Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

[marsyao]

It could have but cars don't sink in a few seconds, it takes a bit. Personally if I noticed my car sinking I would jump out.


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By the undoing seat belt and roll down car window, looks like she did tried to getting out

 

[Deleted member 155000]

By the undoing seat belt and roll down car window, looks like she did tried to getting out

You should go back and watch the video made by professionals that I posted early in this thread. It takes 30-60 seconds for a car going off a dock to submerge and the trained experts have to work quickly, removing seat belts while still on the dock, to be ready to exit in time. And they know it's going to happen and have been trained on how to escape.


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[Capstan07]

Just to add further the way the car was hooked using a "J" hook without a snatch block to double the line and without two attach points makes it likely to break the winch cable. A broken winch cable under tension can literally amputate a limb or even kill someone. You you be amazed the potential energy released when a winch cable under tension snaps. So I don't understand why the truck operator took the personal risks he / she did. A car underwater with silt has enormous drag that you are pulling against plus the current too.



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EDIT: I just watched the video from another angle of the recovery and they did use a snatch block doubling the cable. They also pulled the car with a class C heavy duty wrecker for semis. So no real extra danger of a cable breaking. (Always a risk with winch cables but noting excessive here)

All of my other criticisms I stand by. I found a new angle on YouTub showing (2) winch lines but still just one attach point to the car and damage being done to the car. No reason to damage the car more.




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[n_6CC]

The were towing her car on the front wheels and the focus is front wheel drive. That means 1 of 4 things.

1--vehicle was in neutral when recovered. If it was in any other gear doesn't matter auto or manual trans it would not roll. (Her car is auto per what I have read)

2--vehicle was put into neutral using the shifter and keys after recovery so it would roll. Alternately the shifter interlock on Fords can be bypassed by getting inside the vehicle and popping the cover around the selector off. Seems unlikely especially if body in car.

3--hood was popped and transmission shift cable was popped loose at transaxle and car put into neutral under the hood.

4--transmission was damaged and no longer connected mechanically to front wheels allowing them to spin freely.

I dont one like any of these scenarios as each would contaminate the vehicle before a meticulius forensic inspection of the vehicle--now if her vehicle just happened to be in neutral when it came out of the water......then......

.....,but her parents and PS insist the gear selector was in Reverse. So this confuses me.

Did anyone else remember reading that her parents paid the towing company to pick it up?


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[carpeverum]

Obviously I wasn't there so have no idea what communications or protocols local LE have. I have no idea the motives for recovering the car the way it was done.

It absolutely damaged the car and complicates a forensic investigation.

Certainly they knew this was Toni's car. That's something everyone can agree on. LE knew this was her car. Based on my experience and really common sense dragging her car up and towing it wheels down just seems extremely careless.

Just my opinion. I don't understand why it was done in this manor. If I was a paranoid conspiracy theorist I would almost say they wanted to contaminate and damage potential evidence. I'm not saying that and I'm not a paranoid conspiracy person.

I really don't understand in a big city, even a small town, not having basic rigging and a flatbed for transport.


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RBBM

I completely agree with you, and just want to mention that though I'm not into conspiracy theories: I'm trying to keep an open mind. Police corruption and cover-ups have actually happened. and I'm still of a mind to think that there's no solid physical evidence pointing to any one theory. Seems even the circumstantial evidence (which appears to be greater than physical evidence at this time)...has some glaring holes in it also.

I wish I could remember where it was that I read that Toni's body was retrieved even before they brought her car to surface. I thought it was Dennis Watters who said her body was retrieved under water, and they had to break the front windshield in order to do so.

I'll keep that in rumor category unless and until I can find a MSM confirmation.

 

[thekarmabus]

Just to add further the way the car was hooked using a "J" hook without a snatch block to double the line and without two attach points makes it likely to break the winch cable. A broken winch cable under tension can literally amputate a limb or even kill someone. You you be amazed the potential energy released when a winch cable under tension snaps. So I don't understand why the truck operator took the personal risks he / she did. A car underwater with silt has enormous drag that you are pulling against plus the current too.


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I hope you don't mind me asking and don't respond if you wish. I believe you stated you were messaging with Pete Sr. privately. Did you seek him out? You him?

