"An American Murder Mystery" - Discovery ID 3 night series - 04.09 .- 11. 2017

[PositiveLight]

BBM


I've got a few questions for those of you who believe xanax/drugging were responsible for Caylee's death, or that the trunk was a babysitter, and then I promise I will leave it alone... After (painstakingly) going through all of fca's communications, and there were a ton (if the girl was awake she was active on one source or another), sleuthers were able to line up all her conversations (instant messages, texts, social media sites, etc) with her pings, her friends devices, photos, comments made by ca's co-workers, etc, etc, etc, and after putting all these together a very clear picture was painted of the days and weeks leading up to, and after, the murder...There are individual threads dedicated to this, including ones that broke down each day, it's quite fascinating really. A lot of theories I had early on were busted by these communications.... I don't see anything that makes me believe fca used drugs as a substitute for a babysitter or that Caylee's death was related to an accidental drugging... Caylee's whereabouts were usually accounted for, and she was with fca or ca & ga... Most of the time it was with fca. Ca didn't watch her as much as she led on to either and when she did watch her she demanded fca be home early, or as soon as her phony shift ended. She never allowed fca to go out socially or come and go like she said at trial... All lies. Point being, she was usually at home with fca (according to her communications)... I believe her death was 1st degree murder, the reason being is that fca wanted to be free from motherhood and free of ca's control.... What do you see differently in the evidence that leads you to believe it was related to drugs or an accident related to drugs? And if that's your theory, what do you think the fool-proof suffocation search was about?... I'm totally not being snarky, I'm curious... I don't put drugging past fca, not at all, I don't put anything past her, it's just that the evidence led me to think it was something else...

All jmo.

The computer searches for one thing. I never believed that Cindy searched for that recipe.
Didn't GA say that Caylee would sleep for very extended periods of time too? It's the times when she was with Casey that would concern me. How did Caylee act during those times after being alone with her mother. Was this usually when she would sleep for long periods of time? Did she seem fearful of Casey and clingy to Cindy and George?
We will probably never know the truth but I wish we did. For Caylee's sake Casey needs to tell the full truth. Double jeopardy would protect her.
JMO though. How do you think she did it?

 

[Bgh]

Here's the thing... the jury did NOT have to
give her the Death Penalty if they wanted to simply give her LWOP. They could have also convicted her on the lesser charges (not First Degree Murder) and given her 30-plus years

In my opinion, the Death Penalty being on the table was obsolete. There were other options. The Anthony's did everything they could to make sure Casey walked... period. The jury members were cowards and didn't give one flying <insert self inflicted modslip> about this case at all. I clearly remember their stupid complaints about DVD's they could and could not have... what desserts they would have for the evening, etc... Seriously???

Yes, there were other options, but no one knew in advance what the verdict and penalty would be. If the Anthonys had not lied to cover for her, she may have been found guilty of 1st degree murder. Not likely, with the sexual abuse allegations, but possible. Also possible they didn't want her to be convicted of anything, but more likely they wanted her to be convicted of something. They knew she was guilty, and if she got off, she would again become an albatross around their necks (instead, her legal team has been supporting her since the trial). Just sayin'. Totally agree with you about the dimwit jury!

 

[RANCH]

These are reasons I don't understand why jury's by peers are allowed. People who may not understand the law or simply don't care about it...

I like the idea of a professional jury. A professional jury can still be considered as being a jury of peers. A jury of peers is not based on their knowledge of the law.

jury of one's peers
n. a guaranteed right of criminal defendants, in which "peer" means an "equal." This has been interpreted by courts to mean that the available jurors include a broad spectrum of the population, particularly of race, national origin and gender. Jury selection may include no process which excludes those of a particular race or intentionally narrows the spectrum of possible jurors. It does not mean that women are to be tried by women, Asians by Asians, or African Americans by African Americans.

