IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #30

[0101ABA]

NEW RULE: IF YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER YOU MUST GET PERMISSION FIRST. PLEASE SEND A PRIVATE MESSAGE TO ANY OF THE MODERATORS. BE PATIENT BECAUSE IT WILL TAKE TIME TO GET BACK WITH YOU

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Dear Websleuths Members,

Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

Please take a moment to read our ruleshttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

PS. Thank you KayElJay for letting me post in your opening post.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

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Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those of two teenage girls who went missing Mondayand their deaths are being investigated as homicides, authorities said on Wednesday.

State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said autopsies performed Wednesday determined that the bodies are those of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, both of Delphi.

Their bodies were found Tuesday afternoon along Deer Creek near Delphi, about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis. Police said the girls’ bodies were about three-quarters of a mile from an abandoned railroad bridge where they were dropped off Monday to go hiking.

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

Pictures of Abby and Libby
Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

 

[tlcya]

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at (800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Audio loop http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

SGT. KIM RILEY, INDIANA STATE POLICE (via telephone) with CNN re: three posts in the image on the bridge

RILEY: We have looked at it. We`ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture -- we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there`s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you`ll notice that there`s actually three poles there to keep cars from being -- trying to drive across the bridge. So that`s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks.

Teen used cell phone to capture chilling audio of her killer: Police

 

[tlcya]

ADMIN NOTE: Do NOT post photos of random individuals in a side by side fashion to compare with unidentified suspect. You may be sleuthing someone ten ways to Sunday but do NOT post about it here. Until there is a named suspect to sleuth it is against TOS.

If you feel you have a tip by all means phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

Posts that are outside the rules are subject to removal without warning or explanation. Members who continue to post against the rules are subject to a loss of posting privileges.

Please continue discussing while being mindful of the rules which can always be found linked in my signature.

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Because so many members were brand new, we, the owner and staff, have been very patient with you. We thought you deserved some time to learn the ropes. Well, you've had almost two weeks to figure out how we roll here. If you haven't bothered to read the Rules, especially Etiquette and Information, then shame on ya.

Going forward, we will issue Time Outs of 24 hours or longer. No excuses, no questions asked. Consider this a fair warning.

Bessie
WS ADMINISTRATOR

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

In case you haven't seen the videos made by our member "grayhuze" here they are all in one place.

I would highly recommend you watch these videos if you haven't already.

You get the full sense of how it must have been for Abby and Libby in addition to helping you understand the crime scene.

Video # 1 [video=youtube;_TFz4citG68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFz4citG68&index=2&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws[/video]

Video # 2 - [video=youtube;AS24hYv_X8Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS24hYv_X8Q&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws&index=1[/video]

Video # 3 [video=youtube;HH3twaMV9Fg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH3twaMV9Fg&index=3&list=PLm8YOVMTz18HSfgvOn7eBtCVaCghbLHws[/video]


Thank you grayhuze for taking the time to help Abby and Libby.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

 

[tlcya]

As of Today's date there are no NAMED POIs or suspects. There is a suspect who is unidentified and is the subject in the images taken from Liberty German's phone.

That unidentified male is being referred to here as BG (bridge guy).

T

 

[theirmommy]

Thinking all day of these sweet girls. Hoping you get justice soon.

 

[Yvettea]

Given what we've observed in BG picture, he may have arrived by bike to carry out this murder. That would mean it was probably a premeditated crime directed at specific victims by a local.

 

[pandorasbox]

Given what we've observed in BG picture, he may have arrived by bike to carry out this murder. That would mean it was probably a premeditated crime directed at specific victims by a local.

I don't think he looks fit enough to be on a bicycle, but maybe a moped or motorcycle.

 

[Yvettea]

He seems to have something around his pant legs to prevent them being caught in spokes.

 

[skibaboo]

Thread 30. Please let this be the one where we hear what we are all hoping for!