And I agree with you on how it was taken out. I was shocked and at one point when there were 4-5 on bank next to it I thought it looked like it could have been a dangerous situation from a cable snapping standpoint. I've been in range of a tension snap and it isn't pretty!


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[Capstan07]

Did anyone else remember reading that her parents paid the towing company to pick it up?


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Whoooooa. What? Never ever ever seen this. Each State is different but when it's an accident recovery involving any LE investigation--even a crash--LE has approved and certified recovery vendors on a "rotation" roster to respond and follow proper protocols for recovery.

Anytime a vehicle is on public property or in a waterway always an approved vendor making sure all protocols are followed--including environmental containment of fluids etc.

Even if a person wanted to use their own company or roadside assistance it doesn't happen in serious accidents in my state.

I don't know the protocols here in TAs case but WOW if her parents paid the wrecker company and choose the company.

This car I'm shocked wouldn't be towed by an approved, experienced vendor with experienced personnel and following all approved protocols established in advance by LE.

Then the car would be transported to either the investigating agency's forensic lab, an approved private lab or secured and sealed storage until the car can be inspected.

There is a chain of custody of the vehicle to make sure everything is preserved. My company maintains climate controlled storage under video and guard per our contract with LE. The vehicle cannot be just left for someone to tamper with.

If her parents organized the recovery I don't even know what to say but that's just horriblely bad for so many reasons.


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[thekarmabus]

Whoooooa. What? Never ever ever seen this. Each State is different but when it's an accident recovery involving any LE investigation--even a crash--LE has approved and certified recovery vendors on a "rotation" roster to respond and follow proper protocols for recovery.

Anytime a vehicle is on public property or in a waterway always an approved vendor making sure all protocols are followed--including environmental containment of fluids etc.

Even if a person wanted to use their own company or roadside assistance it doesn't happen in serious accidents in my state.

I don't know the protocols here in TAs case but WOW if her parents paid the wrecker company and choose the company.

This car I'm shocked wouldn't be towed by an approved, experienced vendor with experienced personnel and following all approved protocols established in advance by LE.

Then the car would be transported to either the investigating agency's forensic lab, an approved private lab or secured and sealed storage until the car can be inspected.

There is a chain of custody of the vehicle to make sure everything is preserved. My company maintains climate controlled storage under video and guard per our contract with LE. The vehicle cannot be just left for someone to tamper with.

If her parents organized the recovery I don't even know what to say but that's just horrible bad for so many reasons.


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I'm not sure if the parents paid or not but it would make sense. During the live broadcast the ex wife of the tow truck driver was chiming in saying toni was in the car etc via a phone conversation with him in truck. ..very unprofessional and my guess would not be standard protocol if it was contracted through LE. Sure her comments are still on the live feed ( channel 5 I believe).


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[possumheart]

I'm not sure if the parents paid or not but it would make sense. During the live broadcast the ex wife of the tow truck driver was chiming in saying toni was in the car etc via a phone conversation with him in truck. ..very unprofessional and my guess would not be standard protocol if it was contracted through LE. Sure her comments are still on the live feed ( channel 5 I believe).


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How sad

 

[Capstan07]

I hope you don't mind me asking and don't respond if you wish. I believe you stated you were messaging with Pete Sr. privately. Did you seek him out? You him?

And I agree with you on how it was taken out. I was shocked and at one point when there were 4-5 on bank next to it I thought it looked like it could have been a dangerous situation from a cable snapping standpoint. I've been in range of a tension snap and it isn't pretty!


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I'm not PS, Sr. Last night PS, Sr. had a live Q&A session on the official TA Missing / Found FB page. It's a private group and moderated. The participants have been vetted to insure they are who they say they are.

I asked a few questions and a couple on messenger on FB privately. The transcript is persevered online on the FB page and PS, Sr per the mod agreed to come back for more live Q and A sessions.

It was by chance I applied to join the FB page and they were having the live session.

I have never met PS, Sr., have no inside info and my only contact was a few sentences in messenger and participating in the live Q and A.

Thanks.


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[marsyao]

You should go back and watch the video made by professionals that I posted early in this thread. It takes 30-60 seconds for a car going off a dock to submerge and the trained experts have to work quickly, removing seat belts while still on the dock, to be ready to exit in time. And they know it's going to happen and have been trained on how to escape.