Jury selection would be the same as now just the pool of prospective jurors would come from a bank of professional ones and not random people drawn from voter registration and drivers license data. JMO

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1079

 

[StretchWest]

I'll see if I can answer some of this a little bit, I quoted your original post but don't know how to break it into sections, so I'm going to copy/paste here, your questions in quotes and italics, my answers below in bold:

"I think CA passed out from partying and only realized too late that her baby girl was left all night and possibly a day in the trunk due to intoxication or being on drugs. When she realized it she had to think up something quick. That's when she stopped living at home."
Remember that George had seen Casey and Caylee leave the house together around noon/1pm on the Monday after Father's Day, and by that afternoon,
Casey was on video with Tony at the Blockbuster. Also, her cell phone shows a massive flurry of activity just before 4pm, unanswered calls to both George and Cindy. It was some time during these couple of hours or so that the baby died. So Casey wasn't passed out from partying and she most certainly didn't do it by accident. I'll never be convinced it was anything other than a rage induced pre meditated murder

So this brings up the timeline of June 16th, which I feel like is the most important evidence for both sides because its a bit of Rorschach test depending on your point of view:

• 12:50 p.m. According to George Anthony, Caylee departed with Casey by car around 12:50 p.m. with backpacks on their shoulders. (Note: Although George testified that Casey and Caylee left the house at 12:50, there is further computer activity on the home computer associated with Casey's account and her cell phone pings do not leave the area of the Anthony family home until 4:11 pm.)
• 1:39 p.m. Activity associated with Casey's AIM, MySpace, and Facebook accounts at 1:39 p.m. on the home computer. The last browser activity during that session is at 1:42 p.m.
• 1:44 p.m. Casey calls friend Amy Huizenga.
• 2:21 p.m. Call with Amy Huizenga ends.
• 2:30 p.m. George Anthony testified that he left the home at this time to go to work.
• 2:49 p.m. Casey Anthony's cellphone connects with a tower nearest to the home, and the Anthony family's desktop computer is activated by someone using a password-protected account Casey Anthony used.
• 2:51 p.m. A Google search is made for the term "fool-proof suffocation," misspelling the last word as "suffication". The user clicks on an article criticizing pro-suicide websites that promote "foolproof" ways to die.
• 2:52 p.m. Activity on MySpace.
• 2:52 p.m. Casey answers phone call from Jesse Grund. He describes this conversation as "abnormal", where Casey stated to him that her parents were divorcing and she had to find a new place to live.
• 3:04 p.m. Casey disconnected the phone call from Jesse Grund to take an incoming call from George Anthony. According to the defense, the 26-second call from her father took place as soon as he got to work to tell her "I took care of everything," telling her he disposed of the body and warning her not to tell her mother about the child's death.
• 3:34 p.m. Casey made a phone call to her boyfriend, Tony Lazarro. Unanswered.
• Between 4:10 and 4:14 p.m. Casey made six unanswered phone calls to her mother.

So, George wasn't telling the truth or remembered incorrectly when he said Casey/Caylee left at 12:50. Casey was on the home computer after he said they left and had a long conversation with Amy minutes later which Amy described as normal. Depending on which side your on this either a big deal or a little deal regarding George. Also, there's a clear change in Casey's demeanor from the end of the Amy call at 2:20 to 12:50 when she starts acting erratically or abnormal. Which makes me wonder if whatever happen occurred sometime between 2:20 and 2:50 to explain Casey's change in demeanor. Once again, all open to interpretation since there are no clear answers.

 

[PositiveLight]

So this brings up the timeline of June 16th, which I feel like is the most important evidence for both sides because its a bit of Rorschach test depending on your point of view:

