 

[tumble]

Lets say one of the R's did it with the flashligh and now he/she is facing the problem of disposing of it. This may not seem so easy. Suppose they hide it and the police finds it and then matches the weapon to the wound.

The easiest thing would be to just leave it in plain sight and say the flashlight does not belong at the home. Of course ALL prints have to go then(including the batteries).

As the flashlight indeed came from the house we have a situation were either the intruder wipes the flashlight instead of pocketing it or one of the R's wiping the flashlight for the reason above.

Adding to this the fact that both the R's initially does not accept the flashligh as theirs but tries to distance themselves from it for no good reason, further adds to the conclusion that the flashlight is important and most probably staged to look like a foreign object.

 

[Ames]

Lets say one of the R's did it with the flashligh and now he/she is facing the problem of disposing of it. This may not seem so easy. Suppose they hide it and the police finds it and then matches the weapon to the wound.

The easiest thing would be to just leave it in plain sight and say the flashlight does not belong at the home. Of course ALL prints have to go then(including the batteries).

As the flashlight indeed came from the house we have a situation were either the intruder wipes the flashlight instead of pocketing it or one of the R's wiping the flashlight for the reason above.

Adding to this the fact that both the R's initially does not accept the flashligh as theirs but tries to distance themselves from it for no good reason, further adds to the conclusion that the flashlight is important and most probably staged to look like a foreign object.

They could have hid it in John's golf bag, which is where I believe JB ORIGINAL panties that she wore to the WHITES, was stashed. I just don't think that they would have left the ACTUAL weapon out in plain sight, what if they missed a fingerprint or something, when they were wiping it clean?? Unless they had the knowledge and the tools to dust for fingerprints...they wouldn't have known FOR CERTAIN, that all of the prints were wiped clean. So, why not dispose of it, if that the case. I do think that the initial blow was caused by a push into the tub or sink, but that she was hit again on the head as part of the staging...AFTER she dead...I don't know what the weapon could have been for that second blow...maybe it was the flashlight. I don't believe that the flashlight was the orginal weapon that was used for the first head blow, though. SOOOOO...you DO have a valid point.

 

[Solace]

Lets say one of the R's did it with the flashligh and now he/she is facing the problem of disposing of it. This may not seem so easy. Suppose they hide it and the police finds it and then matches the weapon to the wound.

The easiest thing would be to just leave it in plain sight and say the flashlight does not belong at the home. Of course ALL prints have to go then(including the batteries).

As the flashlight indeed came from the house we have a situation were either the intruder wipes the flashlight instead of pocketing it or one of the R's wiping the flashlight for the reason above.

Adding to this the fact that both the R's initially does not accept the flashligh as theirs but tries to distance themselves from it for no good reason, further adds to the conclusion that the flashlight is important and most probably staged to look like a foreign object.

Tumble: I think Patsy killed JonBenet or thought she did because of the sound of the cracking of her head when it hit the sink or the bath and could not wake her or rouse her even when she shook her frantically and she had to shake hard because she left bruises. She then went to Plan B.

I think she put the flashlight out there to take all eyes away from the bathroom. I think she staged the cellar, etc. to make it appear as though an intruder came in, hit the child and then assaulted her. But there was one thing she could not get and that was the semen from the Intruder, because he did not exist.

The flashlight is staged and it is wiped down because that is what a killer would do, or so Patsy thinks. Then she wrote the note.

 

[JMO8778]

Lets say one of the R's did it with the flashligh and now he/she is facing the problem of disposing of it. This may not seem so easy. Suppose they hide it and the police finds it and then matches the weapon to the wound.

The easiest thing would be to just leave it in plain sight and say the flashlight does not belong at the home. Of course ALL prints have to go then(including the batteries).

As the flashlight indeed came from the house we have a situation were either the intruder wipes the flashlight instead of pocketing it or one of the R's wiping the flashlight for the reason above.

Adding to this the fact that both the R's initially does not accept the flashligh as theirs but tries to distance themselves from it for no good reason, further adds to the conclusion that the flashlight is important and most probably staged to look like a foreign object.

I agree,and I DO think the FL was the weapon used for the skull fracture.I was just reading PMPT,and I think it was Dr Spitz that said he tested 3 different surfaces,inc. a human skull,and the FL was a perfect match..it fit the wound perfectly.
So I don't have any problem thinking that's it...and I think it was wiped and left out so as not to appear to be owned by the R's.

When I get a chance later today,I'll post that section in PMPT.
I had thought it was a possibly caused a golf club,esp since JR asked for his golf clubs,but I suspect that was for another reason...something was hidden in the golf bag.