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Yes, but Toni was no expert, she did not know that would happen, and shcould hit her head on the steer wheel or being panic

 

[n_6CC]

Whoooooa. What? Never ever ever seen this. Each State is different but when it's an accident recovery involving any LE investigation--even a crash--LE has approved and certified recovery vendors on a "rotation" roster to respond and follow proper protocols for recovery.

Anytime a vehicle is on public property or in a waterway always an approved vendor making sure all protocols are followed--including environmental containment of fluids etc.

Even if a person wanted to use their own company or roadside assistance it doesn't happen in serious accidents in my state.

I don't know the protocols here in TAs case but WOW if her parents paid the wrecker company and choose the company.

This car I'm shocked wouldn't be towed by an approved, experienced vendor with experienced personnel and following all approved protocols established in advance by LE.

Then the car would be transported to either the investigating agency's forensic lab, an approved private lab or secured and sealed storage until the car can be inspected.

There is a chain of custody of the vehicle to make sure everything is preserved. My company maintains climate controlled storage under video and guard per our contract with LE. The vehicle cannot be just left for someone to tamper with.

If her parents organized the recovery I don't even know what to say but that's just horriblely bad for so many reasons.


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I will look back through info that I have from that day. I cannot be sure so don't quote me on that. I was wondering if anyone else remembered hearing that as well. Thanks for all of this info.


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[BigRedTomato]

In response to posts #450, #460

My thoughts as I was watching that too. I've seen some big cables break and hooks go flying when pulling out large equipment and trees. Really, I would have thought that two rigs would have been used with multiple attachment in that situation.

Seems attaching on to the vehicle was compromised by the large degree of silt and debris around it. And I agree with another poster, it does not seem the retrieval and protection of evidence was handled particularly well.

 

[Capstan07]

I hope someone in TAs family would file a civil suite against Chrome, NKCPD, David Jolly aka Jay Wigs, the State or city for the poorly marked boat ramp and anyone else for preservation of evidence and to compel more discovery. It's an effective tool because of discovery etc.

Sad PS, Sr can't even hire a PI bc of state laws and the family won't cooperate. I'd really like to see the money used for a PI, a second independent autopsy and hiring a very good criminal lawyer or personal injury lawyer that's competent to steer the investigation.


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[Capstan07]

The Ford Focus is a computer controlled engine. Does anyone know if the onboard computer could be read after being submerged? I know in accident investigations parameters like braking force, engine rpms, gear selection and speed can be often retrieved.

Is that possible here?


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[ReecieV]

I'm way behind so sorry if this has been posted. Here is a video someone did of Toni's path to the boat ramp. I just don't see how she would be that lost to end up there
[video=youtube;UG6JaCx8J8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6JaCx8J8k&sns=em[/video]


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[Capstan07]

In response to posts #450, #460

My thoughts as I was watching that too. I've seen some big cables break and hooks go flying when pulling out large equipment and trees. Really, I would have thought that two rigs would have been used with multiple attachment in that situation.

Seems attaching on to the vehicle was compromised by the large degree of silt and debris around it. And I agree with another poster, it does not seem the retrieval and protection of evidence was handled particularly well.

You attach in the best location possible initially. Once the vehicle has been shifted some you reattached at the proper locations. It isn't a one shot deal. Using double attach points allows one attach point to keep tension on vehicle so you don't loose it while the other point can be moved.

No reason to pull it the way they did. It was sloppy and potentially compromised a forensic investigation.

If the single attachment had broken, with the current, they could have lost the whole car tumbling / floating down the river.

Just sloppy and not good for the investigation. IMO.


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[Deleted member 155000]

Yes, but Toni was no expert, she did not know that would happen, and shcould hit her head on the steer wheel or being panic

Yes, that's exactly my point. Completely agree.


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[kittymittons]

By the undoing seat belt and roll down car window, looks like she did tried to getting out

She would had to have been trying to roll down the window before being submerged in the water fully. I have a feeling automatic window controls wouldn't work under water, because of the electronics and possibly the force of the water against the window.

So if she tried to roll it down to escape before the vehicle was fully submerged in water, I'd guess she'd try to just open the door instead.

My guess is the window was down before while she was driving. JMO.


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[StPauliGirlK]

I really don't understand in a big city, even a small town, not having basic rigging and a flatbed for transport.

They managed to have a flatbed for the SUV they pulled out from the same area a few hours earlier.