IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[Idareyato]

The girls are dead because he was able to murder them in an isolated area just North of the creek. There is no doubt that he had them under his control because if he failed at controlling the girls, they would not have been found lying dead next to each other.

Ever seen a video of a lion chasing down its prey? We don't know, Otto. I am airing an opinion the same way as others though it may be different, but it should not cause any injustice but to the killer. I spoke of a possibility and can leave it be, and put it there furthers to think about for clearing their own opinion. Agreed?

 

[otto]

Truthfully, we don't know that at all. That is your theory that others share as well. But at no time whatsoever has LE stated that BG acted alone, the girls were walked to where they were found, nor whether it was BG that actually murdered them.

The man in the photo has been identified by police as the suspect in the murder of the girls, so I'm going to accept that he actually murdered them.

 

[Evania]

How did he manage to murder the two of them near each other 50-60 feet from the creek if he had no control over them?

We should also remember that he had complete control of them where they were forced to go "down the hill" and there is nothing to suggest that the situation changed.

IMO, they would have to go down the hill even if they did decide to flee from him. From my understanding, the trail came to a dead end on the side he encountered them. If he had a gun, they likely could have switched into flight mode once they departed the bridge, and whether the creek was high or low, they had no choice but to flee through it. There was no other way back. Either way, they would have have ended up where they were ultimately located.

I have no idea if the above scenario is what actually transpired. I'm just trying to think of other plausible scenarios that may have taken place.

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[PoirotryInMotion]

Yes, they do have the phone then! I am completely floored. How can it be, that the killer did not notice the phone?? There is something very unsettling about it, besides the fact the girls were murdered of course.All IMO-Ninn

He knows what is on the phone and wanted it to be found (?) JMO

Hmmm, I'm thinking most killers wouldn't have voluntarily left such important evidence behind. My first guess would be that the phone wasn't noticed because it was in a pocket, recording, due to a victim's quick thinking. And...(this is hard to say), IF said article of clothing was discarded (with phone in pocket, OR with one of the victims intentionally hiding the phone in clothing in the process) and then found with an area search, the killer might have never even known of its existence. I believe that is why LE is giving so much praise--not only that one of the victims recorded the suspect, but that the killer never realized there was a phone doing any recording. I believe this crime was committed relatively quickly in that same area by someone familiar with the area, and I suspect the killer didn't spend a lot of time worrying about evidence left behind. (But to clarify, I still don't believe the property owner was the killer.)

 

[KyMom]

The fact is that no one heard anyone scream, so I think we can rule that out.

Yes, I know no one heard any screaming..my point was only that without being able to know they wouldn't or not being able to know if those people would come close to where he and the girls were, there may have been even less time for him, or he felt there was, instead of having until the time it took for the searchers to show up.

jmo

 

[cluciano63]

There have been dozens of cases where a body was not found even after multiple searches, though it was there all the time. I doubt very much that this killer moved two bodies to the location where they were found.

 

[Idareyato]

The man in the photo has been identified by police as the suspect in the murder of the girls, so I'm going to accept that he actually murdered them.

Here is an uncommon thought that crossed my mind. What if Libby handed the phone to Abby, and it was Abby that took the video. We can't say for sure who had possession of the camera when the cording began.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I suspect that the murderer is a practical man. Rather than murder or injure the girls on the bridge - which was certainly an option - he told them to go "down the hill". We know that the abduction started with him forcing the girls to walk to a secluded area. Practically, this meant that he didn't have to drag a 200 pound girl across the creek and half a mile along the creek bed. Why drag bodies when you can force them to walk to where you plan to murder them?

just a thought that your post sparked in my head....are we to assume he did not drag/move/remove/bring back/overkill /overexert himself since LE did not put down on their list of things to look for in a possible suspect as "someone who was exhausted/slept a lot" that evening/night/ following day (s) ? that would be very tiring work, would it not? 2 girls, in that terrain?

PS I enjoy the mental sparring with some of y'all, friends included.

 

[whiskers]

I think this has been discussed before, but one of the girls could have swiftly been murdered and the other taken a way for a while. Then he later returned and murdered her at the spot.

 

[tlcya]

#todayistheday

 

[otto]

IMO, they would have to go down the hill even if they did decide to flee from him. From my understanding, the trail came to a dead end on the side he encountered them. If he had a gun, they likely could have switched into flight mode once they departed the bridge, and whether the creek was high or low, they had no choice but to flee through it. There was no other way back. Either way, they would have have ended up where they were ultimately located.