• 12:50 p.m. According to George Anthony, Caylee departed with Casey by car around 12:50 p.m. with backpacks on their shoulders. (Note: Although George testified that Casey and Caylee left the house at 12:50, there is further computer activity on the home computer associated with Casey's account and her cell phone pings do not leave the area of the Anthony family home until 4:11 pm.)
• 1:39 p.m. Activity associated with Casey's AIM, MySpace, and Facebook accounts at 1:39 p.m. on the home computer. The last browser activity during that session is at 1:42 p.m.
• 1:44 p.m. Casey calls friend Amy Huizenga.
• 2:21 p.m. Call with Amy Huizenga ends.
• 2:30 p.m. George Anthony testified that he left the home at this time to go to work.
• 2:49 p.m. Casey Anthony's cellphone connects with a tower nearest to the home, and the Anthony family's desktop computer is activated by someone using a password-protected account Casey Anthony used.
• 2:51 p.m. A Google search is made for the term "fool-proof suffocation," misspelling the last word as "suffication". The user clicks on an article criticizing pro-suicide websites that promote "foolproof" ways to die.
• 2:52 p.m. Activity on MySpace.
• 2:52 p.m. Casey answers phone call from Jesse Grund. He describes this conversation as "abnormal", where Casey stated to him that her parents were divorcing and she had to find a new place to live.
• 3:04 p.m. Casey disconnected the phone call from Jesse Grund to take an incoming call from George Anthony. According to the defense, the 26-second call from her father took place as soon as he got to work to tell her "I took care of everything," telling her he disposed of the body and warning her not to tell her mother about the child's death.
• 3:34 p.m. Casey made a phone call to her boyfriend, Tony Lazarro. Unanswered.
• Between 4:10 and 4:14 p.m. Casey made six unanswered phone calls to her mother.

So, George wasn't telling the truth or remembered incorrectly when he said Casey/Caylee left at 12:50. Casey was on the home computer after he said they left and had a long conversation with Amy minutes later which Amy described as normal. Depending on which side your on this either a big deal or a little deal regarding George. Also, there's a clear change in Casey's demeanor from the end of the Amy call at 2:20 to 12:50 when she starts acting erratically or abnormal. Which makes me wonder if whatever happen occurred sometime between 2:20 and 2:50 to explain Casey's change in demeanor. Once again, all open to interpretation since there are no clear answers.

Thank you for the timeline!:tyou:
I honestly don't believe anything that comes out of any of the Anthony's mouths. The hard data like call times and computer activity times and her friends accounts are the only thing that I would trust personally. Any idea of where GA phone pinged when he placed the call to supposedly say he took care of everything?

 

[Tulessa]

Did anyone watch Dr. Oz today? I switched to it at 5 til, and the title was*Casey Anthony interview*. I could kick myself. I always watch him on Tuesday, because it's true crime Tuesdays.

 

[Intermezzo]

Wait, I really should have revised that, about how long she drove with the baby in the trunk. I didn't mean the baby was in the trunk for 5 days, just that the smell was so bad after 5 days that she had to dump the car. I think we all concluded at the time that Casey dumped the trashbags with Caylee in them in the swamp after about 2 days. Does anyone else recall that? A day and a half? I can't remember now.

That's about right. I think the discussion was 1-3 days and most agreed it was 2 days.

 

[Intermezzo]

Here's the thing... the jury did NOT have to give her the Death Penalty if they wanted to simply give her LWOP. They could have also convicted her on the lesser charges (not First Degree Murder) and given her 30-plus years.

In my opinion, the Death Penalty being on the table was obsolete. There were other options. The Anthony's did everything they could to make sure Casey walked... period. The jury members were cowards and didn't give one flying <insert self inflicted modslip> about this case at all. I clearly remember their stupid complaints about DVD's they could and could not have... what desserts they would have for the evening, etc... Seriously???

BBM
So true.

 

[Intermezzo]

Hi guys! I feel a bit like an interloper since I didn't follow the case and trial with y'all. At the time I followed bits and snatches only, yet I too was shocked at the verdict. I've read every single post in this thread and I can see how Caylee's case affected so many of you here. I feel for you as I have a few similar cases where I too have difficulty letting go and moving on... Lonzie Barton is one and in that case both main players actually went to jail. Still, IMO their sentences weren't enough. Delano Wilson - the father was found not guilty despite overwhelming evidence, including video, that he lied through his teeth about his newborn's disappearance.

Anyway, coming in late I'm sure some of my comments will sound naive but well, like y'all, I have to spit them out...

