IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[heaterann]

I feel confident that LE has thoroughly examined the girls social media.

So let's pretend that 100% of us agree that one of the girls was meeting up with someone. Now tell me what we, as members here, do with that?

We can't sleuth their friends or family or random friends on their social media, so I'm not understanding where you're going with this?

We can, and some have, sleuthed away, but it can't be discussed here, so it isn't.

Now I'm frustrated.

JMO

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My whole point was that I was over everyone this morning talking about the girls clothes as a means to judge the character of these girls. You can not determine what these girls personal lives were like or what kind of girls they were based on their dress. That was my whole point. I have seen women who were dressed very trashy not give it up at a bar and Ive seen the innocent looking good girl go home with the first guy who bought her a drink... CLOTHING DOES NOT SHOW WHAT A PERSON IS LIKE. And your correct since we can not sleuth victims or their families or friends with that said then there is no way for us on WS to know for a fact what these girls were really like or what they were really doing out there that day. IMHO

 

[Imvp2]

I think this is quite possible. But if so, wouldn't the family know instantly who would be out for revenge? Wouldn't they be able to quickly point LE to the perps?

I think you're right. In my opinion, This creep doesn't live in Delphi, but a close town. He knows just enough about the area, but the folks in the town don't know him.

In my opinion, he has a mindset of not wanting to "potty" (other crude words could apply) In the area (town) he lives. So Delphi is not his hometown and he's never lived there. I'm guessing he lives on the peripheral of a town close by.

I think he lives with an elderly relative that he keeps pretty much isolated. I think he's done this before, at least once, and runs through various scenarios in his mind. In my opinion, these scenarios make him seem pretty well practiced.

 

[Novelist]

I can see your point, and I agree that it is statistically unlikely that two teenage girls would opt for hiking on a day off from school. At the same time, two rural girls opting for this activity on a trail that is well known in the local area is not unheard of.

As for the presence of BG, he could well have been pre-disposed to commit a horrific crime and have been "trawling" in an area that he felt comfortable in. If his mood, the victims, and the immediate environment (lack of witnesses) were all "right", BG would initiate the crime. If something changed, BG would break off the crime.

This is where I get hung up on the "random guy" theory.

On a particular day where school is using a snow day so everyone is out + two friends deciding to go out to a secluded area for whatever reason + a very small time frame + a random SK/first time killer/stranger/drifter being in the same place + same time of day as the girls + in a small isolated town in Indiana. And this all came together in one complete act? What is the saying about putting enough monkeys in a room with typewriters?

IMO they either knew BG or he knew they would be there. Catfish, retaliation, (insert other theory here), etc. I find it hard to accept this was a chance meeting that went terribly wrong. I'm not saying it couldn't happen or never has happened, but it is still hard to swollow.

Just my .02

 

[IllinoisMissing]

My whole point was that I was over everyone this morning talking about the girls clothes as a means to judge the character of these girls. You can not determine what these girls personal lives were like or what kind of girls they were based on their dress. That was my whole point. I have seen women who were dressed very trashy not give it up at a bar and Ive seen the innocent looking good girl go home with the first guy who bought her a drink... CLOTHING DOES NOT SHOW WHAT A PERSON IS LIKE. And your correct since we can not sleuth victims or their families or friends with that said then there is no way for us on WS to know for a fact what these girls were really like or what they were really doing out there that day. IMHO

Yes you are absolutely correct and I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.

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[ninij9]

Its frustrating because theres no way that anyone could possibly know who these girls were like based off of a picture. If people think they can tell if someone is "innocent" "nice" "natural looking" "normal" based off of a few pictures I am just floored by that whole concept. Like I said being victim friendly is one thing ie we should not make rude comments about them or their family but to do the complete opposite with nothing to go on but a few pics does not seem in the spirit of sleuthing.... I hope the LE dont take that same approach.... well they look innocent so lets just focus on the pic of the BG and not look into these girls social media pages, their friends, or their lives??? JMO

By all means their social media and lives should be, and most definitely were looked into. I never ever implied otherwise. Nor have I implied that, based upon their photos, that I knew their personalities. But yes they are/were "innocent", sweet and pure. They were 13. I stand by that strongly. They were dressed normally. I will also stand by that.

My opinion frustrates you, it shouldn't. I'm not forcing it on you. Really I'm not. I dont worry about what you or anyone else thinks. I've been wrong and I've been right.


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[WebSight]

My 14yo never wants to wear a coat unless it is sub-zero. She fixes her hair no matter where she is going. We do not allow make-up yet but if we did, she'd be wearing that too. I think for what was supposed to be a 2-2 1/2 hour outing in the warm winter sunshine and planning on pics taken, this would be normal attire. JMO.

Ditto!

 

[ocgrad]

I don't think RL has ever had his property searched since this all began.

News articles say they searched his property. "Now Logan’s property is a crime scene, filled with investigators, the FBI, and dive teams.
“There were hundreds of cars and vehicles and generator trucks that keep the lights going. They had the whole woods lit up like a football field,” Logan said.
Officials searched every inch of Logan’s 40 acres"
I think i read somewhere they searched his car also. Can't find it.

 

[Imvp2]

Agreed. I don't think in this case their appearance gives us any clues besides what a sick the perp is.

It also shouldn't matter if you look sweet and innocent or not. Any victim regardless of their appearance/makeup/clothing choices is a victim, and their appearance is not something they should be judged for. Not saying anyone here is doing that, the thought just popped in my head.