 

[Ames]

Tumble: I think Patsy killed JonBenet or thought she did because of the sound of the cracking of her head when it hit the sink or the bath and could not wake her or rouse her even when she shook her frantically and she had to shake hard because she left bruises. She then went to Plan B.

I think she put the flashlight out there to take all eyes away from the bathroom. I think she staged the cellar, etc. to make it appear as though an intruder came in, hit the child and then assaulted her. But there was one thing she could not get and that was the semen from the Intruder, because he did not exist.

The flashlight is staged and it is wiped down because that is what a killer would do, or so Patsy thinks. Then she wrote the note.

As you know, I agree with your scenario. I just don't think that the actual murder weapon would have been left out in plain sight...and wiped down. The rest of the staging was done to make it look like an intruder....and I believe that the flashlight was part of that staging....a prop. Think about it...how could the "intruder" be so meticulous about the crime....writing a three page ransom note, wrapping JB's body....etc....BUT....FORGET HIS FLASHLIGHT? Wouldn't he have needed that to SEE where he was going...when he escaped from that window in the basement (yeah, like THAT ever happened). I wonder too...how did this supposed "intruder" get to the Ramsey's house? Did "he" walk? Did "he" ride a bicycle? Did "he drive a car? Did "someone else" drive him"? Did "he" take a cab? I would be interested to know if ANY sort of tracks were found....car tracks, bicycle tracks...I know that they checked for footprints....but, what about tire tracks? Did they check for those? I am quite positive that they would have found absolutely nothing, if they DID look.

 

[Ames]

I agree,and I DO think the FL was the weapon used for the skull fracture.I was just reading PMPT,and I think it was Dr Spitz that said he tested 3 different surfaces,inc. a human skull,and the FL was a perfect match..it fit the wound perfectly.
So I don't have any problem thinking that's it...and I think it was wiped and left out so as not to appear to be owned by the R's.

When I get a chance later today,I'll post that section in PMPT.
I had thought it was a possibly caused a golf club,esp since JR asked for his golf clubs,but I suspect that was for another reason...something was hidden in the golf bag.

Yep, JB's original panties that she wore to the White's....IMO....probably along with some other evidence as well. Who the h*ll thinks about golfing when their daughter as just been murdered? Someone that help to do the deed, or to help stage a coverup....that's who.

 

[Solace]

As you know, I agree with your scenario. I just don't think that the actual murder weapon would have been left out in plain sight...and wiped down. The rest of the staging was done to make it look like an intruder....and I believe that the flashlight was part of that staging....a prop. Think about it...how could the "intruder" be so meticulous about the crime....writing a three page ransom note, wrapping JB's body....etc....BUT....FORGET HIS FLASHLIGHT? Wouldn't he have needed that to SEE where he was going...when he escaped from that window in the basement (yeah, like THAT ever happened). I wonder too...how did this supposed "intruder" get to the Ramsey's house? Did "he" walk? Did "he" ride a bicycle? Did "he drive a car? Did "someone else" drive him"? Did "he" take a cab? I would be interested to know if ANY sort of tracks were found....car tracks, bicycle tracks...I know that they checked for footprints....but, what about tire tracks? Did they check for those? I am quite positive that they would have found absolutely nothing, if they DID look.

Ames. I think we both agree on everything. I don't think the flashlight is the murder weapon. It is part of the staging.

 

[Ames]

Ames. I think we both agree on everything. I don't think the flashlight is the murder weapon. It is part of the staging.

LOL...yes, we do both agree on everything....great minds think alike, huh? I have this uncanny ability to have insight....its a gift. My mother had it too...its a God given gift. I have never been wrong about an instinct....my daughter says that I am psychic....LOL...I don't believe in psychic's. But, I DO believe in insight...and I do have it. The Ramsey's are guilty...I would bet my life on it.

 

[Solace]

LOL...yes, we do both agree on everything....great minds think alike, huh? I have this uncanny ability to have insight....its a gift. My mother had it too...its a God given gift. I have never been wrong about an instinct....my daughter says that I am psychic....LOL...I don't believe in psychic's. But, I DO believe in insight...and I do have it. The Ramsey's are guilty...I would bet my life on it.

I never even thought of the fact that she did not budge when Fleet said call an ambulance. It clinches it for me. Now I do not have to wonder any more, is it possible that they maybe by a scintilla of doubt did not do it. No it is not. She did it, or she would have broken down doors to get to Jon Benet when she heard Fleet White.

Watch some diehard will say "maybe she didn't hear him".

So glad you are here AMES.