First off, IMO the default emotion of any parent or grandparent finding a precious child/grandchild floating in a pool is 100% not to immediately accept that oops! the child is beyond help and therefore it's best to conceal their body - like trash, undeserving of a proper burial, in some remote swamp. Seriously, what loving parent or grandparent would choose to do so? The most logical reaction is DENIAL that they are dead and cannot be revived. And certainly you call 911. Because there's always the chance that they can be brought back - we've all read those stories. It takes time to process that a loved one is truly dead.

I do think that understanding some of the forensics, such as the gas chromatography of decomp and the decomposition hair bands would have been difficult for even a more sophisticated panel than that of the jury. Sometimes groundbreaking science can seem like voodoo without enough compelling evidence derived through the scientific method. In fairness, both methods are still controversial.

Still, I feel like the jury dismissed the evidence out of hand, kind of like DNA analysis in the past. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it has no merit. And at the same time the jury apparently accepted Dr. Spitz's ridiculous assertion that the duct tape was placed on Caylee's face in order to move her skull. Really? Why? What possible reason would there be to place duct tape over a child's nose and mouth if not prevent the child from breathing? Why would the jury choose to ignore what may have possibly been the most incriminating bit of evidence in the whole case?

Ugh, I have more but certainly not anything that all of you here who followed the case closely haven't already discussed. I guess I'm mostly angry - at the jury, at CA, at her parents... Personally I'm leaning more and more towards thinking that it may be time to consider professional jurors. I dunno.

Anyway, I just wanted to rant a bit and also to give a nod to those of you who stood by and through this awful trial for little Caylee's sake. It's one of the reasons I'm a member here.

:welcome6:

 

[Intermezzo]

That entire story was a baldfaced lie so I don't think Cindy threw her arms around Casey and told her that she'll be a great mother and I don't think Casey went to her and told her that she was pregnant.

It figures that this dumb story came from someone who allegedly told Casey on numerous occasions that "even though Caylee was the best mistake she ever made, Caylee was still a mistake."

Cindy likes to pretend that her demon spawn loves her so she often makes very little sense.

BBM
I agree

 

[Intermezzo]

For me, it's because there seemed to be a lot of social chit/chit going on back in the day about Xanax (can't remember the details, thought it was mentioned in Casey's emails or something), the dark circles under Caylee's eyes, Zanny the Nanny, the chloroform search, and her party lifestyle. Where was Caylee if she wasn't with CA, and FCA was out partying? But I'm not privy to all the info you mentioned, so you could be 100% correct. I flip-flop back and forth between 1st degree murder and 2nd degree or aggravated manslaughter. Then there are the neck-breaking and foolproof suffocation searches. You're probably right. Is it true the prosecution didn't have the suffocation search at the time of the trial?

The Zanax theory came from "Zanny the Nanny" since Zanny was the slang term/street name for Zanax and Yes in one text or IM'ing she told that person (I think, Jesse Grund) that she could get Zanax from another friend for him. He refused it.

I don't think FCA was out partying as much before Caylee was murdered. I think she was trying to get out more but was being reined in by Cindy the months leading up to June 16.
The partying went into full swing once Caylee was gone

JMO

 

[Intermezzo]

The computer searches for one thing. I never believed that Cindy searched for that recipe.
Didn't GA say that Caylee would sleep for very extended periods of time too? It's the times when she was with Casey that would concern me. How did Caylee act during those times after being alone with her mother. Was this usually when she would sleep for long periods of time? Did she seem fearful of Casey and clingy to Cindy and George?
We will probably never know the truth but I wish we did. For Caylee's sake Casey needs to tell the full truth. Double jeopardy would protect her.
JMO though. How do you think she did it?

BBM I agree
The Prosecution questioned Cindy about the computer searches because she was not at home but at work when the searches were conducted.
I believe they even had witnesses and evidence from Cindy's work.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/23/florida.casey.anthony.trial/

In a testy cross-examination, prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick noted that Cindy Anthony's work schedule showed she was working the days the searches were conducted, March 17 and 21, 2008. The witness said it was possible she could have been home, saying she went home early a couple of days that week.
"Were you or weren't you?" Burdick asked.
"The only thing that triggers that day for me is those computer entries," Cindy Anthony told the Orlando courtroom. "It was not a traumatic day for me like the last three years, so I can't tell you what time I went home."