#FindHim
#Arrest
#JusticeForAbby&Libby

 

[bernie78]

I apologize if this has been discussed. I just imported the BG photo into a program in order to zoom in very close. To me, JMO, it looks as if there is a long object going down the front of his jeans from the right pocket. Like a baton. IMO

 

[Yvettea]

I apologize if this has been discussed. I just imported the BG photo into a program in order to zoom in very close. To me, JMO, it looks as if there is a long object going down the front of his jeans from the right pocket. Like a baton. IMO

I've noticed something there.

 

[Jovi Girl]

I have been following but not able to catch up on all the posts. Did LE indicate why they are sure BG is the prime suspect ?

 

[sasaz]

I too thought that, but I think it's the resolution and the angle of the photo. Also, I tried to reply with quote and it won't let me type spaces in between words, so this message is in response to the poster above where it was mentioned that perhaps there was a baton or something of sorts in his pant leg.

 

[alucardsdream]

I don't think he looks fit enough to be on a bicycle, but maybe a moped or motorcycle.

I agree, he doesn't look like the type to be on a bicycle, but who knows...the problem is that he's just so generic looking, he could be anyone.

 

[JJ007]

I think I’m onto something big here and it’s taken some time to develop so here me out.

I have a theory that’s tied to the past. There’s a serial killer (It’s unclear to me if he’s been convicted of killing or just abducting several or only one woman at this point), but was convicted and sent to jail in 1995 - Larry Dewayne Hall. He was from Wabash, IN. He is doing life for an abduction. It is assumed he committed a lot of murders. An LE insider believes he had an accomplice (below). I think the accomplice did this crime.

This is a guy who traveled from Wabash, Indiana all the way to Nevada to kill young women the police believe. He (and his brother) both did Civil War reenactments across the country together. It’s been speculated by several investigative writers, expert investigators, witnesses and police officers that Hall had an accomplice in some of the crimes he committed. More specifically there was a police officer at one time (a female officer whose father was a former detective investigating Hall in Wabash, IN). The female officer was interviewed for a book I believe in 2009 and she with her father believed there was an accomplice because the brothers traveled together for one specific event in a specific year a murder happened placing them both at the crime’s specific location stated in the book and interview link below. I believe this to be true as well based on what I’ve read. I’ve read quite a bit. Hall was born and raised in Wabash, IN. It’s not too far from Delphi, IN. Anyway Hall has a twin brother and at one point Gary, his twin tried to give his brother an alibi for the Jessica Roach abduction, which didn’t work - I’m surprised the brother wasn’t arrested at this point, although maybe he was brought in for further questioning, who knows. Regardless their father was a Sexton and they worked in a *cemetery as youths, were abused, bed wetters, alcoholic father, classic serial murder stuff. Larry’s suspected body dump sites were in wooded areas, parks, rivers, etc. The crazy part is Larry Hall has never been convicted of murder, only abduction I believe at this point on a federal charge, although that could have changed recently. All the above is specific to Larry Hall outside of paraphrasing regarding the brother with regard to trips taken as noted in the links below and what the police officer believed. You have to watch the documentary and read the excerpt below from an Unsolved Mystery forum. It’s chilling to say the least. Read the comment first and then watch some of the documentary and you will see where I’m going. I’ve only scratched the surface and think there is much more to read, watch and *hear.

Gary has many times stated he thought his brother killed all the women and that there could be as many as 30 women and very adamant that it was his brother all along. Detectives have approached Gary to try to get him to convince his brother (Larry) to confess who has, but then Larry recanted his confessions each time eluding a conviction. I wonder why he recants? Is it because he had someone else with him and thinks it’s unfair he gets all the credit? IDK, seems really odd to me considering all the stuff he’s said over the years regardless. The good part is that he is still in jail - the bad part is that there is no clue to where a lot of these women are, or if there’s an accomplice running around with a home or residence in Wabash, IN or possibly another Civil War buddy. The information regarding all these women going missing in Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and across the US is slowly getting tracked back to Hall and his Civil War reenactment sites. What if there was an accomplice and they’re still out there or just now decided to become active again, but without Larry and by themselves? At one point I read about a murder involving three women who were all abducted together. I can’t imagine one man did that by himself, thus requiring the help of an accomplice possibly which is also being blamed on no other than Larry Hall himself of course. I find that odd.