 

[Ames]

I never even thought of the fact that she did not budge when Fleet said call an ambulance. It clinches it for me. Now I do not have to wonder any more, is it possible that they maybe by a scintilla of doubt did not do it. No it is not. She did it, or she would have broken down doors to get to Jon Benet when she heard Fleet White.

Watch some diehard will say "maybe she didn't hear him".

So glad you are here AMES.

Yeah, I am sure some people will say that. Doesn't matter that OTHER people in the house heard it, and that when she didn't budge...her friends had to PULL her down the hall. If she hadn't of heard...I am sure she would have ask where they were pulling her to. "What are you guys doing? Why are you pulling me? Where are we going? I was perfectly content on that couch, looking at pictures of JonBenet with my friends, and walking down memory lane." Nope, she heard John...AND Fleet. She just didn't budge, because she didn't want to see her dead child again...and have to deal with what she had done. She, at that point, was just hoping that it would all just GO AWAY. Maybe, she was in a nightmare..and if she looked at JB's body again...it would all be too real for her. All I know, is if she was innocent...and having sat on that couch for hours, waiting on the "kidnappers" to call.....that when she heard the words...John: "I FOUND HER!".....(and by the way, that in itself is a strange comment to make after finding your child, tied up...and obviously dead. My reaction would have been to scream "OH MY GOD....MY BABY!" Not..."I FOUND HER!") and Fleet: "CALL AN AMBULANCE".....she would have took off running...her feet wouldn't have even touched the floor...to her baby's side...seeing if she could help her in any way.


THANK YOU! I am glad to be here!

 

[Solace]

Yeah, I am sure some people will say that. Doesn't matter that OTHER people in the house heard it, and that when she didn't budge...her friends had to PULL her down the hall. If she hadn't of heard...I am sure she would have ask where they were pulling her to. "What are you guys doing? Why are you pulling me? Where are we going? I was perfectly content on that couch, looking at pictures of JonBenet with my friends, and walking down memory lane." Nope, she heard John...AND Fleet. She just didn't budge, because she didn't want to see her dead child again...and have to deal with what she had done. She, at that point, was just hoping that it would all just GO AWAY. Maybe, she was in a nightmare..and if she looked at JB's body again...it would all be too real for her. All I know, is if she was innocent...and having sat on that couch for hours, waiting on the "kidnappers" to call.....that when she heard the words...John: "I FOUND HER!".....(and by the way, that in itself is a strange comment to make after finding your child, tied up...and obviously dead. My reaction would have been to scream "OH MY GOD....MY BABY!" Not..."I FOUND HER!") and Fleet: "CALL AN AMBULANCE".....she would have took off running...her feet wouldn't have even touched the floor...to her baby's side...seeing if she could help her in any way.


THANK YOU! I am glad to be here!

Now that we are sure she did it, can you even think of looking through a scrap book at the child who is "missing". I don't think so Patsy.

 

[Ames]

Now that we are sure she did it, can you even think of looking through a scrap book at the child who is "missing". I don't think so Patsy.

Nope...she knew she was dead. In a case like that, a person would only be walking down memory lane with their friends, while looking at pictures of their MISSING daughter....IF they knew that their "missing" daughter was already dead. When my daughter sneaked out of the house, and was missing for a long time....looking at pictures of her would be the LAST thing that we would have done. My butt would have been up from that couch scouring the house for CLUES, and knocking on neighbor's doors.......it would have been way more productive than looking at pictures of my "MISSING" child.

 

[Ames]

Okay...if your daughter was MISSING...and you found her obviously dead in the basement with her wrists tied...(and a garotte around her neck....yeah, yeah...I know....JR said that he didn't notice that....yeah RIGHT!)...would you scream "I FOUND HER!".....or would you scream bloody murder...."OH MY GOD...MY POOR BABY!" And be inconsolable, and hysterical??? I just can't imagine someone "stumbling" across their dead child, and then yelling upstairs..."I FOUND HER!" Like she was hiding in the closet or something....