 

[Intermezzo]

Thank you for the timeline!:tyou:
I honestly don't believe anything that comes out of any of the Anthony's mouths. The hard data like call times and computer activity times and her friends accounts are the only thing that I would trust personally. Any idea of where GA phone pinged when he placed the call to supposedly say he took care of everything?

BBM Totally agree!
GA called from work, not from a cellphone

 

[Intermezzo]

Did anyone watch Dr. Oz today? I switched to it at 5 til, and the title was*Casey Anthony interview*. I could kick myself. I always watch him on Tuesday, because it's true crime Tuesdays.

I thought today's show was about Heroine addiction

 

[StretchWest]

Thank you for the timeline!:tyou:
I honestly don't believe anything that comes out of any of the Anthony's mouths. The hard data like call times and computer activity times and her friends accounts are the only thing that I would trust personally. Any idea of where GA phone pinged when he placed the call to supposedly say he took care of everything?

I haven't seen anything about the ping for that call, but I think it's assumed he was at work by 3pm. iirc it's only about 10 minutes from the Anthony home to where George worked at the time, so there could be some wiggle room in that 2:30 departure time.

 

[heidisams]

The computer searches for one thing. I never believed that Cindy searched for that recipe.
Didn't GA say that Caylee would sleep for very extended periods of time too? It's the times when she was with Casey that would concern me. How did Caylee act during those times after being alone with her mother. Was this usually when she would sleep for long periods of time? Did she seem fearful of Casey and clingy to Cindy and George?
We will probably never know the truth but I wish we did. For Caylee's sake Casey needs to tell the full truth. Double jeopardy would protect her.
JMO though. How do you think she did it?

BBM

Have you by any chance seen the home video of Caylee's 2nd b-day party? I always thought it was really telling, and quite bizarre... it was a huge party with mostly adults (seemed to be all fca's friends, & plenty of males), and Caylee sort of wanders around staring at people like she had no idea who on earth they were. It was like she was trying to find a familiar face, and it was ga & ca she would search out for comfort, not fca, who was also sitting right there. She just wandered right past her like she was nobody. And again, when this guy sings to Caylee and it weirds her out she runs to ca, not fca. Ca is the one who adjusts her shoes and holds her in her lap, and ga is the one who picks her up when he recognizes her discomfort. Never fca. Someone who didn't know better would never guess fca was the mom... This is also the party where some of fca's friends told investigators how uncomfortable it was when Caylee was opening her presents because ca took the lead and it was obvious to them that fca was angry at her mom. Actually, fca told one of them she was angry with her mom... The video is haunting, knowing what we know now. And it's a party for Caylee, with no kids, and it's a bunch of strangers who her mother chose to invite... more like a party for fca... Very weird.

Something I wanted to add, I think this video demonstrates what a lot of us have assumed about the family dynamic. Ga and ca were mom and dad to Caylee, fca had little to do with her UNLESS she was in public and around her friends, where she PRETENDS to be this great outstanding mom who adores her kid... That's probably why she was so mad, Caylee chose ga & ca over her, their presence was ruining her "show"

All jmo.

 

[Tssiemer]

I could see FCA killing Caylee as punishment to her parents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tulessa]

I thought today's show was about Heroine addiction

Nope, and it stated that it was new.