The following links will help you on your journey.

Here’s the story about Jimmy Keene who went into prison for trafficking drugs. He was asked to go undercover and befriend Larry Hall in finding out where the bodies of several women ended up. He does, but ends up blowing his cover on purpose telling the serial killer that he thinks he’s a disgusting person, etc. I think in one of these books, one of these interviews we can find out who the accomplice is. Maybe there are dates, events (Civil War), etc., that link other murders to someone else still on the outside? Maybe the one you and I are both thinking of at this point? Maybe take the “Down the Hill” audio and compare it to the other person in this Documentary? I’m trying to not be too specific here. Take care.

CNN Documentary
https://youtu.be/mQjYonis8FE

Some good background on other stuff in the case. You will notice some interesting things as you read. This is a comment regarding a book interview, someone who talked to the female LE person, brother, Larry, etc.

Look at Comments after main part of story by “Sharon Hauf 3/10/15” - It’s the first set of comments in the story, not the second set.

http://unsolved.com/archives/angela-hammond

 

[dyannaON]

Holy Moly thread #30. Seems like we aren't much further then when our girls were first found. It's crazy to think we have a voice and a picture plus who else knows what and NO arrests. Really hoping there is some justice for Abby and Libby soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chocolope]

I believe our next biggest clue will be LE releasing cause of deaths. They've understandably withheld this information for a significant amount of time, and I think that's because it's extremely telling in every case -- but particularly this one.

What I'm looking for there is the method, as it tells us a lot about the killer(s). But more importantly, I'm looking for whether both girls were killed in the same exact way. If not, I'd consider that a significant twist in the investigation, and one that could support a 2+ killer theory.

For example, if both girls were strangled in the same fashion and e.g., half an hour apart, perhaps a single (serial) killer committed the crimes and this is his modus operandi. The preparation and consistency would lead investigators to believe this was a serial killer as they often develop these kinds of routines and patterns. Autopsy reports would be able to confirm whether the bruise marks (e.g., size of hand, amount of pressure) were consistent or not, which would provide clues about a single vs. multiple killers.

On the other hand if COD is even slightly different -- for example a stabbing vs. slashed throat -- it could be that multiple killers were involved. It could also be the case that something went wrong, forcing the killer(s) to deviate from a "routine." If the COD are different, this also may provide a clue about whether one of the victims was the intended target, while the other was just an obstacle. An example of this would be if Victim A was executed by gunshot (quickly, early on) while the Victim B was strangled later (more "intimate"). Investigators would likely suspect that Victim B had been specifically targeted.

This targeting vs. random information is extremely valuable because it cuts the suspect pool and relevant evidence pool *drastically*. If detectives are able to make a determination that Victim B was specifically targeted, not Victim A, the suspect pool has been effectively narrowed to individuals within Victim B's network (friends, people who visited social media, those who live near them, etc.). Making any connection between the killer and victim is basically a prerequisite to solving the crime.

It's important to keep in mind why LE cannot release this information without possibly compromising the case. Consider a hypothetical scenario in which BG is found and interrogated. He matches the photo, voice, and perfectly describes the death of one victim, but gives a wildly inaccurate description of the second victim's murder, claiming to have done both. If these details had never been made public, LE can make the determination that multiple killers are involved, and one or more remain on the loose.

 

[Yvettea]

I agree, he doesn't look like the type to be on a bicycle, but who knows...the problem is that he's just so generic looking, he could be anyone.

It's just that from the beginning I've "seen" a younger guy, maybe 25. Then when someone did the side-by-side with the PO I thought he could be even younger.

Maybe we should consider someone closer to the girl's age who knew they were there that day. He sure looked comfortable walking on that "bridge" like Someone who comes there a lot.

And remember police were looking for someone w/o a vehicle, a hitchhiker.