 

[UKGuy]

The only explanation for leaving the flashlight out in plain sight....with it wiped clean of prints....would be that it was part of the staging. If it wasn't meant for staging and actually had been used, they would have hidden it, or destroyed it....the fact that it was wiped clean, and left in full view...points to the fact that they didn't just forget that it was there. It was wiped clean...including the batteries...and then placed on purpose where investigators would see it. The flashlight was just another prop...in their planned out staged cover-up. And apparently it has worked...because there are many IDI's out there...that think that the intruder just wiped the flashlight off, (including the batteries)...after using it to smash JB's head in....and then he just left in in plain view, because he FORGOT to take it with him (how could he have picked it up, and wiped it clean of prints...and then forgot that it was there....it was right in front of him...he was wiping off the prints). Theres also some RDI's that think that the flashlight was the weapon, and the Ramsey's forgot that it was left out....again...I will say...WHY take the flashlight after using it as a weapon, wipe it clean...(including the batteries)...and then place it in full view of the police/investigators? If the Ramsey's or the "intruder" picked the flashlight up AT ALL, (which they did to remove the prints) then that tells me that it wasn't forgotten.The Ramsey's NOR an intruder would have taken the time to wipe it clean, after using it....and then leave it in full few, instead of disposing of it..UNLESS it was merely a prop...part of the staging. I want to know what you nice people here think about this. Flashlight as the weapon....or NOT!

Ames,

How about that the flashlight was used in the commission of a homicide, regardless of the part it played, but since the staging in the wine-cellar had changed then the flashlight was redundant, so it was removed and wiped clean to make sure there was no comeback?

Is that not simpler than a double-bluff scenario, where the police might ask hey, why is an intruder wiping the inside of the flashlight, including the batteries clean, when he likely brought it with him, so he can just take it out with him, or is it a Ramsey flashlight, and he thoughtfully brought some new batteries along to assist in his homicide, or did he know which drawer replacement batteries were held?


kiss and occam win every time!


.

 

[Show Me]

Ames,

How about that the flashlight was used in the commission of a homicide, regardless of the part it played, but since the staging in the wine-cellar had changed then the flashlight was redundant, so it was removed and wiped clean to make sure there was no comeback?

Is that not simpler than a double-bluff scenario, where the police might ask hey, why is an intruder wiping the inside of the flashlight, including the batteries clean, when he likely brought it with him, so he can just take it out with him, or is it a Ramsey flashlight, and he thoughtfully brought some new batteries along to assist in his homicide, or did he know which drawer replacement batteries were held?


kiss and occam win every time!


.

I agree UK Guy, unless one of them darn foreign faction monitoring kidnapping murderers was kind enough to wipe the flashlight clean after using it in the death of JonBenet.

Just one of those little annoying details details which scream 'guilty knowledge' like:

Inviting multiple friends over when the kidnappers wrote they are monitoring you and will behead your daughter if you so much as talk to a stray dog.

Forgetting to tell cops about a strange van in the alley the morning you are looking for any clues.

Forgetting to bring your 3 page ransom note with you.

Forgetting to bring your deadly paintbrush with you.

Forgetting to take the kidnap victim with you.

 

[Ames]

Ames,

How about that the flashlight was used in the commission of a homicide, regardless of the part it played, but since the staging in the wine-cellar had changed then the flashlight was redundant, so it was removed and wiped clean to make sure there was no comeback?

Is that not simpler than a double-bluff scenario, where the police might ask hey, why is an intruder wiping the inside of the flashlight, including the batteries clean, when he likely brought it with him, so he can just take it out with him, or is it a Ramsey flashlight, and he thoughtfully brought some new batteries along to assist in his homicide, or did he know which drawer replacement batteries were held?


kiss and occam win every time!


.

But if it was used at all to cause the headwound...why would they just leave it out in the open. Why not dispose of it, what if....when they wiped it down, they forgot a print or two. I just think that it was all part of the staging...I do see your point though...and can appreciate it. Of course, I believe that the Ramsey's are the stagers of the flashlight prop.

 

[Ames]

I agree UK Guy, unless one of them darn foreign faction monitoring kidnapping murderers was kind enough to wipe the flashlight clean after using it in the death of JonBenet.

Just one of those little annoying details details which scream 'guilty knowledge' like:

Inviting multiple friends over when the kidnappers wrote they are monitoring you and will behead your daughter if you so much as talk to a stray dog.

Forgetting to tell cops about a strange van in the alley the morning you are looking for any clues.

Forgetting to bring your 3 page ransom note with you.

Forgetting to bring your deadly paintbrush with you.

Forgetting to take the kidnap victim with you.

Oh there is no doubt in my mind that one of the Ramsey's wiped it clean. But, I just believe that it had no part in the crime...except when one of the Ramsey's used it (one of the neighbors said that they saw a flashlight being used inside of the Ramsey's house...I believe it was coming from the kitchen)...just in case a neighbor were to see. (Their plan worked...because the neighbors DID see it). I believe that it was later wiped clean, BY A RAMSEY and put into full view...as a prop. I believe that IT was part of the staging....(trying to lead the investigators to believe that it belonged to the intruder....who...by the way...WOULD NOT have wiped it clean and left it....he would have taken it with him).