Someones appearance doesn't make anyone any less of a victim (I get the idea that appearance may help to figure out clues of the perp, in this case I think it's too vague.) JMO.


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You're right. My girls are the same age, one with a striking resemblance to one of the children, which is why this case is on my mind, often. Both have dressed pretty much exactly as both of these kids. Just typical clothing here in Indiana. Nothing says "date" or "meet up" with someone. Just girls taking pics in a well traveled nature area. My girls have done this dozens of times

 

[TTF14]

Hello WS posters. I have been following this for the last couple weeks. Have also been reading news reports about this case. I won't mention any names but will reference an article I read that caught my attention. Just wanted to know opinions or if I am reading too much into this. From this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

I don't remember reading that Abby had a brother (which is no big deal) but he states he didn't know Abby yet he knew she had an 18 year old brother.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

My first thought was, why would he think she would try to run away.

Am I reading too much into this? Thoughts?

Abby's obituary does not mention any siblings at all. Nor does it mention anyone on the paternal side of the family; not even her father.

Is it possible this "18 year old brother" (if he exists) is a half brother? Did Abby have any kind of relationship with her father or his side of the family?

 

[heaterann]

Abby's obituary does not mention any siblings at all. Nor does it mention anyone on the paternal side of the family; not even her father.

Is it possible this "18 year old brother" (if he exists) is a half brother? Did Abby have any kind of relationship with her father or his side of the family?

I would love to know the answers to all those questions they are excellent questions but we can not sleuth victims or their families on this site

 

[ocgrad]

I mean to add to that it's highly possible this suspect had never been there. I for one don't think it's a stretch to picture somebody googling secluded public hiking trails and studying them on a map. Now after saying this I still tend to believe that he is atleast semi local, just my gut nothing more. But in reality I wouldn't be suprised to find that it's either one. There is just so little we know, I mean the video and audio is supose to be the bombshell in this case, but personally I think both are so generic that very little can be discerned from either one.....Moo


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I agree semi local but perhaps with someone local who was not in the video. Waiting down on the road.

 

[Kissy]

According to what i have read a felony gives them your dna, not sure if they are able to have a person come in for questioning offer them a can of soda then collect it after they leave. Jmo

I I believe they can collect dna/information any way they want, they just might not be able to use it in court. I'm sure no one is leaving their presence without them getting dna or a fingerprint or *something* one way or the other.

 

[Novelist]

<modsnip>

Careful. Can't sleuth family on here. All I will say is keep following your gut...

 

[pseudo_hum]

According to what i have read a felony gives them your dna, not sure if they are able to have a person come in for questioning offer them a can of soda then collect it after they leave. Jmo

I believe they can. I recall a case where police followed a suspect around, in public, and recovered a discarded cigarette butt, and they got their suspect. {IMO}

 

[kryst4]

Just speculating, but perhaps BG grew up in Delphi and since moved away. Could explain why he would be familiar with the area, yet an out of towner.

 

[Aycheff]

Hi everyone, I've been a guest on Websleuths for a couple of years and finally decided to join. Baby Deorr's case first brought me here. I am usually reading along on the latest cases. I first heard about Abby and Libby about a week ago and have been following since. Horrifying. Hoping every morning that they have caught the person responsible! Can hardly wrap my head around this.

 

[liltexans]

Hi everyone, I've been a guest on Websleuths for a couple of years and finally decided to join. Baby Deorr's case first brought me here. I am usually reading along on the latest cases. I first heard about Abby and Libby about a week ago and have been following since. Horrifying. Hoping every morning that they have caught the person responsible! Can hardly wrap my head around this.

Welcome to Websleuths!

:welcome:

 

[Hazelnutty]

IMO they could have innocently interacted with him or he could have seen via social media that they were there. IMO BG knew they would be there but the girls did not invite him or plan to meet him there. JMO

<snipped the quote, hope that's allowed.

I also think he could have possibly been stalking these precious girls by having access to their SM thru one of his own children's SM or by catfishing.

 

[OtisC]

This is where I get hung up on the "random guy" theory.

On a particular day where school is using a snow day so everyone is out + two friends deciding to go out to a secluded area for whatever reason + a very small time frame + a random SK/first time killer/stranger/drifter being in the same place + same time of day as the girls + in a small isolated town in Indiana. And this all came together in one complete act? What is the saying about putting enough monkeys in a room with typewriters?

IMO they either knew BG or he knew they would be there. Catfish, retaliation, (insert other theory here), etc. I find it hard to accept this was a chance meeting that went terribly wrong. I'm not saying it couldn't happen or never has happened, but it is still hard to swollow.

Just my .02

I agree, based on statistics, that this was not the "perfect storm" in the sense that it was purely spontaneous.

However, I do think a "perfect storm" was planned by BG and he waited for the opportunity.

I think the ingredients of this perfect storm are: 1) Location 2) Girl(s) [age and looks] 3) Timing.

You do have me considering how much advance notice was given that the unused snow day would be taken that day. How many days did he have to plan this particular act?

Thanks for your input.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[Imvp2]

Hello WS posters. I have been following this for the last couple weeks. Have also been reading news reports about this case. I won't mention any names but will reference an article I read that caught my attention. Just wanted to know opinions or if I am reading too much into this. From this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

I don't remember reading that Abby had a brother (which is no big deal) but he states he didn't know Abby yet he knew she had an 18 year old brother.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

My first thought was, why would he think she would try to run away.

Am I reading too much into this? Thoughts?

Wow. Hopefully LE checked this out already. I'm thinking Mr Patty would have discussed this with LE