 

[heidisams]

So this brings up the timeline of June 16th, which I feel like is the most important evidence for both sides because its a bit of Rorschach test depending on your point of view:

• 12:50 p.m. According to George Anthony, Caylee departed with Casey by car around 12:50 p.m. with backpacks on their shoulders. (Note: Although George testified that Casey and Caylee left the house at 12:50, there is further computer activity on the home computer associated with Casey's account and her cell phone pings do not leave the area of the Anthony family home until 4:11 pm.)
• 1:39 p.m. Activity associated with Casey's AIM, MySpace, and Facebook accounts at 1:39 p.m. on the home computer. The last browser activity during that session is at 1:42 p.m.
• 1:44 p.m. Casey calls friend Amy Huizenga.
• 2:21 p.m. Call with Amy Huizenga ends.
• 2:30 p.m. George Anthony testified that he left the home at this time to go to work.
• 2:49 p.m. Casey Anthony's cellphone connects with a tower nearest to the home, and the Anthony family's desktop computer is activated by someone using a password-protected account Casey Anthony used.
• 2:51 p.m. A Google search is made for the term "fool-proof suffocation," misspelling the last word as "suffication". The user clicks on an article criticizing pro-suicide websites that promote "foolproof" ways to die.
• 2:52 p.m. Activity on MySpace.
• 2:52 p.m. Casey answers phone call from Jesse Grund. He describes this conversation as "abnormal", where Casey stated to him that her parents were divorcing and she had to find a new place to live.
• 3:04 p.m. Casey disconnected the phone call from Jesse Grund to take an incoming call from George Anthony. According to the defense, the 26-second call from her father took place as soon as he got to work to tell her "I took care of everything," telling her he disposed of the body and warning her not to tell her mother about the child's death.
• 3:34 p.m. Casey made a phone call to her boyfriend, Tony Lazarro. Unanswered.
• Between 4:10 and 4:14 p.m. Casey made six unanswered phone calls to her mother.

So, George wasn't telling the truth or remembered incorrectly when he said Casey/Caylee left at 12:50. Casey was on the home computer after he said they left and had a long conversation with Amy minutes later which Amy described as normal. Depending on which side your on this either a big deal or a little deal regarding George. Also, there's a clear change in Casey's demeanor from the end of the Amy call at 2:20 to 12:50 when she starts acting erratically or abnormal. Which makes me wonder if whatever happen occurred sometime between 2:20 and 2:50 to explain Casey's change in demeanor. Once again, all open to interpretation since there are no clear answers.

BBM

Here's my problem with the time frame being between 2:20p and 2:50p (at least according to the theory I have), it makes the fool-proof suffocation less significant (2:51p).. If the crime has been done (or accident, if that's your theory) by 2:51p, then why did she do the search for fool-proof suffocation? And remember she was found with duct tape. And some would argue, her erratic behavior comes after the 2:51p search, where she goes off line for a period of time (about an hour), then pops up again as she leaves her parents house, then off again and this time she does something the girl rarely ever does, she actually shuts her phone off for almost 2 hours or so before she reappears. And shortly after she reappears she's headed for Tony's, child free. It's date night and for the very first time she gets to spend the night. The whole night. That NEVER happens. And the next day, etc...With Caylee never being seen again. To me, her abnormal daily activities occurred after 2:51p... After seeing her normal patterns her day seemed like typical fca right up until the search... Everything after, totally unusual for the girl...

Ga clocked in at work at 3p that day so he wouldn't have been around when things went weird

All jmo.

 

[jkly]

BBM I agree
The Prosecution questioned Cindy about the computer searches because she was not at home but at work when the searches were conducted.
I believe they even had witnesses and evidence from Cindy's work.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/23/florida.casey.anthony.trial/

In a testy cross-examination, prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick noted that Cindy Anthony's work schedule showed she was working the days the searches were conducted, March 17 and 21, 2008. The witness said it was possible she could have been home, saying she went home early a couple of days that week.
"Were you or weren't you?" Burdick asked.
"The only thing that triggers that day for me is those computer entries," Cindy Anthony told the Orlando courtroom. "It was not a traumatic day for me like the last three years, so I can't tell you what time I went home."

Yeah, she's a huge liar. She even tried to claim work fudged her hours. So the prosecution during their rebuttal case brought her work in to explain that she could not log into her computer at work, then go home and make those searches. Her work computer would have automatically signed her off after 15 minutes of inactivity.

I hope you're proud of yourself Cindy. Oh and how's that reconciliation going with your demon spawn who despises you?