I have no idea if the above scenario is what actually transpired. I'm just trying to think of other plausible scenarios that may have taken place.

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There is a house quite near the SE end of the bridge and if the children had an opportunity to flee, they could have run down the road to the house ... no crossing the creek. They could have run down the road in the opposite direction as well. The fact is that they were not found along the road in either direction, but across the creek and directly South of the cemetery where the terrain protects the suspect from being seen.

 

[Shiressleuth]

One thing we must consider is LE has stressed the importance of keeping evidence closed. One searcher or two found the bodies. If they are professional they kept it secret. At first Le stated 'By the way the bodies were found we suspect foul play'. Then they upgraded it to double-homicide. If perchance a resident or local discovered A and L, it is possible they may have disclosed information beyond the limit, and had to recant what was spoken. How rumors get started and why verification is impossible. Surely the ones that located L and A were told to keep their mouths shut, but we are all human. See my point about remaining opinionated? We can prove nothing ourselves without LE's approval.

I have an idea that the person who found the girls was the local volunteer who was also in the FBI, but I don't have a link so it will have to be moo. Can anyone else remember that? It could also explain why nothing has leaked if the volunteer was FBI. Do we know if any Lafayette volunteer FF helped in the search at all? JMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

There have been dozens of cases where a body was not found even after multiple searches, though it was there all the time. I doubt very much that this killer moved two bodies to the location where they were found.

Two bodies? When there is no foliage? See, I can understand missing a lone body but I doubt you would miss two of them near each other especially since they were located not far from existing paths and were easily seen in daylight.

Here is where the girls were almost certainly located. It comes from a video by Rich Van Wyk (RTV6) that shows where family were allowed to place flowers within the crime scene.

[video=twitter;833751458885537793]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/833751458885537793[/video]

I am pretty certain that I have located that same position from the view of the media photo that also shows RL's dog in it and a cameraman at the bottom of the hill.

 

[Lilowlet]

To Jethro Not to state the obvious, but there is a defo mini trail right there in the photos.

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[Shiressleuth]

Two bodies? When there is no foliage? See, I can understand missing a lone body but I doubt you would miss two of them near each other especially since they were located not far from existing paths and were easily seen in daylight.

Here is where the girls were almost certainly located. It comes from a video by Rich Van Wyk (RTV6) that shows where family were allowed to place flowers within the crime scene.

[video=twitter;833751458885537793]https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR/status/833751458885537793[/video]

I am pretty certain that I have located that same position from the view of the media photo that also shows RL's dog in it and a cameraman at the bottom of the hill.

And we have the link from Nin that says both sides of the creek were searched. So does that make us think the girls weren't there before midnight and were taken and killed elsewhere?

 

[DrOrchid]

It looks like a Members Only brand jacket.

 

[Idareyato]

There is a house quite near the SE end of the bridge and if the children had an opportunity to flee, they could have run down the road to the house ... no crossing the creek. They could have run down the road in the opposite direction as well. The fact is that they were not found along the road in either direction, but across the creek and directly South of the cemetery where the terrain protects the suspect from being seen.

It makes sense to me. He very well may have marched them across the creek, but a golden opportunity for them to run. They may have fled too late to use the road. Fear could easily keep them close, thinking he will let them go. Uncertainty on the outcome keeps them from running until too late. I cannot disregard your opinion. It was mine at the beginning, but it changed over time.

 

[MAVLEY]

IMO if there was no indication that the girls were hurt in any way and just lost in the woods, LE and searches would mainly be looking around and not necessarily at the ground. The search probably wasn't as thorough as it was on the 14th. I can just picture a line of people walking and yelling the girls names. If someone wasn't directly in the path of where the girls were left it would have been easily missed since it was a quick search with no suspicions.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Is there *ANY* possibility a separate thread can be created for discussion on the photos? I apologize for being rude, but I am sick of seeing attempted edits of this pic. They released the best image they had, which had likely been edited to start with in order to get the image they finally released.

A separate thread would allow lots of room for discussion on both the photo itself and whatever editing techniques are being attempted.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think this has been discussed before, but one of the girls could have swiftly been murdered and the other taken a way for a while. Then he later returned and murdered her at the spot.

I think that is possible.